Revision as of 18:08, 3 July 2021

Working transcript of the Might is Right 24-hour stream.

On Sept. 11, 2003, Doug Misicko, Shane Bugbee, and Shane's wife Amy Bugbee, also known as Amy Stocky, hosted a 24-hour Internet radio stream with guests and callers to mark the release of their new edition of Might Is Right by Arthur Desmond, then using the penname "Ragnar Redbeard".^[1]

Jump to guest: #Metzger

Full Audio

Archival footage supplied by archive.org

Promotion

Mephisto Media Update - September 9, 2003^[2]

Historic 24 Hour long "Might is Right" Broadcast!

Mephisto Media is sponsoring a historic 24 Hour broadcast on our internet radio affiliate RadioFreeSatan.com to celebrate the historic re-release of "Might is Right". This text, described as "literary dynamite" was written in 1898 by "Ragnar Redbeard" and served as one of the major influences for the Satanic Bible, and this edition includes an introduction by none other than Anton LaVey himself! Can you think of a more EVIL book for Mephisto Media to support? WE CAN'T! Starting exactly at Midnight EST on Radio Free Satan, a 24 hour broadcast will commense, hosted by Publisher Shane Bugbee, Illustrator Doug Mesner, and General Amy of the Television Ministry (tvisgod.com).

Live guests and celebrities! Contests and call-ins! FUN FOR THE ENTIRE EVIL FAMILY! Much of the material to be broadcast in this historic coverage has NEVER BEEN HEARD BEFORE and likely will NEVER BE HEARD AGAIN! Stay tuned to MephistoMedia.com, RadioFreeSatan.com, and evilnow.com for info!

Rumor has it that this edition of Might is Right will find its way into Mephisto Media's catalog before long, but we cannot confirm nor deny that at this time.

Be sure to tune in to RadioFreeSatan.com for this historic broadcast!

YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS IT!!!!! We promise you that!

Radio Free Satan Needs YOU!!!

Thanks to all of you who continue to donate to RadioFreeSatan.com!

Give yourselves a great EVIL big pat on the back for helping to disseminate PURE EVIL into the unsuspecting eardrums of corruptable innocents world-wide! We really appreciate everyone's help!

However, we're going to need to still raise more money each and every month to keep RFS on the air as Radio Free Satan is now entirely listener supported. Radio Free Satan needs YOUR help to continue to stay on the air, and to improve and expand it's service offerings. Find out more about donating to RFS, including why you should and how you can help at http://www.radiofreesatan.com/donate.html

New at MephistoMedia.com

Self-Description

Might Is Right 24 hr radio special.

SHOW 1: THREE RING RADIO PREMIERE 1ST SHOW EVER!!!!LIVE FOR 24 HOURS ON SEPT 11TH - To celebrate the premiere of my very own radio show & kick off my new reprinting of MIGHT IS RIGHT Me, My wife & Pal Doug put on a historic, 24 hour LIVE radio broadcast on September 11, 2003.*

The show will featured live guests, interviews, and music relating to the book, and the concept of Survival of the Fittest. Guests from many walks of life discussed Might Is Right, terrorism, and revolution! Show started on 9-11-03, from Midnight to Midnight 9-12-03 on radiofreesatan.com a true broadcast to end all broadcasts!

Here's some of the 24 hour 9/11 shows contents:

Never before released audio, music and madness! Anus Presley - the noise of the late, great Sverre Kristensen. Waco - Day 51. Unreleased and favorites from Charles Manson -- interviews, music, and monologues. A brief history of Might Is Right.

Hart Fisher, Vincent Crowley, Kenn Thomas of steam shovel press, Usurper, Eugene Robinson - The man that inspired the likes of Boyd Rice and Adam Parfrey! He's the Promethean Satanist according to LaVey!!! Rare recordings of Lydia Lunch, Jello Biafra and others.

White power, racialism, and reform with Tom Metzger and the artist formerly known as George Eric Hawthorne, of the band RAHOWA. Peter Gilmore from the COS talks 9-11, and we wind down with a never before heard interview with Boyd Rice and Thomas Thorn, conducted by Vadge Moore from the Dwarves.

Hour 1

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:00] Doug, well, Mike, things are OK, we're on. Amy? [00:00:05][4.7]

Amy Bugbee: [00:00:05] We are on. [00:00:06][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:07] Yeah -. [00:00:07][0.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:00:07] Unprepared and on [00:00:08][0.8]

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:10] We're unprepared and on. Doug? Doug's freezing up. [00:00:15][4.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:00:15] I'm not freezing up. [00:00:16][1.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:00:17] Here comes the train! [00:00:17][0.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:19] Yeah. You hear the train? [00:00:20][0.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:00:23] Can they hear the train? [00:00:23][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:26] I don't know. Well, you're tuning in to Radio Free Satan.com, special Might Is Right broadcast on 9/11. We sympathize with all the victims. We're here praying for them [00:00:38][12.1]

Doug Misicko: [00:00:40] On our knees. [00:00:40][0.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:00:42] Oh, yeah. [00:00:42][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:43] We're not laughing at the victims, ok? [00:00:45][1.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:00:45] We're laughing with them. Or for them. [00:00:47][1.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:00:52] This first thing we're going to do for you is we're going to play a little something where we hope you all go away. We just want to talk to ourselves, really. We really don't like people. But this next CD is going to play one song - it really is one song. It's Anus Presley. If you've never heard of Anus Presley, it's done by one of my good friends, old friend of mine. His name was Sverre Kristensen. He did a comic book for me, by the way. IDoEvilNow.com published some comic books, and books like Might Is Right. And it's like the most obscene comic book ever. You really got to look for it - Bad Pills. Someone else should do some talking, you fucking goofs. You see, Doug and Amy have not had their flops. [00:01:46][54.0]

Doug Misicko: [00:01:47] We're listening. [00:01:47][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:01:47] Listening to what, me? Yeah, but, you know, they're looking at my ass when I turn around. That's what they're impressed by. [00:01:52][4.8]

Unidentified: [00:01:59] All right, Rich, this one goes out to you. [00:02:01][2.1]

Voiceover: [00:02:04] ...Being what in this country would be called a nice guy. [00:02:07][2.7]

Shane Bugbee: [00:02:22] We're going to start that over because it didn't sound good. So pretend you didn't hear anything that you just heard and pretend, OK? Rich, this one's going out for you. [00:02:33][11.9]

Voiceover: [00:02:39] I think the greatest mistake that Adolf Hitler made was being what in this country would be called a nice guy....*unintelligible variety of audio recordings and noise* [00:02:44][5.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:42:50] Well, I guess we're back on the air. I'm eating a tomato right now, and I thought this. Doug? Now you're on, [00:43:05][14.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:43:06] I think the listening audience was expecting more. [00:43:08][2.3]

Amy Bugbee: [00:43:10] I think they're disappointed. [00:43:10][0.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:43:12] I know - I know the gentleman running Radio Free Satan wanted to hear that again. [00:43:17][4.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:43:18] I think you might want to play it again [00:43:19][1.4]

Shane Bugbee: [00:43:21] Yeah right now. Nah, we're joking. When we started, it was a bad introduction. I didn't introduct -introduct, introduct - I didn't introduce my friends here. [00:43:35][14.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:43:35] Or yourself. [00:43:35][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:43:40] Amy's my wife. She helped out a lot with Might Is Right. She was one of the main reasons we hooked up with Anton LeVey. She goes by the handle, the whore of horror -. [00:43:56][15.3]

Amy Bugbee: [00:43:56] Among others. [00:43:56][0.0]

[00:43:56] Jokes, among others, I don't want any jokes about my wife's a whore, OK. But she does a website called TVisGod.com. It's a fun Web site. And she's working on a website called The Whore of Horror. She writes some horror. [00:44:16][19.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:44:18] I guess that's it for me. [00:44:21][3.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:44:23] TV's God's good. David Spade tried to rape her once, sued - oh no, he didn't. [00:44:28][5.3]

Amy Bugbee: [00:44:29] He just threatened to sue me [00:44:30][1.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:44:34] And the other gentleman. Well, the only gentleman here is Doug. Good friend, Doug - what's your last name Doug? We just met him. [00:44:43][8.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:44:43] Mesner. [00:44:43][0.0]

[00:44:44] Yeah, Mesner. I get it confused. But Doug did the illustrations for Might Is Right. [00:44:50][6.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:44:51] They look great. [00:44:52][0.7]

Amy Bugbee: [00:44:52] F you can see them at EvilNow.com, a few of them. [00:44:56][4.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:44:56] Yeah. EvilNow.com has them up. And we ran into Doug in the strangest ways. It's crazy how we ran into Doug, but Doug had a friend that bought the rape book from me, drove all the way to Tennessee to pick it up because it didn't get to him in the mail quick enough, imagine that. I shipped stuff out really quick. If anyone out there's bought something from me, they know how quick I ship that, ok? [00:45:22][25.9]

Amy Bugbee: [00:45:23] How fast it arrives. [00:45:24][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [00:45:24] Yeah, it arrives really fast. And that's how we met Doug. [00:45:29][4.2]

Doug Misicko: [00:45:31] He gave you a notebook of mine, didn't he? [00:45:32][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:45:33] He gave what, opium? [00:45:33][0.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:45:34] A notebook. [00:45:35][0.6]

Amy Bugbee: [00:45:35] He just told us about you, I think. And then you came up with him and brought a note, a sketchbook. [00:45:39][4.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:45:41] All right. [00:45:42][0.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:45:42] Doug handed me - hey, listen to this. He handed me all of his original artwork and his notebooks. I can't find any of it, by the way. [00:45:48][5.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:45:48] All right. [00:45:48][0.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:45:48] I think it's being sold on eBay from someone else. [00:45:51][2.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:45:51] Oh, come on. [00:45:52][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:45:56] No, but Doug did some really nice artwork for it. It just came together really cool. There's so many stories that we have about Might Is Right and how it came about, and how special to us - that's not just what this radio show is about or what we're doing with the 24 hours. It's about a lot of things. We chose to do it. I chose to do it on 9/11. It's because it's a hype date, something people freak out about. It means absolutely nothing to me. I could care less how many buildings fall on fire and how many people die around me, as long as it's not me and my beautiful wife, [00:46:29][33.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:46:30] As long as it's a lot. [00:46:30][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:46:31] As long as Doug is OK for now. I don't care. So 9/11 means nothing to us, really, or me. It's just a hype date. [00:46:41][9.2]

Amy Bugbee: [00:46:41] And Shane. You should talk a little about you, Shane Bugbee. [00:46:44][3.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:46:46] Well, I'm playing with my nipples right now. I'm looking at my wife. Doug's watching me play with my nipples and it's fucked up. [00:46:52][6.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:46:53] It's only costing me five dollars. [00:46:54][1.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:46:55] So the gentleman at Radio Free Satan tells us we have five listeners, five whole listeners. And I do mean holes like wet, slimy holes. We tried to chase you away, but you stayed, you five. If there is any listeners and you instant message TVisGod9, I'm going, [00:47:13][17.6]

Amy Bugbee: [00:47:14] At AOL.com, I think it is. [00:47:14][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:47:14] Motherfucker. I know what it is. It's the message. [00:47:16][1.7]

Amy Bugbee: [00:47:18] Whatever. [00:47:18][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:47:19] Well, you guys can't talk over me. The mikes are going, you know, don't hear me, OK? No, listen. TVisGod - the instant message handle is TVIsGod9, nothing else. It is an AOL instant message. You can you can do that if you go in the chat group. Is that a chat group, Amy. What is it? [00:47:40][20.9]

Amy Bugbee: [00:47:40] Yes, it's the Radio Free Satan chat room. [00:47:42][2.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:47:43] If you go there, any listeners right now for the next ten minutes that email us an address, will get a free Might Is Right T-shirt. I just want to see if Rich's - what happened? [00:47:55][11.6]

Amy Bugbee: [00:47:57] My computer just froze. Hold that thought. [00:48:00][2.8]

Shane Bugbee: [00:48:01] No, just email us then, whatever. I know what time it is. I know what time it is, nigga. No, I don't want to have this motherfucker. Hand me my repo. No, really, if you just email us or go to the, go to the chat group right now and email us an address, email the radio free Satan folks right now it's twelve fifty something somewhere. And email us right now, five - anyone who's listening will send you a free Might Is Right T-shirt. [00:48:32][31.1]

Doug Misicko: [00:48:32] Sean, Monty, you motherfuckers, you better be among the five. [00:48:35][3.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:48:36] Sean and Monty were not, fucking - [00:48:38][1.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:48:38] Sean and Monty. [00:48:39][0.5]

Shane Bugbee: [00:48:40] Sean. I say we just change those bitches' names to Sean Monty and Monty Sean. Motherfuckers if you guys ain't out there - [00:48:48][8.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:48:49] like the queers John Fitzsimmons and Simmons Fitzjohn. [00:48:51][2.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:48:52] We're coming to get you, Sean Monty. [00:48:53][1.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:48:54] They might want to email someone else because my computer's totally down now. [00:48:57][3.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:48:58] Speak into the mic, woman, I can't hear you, say it. [00:49:01][2.9]

Amy Bugbee: [00:49:02] They might want to email someone else, might want to give a different email address, because my computer's totally done, it's toast. [00:49:08][6.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:49:09] Really? [00:49:09][0.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:49:10] It's yeah, well, I had unplug it [00:49:12][2.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:49:13] So it'll start up again in a couple hours? [00:49:14][1.6]

Amy Bugbee: [00:49:15] In a couple hours. [00:49:15][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:49:17] Well, you know what? My email address is, Shane13. Only have your bitches and wives and mothers email me. No guys. [00:49:26][8.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:49:27] Shane13@Ameritech.net. [00:49:28][1.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:49:29] That's right. Shane 13@Ameritech.net. You email me next five minutes and I will - I'll hook you up. Hook ya up, nigga. Oh. Come on Doug, say something. man. Doug has one eye, how'd that happen, Doug? [00:49:48][18.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:49:49] I lost one somewhere along the way. [00:49:51][1.9]

