WikiGOD: /* Transcript */

2022-04-04T02:08:14Z

Transcript

WikiGOD: Created page with "'''Nov 6, 2013 at 11:21 am'''
'''Conversations With Dwyer: Doug Mesner, Repressed Memories'''
''Doug Mesner returns to the show not to discuss the Satanic Panic but to have avery passionate conversation about the myths of repressed memory, the charlatans who profit from it and how it's ruined thousands of lives. He names names and invites them to lawyer up and come after him. Okay and we talk some Satan.''
https://shows.acast.com/mattdwyer_x/episodes/59ee1d67..."

2022-04-04T01:59:02Z

Created page with "'''Nov 6, 2013 at 11:21 am'''<br> '''Conversations With Dwyer: Doug Mesner, Repressed Memories'''<br> ''Doug Mesner returns to the show not to discuss the Satanic Panic but to have avery passionate conversation about the myths of repressed memory, the charlatans who profit from it and how it's ruined thousands of lives. He names names and invites them to lawyer up and come after him. Okay and we talk some Satan.''<br> https://shows.acast.com/mattdwyer_x/episodes/59ee1d67..."

Show changes

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:08, 4 April 2022
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	00:07:25 Matt Dwyer: It's not just limited to satanic though, right? Because there's when people are sexually abused, or wasn't it also a big thing with sexual abuse in general, where it's like, oh, I had repressed memories. And now I remember. Uncle Tommy fingered me, but it wasn't always true, correct?		00:07:25 Matt Dwyer: It's not just limited to satanic though, right? Because there's when people are sexually abused, or wasn't it also a big thing with sexual abuse in general, where it's like, oh, I had repressed memories. And now I remember. Uncle Tommy fingered me, but it wasn't always true, correct?

