Podcasts/Sacred Tension-House of the Devil bvzpq

House_of_the_Devil_bvzpq SUMMARY KEYWORDS movie, people, film, satanic panic, pizza, fun, ty, listened, feel, talking, cabin fever, horror, thinking, tom noonan, satanists, satanic, devil, house, mike flanagan, evil SPEAKERS Will, Stephen Bradford Long, Joe

00:00 You're listening to a rock candy podcast. Hi, I'm Peterson Toscano I host bubblin squeak here in the rock candy network I tell personal revealing story whispered Did you just masturbate? Because I felt a terrible presence of evil enter the I make prank phone calls to the past I'm Eliza heimbach breaking down into the future because my boyfriend and I are just not having enough sex all the problems he just have to listen to it's too hard to describe check out bubble and squeak wherever you listen to podcasts

01:02 so how are you all holding up? i Let's just jump in. I don't know. I don't have any planned introduction. So let's welcome to them to the podcast at some point but how...

Joe 01:12 You will find that this we did a crossover with your your your friend Matt. Yeah, yeah. And he was very surprised to find that. We have zero plan. Yes. This is so thrown together every episode.

Stephen Bradford Long 01:27 That's great. I love that. I yeah, I wish I wish I could get away with with doing that. I think that there's kind of a a genius and being able to do that and still sound somewhat competent and professional. I am not able to do that. So I have to, whenever I have a guest on I have to read their entire book. Ya know, it's I have to come up with a bullet list. Like it's crazy. Yeah. And

Will 01:51 I think I think we know sort of what we're doing, and we know how to feel it out when it's just the two of us. But since this isn't typically a guest show, except in special occasions, we're just like, oh, man, this other person what what on earth do we do now? So you know, but, but all that to say, welcome. Welcome to this show, Steven. And technically, thank you for having us on your show as well.

Stephen Bradford Long 02:13 Yes, of course. It's my pleasure. Yeah. So this is airing on both shows. Yeah. On common creatives and sacred tension. Yeah. So absolutely. Yes. And you are part of the rock candy Podcast Network. We are which Matt Langston and I co-lead. Yeah, it's like a little. It's like a little degenerate circus troupe of podcasters.

Will 02:37 Yeah, we're very happy to be part of it.

Joe 02:39 Which makes sense as to why you'd be interested in our show.

Stephen Bradford Long 02:42 Yes. 100%. Gay satanic unicorns is like the theme just Yes. Across the aesthetic of the show.

Will 02:54 Yeah, well, I do. I do have to say I really am appreciative of you coming on the show. And I'm a big fan of your stuff and your work. So I'm excited.

Stephen Bradford Long 03:01 I appreciate that.

Joe 03:03 I want to say, correct me if I'm wrong Will, but sure. I think wasn't it Stephen show that you found first? And that's how you kind of got linked up?

Will 03:11 Oh, yeah. It absolutely was. I was listening to your show, a satanic podcast out of the bay area called black mass appeal that I listened to a lot. And I think they're even rates. Yeah, they're wonderful. And you guessed it on there, Steven. And it was a great episode. And you were talking through and I was like, Man, I gotta I gotta look this up. This dude's got his own podcast. And so then. Yeah, and so then. Oh, the music on that's by eleventyseven. I've heard of them. Like, you know, and so yeah. Interesting. Super interesting because, you know, we used to play in a band that crossed paths crossed, crossed, crossed paths with maths band a

Stephen Bradford Long 03:44 lot. Sure. Yeah. So so just for context for people who have no idea what we're talking about, right? So Matt Langston mentioned just a minute ago, his band is eleventy seven, which is kind of a former Christian pop punk synth band, and just recently left the Christian music industry. And he's been very vocal about that whole process. And he started rock candy recordings. And then he and I started rock candy podcasts together. Yeah. as kind of an offshoot of rock candy recordings. Yeah. So it is a very weird mix of people because it's like synth pop post, evangelical with Matt and then Satan. Yeah, with me. Yeah. Gay safe. And then of course, we have Peterson Toscano on board who does climate activism and LGBT activism and biblical scholarship and yeah, it's it's fun.

Will 04:49 Yeah. It's so interesting to me that it's wonderful that the network has kind of a following. And there are people who all of those like myself who all have those Little Bits kind of kind of work, you know, I'm

Stephen Bradford Long 05:02 actually converge they really do. Yeah, exactly. It's a very, very nice group, we will probably never be a large network because of that. But that's okay. We found our people. That is what matters.

Will 05:13 Exactly. Exactly. Well, do you guys want to jump in and talk about what we're talking about? And do some let's do some digging? Yeah. So what we are talking about today is house of the devil, which is a film that, that when I reached out and asked if if you wanted to guest or you want to do a collaboration, Steven, you brought this film up, and this film is a favorite of mine. And I know that Joe's super into it, we were already considering the possibility and we probably will in the future of doing a tie West episode. And so this will be sort of supplemental, where we don't have to cover his whole body of work. We can just really dig in to house of the devil song. I'm psyched about that.

Stephen Bradford Long 05:51 Yeah. And in the email you sent me several days ago, you specifically mentioned satanic Sure, yeah. You know, possibly possibly doing satanic media or something I was, and thought that this would be a great movie from from a cert a satanic perspective, for sure. Yeah. So that's why I brought it up. And it's just a fantastic movie. I rewatched it today, this afternoon before recording, and I was, I don't know, I've seen it several times. And every time I watch it, I feel like I am reminded all over again, of how effective and powerful a movie. It really is. is so it is terrifying. It is so well done.

Will 06:33 Yeah. Joe, what was your first sort of exposure to this film or tie West? You know,

Joe 06:38 I actually think that we watched it together the first time. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, this must have been five or six years ago. I think, you know, this was one of the first movies you know, wait, Hans. Tiff has dog training right now. There you go. She speaks very, like, we have two reactive dogs. And she's been very into, we've been very into kind of positive reinforcement and that kind of thing. So she's Oh,

Stephen Bradford Long 07:09 that's so sweet. Yeah, we so much better than so many human parents with human children.

Joe 07:18 So, periodically, you might hear that and I hope we'll we'll decide whether or not and we'll normally edit these episodes. On our end. I'm actually I'm the audio engineer. And when we started this, I'm like, Well, yeah, but will you edit it? Because if you all are noted, and I actually am halfway through editing the eleventy Life episode and man, do I hate myself?

Will 07:43 No. Oh, you mean listening to your own voice? And

Joe 07:46 yeah, like trying to make mice like I am. So like, especially right now, like super like thinking of like how I'm putting words together. I'm saying, um, I stuttering and it's, anyway excruciating.

Stephen Bradford Long 07:58 It's really excruciating. And I've just learned to just forget about it. I just don't care how I I've gotten to the point where I don't care how I sound on the internet. And I try to speak coherently. But I'm really not a coherent speaker. Like when I listened to myself unedited. It is excruciating. And so I feel like all my listeners are, are now actually hearing how, how incomprehensible I am when I when I don't have the audio equivalent of an Instagram filter to put over myself.

Will 08:36 Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things where you start to notice little verbal tics that probably everyone else like when I listened to your I've listened to a couple of your unedited episodes or one and a half or so and, and you know, I don't know it, I don't notice anything that I'm like, oh, man, I can't believe he wouldn't cut that out. I'm sure no one else would notice about me but when I listened back I'm like, I can't believe I said, you know, I did that again. Just gotta cut it out.

Joe 08:58 Yeah, so I feel I feel like there will be some sort of mental block just because I'm like, right in the middle of editing this thing. And I will just probably like overthink everything I'm saying and that's just I just and I will freeze I'll just felt like a deer in the headlights. Anyway HOUSE OF THE DEVIL Ty West Yeah. So I think what's so interesting about Ty West in general, I could nerd out about like, his his filmography and kind of what got him to making HOUSE OF THE DEVIL which is kind of an interesting story to me. I don't know if you guys will find it as interesting but him making this movie The way in which he made it you know, shooting it on 16 millimeter film and lighting it the way he did and cutting it the way he did and using zooms and all this kind of stuff was kind of the this the start of this new kind of wave of like throwback horror sure if that makes sense. Yeah. So right on right before Stranger Things right so Stranger Things is, is not exactly this. It's Stranger Things is more of a let's be than in nostalgia. This one honestly feels more like he's actually trying to make a period piece.

Stephen Bradford Long 10:08 He's trying to recreate it. Yeah. A movie, not just sat but made in the movies.