Shane Bugbee: [00:49:55] I tell you for a one-eyed guy this guy fucking gets the pussy, ok? He picks up the chicks, let me tell ya, OK? [00:50:00][5.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:50:01] They're not true. [00:50:01][0.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:50:03] So do you have a glass eye? [00:50:03][0.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:50:05] No, it's - would it look this fucked-up if it was a glass eye? [00:50:08][3.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:50:08] Well, we don't know who you're going to. [00:50:09][0.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:50:13] I wouldn't make them make it opaque or cloudy or any shit like that? No, it's the real deal. [00:50:16][3.5]

Amy Bugbee: [00:50:17] You could get a glass one with like the American flag on it or something. [00:50:20][2.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:50:21] No. Yeah, I guess I could, but I won't. I wanted to keep the original parts. They offered to take it out but, didn't happen. It's got a silicone ring around it though. [00:50:31][10.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:50:34] You know, that's really why we played that - oh, the silicone ring. The silicone ring? [00:50:37][3.9]

Amy Bugbee: [00:50:40] Silicone ring hole! [00:50:40][0.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:50:42] I need one of those silicone rings when Amy goes to her mother's house. [00:50:45][3.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:50:46] Oh, really? [00:50:47][1.1]

Doug Misicko: [00:50:49] For what? [00:50:49][0.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:50:51] Masturbation. Fucking. Oh, it's better than when I - you know, I take like a tomato and start fucking it or something and, you know - I heat the tomato up in the microwave and - [00:50:59][7.9]

Amy Bugbee: [00:51:01] In Chicago in like the 1880s, there was a whorehouse called the Everleigh Club and they were supposed to have a whore for every need. And there was a woman there with one eye. She had a glass eye and she could take out her glass eye and guys could fuck the the hole. [00:51:16][15.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:51:18] Really. [00:51:18][0.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:51:19] Imagine that in the 1880s. Yeah. [00:51:22][2.8]

Shane Bugbee: [00:51:26] You like that? [00:51:26][0.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:51:28] I don't know, little warm substance on the brain. I don't know what that would do for you. [00:51:31][2.7]

Amy Bugbee: [00:51:33] She was quite popular. [00:51:34][1.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:51:36] Well, Saka tells us a lot of women use that warm substance for, what was it? [00:51:43][6.3]

Amy Bugbee: [00:51:43] Facials. [00:51:43][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:51:44] Yeah, facials, not literally facial, but like they rub it into their wrinkles. [00:51:47][2.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:51:47] Because they call it a facial. [00:51:48][0.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:51:51] They say it keeps their - it keeps their skin good. [00:51:51][0.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:51:54] Then how come my cock is wrinkly? [00:51:55][1.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:51:56] Oh, Doug has just blown a hole in that theory. [00:51:59][3.0]

Doug Misicko: [00:52:03] Answer me that. [00:52:04][0.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:52:05] Well there's a total difference in the face and the dick. [00:52:07][2.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:52:11] I don't know. I know some dick-faced motherfuckers. [00:52:12][0.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:52:16] You know, if anyone knows, you know. [00:52:17][1.5]

Amy Bugbee: [00:52:17] if it's wrinkly, does that mean you're not circumcised? [00:52:20][2.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:52:21] Your friends aren't listening Doug, no one's listening. No one has emailed me for a free Might is Right T-shirt. And you see, that's why I play that noise music and I play stuff. I just - I want to give away the stuff, I told Rich, I'd give away stuff. But I'm a cheap bastard, so fuck you all. [00:52:33][12.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:52:35] I'll take a year to get to you anyway. [00:52:37][2.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:52:38] Oh, nice Amy. Real nice. Real fucking nice. You're better? You can do better? [00:52:47][8.7]

Amy Bugbee: [00:52:47] What's your oldest order you were bragging about the other day? [00:52:50][2.9]

Shane Bugbee: [00:52:52] Two years. Two years. They've been waiting, but they wait proudly. They wait. They wait. And wait. [00:52:59][7.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:00] Now, they got it, did they? [00:53:01][1.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:02] No. [00:53:02][0.0]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:03] OK, two years and counting. [00:53:05][2.1]

[00:53:06] No, that's the oldest Might Is Right order I have on backorder and the guy - you know, I wish I could remember his name, he's a really cool guy. [00:53:12][6.2]

Amy Bugbee: [00:53:12] Is it. George in Chicago Ridge. [00:53:16][3.1]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:16] Oh no, no. This guy's from Canada - Jerod or something - he's a Church of Satan member and he's a really cool guy. And I'm telling you, [00:53:23][6.7]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:23] Jared Staff? [00:53:24][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:25] That's him! [00:53:25][0.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:25] Is it? [00:53:26][0.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:26] Because that's the guy that Ken Hamblin Show was telling me he was was looking, was calling the producer asking about my interview and shit. [00:53:33][6.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:34] Yeah, that's him! [00:53:34][0.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:34] All right. [00:53:35][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:35] Well, Jared's dad. [00:53:36][0.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:36] Yeah, he's hardcore. Jared's dad. He's one of our listeners. This one goes out to you, buddy. [00:53:41][5.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:42] Jared, we're going to smear our own semen and blood and piss in that book just for you, Jared. For two years of waiting, [00:53:47][5.7]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:49] I think he called the Ken Hamblin Show more than once, because the producer made a point of mentioning it to me. [00:53:54][5.7]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:55] Let's explain to the simpletons who can handle this, OK? [00:53:58][3.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:53:58] Ken Hamblin [00:53:58][0.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:53:59] He's the Black Avenger [00:54:00][0.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:54:00] and syndicated radio show host [00:54:02][1.5]

Shane Bugbee: [00:54:03] Doug and the Black Avenger are like, two peas in a pod [00:54:06][2.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:54:06] Like brothers. [00:54:06][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:54:08] Doug did an interview on his his syndicated nigger talk show. Nah, I'm joking. You say Black Avenger. I said Nigger Avenger. No joke. No one's listening. [00:54:18][10.3]

Doug Misicko: [00:54:18] No, Shane gave me the number to the producer, the Ken Hamblin Show, told me to give him a call. I asked, What kind of show is this? He said, Why don't you ask him those kinds of questions? So I called him up, and this guy said, Can I have you on at 5:30? And I said, OK, so then I go and check out the Ken Hamblin website and I see he's the Black Avenger, some neoconservative in support of, I don't know. [00:54:41][23.5]

Shane Bugbee: [00:54:42] Oh, God. Guess what? Guess who just emailed me. [00:54:44][2.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:54:45] Jared Staff. [00:54:45][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [00:54:46] How'd you guess? [00:54:46][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [00:54:48] Jared Staff, you monster. You get no t-shirt though, that's because you waited two years. We're going to send you a ripped one, just to disappoint you more. [00:54:55][6.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:54:56] In five years. [00:54:57][0.4]

Amy Bugbee: [00:54:59] That was the great thing about Shane. When we were first married, we would have these mail order people that would send in orders and they'd be waiting months and months to get their stuff. And there'd be people who weren't used to it who would call, and write, and harangue -. [00:55:13][14.7]

Doug Misicko: [00:55:14] We're losing our bearings, our focus. We're going to lose Jared Staff. [00:55:17][3.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:55:18] I just got an email from Rich and he said, we lost our one nigger listener because I said, nigger. Well, fuck you, you fucking Jew cocksucker, motherfucking fag. Now, we lost a Jew and a fag too! We only got one listener. Jared, I hope you weren't Jew, nigger, or fag. [00:55:32][13.7]

Doug Misicko: [00:55:34] No, no. But the talk show. Yeah, he was a black neoconservative. Thought he would attack me- [00:55:41][7.2]

Shane Bugbee: [00:55:42] Who, the Black Avenger? [00:55:43][0.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:55:43] Yeah, but he was cool. He liked me. Yeah. They want to have me back on. [00:55:49][5.5]

Shane Bugbee: [00:55:49] He agreed with you that ugly people are just born to be ugly and just, suffer the consequences. [00:55:52][2.7]

Amy Bugbee: [00:55:52] They fail. [00:55:53][0.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:55:54] They fail? [00:55:54][0.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:55:57] Well ugly people never get ahead, isn't that what you said? [00:56:00][3.2]

Doug Misicko: [00:56:00] Yeah. They said nobody, nobody gives up their seat on the bus for an ugly person. The ugly person stands. He was the one. He was the one when he was trying to bait me to say something like that. He was the one who said that ugly people who are tested, genetically tested and are shown that they're going to have an ugly child should not be allowed to reproduce. And I thought that was pretty cool of him. But I didn't have to say it, was the best part. And to think I got called back. And plus, to top it off, I didn't even get an angry response. The producer said, I got - I generated a lot of interest, according to him. [00:56:44][43.3]

Amy Bugbee: [00:56:45] Positive response. [00:56:45][0.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:56:46] Yeah, he he had at least five listeners, I think Ken Hamblin. [00:56:51][5.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:56:53] You didn't chase any away? [00:56:54][0.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:56:54] No, til he played Anus Presley, then it was done. [00:56:57][3.6]

Amy Bugbee: [00:56:58] Yeah, that's his favorite band. [00:56:59][0.9]

Shane Bugbee: [00:57:00] That CD we played, I played earlier. I didn't explain. I didn't think I explained myself well enough. But this guy was a really talented artist and he's dead now. And he died of leukemia. And, you know, he was the biggest believer in Might Is Right, and stuff. Really loved the book. And he really you know, I really played the CD just to irritate and drive people away and see who the strongest were. Only the strong survive that CD, because I hate noise music really bad. And I figured if I hate it, I just pass along that to you. But Sverre was a real good guy, you should look his work up some time. His work is really, really some of the best stuff you're ever going to see. Really blew me away when I first saw it. I remember calling them to publish his comic book and it was just. I caught him about six months before he died, so I was lucky I don't have to pay him. [00:57:54][53.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:57:55] Why don't you read us Jared's e-mail? [00:57:57][1.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:57:58] Why don't you read Gerard's email? [00:57:59][0.7]

Doug Misicko: [00:58:00] Because I can't see it from here. [00:58:01][0.9]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:01] he's just asking for a handout. Looking for a handout. [00:58:05][3.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:58:07] It's always the same. [00:58:07][0.5]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:08] Looking for a free T-shirt, that's it. That's it, that's it. Oh, Rich says things are picking up, keep it up, guys. [00:58:17][9.2]

Doug Misicko: [00:58:18] Picking up. What does that mean? [00:58:19][1.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:20] I don't know, picking up. [00:58:22][2.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:58:23] He's getting an erection. [00:58:23][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:24] I think he said - yeah. That's why he's like keep it up, guys. Rich, put your pants on, Rich. [00:58:29][4.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:58:31] So whose approval are we getting now? [00:58:32][1.5]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:34] Spicks. [00:58:34][0.0]

Amy Bugbee: [00:58:34] Yeah. How's our approval rating? [00:58:36][1.3]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:37] Yeah, well, well Rich? You know, you can always call us. [00:58:43][6.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:58:45] He can be our first guest. [00:58:46][1.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:47] Hello? Is this thing on? Hello? I think we're off the air. I don't hear anything. Hello? [00:58:54][6.6]

Doug Misicko: [00:58:55] You don't have the headsets on. [00:58:56][1.1]

Shane Bugbee: [00:58:57] Oh, that's it. Oh, yeah, we still got twenty three hours to go. [00:59:00][3.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:59:01] What have we gotten ourselves into? [00:59:03][1.4]

Doug Misicko: [00:59:04] Have Jared call in, I want to talk to Jared. He's piqued my curiosity. Now the motherfucker keeps up on this shit. [00:59:10][6.1]

Amy Bugbee: [00:59:10] You can dial us up! [00:59:11][1.0]

Shane Bugbee: [00:59:12] Hey, put your pants back on, Jared. Don't call, he's got his pants off. Jared - oh, Jared's website. Let me get you that website. It's really cool, his emails take a fucking - you just time to open up because it's so - OK, he's got two websites. One is Jared staff and he spells it like goth guys. So maybe J-E-R-O-D-S-T-A-A-F, dot com and then the other one is S-T-A-A-F, only, dot com. Jared, you should post something up on that Radio Free Satan community board, or whatever it is, and give yourself a plug [00:59:52][39.9]

Doug Misicko: [00:59:53] Give them a number. We got to ask him about him. [00:59:54][1.8]

Doug Misicko: [00:59:55] Give him a number. Jared, you know, I'll email your number and you can call me, Jared. [00:59:58][3.5]

Doug Misicko: [00:59:59] There you go. [00:59:59][0.3]

Hour 2

Amy Bugbee: [01:00:00] Are you afraid the phone lines will be swamped if we say the number over the air? [01:00:03][3.5]

Shane Bugbee: [01:00:04] Yeah, no, I'm just afraid Rich might call us. Oh! I don't think Rich has us on the air anymore. Well, the real reason we play that noise CD is we wanted to promote stuff. [01:00:21][16.9]

Doug Misicko: [01:00:22] And there's a lot of stuff on that CD, yeah,. [01:00:26][3.7]

Amy Bugbee: [01:00:27] It's very promotional stuff. [01:00:27][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [01:00:28] We wanted to drive Rich away, so he wasn't listening so we could really. [01:00:31][2.5]

Amy Bugbee: [01:00:32] So we don't have to run the disclaimer. [01:00:33][1.2]

Shane Bugbee: [01:00:34] Yeah, we didn't want to run that disclaimer, but we're going to run it. All right, Jerod Staff, call if you dare. [01:00:42][8.1]

Amy Bugbee: [01:00:45] We'll try to figure out the phones. [01:00:45][0.9]

Shane Bugbee: [01:00:47] Yeah, we'll try. And for the rest of you -. [01:00:50][2.7]

Doug Misicko: [01:00:50] It looks fairly basic. [01:00:52][2.5]

Shane Bugbee: [01:00:54] And for the rest of you, go to hell. [01:00:56][1.7]

Doug Misicko: [01:00:58] Yeah. [01:00:58][0.0]

Voiceover: [01:01:01] Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed in this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of Radio Free Satan or Mephisto Media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know, and some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot. And we refuse to be held responsible for your stupidity. In short, don't try this at home or at all. [01:01:41][39.9]