	00:07:45 Doug Misicko: Right. Well, that's when people are trying to debate with me about this, they tried to narrow the focus to just that they, they claim that the idea is simply that certain traumas prove so damaging, that the conscious mind can't hold on to them that represses them into this compartmentalized part of the mind, that can then break off into other personalities. That's the That's the theory behind behind multiple personality disorder, which is now called dissociative identity disorder. So they like to keep the argument just focused on this idea that trauma can be repressed in this way. And then it seems it's a more palatable argument for the masses, because this is an idea that's really entrenched in our culture. Everybody knows this idea of repressed trauma, this kind of Freudian idea that if you have some kind of melees, depression, anything like that, it could be routed back into some unrecognized trauma in your past that if you just acknowledge, you can have this kind of AB reaction assimilated into your, into your consciousness and thus be rid of it and be rid of the problems that co occur with that. Well, there's not good evidence for that. But nor is that really the argument i i Take on to begin with, because where this has gone, this idea of repressed trauma is that there's accurate recall, of these repressed traumas that can be brought forward either by hypnosis, sodium manatal, interviews, or whatever else, or art therapy, whatever, whatever causes these people to remember the trauma that they supposedly had. And since a lot of this can't be verified, a lot of past events can't be verified. The idea was also that if somebody says this is so it must be true, nobody's going to lie about being abused or anything else. Or if they or even if they did, it doesn't matter because this is what the client has given you to work. With and this is so you have to take it seriously. So it, it's kind of well intentioned in that way, but it doesn't really meet the reality of it. Because it's given a carte blanche to people to completely re narrate their our lives in ways that can be disproven, you know, then we get these ideas of satanic cults. The fam, you know, somebody's father, of course, was a satanic high priest and traumatizing them to this mind control program. And you get this whole conspiracy narrative of the satanic called underground, that initiating abuse tactics against children specifically to enact a certain type of mind control and split them into multiple personalities. But as you said, it's not only satanic cult abuse that comes up from this narrative, it's also alien abduction. And the alien abduction set, also uses the same standards of evidence to prove that their clients have been abducted by aliens, and they use these retrospective surveys. And the disturbing part is, is the alien abduction set is no different than these psychiatrist who are lauded within the field of dissociation studies. For their research, it's the same technique, they do these retro active surveys, a retrospective surveys, they have these clients who are already who already believe in these narratives. And then they simply give them a survey asking them about the finer points of these items. They quantify the similarities. And then they say, well, there must be something here, there's this certain consistency to this narrative. That couldn't be true, unless it were something were actually happening of this type, ignoring the fact that people generally know what the narrative is to begin with. And a lot of these psychiatrist who work in this kind of field are sharing this delusion with one another. And they do it with organizations like the international society. For the study of trauma and dissociation, the ~~ISS TD~~, they're actually this big, and in unjustifiably respected organization of people who study trauma and dissociation. And they spread delusion on the in the underground of this, you know, away from the cameras or whatever else, their last annual conference actually had a lecture on, on ritual abuse by a couple of very delusional discredited therapist, Ellen laughter and Valerie ~~senesin~~. I mean, these people are really over the top and they used a book to support their, their ritual abuse narrative, and the book was called 22 faces just by this crazed Mormon con woman who claimed that she was a she was a consultant for the Utah what was it district attorney's office or something like that? And turns out, you know, some of the people I, I conspire with we, we checked into this and it turned out she was completely lying. The Office got back to us and she had nothing to do with them. She was putting yourself out there as a therapist, she's unlicensed, he was on Dr. Phil I don't know more about that whole episode. Her book was supernatural and its narrative it's it's kind of a good case study to look at if you're trying to see what I'm talking about how they put these kinds of things out there as though just the surface of it will be that this is completely a story about a a psychiatric condition, you know about victimization through child abuse or whatever else. But then you look at the book, and it's about it has demonic possession in it. It has levitating satanist Senate, it more wall knotty, it has a Jewish Nazi mind controlling villain and it it's just the most absurd story you would ever read. And this, this book is being held out as evidence of a phenomenon at an ~~ISS TD~~ conference where people can get continuing education credits to go to this kind of fucking a.... it's just unbelievable. So there's kind of this counterculture, the sick, little counterculture within the within the mental health field. That would be funny. If it weren't for the fact that they're exploiting people who really do need help. I mean, think of the people come to these people for help. They need help you No, and they're getting delusion instead. And they're not getting better. And that's what really got me going on this because I had an idea of what was going on. I was investigating the idea of cults and Satanic Panic. Right? I wasn't I wasn't investigating repression, first. I was, I was hunting down this cult called ~~the process~~, so I started doing that.		00:07:45 Doug Misicko: Right. Well, that's when people are trying to debate with me about this, they tried to narrow the focus to just that they, they claim that the idea is simply that certain traumas prove so damaging, that the conscious mind can't hold on to them that represses them into this compartmentalized part of the mind, that can then break off into other personalities. That's the That's the theory behind behind multiple personality disorder, which is now called dissociative identity disorder. So they like to keep the argument just focused on this idea that trauma can be repressed in this way. And then it seems it's a more palatable argument for the masses, because this is an idea that's really entrenched in our culture. Everybody knows this idea of repressed trauma, this kind of Freudian idea that if you have some kind of melees, depression, anything like that, it could be routed back into some unrecognized trauma in your past that if you just acknowledge, you can have this kind of AB reaction assimilated into your, into your consciousness and thus be rid of it and be rid of the problems that co occur with that. Well, there's not good evidence for that. But nor is that really the argument i i Take on to begin with, because where this has gone, this idea of repressed trauma is that there's accurate recall, of these repressed traumas that can be brought forward either by hypnosis, sodium manatal, interviews, or whatever else, or art therapy, whatever, whatever causes these people to remember the trauma that they supposedly had. And since a lot of this can't be verified, a lot of past events can't be verified. The idea was also that if somebody says this is so it must be true, nobody's going to lie about being abused or anything else. Or if they or even if they did, it doesn't matter because this is what the client has given you to work. With and this is so you have to take it seriously. So it, it's kind of well intentioned in that way, but it doesn't really meet the reality of it. Because it's given a carte blanche to people to completely re narrate their our lives in ways that can be disproven, you know, then we get these ideas of satanic cults. The fam, you know, somebody's father, of course, was a satanic high priest and traumatizing them to this mind control program. And you get this whole conspiracy narrative of the satanic called underground, that initiating abuse tactics against children specifically to enact a certain type of mind control and split them into multiple personalities. But as you said, it's not only satanic cult abuse that comes up from this narrative, it's also alien abduction. And the alien abduction set, also uses the same standards of evidence to prove that their clients have been abducted by aliens, and they use these retrospective surveys. And the disturbing part is, is the alien abduction set is no different than these psychiatrist who are lauded within the field of dissociation studies. For their research, it's the same technique, they do these retro active surveys, a retrospective surveys, they have these clients who are already who already believe in these narratives. And then they simply give them a survey asking them about the finer points of these items. They quantify the similarities. And then they say, well, there must be something here, there's this certain consistency to this narrative. That couldn't be true, unless it were something were actually happening of this type, ignoring the fact that people generally know what the narrative is to begin with. And a lot of these psychiatrist who work in this kind of field are sharing this delusion with one another. And they do it with organizations like the international society. For the study of trauma and dissociation, the ISSTD, they're actually this big, and in unjustifiably respected organization of people who study trauma and dissociation. And they spread delusion on the in the underground of this, you know, away from the cameras or whatever else, their last annual conference actually had a lecture on, on ritual abuse by a couple of very delusional discredited therapist, Ellen laughter and Valerie Senesin. I mean, these people are really over the top and they used a book to support their, their ritual abuse narrative, and the book was called 22 faces just by this crazed Mormon con woman who claimed that she was a she was a consultant for the Utah what was it district attorney's office or something like that? And turns out, you know, some of the people I, I conspire with we, we checked into this and it turned out she was completely lying. The Office got back to us and she had nothing to do with them. She was putting yourself out there as a therapist, she's unlicensed, he was on Dr. Phil I don't know more about that whole episode. Her book was supernatural and its narrative it's it's kind of a good case study to look at if you're trying to see what I'm talking about how they put these kinds of things out there as though just the surface of it will be that this is completely a story about a a psychiatric condition, you know about victimization through child abuse or whatever else. But then you look at the book, and it's about it has demonic possession in it. It has levitating satanist Senate, it more wall knotty, it has a Jewish Nazi mind controlling villain and it it's just the most absurd story you would ever read. And this, this book is being held out as evidence of a phenomenon at an ISSTD conference where people can get continuing education credits to go to this kind of fucking a.... it's just unbelievable. So there's kind of this counterculture, the sick, little counterculture within the within the mental health field. That would be funny. If it weren't for the fact that they're exploiting people who really do need help. I mean, think of the people come to these people for help. They need help you No, and they're getting delusion instead. And they're not getting better. And that's what really got me going on this because I had an idea of what was going on. I was investigating the idea of cults and Satanic Panic. Right? I wasn't I wasn't investigating repression, first. I was, I was hunting down this cult called The Process, so I started doing that.