Will 10:15 Yeah. I mean, that's that's the first thing I noticed as I was rewatching this and I knew that about this film, but oh, man, it just comes up. And it's just got that such that nice film grade on it. Oh, just so good. Yeah. And

Joe 10:28 so he, I mean, this film is no cabin fever too, right.

Stephen Bradford Long 10:35 So I have not seen Cabin Fever, too.

Joe 10:38 Okay. Most people have it. Yeah. So Ty West directed Cabin Fever, too. And Are you guys familiar with Alan Smithee? No, that's the name that directors try to get put on the title of their movie when a movie has been taken away from them, producers, take it away from them in the edit. It's basically not their cut. It's not their intention. So they try and get Alan Smithee to be put in the titles as the director, okay. It's like a it's like a thing, you know, that goes around the industry. Sure. And he couldn't do it. So his name is still under that movie. So he was approached by I don't even remember the studio to make cabin fever to. And of course, like, anyone's going to be like, or any like it, especially if you're thinking of like House of the devil and the innkeepers and some of the movies this guy's made. It's like, Oh, this guy's kind of too cool to make that movie. But he was approached to make cabin fever to with, you can do what ever you want. Sure, sure. And his take was I'm going to take Cabin Fever, just like Raimi did evil, dead evil, dead to Evil Dead was the I'm trying to make a ridiculous but serious horror movie and evil that two is, I am completely and totally aware of what this is. And I'm going to have fun with it. I'm going to add three stooges. I'm going to add comedy, I'm going to add all of these things. So his pitch was I'm going to make Cabin Fever two as if this were evil, dead two and just go super wild and wacky. It's going to be funny. It's going to be all of these things. And it's going to be mine. And they're like, yes, please, let's do that. Let's make this movie. And he did. He turned in his cut of the movie. And they said, Oh, God, we changed our mind. We're going to we're going to take it from you. We're going to recut it, we're going to fire you. And we're going to try and cut it to feel as much like the original as possible in tone. Sure, which at this point is just long gone. Because his whole intent was to make a wacky, fun circus version of cabin fever, you know, just to just to go for it. And obviously, that's going to be a really difficult thing to take that footage that was cut and make it so he was so burned by the industry. Like it was almost his out. It was like, I don't think I can do this anymore. And then he was approached by a financier, a friend saying, hey, what about that house of the devil movie? We could make it. He's like, I will make it but I get final cut. I will probably be like a dictator on this set. To get the shots I want. I don't want to shoot any extra coverage if I don't want to the tone is going to be exactly how I want and it's like an ultimatum like either all me or none. And they said okay, sure. And that's why the movie is so specific. Yeah, if that makes sense. And so hard in one direction. Yeah, it could have been a very different movie. So that's my spiel on as to kind of his his journey to making this

Will 13:26 movie is totally Ty Weston. This is his vision to a tee to some degree. Yeah, so

Stephen Bradford Long 13:32 yeah. So do you just know all of this information off the top of your head?

Joe 13:41 Pull back the curtain. I'm gonna be honest, for this movie. Specifically, I didn't really take any notes. I'm not that much of a nerd.

Stephen Bradford Long 13:50 Alright. Yeah. Awesome. No, I actually found myself wondering that listening to some of the previous episodes, like, so. Did they take notes? Did they do homework? Or do they actually just know this? Sure. It's

Will 14:03 usually it's combination of both. It's a combination of both for sure.

Joe 14:07 Usually, the subjects that I pick are I take less notes and vice versa?

Will 14:12 Yeah, totally nice.

Joe 14:14 But you pick this one?

Stephen Bradford Long 14:15 Yes, I did. Well, and and the extent of my research for this is a being a Satanist. And be sure. Watching Joe Bob Briggs version of a on shutter. Yeah, so that's exactly watching his feature. That's what

Will 14:31 I watched to actually I have notes I am so I watched Joe Bob's commentary for those of you who don't know Joe, Bob Briggs is a horror host who gives movie commentary on his show the last drive in on shutter which is amazing. You should check it out. Yes. That said in the opening of Joe Bob's commentary, he calls this film religious horror. And for some reason that stuck out to me I know that that it's something like Satanism is involved. You know, you have symbology I mean, it's a Satanic Panic movie. Sure. Did you all read this? For some reason, and this may not go anywhere. This may be a cul de sac of a conversation. But did you all read this movie as religious horror when you saw it the first time?

Stephen Bradford Long 15:12 I think most Horror Produced right now is religious horror interest either deliberately or not sure. I think that most I won't say most you there are some significant exceptions. But I think maybe most of the popular horror especially supernatural horror, yeah. Is is almost kind of subtle Christian propaganda. Because it it has these underlying assumptions of God is real. Evil responds to Christian symbols. Yeah. And so it's like, there's this backdrop of Christianity being assumed and, and the backdrop in this movie, you know, there isn't that, you know, level of blatant. Yeah, Christian, you know, kind of Christian backdrop the way there isn't, say an exorcism movie or what have you. Yeah. But it does have the backdrop of the Satanic Panic. But it's more of like a fever dream, what Christians thought was real sure. Right. Yeah. And it's it's almost more like the witch, you know, the witch was like a Robert Eggers. The witch was like this Puritan fever dream of the nightmare of feminism. Yeah. And female sexuality, and you're flooding sexuality and all of that. And I feel like that's a very specific genre of getting into the nightmare of a religious group. Yeah, specifically? Sure. I don't know. Does that make sense? So I, that's what this movie is doing? In my mind is it's, it's taking someone else's nightmare and putting it on the screen. And that particular nightmare is the Satanic Panic of the isn't it?

Will 16:55 No, absolutely. I think that makes perfect sense. I mean, and I think the analogy with the witch is particularly good, right? Because it's like, what if you just took this? I mean, in the case of the witches, this sort of harsh Calvinist Puritan theology, you know, and here, it's the sort of, as you said, the sort of Satanic Panic of the 80s 70s and 80s, whatever. It's, it's what if that was real? In both those cases, you have sort of conspiratorial thinking that builds into sort of social problems for people. But But what happens if the mythology the sort of supernatural mythology what happens if those monsters actually are out there? You know, and I think that makes for Fantastic horror. And it's and it's no, I think your your analysis is absolutely right, in that sense.

Stephen Bradford Long 17:39 Yeah. So I think Joe, Bob is right, that this is kind of a religious movie. Sure. Just because of the backdrop that it's set against.

Will 17:48 Yeah. And do we have so? So here's, here's a question that I'm thinking right now, as we're talking about whether this movie is religious or not, obviously, this is an homage to the Satanic Panic. I know that in the one shot where the family, the dead family, who presumably actually lives in the house, is all splayed out, and they have a sort of pentagram drawn on the floor. And then they have a pentagram later, you have symbology that is associated with sort of satanic imagery and things like that. Or is there any language in the script? Do you all remember the language in the script

Stephen Bradford Long 18:19 about So and actually, this is something that I was just thinking, where it's like, you can you can come to this movie in two ways. You can just come to it as kind of a fantastic horror movie and not pick up on any of the religious overtones in it, because it's all historical. Sure, sure. Yeah. And, and, or you can be like me, who grew up in a, you know, kind of very toxic religious setting that 100% believed in the Satanic Panic. Yeah. And, and believed that Satanists were were capturing young women and impregnating them and forcing them to be brides of Satan. That is something that people actually believed in. And so I feel like there are those two different ways that someone could approach this movie, you could approach it as someone who has no context for the film, and because there isn't really anything in the script itself, you wouldn't know. Yeah. But for someone like me, who grew up in the evangelical world in the 90s it's very obvious Sure, for me that there are religious overtones, but it's it's all kind of in the context. It's all unspoken.