Voiceover: [01:01:42] OK, Radio Free Satan promo, here we go. This is about as close to being spoonfed Satanism as you're going to get. Now you are listening to the funky, funky sound of Radio Free Satan, daddy-o. Hello, this is David Harris and you are listening to Radio Free Satan, the uncomfortable alternative. This is Reverend Paradise from Heavy Metal Memories. Straight from hell. If you play this message backwards, it sounds like you are listening to Radio Free Satan. Honest. You think you know me, but you only know my name, either damn fine music or infernal voice. Which is just what you're about to hear. The hellbound sounds, showcasing the evil powers of rock 'n roll music. The soundtrack of rebellion. The best damn music on the Internet. On Radio Free Satan.com. [01:03:04][82.2]

Unidentified: [01:03:11] Sounds like fun. So while I put my pants back on, I'm going to throw some rock at you. Hail Satan. Horns up. [01:03:19][7.5]

Voiceover: [01:03:26] I'm not wearing any pants. Film at -. [01:03:29][2.5]

[01:03:29] Fantastic, I wanted to tell you as well that I lost [01:03:34][5.4]

Shane Bugbee: [01:03:37] Jared, shh. [01:03:37][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [01:03:38] Now we're on the air again. And Jared did call in. [01:03:42][3.5]

Shane Bugbee: [01:03:43] Speak Jared. [01:03:46][2.3]

Amy Bugbee: [01:03:48] How are you doing? [01:03:48][0.5]

Jared Staaf: [01:03:49] Fantastic. It's very cold up here in Canada. Excellent climate for Vikings. [01:03:54][5.3]

Shane Bugbee: [01:03:56] Wow. So, Jared, [01:03:58][1.4]

Doug Misicko: [01:03:59] let's not take this on a low moral plane. [01:04:00][1.7]

[01:04:02] Oh! Hey, Amy's a Viking. [01:04:04][2.7]

Jared Staaf: [01:04:05] I think part of the problem is that I, I, I've lost connection with RadioFreeSatan.com on our computer for some reason. I keep trying to get back into it and I can't get back into it. [01:04:15][10.5]

Doug Misicko: [01:04:16] Oh, maybe they pulled the plug. [01:04:17][0.9]

Amy Bugbee: [01:04:18] Really. [01:04:18][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [01:04:24] Just talk to Jared, please. Hey, Jared, can you hear me? [01:04:26][2.7]

Doug Misicko: [01:04:30] Can he hear you? [01:04:31][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [01:04:31] Jared, can you hear me? Jared, Jared, can you hear me, Jared? [01:04:38][7.0]

Shane Bugbee: [01:04:40] All right. I think Jared's - [disconnect tone]. [01:04:46][6.1]

Doug Misicko: [01:04:46] Aw, come on. [01:04:46][0.0]

Shane Bugbee: [01:04:48] Hey, this is all Rich's fault. The fucking guy running Radio Free Satan, I don't know about this. [01:04:54][5.7]

Amy Bugbee: [01:04:54] Well, maybe he'll call back. I'll take down the receiver button while we're waiting. [01:05:00][6.0]

Doug Misicko: [01:05:00] Well, we can we can issue a plea to him because apparently he can't sign on. [01:05:05][4.4]

Amy Bugbee: [01:05:05] Yeah, Rich, I think we're losing we're losing the richeners because - because he's getting signed off. You heard him. He said he quit listening because he got signed off and he can't sign back on. It's the government plot against us. [01:05:18][13.1]

Doug Misicko: [01:05:19] And you know what they say. If one person says that, there's a hundred others who haven't called in to tell us that. [01:05:24][4.7]

Shane Bugbee: [01:05:25] I don't even think anyone can hear us, okay? [01:05:26][1.3]

Amy Bugbee: [01:05:27] Maybe there's just so many listeners, it's overloaded on the server. [01:05:29][2.7]

Shane Bugbee: [01:05:30] I think that's what is the problem - I think that's what the problem is, Rich. That noise music drives the people to your servers so massively they are getting shoved away by some electronic gremlin [01:05:41][10.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:05:42] Noise is huge. When we had Boyd Rice play the expo, he had four fans that showed up! [01:05:48][5.5]

Shane Bugbee: [01:05:50] Four, count 'em, four! And he wanted to get paid. Now the cocksucker goes around the country telling people, I don't pay him. He won't call me and tell me. I invited him out here tonight to tell me. And the motherfucker doesn't say a thing, does he? I think Boyd Rice is going to be my bitch someday, okay? Soon. You hear me, Mr. Rice? A Roni, San Franciscan treat? I'm coming for you, buddy. All right, you guys can talk a little. [01:06:16][25.5]

Amy Bugbee: [01:06:16] All right, well, maybe Jared will call back. [01:06:18][1.6]

Shane Bugbee: [01:06:19] Jared, let everyone know he's the guy in the Subway commercials. [01:06:22][2.8]

Doug Misicko: [01:06:24] Big moment, too, and what happened? [01:06:25][0.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:06:25] He was so excited. I feel so bad for him. [01:06:28][2.8]

Doug Misicko: [01:06:28] He said something about Vikings. He was a little quiet to me [01:06:30][1.6]

Amy Bugbee: [01:06:31] That was the end of it for him. [01:06:32][1.2]

Doug Misicko: [01:06:33] Sorry, Jared. We're working out our kinks, in more than one way, and it just happened, man, that just happened. Sorry about that. We tried to make shit happen. It'll happen. I did send him an email. Listen, you keep barking out orders and you're going to have nothing to bark with, buddy. [01:06:52][18.6]

Doug Misicko: [01:06:53] All right. Just send that e-mail. [01:06:53][0.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:06:54] You know, this radio show is supposed to kick off Shane's new Radio Free Satan weekly radio show. That'll be, how long will it be Shane, an hour? [01:07:05][11.3]

Shane Bugbee: [01:07:05] Three, three, six hours. Every day. I was going to talk about what I'm watching on TV, Rich is really into that shit. [01:07:12][6.4]

Amy Bugbee: [01:07:12] So rather than start it with a short show to get used to it, Shane has decided to start it with a 24 hour live broadcast. So by the end, we should be fist fighting and drooling and making no sense. [01:07:26][14.1]

Doug Misicko: [01:07:27] Well, the three of us haven't slept to begin with anyways, and we're just getting started. [01:07:30][3.4]

Shane Bugbee: [01:07:31] Yeah. So wait till we start drinking. But what we have coming up here is another hour long piece. It's it's really. It's a very emotional thing, Waco. It's about Waco and what does it have to do with 9/11 and Might Is Right? Well, not a lot, except there was a burning building. A lot of kids got killed. I feel bad for the people at Waco, almost. You know, just because the government just went in and squashed people. I would like to see the government squashed once in a while by people. So I don't know if I felt bad for them, but it's a good, a good little piece of tape that we have and no one's heard it. It's unreleased. We - me and my wife Amy here - whore that she is, of horror. You see where we get a divorce, we go to court, she says, he called me a whore! I say, the fucking girl, has got a website that says she's a whore! No, but we went down to Waco, we went down to Waco and we went and met with the survivor and half his body was burned. And it was really, I don't know, really compelling, the whole thing being there and standing on that ground and watching, looking at like little toys that were burned into the ground with tank tracks on top of them. It was beautiful in its own special way, you know, seeing little kids, fingernail still there, stuff like that was fucked up. You know, if I could only have seen Auschwitz fresh, been a little similar. [01:09:04][92.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:09:05] A great movie to get is Waco Rules of Engagement. That really shows what happened there. And it's just such a tragedy. And it's also what inspired the Oklahoma City bombing. [01:09:17][11.3]

Shane Bugbee: [01:09:17] Yeah, exactly. [01:09:18][0.7]

Doug Misicko: [01:09:19] For a while, some of Koresh's adherents who are still alive and still believed in the cause or whatever. They had a website and they'd send you free shit if you sent them an email. I don't know if they do that anymore, but they'd send you a book, "The Seven Seals." [01:09:35][16.5]

Shane Bugbee: [01:09:36] Yeah, I got one. [01:09:37][0.6]

Doug Misicko: [01:09:37] Yeah, I got one too. A big Q and A book and it talks about, you know, Koresh, his interpretation of the Bible or whatever. It was a bunch of bullshit and it's hard to get through. [01:09:48][11.1]

Shane Bugbee: [01:09:48] They don't do it for free anymore, but they do it for like five bucks. It's worth it though. It's really crazy shit, that's for sure. [01:09:53][4.9]

Amy Bugbee: [01:09:54] Well, when we went there, we went to the visitor's center and we met with one of the survivors and his mother. And I forgot what I was going to say. [01:10:04][9.5]

Shane Bugbee: [01:10:04] Yeah, we got twenty three hours now. But I'll tell you, the funny thing about them was that we did an interview with them and got some tapes off them. Like I said, no one's heard this stuff, but it was really their religion. It's about Christianity and all this bullshit. But I appreciated that they were just calling for Armageddon. They wanted the end of the world. They really were into the end of the world. Is that what you're going to talk about? [01:10:30][26.0]

Amy Bugbee: [01:10:30] Yes, that's what I was going to say. [01:10:32][1.3]

Shane Bugbee: [01:10:32] They said, they said we want everything destroyed because the chosen, the God's people will rise above the flames. And I'm all with that. You know, I don't - I'm not for God's people, but I'm just for burning the place down. Strongest survive. [01:10:47][15.0]

Amy Bugbee: [01:10:47] Well, we should definitely make a drinking game or something for every time one of us loses our train of thought, that would be good. But the great thing was when we went down to Waco and we were interviewing them on video and the video, I would stop the video to change the video or get a different angle. And they would talk really calmly and, you know, brotherly love and this and that. And then when the camera was off, all of a sudden they were like Nazis, you know, they hated everyone. They hated everyone that didn't. They just believed everyone should be dead who didn't agree with their beliefs. And I thought that was really admirable. [01:11:27][40.0]

Doug Misicko: [01:11:29] Right. Well, it becomes easier when they're insulated as a cult. Everybody else becomes the enemy. Everybody who thinks differently. [01:11:38][8.9]

Amy Bugbee: [01:11:39] Exactly. But they were really fascinating and very friendly and very accommodating. We were there the day before Timothy McVeigh was executed and there were a lot of reporters there and stuff, and they really took the time to talk to us. So that was nice. It's a shame. Of course, I don't have the video, my three hour interview, video -. [01:12:01][21.4]

Doug Misicko: [01:12:01] What happened to that three hour interview? [01:12:03][2.4]

Amy Bugbee: [01:12:05] It's a sad long story, but we were doing -. [01:12:12][7.3]

Doug Misicko: [01:12:12] Twenty three hours. [01:12:12][0.3]

Amy Bugbee: [01:12:13] We were - Shane and myself and a number of artists that Shane publishes because I don't know our listeners, our five listeners may or may not know that. Shane founded Michael Hunt Publishing and he's done a lot of stuff - [01:12:32][19.0]

Shane Bugbee: [01:12:33] I founded everything that you are even touching in your house. I founded it all [01:12:36][3.4]

Amy Bugbee: [01:12:38] Over the last 15 years or so he's done magazines and books and videos. CDs and all kinds of stuff, extremely controversial stuff and really very important stuff, and we had done this tour, the Angry White Male Tour. And I had taped somewhere around 30 hours of performance and interviews. I had an interview with Max Hardcore. I had great interviews with incredible people. I had a guy slip slide through 20 feet of vomit. I mean, I just had incredible stuff. I had Jim Goad freak out and have a huge argument with Shane live on video. [01:13:22][43.9]

Amy Bugbee: [01:13:22] Oh, no, no, no, no. You had Jim Goad walking away from me. [01:13:26][3.6]

Amy Bugbee: [01:13:26] That's right. [01:13:26][0.3]

Shane Bugbee: [01:13:27] He said that fucking old fucking man. And I hope you're listening bitch, you're my bitch. You and Boyd Rice, I'd fuck you both at the same time. [01:13:33][6.1]

Doug Misicko: [01:13:33] Give us a call! [01:13:34][0.4]

Shane Bugbee: [01:13:35] Give us a call, punk! The number. I'll give you the number. You email me motherfucker. But I'll tell you one thing. Yeah. We get in a fight. He goes, 'I'm going to knock your block off! If I weren't on parole, I'd knock your block off!' And I said, I ain't telling anybody. And he got so angry, he ran out of the room, got on a plane and left Las Vegas the same night. Now, that is a fucking pussy to me. I don't give a fuck. Where I come from, that's a fucking pussy. [01:13:59][24.2]

Amy Bugbee: [01:13:59] You know, he was just out of crack. [01:14:00][0.9]

Shane Bugbee: [01:14:01] Yeah, he's a crack addict and he's a fucking disappointment. He fucked four hundred pound niggers on a road. He's disgusting, he's a disgusting person. I could go on all day. Don't ever bring that guy's name up. I'm going to get so angry I'm gonna smash things. [01:14:12][10.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:14:12] OK, well anyway, so we got back from the airport and we were on this flight that almost crashed and it was horrible and I was puking my guts out on the plane. And then we took a cab home and we got everything out of the taxi and we brought it all in the house. And my video bag was there and we went upstairs to relax for a little bit. And then about an hour later, we went down to get the videos, to start watching them. And they were gone. Everything was gone. So stolen. They must have been stolen out of our door. Someone must have come in. Now, I have my conspiracy theories about it, but I don't know. So it's the last movie -. [01:14:58][45.4]

Doug Misicko: [01:14:59] That cunt Janet Reno send people over? [01:15:01][1.9]

Amy Bugbee: [01:15:01] I wouldn't doubt it. I mean, we were there the day before McVeigh died, so I'm sure that we were being watched. [01:15:05][4.2]

Shane Bugbee: [01:15:08] That's fucked up. We lost a lot of good footage of very historical stuff. Too bad the world didn't get to see it. Too bad the world wasn't in those buildings that burned down at Waco too. [01:15:17][9.3]