	00:15:23 Matt Dwyer: I know a lot of people who did the process.		00:15:23 Matt Dwyer: I know a lot of people who did the process.

	00:15:27 Doug Misicko: well, and then I went to a, a ~~smart~~ conference. So SMART is an acronym for this organization. And it stands for stop mind control and ritual abuse today. And I go to this conference. And you know, I thought, I don't know, I don't know what I thought, you know, it was supposed to be about mind control and ritual abuse. So that sounds interesting. Go check it out. But you go there. And you see these people were actually licensed therapists talking the most crass delusions you could possibly think of. And I got there and they were actually selling, they're actually selling electromagnetic beam blocking hats. That's, you know, that's standard, muttering, delusional St. Vagrant kind of stuff, you know.		00:15:27 Doug Misicko: well, and then I went to a, a SMART conference. So SMART is an acronym for this organization. And it stands for stop mind control and ritual abuse today. And I go to this conference. And you know, I thought, I don't know, I don't know what I thought, you know, it was supposed to be about mind control and ritual abuse. So that sounds interesting. Go check it out. But you go there. And you see these people were actually licensed therapists talking the most crass delusions you could possibly think of. And I got there and they were actually selling, they're actually selling electromagnetic beam blocking hats. That's, you know, that's standard, muttering, delusional St. Vagrant kind of stuff, you know.

	00:16:18 Matt Dwyer: What is that supposed to do? Keep...		00:16:18 Matt Dwyer: What is that supposed to do? Keep...
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	00:36:57 Matt Dwyer: Now does this science community or whatever the how do they allow? How is this allowed to keep happening? Like, shouldn't they be like, This is not a legit thing. People can't pedal this bullshit, like, how is it being allowed to continue?		00:36:57 Matt Dwyer: Now does this science community or whatever the how do they allow? How is this allowed to keep happening? Like, shouldn't they be like, This is not a legit thing. People can't pedal this bullshit, like, how is it being allowed to continue?