Will 19:34 Yeah, no, no, definitely. Another another thing I was thinking as I was rewatching this film is this film. You mentioned, Steven, that this film is terrifying. I mean, it's a it's an effective horror movie. It's not just really it's not parody. It's not, you know, tongue in cheek or anything. It tries to be scary. And it succeeds, you know, but for me at the same time, for some reason, this movie is kind of comfort food, if that makes sense. Like Absolutely not. I mean, and I'm curious about what that sort of element is, I

Joe 20:04 think, you know, its sheer atmosphere. You know, there's not much of a plot, there's not a ton of character development. You don't know much about this girl other than she's kind of like, you know, a typical 80s kind of almost a sexual type of character. And she goes into a house because she needs money. You don't know much about the family until the third act, right? Yeah. Are the people who brought her in the movies just about creating an atmosphere that just feels spooky and that spookiness I know, Will and I, we share this kind of love for Halloween, like, probably most people do. But there's just something I think comforting about the fact that it's not just plod, Gore, heavy character development. No, it's just a young girl walking through a house long zooms down the hall, you know, it's just vibe and atmosphere. Yeah, for the most most of the movie,

Stephen Bradford Long 20:58 and so well constructed. Yeah, like, it's so bizarre to think that I would actually sit and watch and enjoy like, I don't know, two hours how I however long this movie is of, of just long shots down corridors and peering around door frames and whatnot, but it it works really, really, really just

Joe 21:25 feels really good. Yeah, it does. And I think upon you, when you when you first watch it, you know, second, third, fourth, fifth, you know, however many times we've watched at this point, it is more comfort food, but the first time you watch it, I think the reason it works is because of Meghan, Greta Gerwig his character, you know, right away that first jumpscare of Oh, you're not the babysitter, you know, boom, she gets spoiler alert, she gets her head blown off in the car. So at that point, you realize, this isn't just a wonder if something bad's gonna happen, something bad will happen. And then after that she's in the house like her friends dead she the first thing she does she calls her friend or friend doesn't answer. The audience knows something's going on going on. And she doesn't really know anything's going on until the very end of the move. Sure. Yeah. She She and I think that's why it works. Like she goes up to a door. You see the door once. I'm not going to open up that she goes down. You forget about it. She goes to the door wartime, I think I'm gonna open that door. She doesn't open the door. But then Ty shows us what's on the other side of that door. Yeah, she still doesn't know. But we see corpses on the other side of the doors. So like the whole time. Here's

Stephen Bradford Long 22:33 a gram. Yeah, he's gouged down.

Joe 22:36 Yeah. So you're leaning forward the whole time and but she's relaxed. And I think because she's relaxed. There is a comfort to that interest. That makes sense. So

Stephen Bradford Long 22:46 he does this. Speaking of the corpses behind the door and lying in the pentagram with their eyes gouged out. There is something about the gore in this movie. That is, there isn't anything remarkable about it? Yeah. But the way it is set up, it is so extraordinarily upsetting. And I don't really know why that is. But But Thai West did the exact same thing. It has the the same level of visceral horror in the innkeepers. Oh, yeah. At the very end of the innkeepers. Yeah, that is absolutely just chilling and horrific. And I think it's because he he's such a master of building up suspense so that now then when you do finally see a bit of blood, yeah, it's it is real bad. It feels bad, even if it isn't visually that awful.

Joe 23:40 Sure. And I think the other side of that is, it's suspense mixed with like, completely ordinary, kind of like this. This girl, Samantha, is completely ordinary, right? She's not kind of over sexualized. She's not like super stylized, she's very stylized, but right through the lens of like, legitimate, ordinary 80s. Like not much happens, these characters just kind of sit and wait. And because they're comfortable sitting and waiting, we're comfortable sitting and waiting. And I think in this world is created as soon as you see something that's like that kind of visceral. Yeah, I think that it plays against that, that sense of Sure. Nothing happens in this world, this ordinary world if that makes Yeah,

Will 24:23 I mean, it does. And And I'm curious, like so this was one as I listened to a couple of podcasts where they were talking about this just to get some different perspectives and so forth. And I heard some people actually criticize the film on this point. And I know this is sort of, if you're going to criticize this film, this might be one of the ways to do it is to say, this is this goes beyond a slow burn, and essentially just nothing happens, which is the and I don't feel this way. But I'm saying, you know, does this go beyond? does this become boring? Does this ever become boring or not? I had heard I heard someone else make the critique that it actually doesn't help that The audience knows something that she doesn't know, it would be better if the audience was on her journey and didn't know about the choruses behind the door until the end until the third act and the satanists get revealed or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And I don't feel that way myself, I think the dramatic irony works really well, to where we, as the audience become more and more tense, even as she and we that sort of creates that classic horror movie sort of get out of there. You know what I mean? Even though she really has no reason to, like, from her perspective, we can understand that everything does seem it seems a little creepy, but there's nothing like, you know, there's no reason to call 911 She doesn't have an emergency, if you

Stephen Bradford Long 25:39 were told from her perspective, it would be even more boring. Yeah. It already is. Because so little happened.

Will 25:46 No, that's very, that's very true. That's a very astute point.

Stephen Bradford Long 25:49 I mean, I think that I think that different things scare different people. Yeah. And so I think whether this movie is boring or not, depends entirely on whether you've had a terrifying Home Alone experience or a creepy Home Alone experience. Because I think that there's there are times when I watch horror movies, and, and I realized that they're capturing and capitalizing and building a single really intense common emotion. Yeah, like when you are and what this movie does, I think, is it. It takes that feeling of when maybe you're a kid in school, and your parents leave, and you're just in the house, and there's just that mild feeling of weirdness. Yeah. Right. And creepiness. And that's it. That's the whole movie. That is the entire movie. And so whether you like just the until, of course, the the final act where sure the satanists are revealed, and suddenly it gets all bloody and terrifying. Yeah. And so either that either that experience scares you or doesn't shed, if it scares you, then this movie is 100%. there for you. Like you, it terrifies you. But if if you're not that person, then then this movie will be boring because and I think, and I remember, you know, like, have being home alone for hours at a time. And just getting this weird, uneasy, creepy feeling. Yeah. Where it's like it's mild enough that you can just kind of ignore it. But it's it's still palpably there. And it's uncomfortable. And it's unsettling for sure. That's what this movie is all the way through. Yeah. You know, and so different things are different things are scary to different people. Yeah. And I think that entirely determines what's boring and what's not.

Will 27:43 Yeah, well in for those of us who understand that feeling right of being at home, I mean, I still get I'm in my 30s I still get that feeling. Sometimes, you know, if I'm home by myself or something, but it's kind of you will hear a bump or something. Exactly. You know, it's the nightmare scenario, though, where all of those feelings are justified, because you're about to be murdered by Calvinists. You know, that kind of thing. No, I think that's I think that's a great point. Different things are scary to different people. That leads me to another thing that I wanted to bring up, which is, I think on our podcast anyway, this is the first film that we've talked about that we've alluded to films in this genre, but this film is definitely an example of mumble Gore movies, where another mumble goer into the mumble gore? I don't know, Steven, if you've heard of this sort of substance. Before, I

Stephen Bradford Long 28:30 don't know what other movies I've seen. Yeah, that fall into it. I know that this movie is mumble gore. Yeah, but I don't know if any of the other movies I've seen or mumbled war. Sure.

Joe 28:41 It's a blurry line. Okay. If you look up, I've done this before. I'm gonna do it real quick. Just just for tickles. Yeah, sure. If you look up, mumble Gore on Wikipedia, a bunch of movies come up that you wouldn't think Oh, creep. Creep. Yeah, no, creep is definitely one of the creep is gray. Chris was wonderful. Yeah. the innkeepers pops up on there. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And the innkeepers I think does for the 90s What house of the devil did like it? They never straight up say it happens in the 90s but that movie is so 90s That's very interesting. For me, for whatever reason, the innkeepers holds an even special place in my heart then house of the devil. I'm not sure why. Interesting, it just feels like like a haunted house clerks movie or something, but like dialed down. Yes. And I I'm just a sucker for paranormal kind of ghost stories. Me too. But no, I think what the innkeepers feels like a night will rewind, take two I think Ty West does for the 90s with the innkeepers that house the devil did for the 80s

Stephen Bradford Long 29:54 Interesting. Yeah, I can see that. What did you think of the sacrament to toe I haven't seen So in a different okay sacrament I never want to see it ever again. I don't Sure yeah because it is fucking traumatizing and it is so devastating and such a realistic portrayal of Jonestown I mean yeah he's Jonestown beat for beat. It has Jonestown beat for beat and they capture the those last. Yes, yes, those last hours of Jonestown so horrifyingly well, that I just have no need to ever see it ever again.

Joe 30:31 I'll watch it. Yeah, just because I'm a tie West fan I've seen it's worth watching. It is, um, but I think I've heard I've heard more about the sacrament than I've actually, like, seen, obviously, haven't seen the movie, but I'm a nerd. And I've listened to him on a lot of podcasts. And for him making the sacrament was actually really difficult. You know, it was more of a found footage thing. So I think his end was, I have the story idea. I can hire all my friends as actors, one of the actors will be a dp. So he'll be actually be shooting and like, you know, on a technical level, this is going to work. But at the end of the day, he's like, it was one of the like, the heaviest like living with this thing for a year and making this thing like all the people in the movie, we're having a lot of fun because like, but he was like living in it. Right. So like, it was a really difficult thing. So he's been quoted saying that the sacrament is the reason why he realized that like, the movies are magic, and there's a magic to the innkeepers. And there's a magic to house of the devil. That's, there's, there's it's a step removed from realism, right? Yeah. And that's something that I love about those movies is like, you never You don't watch House of devil and think of real kind of Satanic Panic Satanists doing this thing, right. Like, you know, better. It's more of just kind of having fun with the spookiness of the idea versus this terrible thing that could happen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes that did happen. That did happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Will 32:08 I mean, that's as part of the thing like the actual, you know, if you were going to do a real scary story about the Satanic Panic, it would be, Oh, someone was falsely accused. And they use junk evidence to convict them and sent them you know, and ruined their entire life. Like, that's the real horror story. The Satanic Panic, right? Yeah. This looking at looking at this. This is the fun, mythological story of Satanic Panic, you know, right. It's terrifying. And it's scary when you're watching the movie. But at the end of the day, this is mythology. So so that makes it that gives you that sort of artistic or a slight distance.