Amy Bugbee: [01:15:18] And unfortunately, if a good Samaritan would have found my video camera or anything - [01:15:22][4.3]

Doug Misicko: [01:15:24] He would have gotten a free Might Is Right T-shirt tonight! [01:15:25][0.3]

Amy Bugbee: [01:15:28] If they would have rewound the video a little bit to see what was on there. The last scene was a toothless hooker. [01:15:35][7.1]

Shane Bugbee: [01:15:35] I paid this toothless hooker - [01:15:36][0.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:15:36] fucking a comic book. [01:15:37][0.6]

Shane Bugbee: [01:15:38] I paid this toothless hooker twenty bucks to fuck one of Mike Diana's comic books. And it was disgusting, that's for sure. [01:15:46][7.7]

Doug Misicko: [01:15:46] Fucking Jared. Jared probably stole your videos. That dude's probably stalking you. [01:15:49][2.0]

Shane Bugbee: [01:15:52] Jared, what do you have to say about that? Radio Free Satan won't let you back on their server is what you're telling me. So you can't hear the show. People are dropping off like flies. This is fucking nuts, man. What the fuck are we doing here? But no, literally, we're going to - this is a Waco chunk of stuff that the guy from Waco gave me. Very few people have this. And I know it's never been broadcast. It's something special. I think we're going to start with trying to play a record safe. I'm breaking a ton of cherries here tonight. I'm bleeding everywhere. But this is the first time we're going to play a record on this radio show. So let's play. Let's try. This is - um, who is this? [01:16:31][38.8]

Amy Bugbee: [01:16:31] This is The Beast. And this song is for Shane. [01:16:34][2.7]

Shane Bugbee: [01:16:35] Whoa. Well, this one is going out to Jared. Not to me. To Jared. Come on, Amy, hit it, one, two, three. Hello, is this thing on? We've got it. Let's start over again. Wait, wait, wait. Stop it. All right, you didn't hear the last two minutes, you didn't hear the last two minutes, you didn't hear the last. All right. This one is going out to Jared. Just fucked it up again. [01:17:55][80.3]

Shane Bugbee: [01:21:19] Testing, testing is this thing on? Hello, testing. I don't think this fucking shit is working. Hello. Hello. Testing, is this - hello? Hello. Testing. Hello. Is this thing on? This fucking internet broadcasting. What the, fuck this fucking stupid computer. Hello. Hello. Is this thing on? Oh, fuck it, man fucking shit. Mother fucking motherfucking shit computer. God damn it! Hello, hello. Oh, shit, I think this shit works. [01:21:52][33.1]

Unidentified: [01:24:24] Yeah, I I've been getting some harassing emails, machine bombi? I don't how he got my email address. I don't want any more emails from him ever again. I'm on this email list of his and he's trying to send me something. I'm a writer. I don't think you guys want any bad press for whatever label you have, whatever kind of band you're trying to push. But I really don't appreciate getting these emails from him. I want to be taken off the list. If I don't get taken off the list, and I stop getting these harassing emails from him, I'm just going to have to keep calling this phone number and just charging up this stupid fucking line wherever you guys are trying to sell. I don't want any more emails from him. Thanks a lot. [01:24:56][32.6]

Voiceover: [01:27:24] All that remains today of the Branch Davidian church home near Waco, Texas, is a pile of rubble and a lot of unanswered questions [01:27:30][6.3]

Voiceover: [01:27:34] It did not have to end that way. But man is so impatient. That man thinks he's so intelligent. He tries to outdo God. What the people did not understand is that they were fighting God. And if you read Psalms, too, you'll find out that God is laughing at people who think they have won the war. It's his war. And he'll finish it. [01:28:04][30.2]

Voiceover: [01:28:15] Anybody who has met any of us Davidians, Branch Davidians, has said when we meet you, we see how intelligent, how honest, how just what you're like. And that's not the picture that's been painted in the media as what we are at all. They've said cultists, you know, and you've seen a picture of a building and pictures have been painted in your minds about who we were and what we were and what we believed and what we stood for. People said we were, we were brainwashed. We're mind controlled. Those things were not true at all. We were all there studying the Bible because we could see that David had something to teach that nobody else did. [01:28:46][31.7]

Voiceover: [01:28:47] The Branch Davidian doctrine is often misunderstood, and it was over a difference of interpretation of the Book of Revelations that led its founder, Victor Houteff, to leave the Seventh Day Adventist Church. [01:28:58][10.7]

Voiceover: [01:28:59] We believe that the Bible in its entirety, from the Book of Genesis all the way through the Book of Revelation, including some books that were not included in the in the King James Bible, are all prophetic. And they all point to the times that we're coming to today. [01:29:17][18.6]

Voiceover: [01:29:19] He moved his followers from Los Angeles to Waco, Texas, in 1935, purchased a property near Lake Waco and established the Mount Carmel Center. This original property was later sold and the church moved to a location about 12 miles east of Waco. They believe the return of Christ was imminent, and in 1959, about 900 church members gathered here at the new Mount Carmel to await the second coming. In this rare interview, Branch Davidian spokesman Dudley Gothe explained the biblical basis for their religious beliefs and the purpose in his gathering. All nations they are to battle is that he might prepare the land, so that he can set up his kingdom, so that his people might return there and set up his kingdom in compliance or in fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel 2:44, where the Lord says he's going to set up his kingdom down in the last days. That particular prophecy is brought out on this small child. [01:30:22][63.3]

Voiceover: [01:30:22] Unlike mainstream Protestant theology, the Branch Davidian is do not believe there will be a rapture of the church. They believe Christians will endure the tribulation and suffer persecution for their faith. [01:30:33][10.7]

Voiceover: [01:30:34] ...The image to pieces. And Daniel said that this stone is God's kingdom that is set up in the days of these all these things that are represented by the tolls. [01:30:42][7.6]

Voiceover: [01:30:43] We have come down to the stores of time, the feet of the image to be divided. Daniel saw our day. He saw exactly what would happen and he was told in Daniel 12. Daniel and Revelation are two books that go hand in hand. [01:31:03][19.2]

Voiceover: [01:31:04] After the death of Victor Houteff in 1955, church leadership went to Benjamin and Lois Roden. But over the years, their numbers slowly dwindled away. When Vernon Howell, who later changed his name to David Koresh, appeared on the scene in the 1980s, many thought it was a sign. [01:31:23][18.4]

Voiceover: [01:31:24] It is best that's everything he tried, he did his best, and he made an effort to let us know he cared about us and he was from the beginning, from Palestine up until the time when we saw the big house there. He was always improving our life, always trying. Every living soul that accepts Christianity, I challenge them to show me the seven seals of Revelation four and five, and if they can't do it, then I show them. And if they're honest, they'll see it. [01:31:51][27.2]

Voiceover: [01:31:52] Like many survivalist groups today, the Branch Davidians began to prepare for the coming persecution. They purchased weapons for self-defense, and stored food supplies to sustain them. [01:32:04][11.5]

Voiceover: [01:32:05] A lot of people vilify the Branch Davidians because they had a lot of food, they had a lot of ammo. They were sort of separatist survivalist waiting for Armageddon. And you know why you might not want that sort of person living next door to you? There's really nothing wrong with it. There's nothing illegal about it. There's nothing that... [01:32:23][17.7]

Voiceover: [01:32:24] When a disgruntled church member, Mark Breault, was expelled for improper conduct, he went to the authorities with fabricated stories of child molesting and weapons violations. [01:32:34][9.7]

Voiceover: [01:32:35] Him having sex with underage girls was and molesting children and so forth was something that was cooked up by members who were booted out for immoral behavior. And and the FBI and the ATF - it was a good excuse to do what they did out of Mount Carmel. [01:32:54][19.4]

Voiceover: [01:32:55] The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was originally established to collect taxes for the US Treasury Department. Today, their mission is the disarming of the American civilian population. Therefore, the Branch Davidian church near Waco became a target for extermination. Branch Davidian church members compare it to an attack on a Viet Cong village made even more curious by the newspaper articles that had just been released. In a display of flagrant disregard, The Waco Tribune-Herald began running a series of reports about the Branch Davidians on the same day of the ATF assault. Equally curious is the fact that it was the undercover agent, Robert Rodriguez, who brought copies of the newspaper to Mount Carmel, that very morning. [01:34:10][74.8]

Voiceover: [01:34:11] papers were brought in in the morning by Robert. And I was down - I came down there when he was showing them to the different people that were down there and. I read a little bit about it, but then one of the men went out and got some of the papers and brought them back, and a little later I came back down and picked a paper up to bring it up to my room to read it completely. And I noticed they - two calcars coming in. And pull up in front and I ran upstairs, read the paper, I thought the men were going to do something. With that, I -. [01:35:01][49.9]

Voiceover: [01:35:01] Catherine went upstairs to her room, and the attack on Mount Carmel began [01:35:04][2.8]

Voiceover: [01:35:07] After I had gotten upstairs, I heard three helicopters. Reason I know there were three because I looked out the window to see where they were, what they were doing, and they were firing on us. [01:35:20][12.9]

Voiceover: [01:35:21] With a search warrant of questionable legality, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms launched a raid on the Branch Davidian church. It was Sunday morning, February 28, 1993, and Catherine Mathis was absolutely positive that government agents fired the first shots. [01:35:39][18.2]

Voiceover: [01:35:41] I saw and I heard it, and they were - I was in the back of the building, that's where my room was, and they were firing toward David's room. And they turned, and when they turned, I fell to the floor because I could see, that those bullets could have hit me if I were standing, so they went to the front of the building and. It seemed like when they got in the front, by the time they got to the front, they were firing again and so, all the others were fired. [01:36:19][37.7]

Voiceover: [01:36:20] when questioned further about her observations that day, Catherine was adamant. She was certain of what she saw and heard. [01:36:28][8.0]

Voiceover: [01:36:30] Definitely they were the only ones I heard and saw at the time that they were coming in in the helicopter. They're - There was no one else firing. [01:36:42][12.6]

Voiceover: [01:36:44] Questioned separately, Annetta Richards' testimony is virtually identical to that of Catherine Matteson's. [01:36:50][6.0]

Voiceover: [01:36:51] I was actually getting ready for worship. And. I heard a noise like a helicopter, and then I heard bullets start firing, you know, bullets are coming in from every direction and the helicopters were flying over the building. It was - the sound of it was so low that by the time I saw it, they had landed on the roof. [01:37:18][26.8]

Voiceover: [01:37:29] Bullets were coming from all directions, and I heard a voice saying get down. So those of us who were there in the hallway went down, on the floor on our tummy, on our hands and feet. And I looked around and I saw some children, so I took them close to me and there was a baby, a little 10 year old girl was holding her. And I took the baby from her and, like, hovering with my body over the baby's, so that if a bullet came through, it would hit me instead of the baby. [01:38:15][46.0]

Voiceover: [01:38:16] There is corroboration for their testimony of gunfire from the helicopters. It comes from one of the Branch Davidian children who left Mount Carmel that evening and was later told by psychologist Dr. Bruce Perry that I asked her, is there anything else? She took her crayon and went. And I asked what that was. And she said that was bullets. No sooner had the dust settled than the ATF began to lie and cover up about their actions during the raid, the way they acted as though the Branch Davidian had come looking for them. [01:38:54][38.0]

Voiceover: [01:38:55] The main problem we had. I don't believe is that we were outmaneuvered or out. The problem we have is that we were outgunned. [01:39:01][6.0]

Voiceover: [01:39:02] Fed up with the obvious lies, a young independent investigator named Ron Cole decided it was time to get involved and packed his bags and headed for Waco. After talking with eyewitnesses and conducting his own research, Ron Cole arrived at the obvious conclusion using a scale model of Mount Carmel. He relates the sequence of events that fateful Sunday morning. [01:39:26][23.3]

Voiceover: [01:39:26] Those people that I've talked to that were in a position to see the helicopters indicate the helicopters fired first, whereas those that were at the front of the center couldn't see the helicopters, could hear them, but saw the agents exiting the cattle trailers. They say the first shots came from these ATF agents at the front. That's why I'm saying it seems to me the shots were fired from agents at the front and from the helicopters within seconds of each other, which means there would not have been enough time for some emergency code word to have been used or for someone else inside to fire the first shot that would have initiated simultaneous fire from the ground and from the air within seconds of each other. That indicates to me that this was planned in advance. It was a frontal assault from the ground and air support coming in from the back, simultaneous preplanned attack. [01:40:15][48.3]

[01:40:16] And practice for it, drilled over and over again. And we had a plan down. We had a diversion down. [01:40:24][8.0]

Voiceover: [01:40:26] When the ATF agents arrived at Mount Carmel, they should have noticed the Branch Davidian men were not where they were expected to be. Ron Cole explains. [01:40:34][8.2]

Voiceover: [01:40:35] When the two ATF controllers pulled into the driveway from Iran, strode out front of the property, the team that was in the first cattle trailer, they were supposed to exit the trailer here and go to the under-construction tornado shelters where they thought most of the men would be that morning trying to finish up the shelters themselves. The second trailer, they were supposed to disembark and crashed through the front door part of the team. The other part of the team was to come around the side up these ladders into what they thought was the gun room, another small part of that second cattle trailer team. They were supposed to go and suppress the dogs, either with a fire extinguisher or if need be, with gunshots. In fact, so far, the testimony that's come out of the trial is that the opening shots may, in fact, have been fired by ATF agents at the cattle trailers. [01:41:31][56.0]

Voiceover: [01:41:32] When David Koresh saw the ATF agents pulling out of the cattle trailers, he opened the front door and made an attempt to stop the attack. I opened the front door. [01:41:41][9.4]

Voiceover: [01:41:42] They were running up their tactical expertize. They got their guns changed and everything. They started hollering, you know, all of hollered. I didn't know what they were saying. And I was already hollering. I was saying, you know, hey, go away. You know, I was hollering, go away. There's women and children here. Let's talk. They started firing at me. [01:42:05][22.6]

Voiceover: [01:42:06] And so what happened was, is that I fell back and the bullets started coming to the door. And so then what had some of the some of the young men and stuff started firing on him. Courageous version of the attack was later confirmed by Bradbrook in a phone call from the McLennan County jail. When they shut down, they did open the door [01:42:27][21.1]