	00:37:16 Doug Misicko: Well, you know, there are some good people fight the good fight. But there's also a lot of weak kneed approach to this. It's kind of the norm you know, I I think sometimes I'm looked upon is pretty low brow because I do make the alien abduction parallel and the in the past life regression parallel. And you know, that's often considered bizarre and in just kind of a lowbrow place to go and I don't understand that it the the thing is professionals within the ~~ISS TD~~ and that kind of thing. They're kind of been allowed to control the narrative, they've been allowed to control the argument. And so they they strip it down to the the idea that we're just arguing whether people can repress trauma or not. And that's really not the whole argument here. I mean, if we were to get a real solid case study that showed somebody was sexually abused, and they completely repressed these the the episodes in this neat kind of redaction they've got going on in their mind. It wouldn't do anything to help us prove that alien abduction is real, that the satanic call conspiracy has ever existed. And I just feel like we can see too much to these people. We can see too much to these people. When when we say well, but I'm not a Satanist. You know, which I I stopped doing, you know, like, What do you mean, when you say Satanist? You know, the satanists they're talking about never existed? You know? I just feel like we owe these people nothing. And they get everything because they claim that they were victims when I'm convinced that most of them were not ever.		00:37:16 Doug Misicko: Well, you know, there are some good people fight the good fight. But there's also a lot of weak kneed approach to this. It's kind of the norm you know, I I think sometimes I'm looked upon is pretty low brow because I do make the alien abduction parallel and the in the past life regression parallel. And you know, that's often considered bizarre and in just kind of a lowbrow place to go and I don't understand that it the the thing is professionals within the ISSTD and that kind of thing. They're kind of been allowed to control the narrative, they've been allowed to control the argument. And so they they strip it down to the the idea that we're just arguing whether people can repress trauma or not. And that's really not the whole argument here. I mean, if we were to get a real solid case study that showed somebody was sexually abused, and they completely repressed these the the episodes in this neat kind of redaction they've got going on in their mind. It wouldn't do anything to help us prove that alien abduction is real, that the satanic call conspiracy has ever existed. And I just feel like we can see too much to these people. We can see too much to these people. When when we say well, but I'm not a Satanist. You know, which I I stopped doing, you know, like, What do you mean, when you say Satanist? You know, the satanists they're talking about never existed? You know? I just feel like we owe these people nothing. And they get everything because they claim that they were victims when I'm convinced that most of them were not ever.

	00:39:02 Matt Dwyer: I mean, isn't it if this theory of repressed memory and trauma blah, blah, blah, would like wouldn't dude's forget they were in Vietnam. He wouldn't they just be like, Oh, no, I was out baking. Like, is it?		00:39:02 Matt Dwyer: I mean, isn't it if this theory of repressed memory and trauma blah, blah, blah, would like wouldn't dude's forget they were in Vietnam. He wouldn't they just be like, Oh, no, I was out baking. Like, is it?
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	01:11:19 Matt Dwyer: That's pretty great.		01:11:19 Matt Dwyer: That's pretty great.

	01:11:21 Doug Misicko: Thank you, Matt. If you ever if you're ever so inclined, see if you can get a get a little toad like Richard Kluft from the ~~ISS TD~~ and one of the primary advocates for dissociative amnesia to come on and debate me. I tried to talk to these people and they won't talk to me so....		01:11:21 Doug Misicko: Thank you, Matt. If you ever if you're ever so inclined, see if you can get a get a little toad like Richard Kluft from the ISSTD and one of the primary advocates for dissociative amnesia to come on and debate me. I tried to talk to these people and they won't talk to me so....

	01:11:44 Matt Dwyer: That would be great. Thank you for listening to conversations with Dwyer, please peruse the feral audio page, check out their other shows. Listen to them. You're beautiful people.		01:11:44 Matt Dwyer: That would be great. Thank you for listening to conversations with Dwyer, please peruse the feral audio page, check out their other shows. Listen to them. You're beautiful people.

	01:12:42 [Outro]		01:12:42 [Outro]

Podcasts/CwD-DougMesner-RepressedMemories - Revision history

WikiGOD: /* Transcript */