Joe 32:43 You know, I think you have to watch this movie through the lens of a wink, right? Yes. You know, I think taking something like what a lot of like, evangelical Christians think of as a Satanist. Sure, taking that. What am I trying to say? I'm

Stephen Bradford Long 33:01 taking that the taking that that evangelical vision of what a Satanist is, and just having fun with it?

Joe 33:07 Yeah, I think I think you have to, I think it's problematic to try and make a movie that felt like a serious take on Satanism in that way. If you're if you're trying if he if his goal is to try and make people afraid of Satanists, right. I don't think that's what he's doing. Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 33:28 yeah, this brings up an interesting topic for me, because someone recently asked me, So does it ever upset, you know, that all of the media portrayal of satanist is negative? You know, Satanists are always the villains. Satanists are always the the scary evil doers and the sacrifices and whatnot. Sure. And no, it really doesn't. It doesn't bother me at all. I because I think that you know, symbols are subjective. And symbols can mean many different things. But it but there is a dissonance there is this tension, where it's like all of these movies with Satan, or, or Satanism that I absolutely love are movies that portray Satan and Satanism in a very negative light as as dark and evil and whatnot. And that's a it's a it's just a weird tension. Yeah. That I'm not entirely sure how to resolve but it's just there. And I think it will be sure to be there.

Will 34:31 Yeah. Well, and that's and that I mean, that's, that's, that's an interesting point. I'm glad you brought it up, which is, which is that when I asked, you know, I was like, hey, think about this thing. Think about some media, we could talk about that. It has a sort of satanic bent to it. And this one comes up and it says this is a paradigm example of sort of, you know, representations of Satanism and pop culture and that type of thing. And it's so I find it interesting that from a satanic person, an actual real satanic perspective. If there was a movie, it seems like if there was a movie in which As Christians were being represented, as the satanists are being represented in this movie, right, most Christians would be wouldn't. Right? How many shows up? And there's a bloody cross drawn on the floor?

Joe 35:11 In our right, of course, and I haven't seen the sacrament. But is it? Isn't that kind of, you know, he interesting. Yeah. So he took that's, I think that's the other page is that this isn't real, this is real, like this happened

Stephen Bradford Long 35:23 that and, and, and Jim Jones was very much a I mean, I mean, he was a very, very popular careerist politician. Yeah. Political preacher who was very popular and, and he was not far outside the mainstream, especially at first, you know, and I and so I think that all of this examining of symbols, and this is just something that I'm acutely aware of as someone who thinks and writes and talks about Satanism and the symbol of Satan all the time is and I think Lucien Greaves was the founder of the Satanic Temple, he he said this somewhere, and we talked about this in an interview I did with him recently, where evil done in the name of Christ is still evil and good done in the name of Satan is still good. Sure. And being able to play with the symbols. Yeah, being being able to see the symbols as subjective. Yeah, is important, because then it doesn't trap them in this binary of perfectly good or perfectly evil. So I think that's why I as a as an actual religious, Satanist, and a, I'm able to look at this movie and still enjoy it, because I understand that the symbols are subjective. Yeah. And then the symbol of Christ can be just as destructive and evil.

Will 36:44 Sure, yeah. And I mean, to some extent that that taking on of the, of the, you know, symbol of Satan or Satanism, even right, is sort of doing that as is part of the trying the attempts to sort of uncouple sort of any sort of mythic structure from any sort of ethical structure, right, there is nothing inherently ethical about any particular mythical structure. They can all be used for good things or bad things it doesn't. And that's one of the lessons of the Satanic Panic and of the witch trials and all this kind of this conspiratorial thinking from beforehand, right, is that just saying that someone is associated with a particular mythological structure does not count as evidence against them? I mean, this is the sort of the whole thing right, exactly. Right. So sort of, you know, in the actual Satanic Panic, oh, no, these daycare workers are involved in Satanism? Well, I guess we don't need any more evidence, let's just put them in jail. That kind of thing. And so I forget exactly how that LinkedIn with what it was that we were talking about. But I know it I know, it was where I was going. So

Stephen Bradford Long 37:43 yes, yes. I think you're exactly right about that. And it's weird to me that, I don't know, it is a it is a bizarre experience, to love movies that have a representation of Satan. And, and yet that image be, you know, a depiction of evil. And so but I think that the aesthetics of it, or the symbol is not inherently evil. It is just the the the context of the narrative that makes it evil. Sure. Like another great movie that comes to mind is the devil's candy, which is Oh, interesting, fantastic movie that I haven't you. You must watch it. It's great. It's another really, really, really good little kind of indie horror

Will 38:34 film. Cool. Yeah. I have to check that out. So another thing I want to bring up as long as we're talking about this, and we lawyers, were talking about this film, and we talked about, you know, mumble gore and Greta Gerwig. Fantastic. Fantastic. In this movie. She plays. I forget her name. I forget her character's name again, though. Meghan. Okay. Yes, thank you.

Joe 38:51 The fun thing about Greta Gerwig Gerwig in this movie, you know, when when she's first introduced, she's she's at the pizza shop eating pizza, right? Yeah. And it's a fun way to foreshadow the pizza shop later with the extra anchovies and her being drugged through the pizza and all that kind of stuff. But the director basically his direction for her when she was eating the pizza was just make it really gross looking. So when she's eating the pizza, she's she's kind of talking through it and you know, to chunk it. He's just like, gross, or just make it gross. And she's just kind of in you know, goes for it to that track.

Will 39:27 So Well, that makes so much sense in retrospect, cuz she pulled it off. I mean, yeah.

Stephen Bradford Long 39:33 Whereas to me, it just hurts. Because that is so much on there is so much uneaten pizza. In this movie, yeah. Yeah. It causes me as a voluptuous bear. Who loves pizza. Yeah, I am mortified. Should we should we get pizza after this? Yeah. I just had some yesterday and I'm trying really hard not to just eat pizza every single day in corn. That's that's a challenge like that is my one life goal right now is to just not eat pizza every day.

Will 40:09 That is the challenge. Yeah, absolutely. I

Joe 40:11 hit I hit a with with my snacking I had I haven't told anyone this other than TIFF. Because now you're about to tell everyone now I'm about to tell everyone this is this is the lowest point of my quarantine has nothing to do with pizza. It has everything to do with snacking and eating. Yeah, I might have purchased on Amazon, a four pound bag of Hot Tamales.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:32 A four pound bag.

Joe 40:35 It said four pounds and it's like 10 bucks. And I'm like, it can't be that. It's worth it. It's large. That's great, man. And I'm having I'm gonna I'm having to slow

Will 40:44 here's the thing. Here's the thing. If while you are snacking on on it, you are lifting the bag. You probably equals out because now

Joe 40:53 that bag is too heavy. That bag in my lap

Stephen Bradford Long 40:57 like a trough. Yeah, exactly.

Joe 41:01 Anyway, good. But yeah, so she, but that also. Now I'm steering that normally Steven, I like to derail it and which I just did. Don't get me wrong. I just I just took the train off the trash. But it's usually well who brings it back and butter bringing myself back. Great job. But pizza. I mean, but just the thought that he had like his he had a take on how she should eat the pizza. And it's not random. It's let's put a weird taste for pizza and people's mouths right away. Yeah, because that pizza is later going to be even grosser. Right?

Will 41:37 Yeah. And that yeah, the play later where they never I mean, she doesn't you know, sort of have exposition to herself when she's at the house by herself about how the pizza that she orders tastes bad, but just the effectiveness of showing her like rinsing her mouth and kind of moving her tongue around your teeth. You know, it makes you go oh, like you know where the pizza came from. You don't fully as an audience member understand exactly why it tastes bad yet. And but you know, something's off. I found that incredibly effect. Yeah, and even

Joe 42:06 when you know, first of all, what's what's Mr. Ullman is almonds. Yeah, first of all, he's he's magnificent. Tom nunam noon. Yeah. Is so goodness movies. He is.