Voiceover: [01:42:27] and they hand out the older women and children at [01:42:30][3.1]

Voiceover: [01:42:31] the door and I'll be the boiler. And that boy slammed the door at six. Branch Davidian were killed during the attack. Among them was Australian born Peter Jiah, who was working inside the old water tower and simply looked out to see what was going on. [01:42:46][14.6]

Voiceover: [01:42:47] It was shot here on top of the water tower while he was working, cleaning out the inside of the water tower. He came to the top level that he had built. He built up several levels so he could clean out the inside of it from top to bottom. And when he walked up over the top level there, he was shot. [01:43:09][22.1]

Voiceover: [01:43:10] David Koresh, his father in law, Harry Jones, was standing behind him when he opened the front door. Jones took several bullets meant for Koresh and died about an hour later. [01:43:21][10.7]

Voiceover: [01:43:22] The child's testimony to Dr Perry concerning the holes with that, she drew in the room, corroborate with what a lot of other people that were in there said, including Katherine Madsen and Dick DeGuerin. Dick DeGuerin was interviewed by Diane Sawyer on ABC Primetime, and he stated in this interview that he clearly saw its. The ceiling, as it appeared, looked quote unquote, like Swiss cheese because it had holes all in it from bullets fired through the roof, the only way, obviously these bullet holes could be in the ceiling from the through the roof is from helicopter fire. And I've talked to David Jones, a little six year old daughter, and I asked her, what did you do on February 28? What happened? And she said that bullets started coming through the roof and she ran and hid under her bed. And her brother, who was a couple of years older than her, ran down the hall into the stairwell. As a matter of fact, Winston Blake, who was one of the people killed inside Mount Carmel on the first day. He was found with a bullet hole through the top of his head and he was still holding a piece of French toast. I was terrified when I heard the bullets coming because it was like, you know, it was so frightening. You hear the bullets coming in, you don't know why we're so there was nothing you could do, you know. It was frightening. Nobody had any time to prepare for anything. It was just so sudden. [01:45:03][101.1]

Voiceover: [01:45:04] The last shooting that day occurred around seven p.m. and was reported by the news media in this manner [01:45:10][5.8]

Voiceover: [01:45:11] a couple of hours ago, about seven o'clock tonight, there was more gunfire. Three members of the cult came out of the compound firing at ATF agents. One of the members was killed, another was taken into custody, [01:45:22][10.9]

Voiceover: [01:45:23] and a third was that news report was a complete lie. Once again, Ron Cole sets the record straight. [01:45:29][6.4]

Voiceover: [01:45:30] Mike Schroeder, Bob Kendrick and Norman Allison were not inside Mount Carmel Center in the morning of February 28 when this raid took place. All three of them were at the mag bag several miles away when they heard about the raid on the radio. They made the decision after hearing about the raid to try to get back home. Mike Schroeder had his wife, his baby boy inside. Nobody knew who was alive or dead or what had happened. Exactly. Mike Schroeder attempted a mad dash from off the property trying to get over this fence into the paint shop on Mount Carmel. Unfortunately, he was seen by Special Agent Daryl Dyer, who had his outpost set up since before the raid in the Heyburn off the property. Mike ran towards this fence and although he was unarmed, well, he was armed with nothing but a stun gun. Dale Dyer emptied his 30 round submachine gun magazine into Mike, striking seven times in the back. Agent Dyer fired one burst at him, but somehow Mike kept struggling, got about 10 feet from the property line here and where you see these sections cut off at this tree. That's where his body rest for several days before they saw fit to remove it. [01:46:44][73.3]

Voiceover: [01:46:46] The official reason for the raid on Mount Carmel was to search for illegal weapons and arrest David Koresh. However, as it turns out, most of the guns were not even there. [01:46:56][9.8]

Voiceover: [01:46:56] We did have somewhat of a collection, but the weapons were never intended to. Paul Fatah, who worked at gun shows all over Texas and end up at Mount Carmel, who in fact was responsible for most of the gun purchases through the mag bag he rented out on February 28. That morning, while the raid took place, he was at a gun show in Austin with his son, along with most of the weapons that the ATF had come there to seize. There was a business that David was conducting, selling firearms. [01:47:28][31.8]

Voiceover: [01:47:30] Paul Fada and David Koresh sold guns and other merchandise at gun shows, as do many gun dealers. This was a perfectly legitimate enterprise and gave David Koresh a chance to talk to people about his religious beliefs. I met the guy one time real briefly at a gun show a couple of years ago. I was passing out fliers and and he wanted to talk guns in the Bible. So the ATF, he wasn't looking for Bibles when they raided Mount Carmel, but they should have known that most of the guns were in Austin with Paul Fatah. [01:48:02][32.9]

Voiceover: [01:48:04] The ATF had an undercover house across the street a hundred yards away from the front door. McConnell said they had that place under surveillance 24 hours a day, every day for weeks prior to February 28 raid. And they had to be aware of the fact that Paul was working these gun shows. And it seems to me unless they're completely ignorant of reality, they ought to have been able to see from 100 yards away Paul leaving to go to this gun show. And after weeks of surveillance and several of these shows should have figured out that the vast majority of those weapons would not have even been there. [01:48:39][36.0]

Voiceover: [01:48:41] Guns may not have been the only thing the ATF was looking for. [01:48:44][3.5]

Voiceover: [01:48:45] Jeff Little was an analyst, a computer analyst for Yamaha of Americas headquarters in Winter Park, California, and [01:48:55][9.8]

Voiceover: [01:48:56] writes Floridians Jeff Little and Wayne Martin had been conducting their own investigation of the ATF using computers located inside Mount Carmel. [01:49:06][9.2]

Voiceover: [01:49:06] I think that the possibilities for Jeff Little and Wayne more to have been able to tap into information concerning the ATF or any other part of the federal government would be very high. I saw some information. They were collecting information on all of the ATF activities over the last several years. [01:49:29][23.0]

Voiceover: [01:49:31] In April of 1991, after Operation Desert Storm Marine Corps fast sealift vessels returned to Port Arthur, Texas, a ship's officer who refused an interview and does not wish to be identified says that his ship's cargo hold was full of helicopters. Concealed inside the helicopters were thousands of weapons confiscated from captured Iraqi soldiers. These helicopters with weapons inside were then loaded onto flatbed railcars and shipped to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. It is believed that these firearms are intended for distribution to American street gangs, which are currently being converted by police agencies into law enforcement units. The weapons, of course, would not be traceable. These gangs working with the ATF will be used to enter civilian homes to confiscate weapons. Is it possible that Jeff Little and Wayne Martin access classified government [01:50:31][60.8]

Voiceover: [01:50:32] computer files through a back door? They had obtained this information. [01:50:36][4.1]

Voiceover: [01:50:38] Yeah, I think that it's it's very possible that there could have been some kind of information that they had on the computer inside the the building there, that was information the ATF did not want to get out. And I think they seem to be awfully anxious to to get into that one window that they that everyone saw them going into. And there's a possibility it might have been something besides guns they were after. [01:51:09][31.9]

Voiceover: [01:51:25] Evening settled in over the dark hills of central Texas and the long siege began, 51 days of Tarong, 51 days of darkness, hope and frustration in all of America lived through it. Never before in the history of law enforcement had so many personnel exerted so much effort for so little reason. The search warrant primarily listed conversion kits, which may have altered an AR 15 assault rifle, which might have been installed by the Branch Davidian, which could have created an illegal machine gun to make such a weapon legal, a 200 dollar tax must be paid. Therefore, the ATF and FBI ultimately spent seven million dollars in order [01:52:19][53.3]

Voiceover: [01:52:19] to collect 200 bucks. [01:52:20][1.5]

Voiceover: [01:52:25] The police believe David Koresh was a vicious criminal and guilty of kidnaping, rape, murder and all sorts of heinous crimes. No, they did not. McLennan County Sheriff Jack Farwell knew David on a first name basis. And in 1987, following a shootout with George Roden, had arrested David and searched the property without incident. Americans everywhere sat in the comfort of their homes and watched the drama unfold. They witnessed the trampling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Those who seek to control guns will also try to control people. Those who control the masses care not for the lives of innocent men, women and children. The standoff at Mount Carmel gradually evolved into a surreal cosmic struggle between good and evil, freedom and slavery, free will and tyranny. The next day, Monday, March one dawned clear and bright, however, a radio talk show host in Dallas, Ron Engelmann, refused to tow the official government line and took up the cause of the Branch Davidian. [01:53:48][83.4]

Voiceover: [01:53:50] I see you guys out there and I'll give you that book out there. The next agreement I'm going to give you, if you can take the other one in Liberia. [01:53:57][7.3]

Voiceover: [01:53:58] All right. The standoff continues in Waco this evening. The CBC's radio personality [01:54:03][4.4]

Voiceover: [01:54:03] wants to take a van into the compound with two surgeons [01:54:06][2.7]

Voiceover: [01:54:06] to treat any wounded Branch Davidian. We're treating these people worse than we treat. Prisoners of war, prisoners of war [01:54:12][5.3]

Voiceover: [01:54:12] get medical attention. Nobody is receiving medical attention in their midst at all. [01:54:18][5.8]

Voiceover: [01:54:18] You're not answering the question. You're talking around and just answer the question, are you OK? And if you don't. Why did they kill Randy Weaver's wife? Why did they kill Randy Weaver, 14 year old son, by shooting him in the back four times? Our government has run amuck, the FBI, particularly the ATF. That's the problem. The first article they wrote says in the article [01:54:39][21.3]

Voiceover: [01:54:40] they have a 50 caliber machine gun, [01:54:42][1.6]

Voiceover: [01:54:43] but they've never been able to find that 50 caliber machine gun. I'm just saying what the ATF did was illegal. Why are they why are they coming into our state the way they're coming in here and just acting like a bunch of renegades, the entire Branch Davidian who were hostages of the ATF, they didn't surrender. They were leaving their homes. Ron Engelmann was outraged over the attack on this peaceful religious community. Our phone number is now under siege, was underway, and Ron wanted to fill in for up here on Metro Calusa Monday morning. I decided I'm going to tell him a new ask the ATF. I go to work Monday morning on my way to work. I'm listening to his position on the ATF, stirred up a lively debate and Ron Engelmann became the target of much criticism from the establishment press and were critical of Ron that we didn't think he should get involved [01:55:33][50.4]

Voiceover: [01:55:34] in that part of the process that would have caused, [01:55:37][3.1]

Voiceover: [01:55:38] said David Koresh often. We don't rule throughout that [01:55:42][3.8]

Voiceover: [01:55:42] first Sunday evening when some of the Branch Davidian children were sent out in exchange for the FBI, allowing a message from David Koresh to be broadcast over Dallas Station K.R. on five five. Oh my God, who sits on the throne in heaven has given me a book of seven SEALs in Revelation, 10 or seven of the sealed book. The Mystery of God is to Beast found. David Koresh has declared he believed as to all of the Branch Davidian to this day and 22 that they were at the fifth seal and the fifth seal meant that there was going to be something, something was going to happen to those that believe in God. And that night, as as he was able to broadcast and give messages over the radio in order for him to do that, he would have to make force two or three children to leave their home, to leave their parents and go into the custody of the same people that had just killed a number of those inside and wounded. A number of those inside had terrorized everyone inside and had now had the place surrounded. And these little children were forced to leave their home and go into the hands of those people. I don't know if I would allow my child to do that. On day three of the siege Tuesday, March, the second David Koresh set a tape out with Katherine Madsen. Their agreement was they would all come out if the tape, a fifty eight minute sermon was broadcast on radio stations during prime time. They were supposed to play the tape in prime time now. Now, that could have meant two different things. Prime time or drive time on radio would be like from 4:00 to 6:00 in the evening. Prime time on television would be like from seven o'clock till 10:00 or eight o'clock till eleven o'clock. And that's when they wanted to tape play. The tape was actually played at one thirty in the afternoon. And there's every possibility in the world that they were not listening to the tape or listening to the radio when the tape was played and therefore never knew that the tape was played. That may be one of the reasons they didn't come out. The Branch Davidian did not leave Mount Carmel. Following the broadcast of David Koresh sermon, the FBI said that David had lied to them. But later, Sheila Martin told us the actual reasons for not coming out. [01:58:10][147.9]

Voiceover: [01:58:10] It's one of the reasons David stated he knew that the land would become ours, for instance. [01:58:15][4.8]

Voiceover: [01:58:16] My understanding is owner about March 22nd, 1988, Waco judge issued a verbal order that the Branch Davidian must occupy the 77 acre plot of land continuously for a period of five years. Then it would become legally theirs. The five year period would not expire for another 20 days. Inside Mount Carmel, where about 100 people, they represented a diverse racial and cultural mix of nationalities, but we're all there for one purpose, only to study the Bible. [01:58:49][33.5]

Voiceover: [01:58:50] We were trying to to live in the community like the early apostles did. [01:58:50][0.0]

[3734.3]

Hour 3-13

(work in progress)

Hour 14

[music]

Hour 15

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14:13:24 Doug Misicko: Natural selection and modern civilizations has ceased to exist. Today we live in a world overpopulated with bottom feeders. The pool is overfilled. With the drags. There's no inherent value on a human life. The value is earned and most people are running a deficit. They're worse than worthless. They're counterproductive what can be done www that dis genix.com You think you know me if you only know my name? then fine music. Power of rock'n'roll rebellion best music on radio under the frozen rock?

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14:15:50 Shane Bugbee: Evilnow.com if we're doing something you like we've failed. Evilnow.com, we live to be hated.

14:16:06 Pre-record (masc): Picture if you can. A lovely summer's day with birds a singing. The smell of wild flowers in the air. Children laughing and playing, and the feeling of true love in the air...Now, sure, an hour of Sonic ripping head bashing metal straight from hell. spinning the best vintage metal from the 70s and 80s check the station's website for scheduled air times. Cry and its own Radio Free citing.com to me This is Professor sinister here with a five second mystery what radio station are you listening to? If you said Radio Free Satan, you are correct.

14:17:18 Anton LaVey's satanic mass originally recorded in 1968 at the Church of Satan headquarters and out of print for a number of years. This historic document is once again available on this fully authorized compact disk. Available for $10 plus $2, Shipping and handling for ordering instructions points your web browser to www.MephistoMedia.com. And then you too will be able to enjoy this historic recording of Anton LaVey's Satanic Mass.

14:18:02 This is Professor sinister, reminding you that before you criticize a man you should walk a mile in his shoes. That way when you do criticize him, you'll be a mile away and he'll be barefoot.

14:18:14 Carried on the weight of your hard drive. You're listening to radio free satan. Radio free satan, accuse, corrupt the minds of... Radiofreesatan.com infernal noise Radio Free satan.comyou allow yourself to get dot com. Hello. Hello. Hey, we're we're back.

14:19:05 Amy Bugbee: I'm still alive.

14:19:07 Shane Bugbee: Well wouldn't go that far. We have a special guest on the phone already, to kick stuff off. Ken, can you hear us?

14:19:15 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, I can hear you.

14:19:18 Doug Misicko: Yep.

14:19:19 Shane Bugbee: Introduce your guest, my man.

14:19:21 Doug Misicko: Okay, we have Kenn Thomas with steamshovel press, check out his material at steamshovelpress.com. He's the author of several books of the conspiratorial vein. And we wanted to ask him a few things about September 11. What do you think happened, Ken?

14:19:39 Kenn Thomas: Well, obviously a couple of planes crashed into some buildings. But I think the least of what you can say about it is if the current administration was not directly involved, in the, in that distraction, then they have taken advantage of it to kind of, you know, push forward their agenda and increase their power. Which is, which is actually kind of an old old tactic. You know, it goes back to Hitler and the Reichstag fire to actually, you know, be involved in creating terror called the strategy attention. At lease, that's what it was called by Sanguinetti, the type two writer, situationist is writer in Italy, that is to keep the world terrorized in order to further your own power. That's what I think happened.

14:20:22 Doug Misicko: Certainly. Obviously, they took advantage of it to the fullest extent, but they took advantage of it rather quickly. And it's re-, it's almost been the basis of this administration. Do you think that lends credibility to the idea that they had something to do with the very cause?

14:20:38 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, well, I mean, it seems pretty clear that they're planning to invade Iraq, you know, certainly predates 911, and Iraq, you know, kind of tenuous connection or no connection at all to, to 911 kind of gives the lie to the, to the idea that that's why we're over there. But, you know, I'm here in LA right now, because I'm going to give a talk on this topic and peripherally related topics, as is seen under this concept of the octopus, and that bush and and friends actually belong to this transnational power group that this is taken over and is in charge and does not you know, consider things... I mean, if they wanted to put somebody into the presidency, they just did it. They didn't care about the electoral process. And and this topic, you know, which is which is this book that I co-wrote with, with Jim Keith covers, basically a lot of ground gives you a more thorough picture of what is actually happening, then you might get thinking that you're, you know, you live in a free country where, you know, your vote matters and that kind of thing.

14:21:48 Doug Misicko: So what exactly is the octopus? How is it felt that they operate?

14:21:53 Kenn Thomas: Well, the octopus is is actually a begin with a group of covert intelligence operatives right after the war, former OSS people, but it's in some of these people are clearly identifiable players. It's kind of hard to get at the core of that, because obviously, it's a conspiracy as a secret group. And recently, you've actually seen a number of resignations from W's administration that are like limited hangout type resignations, to you know, deflect any attention towards, away from from the main piece, the main octopus, I mean, that includes things like Richard Perle, who read resigned after it was exposed before the Iraq war that he was making attempts to profiteer from it by having meetings with Adnan Khashoggi, who was like one of the major characters that Danny Caballero was investigating. And Caballero is the writer who first came up with this concept of "the octopus". And a lot of the people that he identified and a lot of the the processes and the dynamics of politics. Keep coming back into the news. Richard Perle was one another one was John Poindexter, Kessler wrote about this guy. Back during the Iran Contra days. Poindexter was was actually convicted of Iran-contra crimes and all that was overthrown. He had to resign, of course, because he was part of that total information awareness office that was was part of the DARPA and his idea that you could create a kind of a stock market based on predicting terrorist activities was so incendiary, so inflammatory that he was forced to resign. But if you recall, that's exactly what happened on 911. After the towers came down, there was a tremendous short selling spree and people made a fortune off of it. So, you know, it's obvious you know, that somebody knew something in advance.

14:23:49 Doug Misicko: John Poindexter was also recognized as a drug runner.

14:23:53 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, yeah. No In America, the big the big drunk runner is actually a guy named Richard Armitage, who is like Colin Powell's First Lieutenant. Armitage has long ago been exposed, is actually exposed by a guy named Beau Grice, who is this former Green Beret who's also been kind of dismissed as a crazy conspiracy theories. But he went over to Vietnam and he was hired by Ross Perot and he went over to Vietnam to investigate the drugs to basically investigate the POWs but in the process, also the drug trade in the Golden Triangle. And he got videotape statements from one of the great drug lords in Southeast Asia, Khun Sa, saying that the guy that he deals with in our government is Richard Armitage. And now he's a deputy Deputy Secretary of State. So yeah, that's what this is all about. That's what they have fantasy. And war is all about the production of heroin, there is something like 900%. And they make this this fortune on the international drug trade. And that goes to fund Black Ops, and all these other things, all that also flows all the part of, you know, a power conglomerate that has very little to do with the United States, or Britain, or Israel, or any of these supposedly individualized countries. It's all again, a transnational Corporation, almost but, you know, Corporation that's not really set up in terms of making money but in terms of keeping tremendous amounts of power and control in the hands of very few people.

14:25:22 Doug Misicko: Now, Caballero who, who unveiled this idea of the octopus was he was found dead in mysterious circumstances, was he not?

14:25:29 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, yeah. But actually, back in 1992, he was found in a West Virginia hotel room with his wrist slashed. And in fact, I believe that that gives him the right to, to become a verb. And whenever you see people who have committed suicide under mysterious circumstances, I refer to them as being Caballero'd, because that's precisely what happened. Vefore he died, he was telling his friends that if he got into an accident, don't believe it. He said that he was right on the trail of like this one piece of information that would have solidly made the case for the octopus, and that was that was the very night that he died.

14:26:08 Doug Misicko: Now, how does Caballero's octopus differ from other people's Illuminati?

14:26:16 Kenn Thomas: That's a very good question. There are any number of theories about secret power. Illuminati is one of them. Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, Tavistock Institute, there are in fact, dozens of power blocks. And I'm not saying they don't exist, and they exist...instead the octopus is what's real, and those aren't. So I think they kind of exist side by side. And of course, the Illuminati is a very, very old conspiracy plot and the octopus, and basically, you see it more in terms of kind of modern politics, post post war politics, you know, I don't think they're contradictory ideas, if that's what you're asking.

14:26:58 Doug Misicko: So what do you think the ultimate goal of the octopus is?

14:27:02 Kenn Thomas: Power, world control, keeping people in slaves, there's an interesting dimension of it, that kind of extends it out into space, you know? These are the same people. A big part of the story of the octopus is the PROMIS software, which is this super surveillance software that is that is running the ECHELON satellites, now. The satellites that can take your picture of your license plate from space. There, they use a fusion framing technique that's based on this promise software. And the Star Wars initiative is part of this. It's always going on in the background. In fact, part of Caballero's research was to document the mysterious death of a long list of defense contractors working for SDI people came to know too much very similar to the list now, of the microbiologists who are dying. People who have advanced knowledge of bio warfare around the world... only the latest, most visible one was that David Kelly guy in the UK. And so yeah, so there's a dimension of it that that has to do with that with the total control of people and expansion of the military power block around the world and in space, you know, all of this connects actually. And all these were topics Caballero studied Area 51, Pine Gap in Australia, the the Raytheon's listening posts for the ECHELON satellite systems across the country. So it's basically kind of like an evil plot to take over the universe.

14:28:40 Doug Misicko: Okay, I don't know about the microbiologist in the UK. I knew of one in Tennessee. There was...

14:28:46 Kenn Thomas: That was actually that was Don Wiley. I'm from that part of the world. I'm in Missouri, but yeah, the Don Wiley was the guy that was forced off the bridge or committed suicide by going off the bridge. But he was really one of only only one of at least two dozen. And the most famous one is is David Kelly guy who was the the UN inspector in Iraq who was saying that Tony Blair and his government and then sexing up the, the data they had concerning the WMDs. And but he was also a microbiologist. Not only that he was a microbiologist, who helped deprief, deprief, debrief Victor Sandakchiev (sic), who was a Soviet defector, a microbiologist who died under mysterious circumstances. But there have been others, there was another guy in Australia who was found in like a freezer locker and one of these like seen right out of The X-Files. And this circulates. I mean, you can get up on the web and just, you know, type in microbiologists. So you can see that there are dozens of the forms of pattern.

14:29:46 Doug Misicko: Okay, there's a pattern in there dying, but what for? What do you think is the end to this? I'm sure...

14:29:52 Kenn Thomas: There's a tremendously sophisticated program of biological warfare and bacteriological warfare, and people who have an advanced knowledge once they become less useful. They have to be killed. So that knowledge doesn't get out. I mean, it's a common practice again, and when the Marconi defense contractors for the FBI, these were super computer experts, who, who helped construct the Star Wars defense net. And once their usefulness was, was over, as researchers, you know, their usefulness of their life was over for the powers that be and they were all. Clearly, I think, killed. Now you can make a case that all this is coincidental. And this whole idea that mysterious death, actually goes back to the Kennedy assassination. All the witnesses and all the researchers who had information about who was really involved there comprise a long list of coincidental death. But of course, as somebody who, you know, I spend my time writing about conspiracies, and I, you know, I believe that you should not dismiss as coincidence, anything that can be explained as conspiracy, because more often than not, that proves to be true. And I think that's what's happening with a microbiologist.

14:31:04 Shane Bugbee: Amy?

14:31:05 Amy Bugbee: So, Kenn everything you're saying... I mean, I absolutely believe it's true, but it sounds so hopeless. What can people do? Where do we start to...

14:31:14 Shane Bugbee: Manure bombs?

14:31:18 Kenn Thomas: Nothing you can do it's just totally helpless. No, not really. I don't really have that answer. I'm sure the answers is as individual, as there are people who want to do something about it.

14:31:28 Shane Bugbee: I think I saw an answer on...

14:31:30 Kenn Thomas: You have to recognize what it is before you can do anything about it. So I'm not going to sit here and say "go vote for Howard Dean". Or, you know, go out and pick up a sign of protest sign on the weekend. Try to make a statement. All that seems really kind of futile. In fact, I've been working with a copy editor for this new edition of the octopus. There's a new edition of the octopus being published by feral house, that according to Adam Parfrey, it will be out in November. And...

14:32:00 Shane Bugbee: Who?

14:32:01 Kenn Thomas: Adam Parfrey, feral house, you guys know him?

14:32:04 Shane Bugbee: Oh, I think I remember him.

14:32:08 Doug Misicko: I am familiar, of course... yeah. Shane Bugbee: Oh, I think I remember him.

14:32:08 Kenn Thomas: Anyways, this new edition of the octopus coming out. And I've been dealing, I had to deal with a copy editor working on the manuscript to help, you know, bring it up to speed, all the current information. And in the end, when she did all this work, I suggested to her that she put her name in the acknowledgments. And she said, "Oh, no, no, no, no, I don't want to do that." And then right after all that work was done, she came back and she said she was going to go to work for the Dean campaign in Vermont. And it seemed so queer to me that she didn't want to attach her name to this crazy conspiracy stuff because she needed a certain amount of credibility. You know, she didn't want to bring that to her work with the Dean campaign. So so I really think that this right left dialogue that supposedly goes on the crossfire kind of thing or the supposed to debate that you hear on the Fox News, that's all false dialogue, and has so little to do with the actual strength and power that, you know, you can you can manipulate entire populations in totally irrelevancy. So my effort, in as what we should do about, what I do about it, I write these books. I go out lecture and just try to, you know, point to the to the real beast here. So, but, you know, everybody has their own answer that question, I guess. Doug Misicko: I am familiar, of course... yeah.

14:32:09 Kenn Thomas: Anyways, this new edition of the octopus coming out. And I've been dealing, I had to deal with a copy editor working on the manuscript to help, you know, bring it up to speed, all the current information. And in the end, when she did all this work, I suggested to her that she put her name in the acknowledgments. And she said, "Oh, no, no, no, no, I don't want to do that." And then right after all that work was done, she came back and she said she was going to go to work for the Dean campaign in Vermont. And it seemed so queer to me that she didn't want to attach her name to this crazy conspiracy stuff because she needed a certain amount of credibility. You know, she didn't want to bring that to her work with the Dean campaign. So so I really think that this right left dialogue that supposedly goes on the crossfire kind of thing or the supposed to debate that you hear on the Fox News, that's all false dialogue, and has so little to do with the actual strength and power that, you know, you can you can manipulate entire populations in totally irrelevancy. So my effort, in as what we should do about, what I do about it, I write these books. I go out lecture and just try to, you know, point to the to the real beast here. So, but, you know, everybody has their own answer that question, I guess.

14:33:23 Doug Misicko: I'm actually surprised at the lack of conspiracy material about September 11. It seems so, so ripe for it. I thought it would be more popular than Kennedy. Not long afterwards, project censored and their 2003 edition, released discrepancies in the 911 story or questionable items, including the FBI helping the bin Laden family flee the US after 911. The role of Pakistan's military intelligence agency in the 911 attacks. Osama bin Laden and his meeting with the CIA in July of 2001. 911 warnings from foreign governments, US Air Force delay scrambling interceptors on 911 and the Bush-bin Laden connection from the Carlyle Group, the US planned invasion of Afghanistan before 911, which they took the opportunity from 911 to carry out a plan that was already pre written. Insider stock trading disclosed on companies impacted by 911. There was some some insider dealings that seem people had advanced warning that 911 was going to happen. US government congressional responses to 911, which was a lot of them seem to have plans worked out in advance.