Stephen Bradford Long 42:18 There are also two veteran Scream Queens in this. Yes. I can't remember that. I can't remember either. I will look for their names. But yes, he brought one of them out of retirement. Mary Warren off. Yes, that's right. All right.

Joe 42:34 And she had done a bunch of stuff. I had I had the I was looking at the list yesterday. And I've heard him actually talking to interviews about how basically he had to continue to he got her number like the director had to he kept calling her saying listen, like, I know you're not doing this thing anymore. But I have this idea and like I'm gonna do it my way and it's gonna be you know, like this and I don't know, but eventually, just because, you know, he was he was, you know, very kind of competent and knew the movie he was making. She eventually ended she agreed to do it. Yeah, well,

Will 43:07 she was she was in shopping mall 1986 Yes, she was fantastic robot death mall movie. Wow,

Joe 43:16 I didn't realize that was her

Will 43:17 yeah, she was apparently had a bit pardon Dick Tracy 9090 and a couple others several several sort of gore sounding that I'm not aware of signing Silent Night bloody night is on there.

Stephen Bradford Long 43:28 I hope you've seen silent night Oh, was it Silent Night bloody night or silent? Silent Night deadly was a bloody night so I'm not a silent night deadly night is a piece of your cinema.

Will 43:42 Yeah, yeah, I remember I remember. I remember the cover of that from my days in the VHS store when I was a child like walking around looking for movies to rent I remember Silent Night deadly night where Santos arm is sticking out of a chimney and he's got an axe and it's

Stephen Bradford Long 43:57 it's it's the best it is so horrifically bad. And obviously a product of someone's personal vision that should never have seen

Will 44:10 and the other the other sort of classic actor that he has in there is Dee Wallace who plays the landlady at the beginning Yep. She was in apparently the Hills Have Eyes The original Hills Have Eyes so

Stephen Bradford Long 44:22 so confession I have still not seen the Hills Have Eyes interesting. I'm not a terribly large West Craven fan. Oh, interesting. Okay, I don't I don't know why I guess I I think I

Will 44:34 like better than that film in particular. But yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 44:37 well, I liked Of course I loved Nightmare on Elm Street, but then everything else I'm just kind of made sure yes. Okay. That's

Will 44:45 fair enough. That's fair enough. I think the Hills Have Eyes has a very particular sort of, if you like that kind of rural sort of hillbilly cannibal aesthetic, then maybe that's a film for you. But otherwise, you know, that's not a particularly

Stephen Bradford Long 45:00 sounds like sounds like my neighborhood. Sounds like the cannibal meth clowns are right who I share the street with.

Will 45:09 Sure. Yeah,

Joe 45:10 yeah. I mean, I'm I'm a big I haven't seen. I'm not like I've seen all the Freddy movies like I saw you know the first one the best one. Yeah. And I saw some of like New Nightmare but I thought just the the concept was really interesting. Yeah. But New Nightmare. West Craven I think walks hand in hand with scream West Craven in the sense that like, there's definitely an awareness to what he's making at this point. Like, it's, it's, you know, scream the whole idea is that like, there's there's the whole movies a big wink, right? Yeah. He's winking to the fact that, you know, we've all seen scream, right? Yeah. But New Nightmare if you haven't seen it, like it starts like, it's like a movie within a movie kind of thing. I think that's the the West crave a science, right? So

Will 46:03 that's sort of meta idea. Well, and as long we're not here to talk about Western, as long as we're as long as we're talking about actors in House of the devil. I do want to come back to Tom Noonan for just a minute, because I think he's great in this. And he's just great. More broadly. I found him really effectively off putting in Uncanny in this film. Yeah, you all felt about

Stephen Bradford Long 46:24 us, but he's weird and creepy and soft. Spoken. Yeah. Awkward. So yes. Yeah. And at the same time in mind, teal. Yeah, my, my read of the character was,

Joe 46:37 I felt sorry for him. I felt like he'd spent his entire life trying to prove himself to like, the people around him right interest. And I go into character, like, um, a character guy, you know, just the first of all, like, he's trying so hard. He's like, I have to find a girl for tonight. This is really important. Please, right. And then and then as soon as they leave for their he and his wife leave for their quote, unquote, date or wherever they're going, like he said, Now, I know, you didn't believe me. But I told you, I was going to pull through on this, right? And there's like, there's this whole sense of like, she's been more set, you're not going to do this, you're not going to get this done. You're you can't do this. And he's just trying so hard. And he's like, I did it, right. And then at the very end, he gets stabbed first. And it's like, oh, like, he's he? I know, he's doing this terrible thing to you. But he's kind of like, he just feels genuine about it. Sure. And then, and then, you know, she, you know, she, he's like, Listen, you can shoot me like, this is this thing is like, to him, this isn't this big, evil thing. It's just this important thing. Right? And maybe it is evil. I don't know. I mean, I guess. But I think the perspective there is like, his character makes it less about good versus evil and more about, like, her just being part of the ceremony that's happening, like, you know, and then, you know, go back to the Old Testament and like, sacrificial things to you know, the Christian God is kind of the same thing. Anyway, to call him back to his character. Like, he's like, Listen, you can shoot me like, this is really important to me. And then she like, pulls the gun to her head. And he's just seems really, like, very distraught. And his character just is there's a softness to it. Yeah. And I think that in the context of this movie comes off as really creepy. Yeah. Which I think is really effective.

Stephen Bradford Long 48:26 Really, really powerful. Yeah, so basically, what I'm hearing is that there should be another movie that's like a mumble core wicked kind of version of of Oz where it's like the retelling about him and it's like he's this sad old man who just mumbles his way through the movie and just can't do anything right where his domineering satanic why and then finally at the very end, he pulls it off.

Will 48:57 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's an interesting read on that character that like that like, and I like it. I think it's probably I mean, it seems like it could have sort of, you know, intention behind it. Please stand by

Joe 49:11 I don't know that there's any great way to transition it like okay, guys. I think I figured out why. Y'all can't hear the buzzing no one can they can hear the buzzing you're not gonna hear the buzzing and the audience Sure so did so I didn't know this. I remember it from the Ninja Turtles. How like, extra anchovies was always just like a gross anchovies grows extrange Apparently it's a thing where adding extra anchovies can mean a few different things in in one sense, it can mean like, like mushrooms right or putting something like that on your pizza. The other thing is, the delivery person offering extra anchovies will then also deliver sexual favors. Oh,

Will 49:55 I thought you were gonna say wow,

Stephen Bradford Long 49:57 I will definitely take extra anchovies.

Joe 50:00 But yeah, that being said, that's something I didn't realize until I kind of looked it up. So when he says extra anchovies like I think the intention there is to, to make it feel creepy in some way. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if it's, but what he does deliver is extra anchovies being a drug to Pizza

Stephen Bradford Long 50:20 being Murder. Murder. Well now that just adds a whole new layer to my pizza fetish. Like the only thing that could make pizza better is if it's like, like, like some gorgeous dirty pizza honk at the door delivering pizza. Yeah, it says do you want do you want extra anchovies with that? I'm like, Yes, please. Yeah, and then he comes in

Will 50:46 you call Yeah, you just call when you're not even extra anchovies hold.

Stephen Bradford Long 50:49 I put all the cats in the back so they don't. So they don't see any indecency because your children they have fragile minds. And they do definitely watch the stare. They have this this eerie penetrating sphere whenever you're doing anything extracurricular. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Will 51:07 Especially eating is what I find how Yeah, I get just stared down when I'm eating anything. It's just that's not.

Joe 51:13 It's not great. Yeah, growing up I was I was a cat person. Because my parents always had cats. They still have lots of cats. They just rescued a stray cat the other day that had a sorry listeners but had a rectal prolapse. Oh, no, that's the correct word. It is. So

Stephen Bradford Long 51:29 I was thinking actually funny. You mentioned that because I was actually thinking, Oh, that's what's going to happen with that four pound bag. But I was like, No, that's indecent.

Joe 51:43 What are the odds? I'm coming back around. Yeah. I'm taking it easy. All right, I'm taking a tz here.

Stephen Bradford Long 51:50 So you're not just inhaling the entire bag all at once.

Joe 51:56 I'm trying not to I don't want you to prolapse. But I'm an Islander. I'm a dog man. Now, dog boy.

Will 52:01 Yeah, you made the switch. Yeah,

Joe 52:02 I made the switch.