14:34:44 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, well, there's a lot of stuff like that. There's also a tremendous pressure to put a spin on it and to, to try to get people to forget the real question. There's a very good book by a friend of mine named Len Bracken called the shadow government that Lenin wrote just after 911 when all of the news stories were fresh, and it's like an almanac of all the questions that... all the problems, like the short selling spree that we're just talking about before, and all the different aspects that lead to conspiracy and behind the scenes, manipulation of 911. It's like a snapshot of that immediate moment in history. And it's a book that you can keep going back, you know, you can see what is being said now, and go back to what the questions really were then, and see what the matchups are and what the disconnects are.

14:35:35 Doug Misicko: What are the disconnects?

14:35:38 Kenn Thomas: What's that?

14:35:38 Doug Misicko: Right off the top of your head, what were some of the disconnects?

14:35:41 Unknown: Well, the main one that comes to mind now is this short selling spree, which is always a clear indication. First off again, John Poindexter, basically fired from his job because he was trying to formalize it and trying to create a market that was based on terrorist predictions where in fact pattern. Another book of mine, called "Mind control, Oswald and JFK", goes into detail about this short selling spree that happened after Kennedy was shot. And you know who the beneficiary of that was? Warren Buffett, Warren Buffett began to make his fortune, because he apparently had advanced knowledge of what was happening, what was going to happen on stock markets, right when Kennedy was shot on in November 1963.

14:36:29 Doug Misicko: I really didn't understand, the controversy...

14:36:30 Kenn Thomas: You know, looking at the financial markets, who those people are a lot of that should be traceable. That's very, you know that that's one avenue of research that needs to be pursued. And also these connections between Bush, the Bushs and Bin Ladens the idea that, you know, there was a plane when all air traffic in the country was stopped. It was a plane going all over the country picking up members of the bin Laden family and flying them out of the country. Doug Misicko: I really didn't understand, the controversy...

14:36:30 Kenn Thomas: You know, looking at the financial markets, who those people are a lot of that should be traceable. That's very, you know that that's one avenue of research that needs to be pursued. And also these connections between Bush, the Bushs and Bin Ladens the idea that, you know, there was a plane when all air traffic in the country was stopped. It was a plane going all over the country picking up members of the bin Laden family and flying them out of the country.

14:36:45 Shane Bugbee: That was the best one. Kenn Thomas: You know, looking at the financial markets, who those people are a lot of that should be traceable. That's very, you know that that's one avenue of research that needs to be pursued. And also these connections between Bush, the Bushs and Bin Ladens the idea that, you know, there was a plane when all air traffic in the country was stopped. It was a plane going all over the country picking up members of the bin Laden family and flying them out of the country.

14:36:54 Shane Bugbee: That was the best one.

14:36:56 Doug Misicko: You you've referred a couple times to Poindexter's... Poindexter's market scheme? I don't know what they called it. What really is the controversy there? I really didn't see something so wrong with them, setting up a predictions market, a futures market, as they called it. I mean, Poindexter was an unsavory fellow. And he was an asshole. And no doubt. It doesn't pained me to see him leave in disgrace.

14:37:22 Kenn Thomas: But what was the problem with the idea of...

14:37:25 Doug Misicko: Yeah, I really didn't understand why such...

14:37:27 Kenn Thomas: Insider trading, my friend, insider trading. They would have an unfair advantage since these guys actually create the terrorist incidents that they were going to predict.

14:37:37 Shane Bugbee: So they basically go after Martha Stewart for as a smokescreen.

14:37:41 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, kind of like that. One of the interesting things about Poindexter and his whole Defense Department office, total information awareness, is that the symbol that they use on their website was the pyramid with the eye over it. I mean, they weren't even this isn't in history.Wearing it on his sleeve. But again, he was also a convicted iran-contra felon who had his convictions overturned, and only one of many, many people... It's one of the, one of the things one of the ways to see this is to go back over to the Iran-Contra years. And iran-contra, of course, was a collusion with our enemies. It was selling arms to Iran to pay for an illegal war in Nicaragua. Which was part of a pattern actually that goes back to when Reagan was first elected in 1980. According to the octopus story, the Caballero story, part of his research documents this idea that the October surprise, the famous october surprise in the 1980 election resulted from Reagan making a deal with Khomeini to hold on to the hostages. The 52 American hostages, until after Carter lost the election. So this was a pattern of dealing with the Enemy that began there and went through iran-contra and went right on up to Saddam Hussein, who, you know, was a character that we did indeed build up before. We gave him the green light in the first Persian Gulf War, to invade Kuwait, and then beat him up, and then, you know, continue to... basically, useful for as long as he could be and then abandon him and invade the country.

14:39:20 Doug Misicko: Well, you know what, it seems like conspiracy theory is almost out the door for what people can see right now. I mean, things aren't even so secret anymore. I mean...

14:39:30 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, the best place to hide a secret is to put it in front of everybody.

14:39:34 Doug Misicko: Well right, because, they try to deny it's about oil and in the Middle East right now, and people are stupid enough to believe that.

14:39:43 Kenn Thomas: Yeah. Well, it's been true for a long time. I mean, you think of the Zapruder film, for instance, at the Kennedy assassination. That's a convenient little piece of film, like it's shown over and over and over again to everybody. That basically tells you on some level that, "yeah, we shot the son of a bitch, we kill them. We can kill anybody we want. Here's how we did it." You look at it over and over again. And it seems like its whole point and purpose is to tell you that, you know, yeah, we're in control here. What are you going to do? You know?

14:40:11 Doug Misicko: Do you believe there's anything else to see on the Zapruder film? Like William Cooper said, the driver turned around and shot him.

14:40:19 Kenn Thomas: I've always, I was always a big champion of William Cooper. I think his his death was tragic. You know, he was shot by, by the Sheriff in Arizona. And but I've never agreed with his position that the driver shot Kennedy. There's a reason to believe that. The driver clearly slowed or even stopped the car. You can see the brake lights coming on in the Zapruder film.

14:40:43 Shane Bugbee: Who is William Cooper? Kenn Thomas: I've always, I was always a big champion of William Cooper. I think his his death was tragic. You know, he was shot by, by the Sheriff in Arizona. And but I've never agreed with his position that the driver shot Kennedy. There's a reason to believe that. The driver clearly slowed or even stopped the car. You can see the brake lights coming on in the Zapruder film.

14:40:43 Shane Bugbee: Who is William Cooper?

14:40:45 Kenn Thomas: Pardon me...

14:40:45 Shane Bugbee: Who's this gentleman you're talking about? Is his name, William Cooper?

14:40:49 Kenn Thomas: Cooper theory of... the Bill Cooper theory of the Kennedy assassination is that the driver shot Kennedy.

14:40:54 Shane Bugbee: Who is he, though?

14:40:55 Doug Misicko: Right, William, William Cooper, he wrote, "Behold a Pale Horse". He was an ex-Naval Intelligence Officer, am I right?

14:41:02 Unknown: That's right. Yeah. And "Behold a Pale Horse" is a famous, is a famous book. It actually is interesting is that that was also the working title of Caballero's octopus book, he recently called it Behold a Pale Horse. But also, I think, a novel about the gay subculture in the Nazis called "Behold a Pale Horse". It's a line from the Bible, the book of Apocalypse. But Cooper was a very well known notorious figure on the UFO circuit. And he said a lot of strange things. And I've always defended him as as an ad man, as a guy who could turn conspiracy material into a large enough cartoon to attract a big audiences...

14:41:41 Doug Misicko: Was he a personal friend of yours? Unknown: That's right. Yeah. And "Behold a Pale Horse" is a famous, is a famous book. It actually is interesting is that that was also the working title of Caballero's octopus book, he recently called it Behold a Pale Horse. But also, I think, a novel about the gay subculture in the Nazis called "Behold a Pale Horse". It's a line from the Bible, the book of Apocalypse. But Cooper was a very well known notorious figure on the UFO circuit. And he said a lot of strange things. And I've always defended him as as an ad man, as a guy who could turn conspiracy material into a large enough cartoon to attract a big audiences...

14:41:42 Doug Misicko: So, did you know him personally? Doug Misicko: Was he a personal friend of yours? Unknown: That's right. Yeah. And "Behold a Pale Horse" is a famous, is a famous book. It actually is interesting is that that was also the working title of Caballero's octopus book, he recently called it Behold a Pale Horse. But also, I think, a novel about the gay subculture in the Nazis called "Behold a Pale Horse". It's a line from the Bible, the book of Apocalypse. But Cooper was a very well known notorious figure on the UFO circuit. And he said a lot of strange things. And I've always defended him as as an ad man, as a guy who could turn conspiracy material into a large enough cartoon to attract a big audiences...

14:41:42 Kenn Thomas: If you can do that you can drag people in, then you can finally presents them with some of the material that's, you know, a little bit more accurate. Doug Misicko: Was he a personal friend of yours? Doug Misicko: So, did you know him personally?

14:41:42 Doug Misicko: So, did you know him personally? Kenn Thomas: If you can do that you can drag people in, then you can finally presents them with some of the material that's, you know, a little bit more accurate.

14:41:52 Shane Bugbee: Okay, so we're talking about this all powerful government. If there's so many, there's so powerful, don't you think they could have gotten a hold of the Zapruder film and destroyed it? Slaughtered that guy's whole family, whatever, they could do everything they want, right? Doug Misicko: So, did you know him personally? Kenn Thomas: If you can do that you can drag people in, then you can finally presents them with some of the material that's, you know, a little bit more accurate.

14:41:52 Kenn Thomas: There are reasons though, to believe that the driver in the Zapruder film it stopped the car you can see the brake lights coming on. And then somebody actually picks up a 45 slug and FBI agent picks up a 45 slug and the opposite street of Elm, on the opposite side of Elm Street. So there are reasons to believe that, I just think in the overhaul, if you look at the film, you do not see the driver turning around shooting Kennedy. But you do see a lot of other very, very interesting stuff, like the umbrella man and the radio controller man. These are two people that that appear right after the stemmons freeway sign on the Zapruder film, who are coordinating what turns out to be very high tech, very elaborate, sophisticated crossfire assassination of Kennedy from the Book Depository, the dow tex building, and the grassy knoll. You can see all that in the film. And the idea that as they tried to put across the the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone, is utterly insane by just the very evidence of your eyes. Anytime you see the Zapruder film, you can see that shot coming from the grassy knoll. Doug Misicko: So, did you know him personally? Shane Bugbee: Okay, so we're talking about this all powerful government. If there's so many, there's so powerful, don't you think they could have gotten a hold of the Zapruder film and destroyed it? Slaughtered that guy's whole family, whatever, they could do everything they want, right?

14:41:52 Shane Bugbee: Okay, so we're talking about this all powerful government. If there's so many, there's so powerful, don't you think they could have gotten a hold of the Zapruder film and destroyed it? Slaughtered that guy's whole family, whatever, they could do everything they want, right? Kenn Thomas: There are reasons though, to believe that the driver in the Zapruder film it stopped the car you can see the brake lights coming on. And then somebody actually picks up a 45 slug and FBI agent picks up a 45 slug and the opposite street of Elm, on the opposite side of Elm Street. So there are reasons to believe that, I just think in the overhaul, if you look at the film, you do not see the driver turning around shooting Kennedy. But you do see a lot of other very, very interesting stuff, like the umbrella man and the radio controller man. These are two people that that appear right after the stemmons freeway sign on the Zapruder film, who are coordinating what turns out to be very high tech, very elaborate, sophisticated crossfire assassination of Kennedy from the Book Depository, the dow tex building, and the grassy knoll. You can see all that in the film. And the idea that as they tried to put across the the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone, is utterly insane by just the very evidence of your eyes. Anytime you see the Zapruder film, you can see that shot coming from the grassy knoll.

14:42:53 Shane Bugbee: Okay, so we're talking about this all powerful government. If there's so many, there's so powerful, don't you think they could have gotten a hold of the Zapruder film and destroyed it? Slaughtered that guy's whole family, whatever, they could do everything they want, right?

14:43:07 Kenn Thomas: Well, yeah. There's this idea that maybe they actually made the film, so that they could play it back over and over again and demonstrate to people when you have an operation like that, and again, you got to look at the photographic documentation. You've got a radio controller, man, you've got people walking all over the plaza with these radio control devices behind our ears, you can see this in various photographs.

14:43:29 Shane Bugbee: Right.

14:43:29 Kenn Thomas: So when you when you have something like that, of course, you're going to want to document it. Just like you would just like, you know, football players review tapes of their own show.

14:43:40 Shane Bugbee: Sure.

14:43:41 Kenn Thomas: So I mean, that could be an explanation behind it, but I've heard that many many times. In fact, you know, people say that to me all the time. Well, you know, if what you're saying is true, then how come they haven't killed you yet, Kenn?

14:43:52 Shane Bugbee: Right.

14:43:53 Kenn Thomas: I actually used to have This conversation with my co author, the the octopus is actually written, co written with a guy named Jim Keith, who is a very well known conspiracy writer. Wrote the gemstone file, black... the two black helicopters books that are so popular...

14:44:11 Doug Misicko: Right, he put together secret... Kenn Thomas: I actually used to have This conversation with my co author, the the octopus is actually written, co written with a guy named Jim Keith, who is a very well known conspiracy writer. Wrote the gemstone file, black... the two black helicopters books that are so popular...

14:44:11 Doug Misicko: Right, he put together secret...

14:44:12 Kenn Thomas: Who died under very mysterious circumstances after the octopus came out. So it's not really a conversation I can have with him anymore. So I mean, it's just that when you get down to the particulars, you know, why haven't they just sent out an army and wipe out everybody who has any idea of descent? I mean, is that where all this logically is? They, they, some people, they destroy their credibility. You know, a lot of people who are serious political dissidents actually wind up on the UFO talkshow circuit. Danny Sheehan is like that, at the Cryptic Institute, that guy actually tried to sue. Richard Armitage, and, you know, some version of this octopus power block, and he lost. And now he's lecturing with UFO stuff. So credibility can be destroyed that way, why didn't they kill Ted Kennedy, they were able to set them up with a scandal that has kept him under their thumb, all these years. So there's different approaches with different people. But it's, but it goes on all the time. Doug Misicko: Right, he put together secret...