Will 52:04 Okay, so I'm gonna do my thing and bring it back to Tom Noonan. I know my role, and it is to bring it back to Tom Noonan, because I wasn't quite done. Just loving on Tom Noonan. I'm sorry. And then I derailed it. No, no, no. And the techies used to help these derailed it. But I was gonna say, Joe, I liked the take that you gave of that character, that his sort of softness is kind of kind of genuine, as opposed to just just to make it creepy. Right? Yeah. I like that. And then also Tom Noonan is just I didn't I couldn't remember where I knew him from but I knew that I knew him. The first time I saw this movie. I was like, oh, it's that guy. I like that guy. The plate the two places that he showed up in my cinematic, you know experience where first off he played Frankenstein's monster in the Monster Squad. And I don't know if y'all have both seen that movie. But it was it was a great movie as a first I must say it's a must see it was a movie I cried out when I was a very young child. So he was in that and then it's like, kind of like a horror horror Goonies. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then also, he was in a movie, a little movie with the former governor of the state of California called Last Action Hero. And I don't know if you guys saw that movie either.

Joe 53:23 I did, but it's been like, probably 25 years. He played a

Will 53:27 character called the Ripper in that movie that was just this over the top. Nonsense, evil bad guy with a big cool axe. And yeah, so anyway, yeah, those are Tom Noonan has a special place in my in my childhood. And it was it was fun to see him and yes, especially in such good

Joe 53:43 so yeah, I recently as in recently just a few days ago, watched Ty West very first movie called the roost. And it's probably the mumble goriest movie you could imagine it feels like it was shot like on a handycam like mini DVD kind of like Flipo open the screen type camera Sure. And it starred in you know, the movies about this vampire kind of thing. These these you know, 20 Somethings who like to talk a lot going on this road trip and then they you know, run into these bad stuff but before the movie starts, there's the sequence that feels kind of like a Tales from the Crypt of Tom Noonan, just walking into the end of in the frame and he's surrounded by like, it feels like he's walking like through the Haunted Mansion at Disney World or something interesting. And he's talking about the the fright you're about to see in like, the framing is like, like four by three but it's got like the old school like kind of rounded edges and there's flicker and like, so somehow Ty West had Tom Noonan open up his very first movie Wow. Which is pretty interesting. And after watching House of the devil he became am a much better filmmaker, not that the roost was bad, but it's just not an easy watch. Like, I feel like his later movies are. Yeah,

Will 55:06 that's interesting. So he sort of played in that original film sort of had the, I don't know if you remember the like 1930s. Frankenstein where they have, they have like a host as if it were a magical, exactly. Theater presentation. That's really, really cool. I like that a

Stephen Bradford Long 55:21 lot. I love that. Yeah.

Will 55:22 I would love to see that film. Was that was that a film? Correct

Joe 55:25 me if I'm wrong? Do was that a film that like you had a bit of trouble finding like you had to find an ad or something like that? Yeah. So I have the DVD if you want to borrow it. Yeah, may do it may do it, for sure. But that came out in like 2000. So this is the type of filmmaker where he was in film school. Sorry to bring it back to like that kind of nerd stuff. But he was in film school Ty West. And he I think he went to like, he didn't go to NYU because he didn't have enough money. So he went to like the more trade version of the school. And he finished the school. He made a few short films. And I forget the guy, but a friend of his and older kind of mentor who had some money basically said, I like your short films, I believe in you as a filmmaker. What is if the thing that's that's keeping you from making a movie is money, then here's $50,000 to make first movie shit. And he's like, so you have a script, right? He said, Yeah, I do. I have one that I really believe in. He's like, cool. And then he went home. And he called his buddy and said, I have to think of and write a script for Monday. And he did that was the roost and he made it and it was one of those things where it's like, if I don't take this opportunity to make a feature, I may never make one. Right. Yeah. And it worked turned out for him. You know, even though he did go through the whole cabin fever to ordeal. Sure. He became kind of like, you know, I think he'll he'll kind of be known as like this small little legend in the horror community, like at some point for the movies he made sure.

Stephen Bradford Long 56:56 I really hope that he that he has a rise like Mike Flanagan right? Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, Mike, I don't know, in my mind, and this is probably totally off base. But in my mind, Mike Flanagan is kind of similar where he's, he was kind of this more small time in the director doing really, really cool indie stuff. And then was given the the margin to do amazing stuff. And now directing, you know, The Haunting of Hill House. Yeah. Yeah. Doctor, sleep and whatnot. Yeah. And

Joe 57:29 I think I think the biggest difference though, is that Mike Flanagan's not afraid to go traditional emotional with his story arcs. That's true. Interesting. And I don't know that I'm gonna we're going to see. I almost think Ty West is going to be a little too cool for school, if that makes sense to do that. But Mike Flanagan's, like, What

Will 57:51 do you mean by that? Like, sort of, like point of contact with that?

Joe 57:56 So I mean, think about HOUSE OF THE DEVIL like, it's, it's, it's all about atmosphere. It's about tone. It's about vibe. Yeah. It's almost more of a like a throwback, kind of pulpy kind of thing. It's like, even though somehow he figures out a way for you to kind of feel for this character. It's kind of like on a surface level. You don't know anything about her. Right, right. Mike Flanagan his his thing is like he's going to get, you know, you're going to learn a lot about these people. Yeah, you're gonna feel very kind of emotionally invested in these people, like Haunting of Hill House is a great example. Yeah. Because he has a lot of time to develop the character. Yeah. And you know, a lot of people say in the very last episode of Hill House, he goes full CW, and he kind of does with his music choice, and the plot but like, yeah, that's also kind of what's great about this guy is that like, he's like, he's okay to like, deliver you just just some feel good stuff, if that's what you need. But at the same time, like, he mixes it with the medicine, right, the more difficult stuff. Yeah, that's really interesting. I last episode of Hill House, we'll never negate the fact that that poor girl was hanging forever in eternity through that house. Right. Sorry, spoilers for Hill House, I guess. So. I'm

Will 59:13 curious. I don't know exactly what Ty West has coming up. But I'm curious if that's sort of the case. Right? If if, yeah, if it's kind of the thing where he will be? He will be what he is. I would I would love to see. I mean, it's kind of the thing where I would like to see films like he is has made become more, you know, write films, but yeah,

Joe 59:35 and not to like not not to say he's like Polanski or anything because like, I don't know that he's at that level. But there is a similarity between the way he makes a movie or like think of House of the devil versus Rosemary's Baby there. There's a lot of similarities in the way they're shot. Even in the the occultism. Yeah, that's a word. Yeah. Kind of even in In a similar way, right? Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:00:01 it's a very similar ending to Rosemary's Baby. Yeah, no, I mean, I loved it. My my brain is rapidly if you notice that I'm becoming quieter and quieter through the show, it's just, it's just because I'm progressively getting more tired. Yeah.

Will 1:00:19 Well, one thing one thing, as long as we're talking about Ty was still one of the last bits that I have in my notes is, Ty West was 28 years old when he made this movie. And that makes me very mad. How are you going? A

Stephen Bradford Long 1:00:29 lot of people like me feel that way. There are there are so many people who make me wonder what the fuck I'm doing with my life, you know,

Joe 1:00:38 and there are just as many people who like made their first like, groundbreaking feature at the age of 50. You know what I mean? Sure, sure. But it's so frustrating. Like, you know, he made the roost at 22. It's not a very good movie, but you know, 22 years old, like who?

Will 1:00:53 Like, what, what was I doing at 28?

Stephen Bradford Long 1:00:56 Nothing. And then there's a and then there's Alan Rickman, who I think didn't get his break until like middle age.

Will 1:01:04 I believe you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Was Was diehard, his sort of, sort of way in or something or anything? Yeah. Yeah. No, so that's a good point. But I'm still frustrated because I love this movie. And I'm like, 20 years old, like,

Joe 1:01:16 yeah, geez. So kind of as as we're winding down, I'll I'll throw, I'll throw out some some fun stuff just tonally or whatever, that anyone can, can comment on if they weren't sure. Um, so he chose to he chose to make the movie in like a colder atmosphere and like New England, it has a very kind of like, Yeah, John Carpenter, Stephen King kind of vibe in that sense. Yeah,

Will 1:01:39 just the cold weather.

Joe 1:01:41 The leaves kind of falling. It just feels kind of Halloween or maybe a little past Halloween, but there's just something about that, that like when you're watching this movie, like it doesn't feel hot. Like you're part of the comfort is like, you know, I could I could watch this with a blanket on and feel good, right?

Will 1:01:54 Yeah, yeah. No, I

Stephen Bradford Long 1:01:55 think that's absolutely right. It is very cozy.

Joe 1:01:58 So that that's a thing I really enjoyed. zooms. zooms are great. Yep. Freeze Frame freeze frame. unapologetic freeze frame. It's true. Boy retitle. Yeah, it's wonderful. The score is just like, so like, spooky and yeah, calm. And a lot of times. I just love the score. That's That's Jeff grace. Jeff Grace has scored. I think if most of if not all of his other movies. He did the innkeepers. He did in the valley violence. If you haven't seen that yet. That's hit Ty West version of a Western, which I would recommend seeing if you have it's nice. Yeah. And the other big thing is the straight up. exorcist flashes. Yes. So effective in this movie. And I think I'm really surprised at how effective it is. Because when the third act happens, you're already thinking, okay, nothing much has happened in this movie yet. Right? I'm not thinking that a lot of a lot has happened. And Joe, Bob will tell you, come on, everything's happening in this movie. Sure. But when you hit the third act like okay, she's tied up. It's creepy. There's lots of different shots and angles around her to kind of build that kinetic energy. She's surrounded by these super creepy people wearing these hoods, in addition to that, just the atmosphere is just completely different than than what we've seen prior. And then she really kind of quickly gets out of the ropes. And now she's just kind of out. Yeah. And then she's running, right? And then these big kind of music splash moments of these exorcist style frames. Yeah, just putting you the audience kind of inside of the head of the Samantha I thought was probably the most in a horror like kind of kinetic horror thing was probably the most effective thing. Yeah, for

Will 1:03:53 sure. No, I liked that a lot. I love this. The I like to flashes. I like the set piece. At the end, obviously a really nice, cool, creepy, creepy asset piece. I also like and I'm curious about your all's take on? Is that grandma at the end? Is that who she was there to babysit the

Joe 1:04:10 high range boss so yeah, I don't think so. I think

Will 1:04:13 so. I thought so as well, but just just seeing a strange face. Yeah, the same the same read that you guys had. But yeah, those little flash shots of that face? Very, very effective. Yeah. I like that a lot.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:04:24 And and the strobing moon. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Will 1:04:27 Yeah. And you have this sort of whole astrological angle that we didn't even really talk about that much. But that's that's a cool little plot bit that plays into some of the sort of

Joe 1:04:36 environmentalism that's going on. Yeah. And the fun little the news anchor bit at the end where it said, and then the the Eclipse exited faster than

Will 1:04:48 physically possible. Scientists say. Yeah.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:04:53 So quick question. Were either of you raised in evangelical settings. Yes, yes. Okay. Well, Did you grow up with people in the church warning you to, like, not go out, or to be really careful during, you know, the winter solstice and the summer solstice and the full moon and the Eclipse. And so, to that extent, that's when the witches are out and about maybe it was more pronounced in this area because Asheville is such a witchy place. Yeah, like I can promise you I am the least. I am not the most bizarre thing walking down the sure Nashville. Sure, sure. And so it is a very witchy pagan plays. Yeah. and has been for years and years. And so may I think it that had all the Christians or all the more evangelical Christians in my area, super spooked. And so they were they were always like, No, don't go driving up on the parkway at night. That's where they do their do their sacrificing. That's interesting. Yeah, no, this was this was very real for, for me, this was it was so real. And, you know, they would pray against the covenants, you know, they would have these prayer meetings and pray against the witch covenants during Halloween. I mean, just the craziest shit.

Will 1:06:11 Yeah, that's always so it's something that sort of sort of fascinating to me, because like in my in my day to day life, like I'm a religious studies scholar, I teach that like universities and stuff like that. And so it's always kind of fun to see these sort of representations like whether it's in House of the devil, the film, or whether it's in those examples that you're talking about from your actual life, like those folks, presumably, there is no consistent. It's not like the Christians under those particular Christians understanding of whatever this other is, whether it's Satan, Satanists, or witches or whatever, they presumably they don't think, oh, they have sort of a coherent metaphysics and doctrinal structure and all this stuff. It always seems to me just kind of a hodgepodge of any sort is a sort of a cultist, anything that seems weird or scary. We just kind of throw all that in a pot. It's all the same stuff, right?

Stephen Bradford Long 1:07:02 Yes. Well, my favorite example of that actually, is I've heard far right. People who I have been friends with in the past, yeah, talk about how there is a collusion between radical Islam and LGBT. Because they're both anti god. Oh, there is somehow a collusion between obvious LGBT activists connect the dots, man and ISIS. Yes. And it's so there are these bizarre? They they see these bizarre alignments of power where there are none. And they see these bizarre kind of alliances where there are none. And so suddenly, you know, the progressive humanists, and the witches are, are suddenly an allegiance? Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. It's all in group out group kind of thinking. And so that's all it is. The outgroups are the same entire outgroup it has Yeah, the entire outgroup just becomes this one gigantic, amorphous minutes.

Will 1:08:08 Sure. Yeah. And, I mean, if anything, sort of fundamentalist Islam in many of its manifestations is incredibly pro God. For anything. Right. Oh, intensely. So yeah, no, that so that's fascinating. And, and I always think that's interesting of sort of, yeah, don't go there. I mean, you talked about that example, is super fascinating, because it's sort of don't go there, because that's where the witches are, and also the satanists, and there's sort of, you know, I mean, it's lines up and they're also into astrology, because that's not us either. And so, all these kinds of things.

Joe 1:08:41 And you know, just to add icing on the cake right now, there are a lot of people who kind of feel like they've been given permission to go full throttle with those kinds of ideas. Sure.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:08:53 Okay, so here's the thing. I manage a grocery store. If I hear another goddamn redneck conspiracy theory about Coronavirus oh my goodness about the Coronavirus, which is how some people say it and that just fills me with such delight. Not not me. And that's okay. I mean, I you know, and actually, I shouldn't do that because I was just complaining previously on one of my shows about making fun of how people talk. So I want them to I want leftist rednecks just buttfucking each other. Yeah. And being pink commie leftist. You know, I want them on my side. I want to contaminate the entire world, including the redmax with degenerate leftism, that is my one mission in life. So I want to bring them on board. I don't want to push them away. Yeah. That said, there have been so many. It's gotten worse in the past week actually, at the store where it feels like every other person has been a conspiracy theorist of some stripe Yikes, every other I mean, it's been nuts. Shan and I'm like, I am not paid to deal with this right now. So like, I'm put into this weird awkward position at work of, of being on the job having to practice good customer service. And people wanting to talk to me about these crazy anti science delusions and just not being prepared for that. I do not know how to navigate Oh,

Will 1:10:31 that's all sorts of emotional labor that I imagine you are not compensated for.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:10:36 Oh, it's really like being a social worker. I mean, this. Yeah, this one. And people tell you things that are just entirely not consensual. Yeah, that yeah, that are really, some of it is really hilarious. Like this old woman came up to one of my cashiers the other day, and she's a bit batty. I think she did a bit too much acid back in the day, and never fully recovered. Sure. But she just out of the blue was like, you know, I slept with a lot of married men when I was your age. And then, and then a few days later, she came through my line when I was at the register, and she was like, so do you think we landed on the moon? Oh, my goodness. These are just that those are the normal conversations. Yeah. Those are the conversations when that that don't relate to the Coronavirus?

Will 1:11:28 Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's fast. Anyway,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:11:31 yeah, it's great. It's every day is an adventure.

Will 1:11:34 Yeah. So I mean, it's, it's, it's not to, you know, to be in my place again, and draw this back in. It's sort of, in that context, you're, you're dealing with the public day in and day out, it probably doesn't stretch your imagination that much. That's something like the Satanic Panic could happen, right? Where you No,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:11:51 not at all. It does not stretch my imagination at all. But also just knowing what I know about human psychology, and how group reinforces belief and how fragile our beliefs are, and how fragile the human mind is, you know, we think that we are this perfectly, that the mind is this perfectly clear window out onto reality, and it is the absolute opposite of that. It is, and we are so glitchy, and so prone to delusion, and we have to, we have to be so careful about what we believe. And even if we know all of that about the human mind, we are still prone. And so it so you know, just talking to all the people that I've talked to for the show, growing up in a fundamentalist religious household, and then working with the public. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm actually really alarmed by people who just keep saying, you know, by our fellow atheists, and secularists and humanists and whatnot, who just keeps saying, oh, you know, the religious right or radical religious, whatever, it's, it's dying. It's going away, you know, progress in humanity. And I'm like, you, you have zero understanding of how deeply ingrained glitches are in human nature. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, but that is, that is a topic for my show.

Will 1:13:27 Well, this is technically your show. So you know, that is, that is true. It is our shower show. Yeah, absolutely. Well, um, in the in the interest of of bringing our discussion about House of the devil in for a landing. Do you guys want to Steven, I don't know if you've heard this on our show. But typically, we will rate on a 10 point scale, at the end will rate whatever it is that we're discussing. So would you guys like to rate house of the devil?

Stephen Bradford Long 1:13:50 Sure. You go first. Cool. I need to think about this. Yeah. No, that sounds

Will 1:13:54 good. So I absolutely love this movie. It's one of my favorites. I think it's a we talked about all this, but I think it's vibey it's a good like, for me, it's like I work from home like I grade papers and prep lessons and this kind of thing. And so when I'm doing that stuff up, put something on the background, usually a movie, this is a great background movie, because it's not you know, it's not incredibly distracting because it is a sort of slow burn, it's atmospheric, etc. It has all this sort of, you know, Joe, you talked about this, it's sort of Halloweeny type scary and that's just that's the world I fucking live in. And it's spooky. Yes, exactly. And so all that said, I'm gonna read it highly. I'm not gonna give it a perfect 10 Because, you know, it's not my favorite movie of all time or anything. But I do love it. So I'm gonna I'm gonna land at a 7.5 out of 10. And this is another thing we do Steven, we always rate it in whatever type of item

Stephen Bradford Long 1:14:50 is with decimals. No, no, yeah. Okay.

Will 1:14:53 You can do decimals. You can do anything you want, but I went with a Exactly. Let's get very specific, so I'm going to give it I'm going to give it 7.5 out of 10. Corpses with their eyes gouged out. That's that's going to be what I'm going to call it. So yeah, so 7.5 out of 10 Good.

Joe 1:15:13 Okay, so I'll go next would be a little bit more time. So um, I so for me, I think the most problematic thing about a movie like this is just the kind of religious nature of it I guess. I've I've written a couple of features at this point and eventually I want to make my movie one day right and I have this this kind of paranormal kind of like almost demon possession movie in mind that I want to write. But you know, if you know if there's a demon in the movie, what does that what does that say about the what most people think of as Christianity or how they think of God and those types of things? Like Sure, I just, I just have some certain hang ups with right yeah, so and that sent like, if it if I could only look at this movie, like through the lens of just just fun, kind of spooky, Paul beef spook fest, then I would this this movie would be off the charts, but but because of that, that's my only hang up is that like, I'm not I guess my hang up is that I'm not 100% certain that he's like, just kind of like grinning and having fun with it. Not sure. I don't know if it's like, oh, well, you know, it has that implicit religious backdrop to it. Even if Yeah, I don't know what his thoughts on Satanism is. I guess there's my biggest hang up with it. Yeah, sure. And again, like, I give it my own lens, and my own lens is just fun, spooky, like, I can, you know, just kind of have fun with it. So in that sense, I'm gonna give it and Steven I always do this I always ramble on about how like oh, this is my hang up. This is my ramble. This is the rant I don't like about it. He's rambling on. But then I always like write it really high Yeah, yeah, I'm given an eight nine I'm given a

Stephen Bradford Long 1:17:06 in it's like an IGN review. Yeah, like their their most recent review of Animal Crossing New Horizons.

Joe 1:17:13 Yeah, no, I'm an Animal Crossing pocket camp guy myself. Okay, I'm having trouble with it though. It's the too much talking like I just want to just do stuff on it and that's I

Stephen Bradford Long 1:17:24 understand that yeah, they're talking in enough for me to for that one so you just need to get a switch and join the whole branch strange potential cool he's he's very

Joe 1:17:35 the switch the switches like you can't get it

Will 1:17:39 in prices right now. It's like settings for

Joe 1:17:41 nothing Caroni

Stephen Bradford Long 1:17:43 Thanks. Well, yes, join so when you're able to get a switch to join the NOC Colt, because he he's very Jim Jones, you know, like he's, he's like, if Jim Jones were a raccoon, you know, he has like that that button down shirt. He has kind of the body type of Jim Jones. And so, you know, whenever he does the morning announcements at the beginning of the game, you know, Jim Jones would always you know, wake up his people over the PA every morning at at Jonestown and that is what Nick does. That's what Tom knuck does overselling so hard. And so whenever I play it, I'm like, Oh, I'm in such a wonderful, adorable little coal. And maybe there's this game mechanic, you know, way down the line. where me and all of the anthropomorphic animals drink flavor aid. It wasn't Kool Aid. It was not Kool Aid. For the cult nerds out there. You fucking know this flavor aid and it ready to pay the price. Get it right. And so maybe down the road, the game is just going to end you know, Animal Crossing never ends but maybe that is how it finally ends is all of the inhabitants all of the adorable little animals. We all just gather in the town square. And drink flavor ate. At the mouth. Misery. Exactly. And shake and and, and then collapse in dog.

Joe 1:19:15 So I'll give it a eight out of 10 Eight out of 10 Extra anchovies. Excellent.

Will 1:19:26 I like that. Yeah, very good.

Joe 1:19:29 I'll be looking you up on Animal Crossing.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:19:31 Switch crate yes, you're hearing right in my eyes. Months come visit my island.

Joe 1:19:35 I heard Elijah Wood visits people on it.

Will 1:19:38 Oh wow. How fun

Stephen Bradford Long 1:19:39 How nice of him. He's spooky guy. He is a spooky guy. You know, you really need to do films produced by his company. True vision vision. You need to do Mandy you need to color out of space. That was one of the that was the other movie. I suggested. She was color out of space. But yeah, maybe maybe that can be another

Joe 1:19:59 I haven't seen Any episode I'm excited to see in the future. Yeah, maybe spectra division has done some other fun stuff that I'd like to cover soon, William Yeah. So yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:20:10 absolutely cool. Okay. Um, so with all that said, I so this is this is a great horror movie but it isn't my favorite horror movie and because of that, I will give it eight satanic brides with their wombs ripped out for for sacrifice.

Joe 1:20:30 That's excellent. Yes. Yeah. Now Joe, Bob was just so upset that she wasn't if this was if this was a authenticating movie she would be Nikki would be.

Will 1:20:40 It's true. It's very true.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:20:41 Not wrong. The movies during the 80s and 70s were so fucking degenerate. And I just watched I don't know if you're watching the new season of Joe Bob, but he just covered blood sucking

Will 1:20:55 bloodsucking free I started that but I have I started it

Stephen Bradford Long 1:20:58 but I haven't finished. You need to finish it. It's great.

Joe 1:21:02 I stopped Where Where? Where he was electrocuting the the woman on the table with the the through the nipples just complete degeneracy. But I think that's also like something that's what's comforting about this movie is that you can you can get all of the fun kind of ad stuff without just going

Stephen Bradford Long 1:21:21 out that degeneracy. You know, I am a degenerate. And so I want the I want the nipple electrocuting sure scene. I want that. Yeah. In every movie I want. That's why

Will 1:21:34 That's why you held back those two satanic brides with their wombs

Joe 1:21:39 jostling Donahue, come on. Which wasn't she just fantastic, right? Yeah, Yep, absolutely. She was great. Absolutely. And it's the type of movie where after like, the first time you see it you like you look her up to see Oh, I wonder what she looks like now that she's like, you know, 30 years old? Like, no, no, this movie was made just like 10 years ago.

Will 1:22:00 All right. Well, let me let me say thank you, Steven, for for coming on. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, I've loved it. Well, you will be on again soon, hopefully. And fantastic. We'll do some more crossovers. And

Stephen Bradford Long 1:22:12 I want I want you guys on my show as well to talk about who knows what will shake or

Will 1:22:18 something out? That sounds great. And also, thank you for having us on your show this time. Because technically, yeah, of course.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:22:23 It's my pleasure. Really. It just has to really it just has to do with the fact that I'm in a perpetual brain fog. And I just want to not have to edit a show. Totally. Yeah, that's really what his absolute well, so I am having you do all the labor. Love it. And then I will just release the show sounds great. Yeah, yeah, it works for me go

Joe 1:22:43 all about it. All right. Yeah, we're gonna make well. That's what I'm here for. I've edited one of this new podcast venture and

Will 1:22:52 conversations on the rails and I headed episodes. Those are my jobs. So yeah. All right. Cool. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Come back next time. And if you're one of Stephens listeners, go over and subscribe to ours as well. And if you're one of our listeners, go subscribe to sacred tension, because, you know, obviously,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:23:08 absolutely, also go to rock candy recordings.com and check out all of our other shows. We also have 11 D life and Bible bash, and bubble and squeak and more shows on the way so yeah, we have lots of really cool stuff.

Will 1:23:23 All right, Thanks.