14:44:12 Kenn Thomas: Who died under very mysterious circumstances after the octopus came out. So it's not really a conversation I can have with him anymore. So I mean, it's just that when you get down to the particulars, you know, why haven't they just sent out an army and wipe out everybody who has any idea of descent? I mean, is that where all this logically is? They, they, some people, they destroy their credibility. You know, a lot of people who are serious political dissidents actually wind up on the UFO talkshow circuit. Danny Sheehan is like that, at the Cryptic Institute, that guy actually tried to sue. Richard Armitage, and, you know, some version of this octopus power block, and he lost. And now he's lecturing with UFO stuff. So credibility can be destroyed that way, why didn't they kill Ted Kennedy, they were able to set them up with a scandal that has kept him under their thumb, all these years. So there's different approaches with different people. But it's, but it goes on all the time.

14:45:07 Amy Bugbee: So do you think it's one group of people that are doing this that control everything? Do you think it's different packets in different levels? I mean, if this is going back to Kennedy, are the same people that were behind that his assassination, the same people behind 911? Or is it... Kenn Thomas: Who died under very mysterious circumstances after the octopus came out. So it's not really a conversation I can have with him anymore. So I mean, it's just that when you get down to the particulars, you know, why haven't they just sent out an army and wipe out everybody who has any idea of descent? I mean, is that where all this logically is? They, they, some people, they destroy their credibility. You know, a lot of people who are serious political dissidents actually wind up on the UFO talkshow circuit. Danny Sheehan is like that, at the Cryptic Institute, that guy actually tried to sue. Richard Armitage, and, you know, some version of this octopus power block, and he lost. And now he's lecturing with UFO stuff. So credibility can be destroyed that way, why didn't they kill Ted Kennedy, they were able to set them up with a scandal that has kept him under their thumb, all these years. So there's different approaches with different people. But it's, but it goes on all the time.

14:45:07 Amy Bugbee: So do you think it's one group of people that are doing this that control everything? Do you think it's different packets in different levels? I mean, if this is going back to Kennedy, are the same people that were behind that his assassination, the same people behind 911? Or is it...

14:45:20 Kenn Thomas: You know, I don't want to reduce it down to some kind of, you know, exaggerated version of what it is. But I but I will tell you this, I wrote another book called Maury Island UFO, which I consider to kind of a prequel to the octopus. Because just as as I just said before, you can see the octopus theory reappearing in the daily headlines all the time, which gives it some sense of authenticity. If you'd actually do trace it back, the people like the main informant to Danny Caballero was a guy named Michael Riconosciuto, who was who had as a father figure is very closely tied to a man named Fred Crismon, who was involved in a very weird UFO event in 1947, called Maury Island casem and who was subpoenaed by Jim Garrison in 1968, for his role in the Kennedy assassination. So yeah, I will, you know, I will make the case and I can prove the case that there are a personalities, people and processes that go over generations, you know, and it's part of how you keep a huge power block like that in power, they don't just come on the scene after any particular election or event. It's part of an accrual process. And, you know, I'm no expert in things like the Illuminati or, you know, some of the Masons, or some of these ancient power blocks, and I certainly believe that there's truth to all that. But in the 20th century, and in the current century, yes, you can see that these things, trace back to lots of different personalities working for a power structure that has nothing to do with power, as we understand as we hope it is, you know, electing officials and that kind of thing. Amy Bugbee: So do you think it's one group of people that are doing this that control everything? Do you think it's different packets in different levels? I mean, if this is going back to Kennedy, are the same people that were behind that his assassination, the same people behind 911? Or is it...

14:45:21 Shane Bugbee: New world order, right? Kenn Thomas: You know, I don't want to reduce it down to some kind of, you know, exaggerated version of what it is. But I but I will tell you this, I wrote another book called Maury Island UFO, which I consider to kind of a prequel to the octopus. Because just as as I just said before, you can see the octopus theory reappearing in the daily headlines all the time, which gives it some sense of authenticity. If you'd actually do trace it back, the people like the main informant to Danny Caballero was a guy named Michael Riconosciuto, who was who had as a father figure is very closely tied to a man named Fred Crismon, who was involved in a very weird UFO event in 1947, called Maury Island casem and who was subpoenaed by Jim Garrison in 1968, for his role in the Kennedy assassination. So yeah, I will, you know, I will make the case and I can prove the case that there are a personalities, people and processes that go over generations, you know, and it's part of how you keep a huge power block like that in power, they don't just come on the scene after any particular election or event. It's part of an accrual process. And, you know, I'm no expert in things like the Illuminati or, you know, some of the Masons, or some of these ancient power blocks, and I certainly believe that there's truth to all that. But in the 20th century, and in the current century, yes, you can see that these things, trace back to lots of different personalities working for a power structure that has nothing to do with power, as we understand as we hope it is, you know, electing officials and that kind of thing.

14:45:22 Kenn Thomas: You know, I don't want to reduce it down to some kind of, you know, exaggerated version of what it is. But I but I will tell you this, I wrote another book called Maury Island UFO, which I consider to kind of a prequel to the octopus. Because just as as I just said before, you can see the octopus theory reappearing in the daily headlines all the time, which gives it some sense of authenticity. If you'd actually do trace it back, the people like the main informant to Danny Caballero was a guy named Michael Riconosciuto, who was who had as a father figure is very closely tied to a man named Fred Crismon, who was involved in a very weird UFO event in 1947, called Maury Island casem and who was subpoenaed by Jim Garrison in 1968, for his role in the Kennedy assassination. So yeah, I will, you know, I will make the case and I can prove the case that there are a personalities, people and processes that go over generations, you know, and it's part of how you keep a huge power block like that in power, they don't just come on the scene after any particular election or event. It's part of an accrual process. And, you know, I'm no expert in things like the Illuminati or, you know, some of the Masons, or some of these ancient power blocks, and I certainly believe that there's truth to all that. But in the 20th century, and in the current century, yes, you can see that these things, trace back to lots of different personalities working for a power structure that has nothing to do with power, as we understand as we hope it is, you know, electing officials and that kind of thing.

14:47:09 Doug Misicko: Give me an idea of a typical article you'll see in the New York Times or something of a like that, that makes you feel like it's validated your belief in the octopus.

14:47:21 Kenn Thomas: Okay, sure. You know, there used to be a zeen called "the lies of the times", that used to come out, like on a quarterly basis, a magazine, and they would just catalogue everything that the New York Times would, would do. That's a lot. But it's like I said before these resignations, you know, in addition to Poindexter and Perle there is there was a guy named Paul Redmond, who was a high mucky muck in the Homeland Security Department who resigned quote, "because of health reasons". And the story behind that is that he was investigating how Osama bin Laden got the PROMIS software through the Russians and through this FBI turncoat guy, Robert Hansen. And in the course of that investigation, he found so much material connecting the Bush and bin Laden families, that he felt he had to resign for health reasons. So... So, you know, again, we're talking about three or four resignations, that that seem to form a clear pattern, I mean, these aren't major figures. Because, you know, you, you make these these lower players, you forced them out and so people think that whatever corruption that represents has been cleansed by the resignations, but we're at the real power continues that way. And there were Pentagon people actually setting up meetings with manager Ghorbanifar, who was Adnan Khashoggi's partners. I mean, these are people they're known quantities. You know, they've been around, Khashoggi goes back to the Lockheed scandal and his you know, so whenever a... you know, whenever anything that the New York Times report says something that that's other than that that's other than trying to understand what that is and trying to get the world away from that, then I think it belongs in that vein, the lies of the time.

14:49:11 Doug Misicko: Right. Speaking to clear patterns, though, don't you feel that this current administration is taking the next step that they're moving it into... say "code red", so to speak?

14:49:24 Kenn Thomas: I'm sorry, moving into what?

14:49:26 Doug Misicko: Into Code Red or whatever, into phase three from phase two, or whatever you want to call it?

14:49:34 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, well, I don't, I don't really expect democracy to break out in the next election. If that's what you're asking?

14:49:40 Doug Misicko: Well, I was gonna ask what you thought would come with the next election? Do you think there will be one? Or do you think there will be a contrived terrorist attack before it happens?

14:49:49 Kenn Thomas: Well, that wouldn't surprise me. If that happened, if you if you look and getting back to this idea that it's just a few people. George Bush, obviously the Vice President of Reagan was it was a power block when he was president. You know, still George Bush. This is George Bush's son. In the interim there, you had Clinton, of course. And that might suggest to you that maybe there is some hope. Maybe you can get some kind of moderately progressive person into the White House. But if you understand the history of Clinton, he realized that he was a player too. There was... there's an airstrip in Mena, Arkansas. And this is like well known among conspiracy researchers, where they were flying guns down to, you know, another continent. Runs guns down in South America and coming back with drugs. And it's a very famous thing that Clinton failed to investigate, deliberately failed to investigate, that ingratiated him into this, this power system. And even he was in a hand. So I would expect something like that to happen in the next election field. They will continue to be as bold as they have been with with this guy.

14:50:57 Doug Misicko: You think Clinton just failed to investigate and wasn't really complicit?

14:51:02 Kenn Thomas: No, no, never ascribe to incompetence, what can be explained by conspiracy. I think that Clinton deliberately soft pedaled that investigation, because he knew it was an Ollie North operation, a Bush operation, an octopus operation and you know, by ingratiating himself in that way, I just, I don't think he knew that he was going to become president at that point. But you know, he knows what side of the bread is buttered on and who butters it. So I think that was what will happen. I would think that it's virtually impossible for Howard Dean to get elected. I mean, whenever we ever elected an anti-war president. So whoever gets in there will be somebody, you know, if they tried to make it look like there's going to be a big change. I wouldn't, I wouldn't look to that because you know, W has now locked us into certain foreign policy initiatives that you can't you're not going to get somebody in there who's just going to say, okay, that's over with.

14:52:04 Doug Misicko: No, it's like I was saying earlier, Gephardt, Lieberman, Kerry, they're just Bush light.

14:52:08 Kenn Thomas: Right? Exactly, exactly. And of course, Kerry's a skull and bones that are right with the Yale secret society, Skull and Bones.

14:52:16 Doug Misicko: Yep, same as Bush.

14:52:18 Kenn Thomas: Bush. And also I'm told, if you looked this up it's not exactly true, Arnold Schwarzenegger actually wears a skull and bones ring. And nobody in it, but it was hand custom for him. This is according to The Washington Post, it's hand custom for him, but somebody they don't know who or where it comes from. But he's a close friend of Bush, too. And so it's like, he's some kind of bastard son of the skull and bones society. Doug Misicko: Yep, same as Bush.

14:52:18 Kenn Thomas: Bush. And also I'm told, if you looked this up it's not exactly true, Arnold Schwarzenegger actually wears a skull and bones ring. And nobody in it, but it was hand custom for him. This is according to The Washington Post, it's hand custom for him, but somebody they don't know who or where it comes from. But he's a close friend of Bush, too. And so it's like, he's some kind of bastard son of the skull and bones society.

14:52:41 Amy Bugbee: Now the thing with Arnold Schwarzenegger, okay, he can become the governor of California. And I understand that, that seems to be... they have him all tied in with the New World Order. But he's not American born so he could never be president. So what is the real use of him?

14:53:00 Unknown: Well, it's all showbiz. You know, the elections are part of the spectacle. Getting back to the situationist theory, that it's all in the society of the spectacle. What I think is going on in the California elections, you had this guy, Darrell Issa, who began the recall initiative. Supposedly because he wanted to run and take over but then after it got started, he pulled out and this guy has his a lot of connections to the Arab world, to the Middle East. And when you think of it in terms of Bush and Bin Ladin, being cozy with each other to try to dislodge the power in California, I think, you know that that was a very serious set of events, and I would look more closely at that. But you know, Schwarzenegger, you're right, he's just another movie star. In many ways. Again, Reagan was a movie star too. And when he was in power, the people who are really in power was you know, Bush on down and Reagan was this the public relations guy. So you're right, technically Schwarzenegger could never become president.

14:54:00 Doug Misicko: Well Schwar...

14:54:01 Kenn Thomas: He could play some kind of...

14:54:02 Doug Misicko: Schwarzenegger's Austrian... Don't many conspiracy theorists feel that the overall centralized command of the Illuminati is based in Bavaria?

14:54:16 Kenn Thomas: That's interesting. I've never heard that line of thinking before, connecting Schwarzenegger up to the Bavarian Illuminati.

14:54:22 Doug Misicko: I haven't either. I was wondering if it was there.

14:54:25 Kenn Thomas: I think he just began a whole new tributary of research.

14:54:28 Doug Misicko: We're gonna see websites...

14:54:31 Shane Bugbee: So Kenn, is there good money in the conspiracy business?

14:54:36 Kenn Thomas: For me, or...

14:54:37 Shane Bugbee: For anyone, for sure you, you make a living off this right?

14:54:40 Kenn Thomas: No, not at all. It's a hobby.

14:54:43 Shane Bugbee: Okay. Do you have another job?

14:54:44 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, I have a day job. I worked as an archivist at a university in the Midwest.

14:54:49 Shane Bugbee: Not that that matters too much. You know...

14:54:51 Kenn Thomas: Having a job, you mean? But yeah...

14:54:54 Kenn Thomas: I'm not a conspiracy writer. I'm not like a person who says, "Wow, God, I love this. I love the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, that's my favorite." You know, they really got away with something in Watergate, that kind of thing. I'm basically an anti-conspiracy. I don't actually like the term conspiracy theory. There's my magazine, Steamshovel Press has as its motto, "all conspiracy, no theory". And my term for this study, and this kind of understanding of current affairs is called para-politics. And I consider myself a para... para-political researcher and writer and all the people that kind of, you know, write for my magazine and do the kind of work I do. That's what I call them, the conspiracy theories, is just like a media handle, and a way of turning, wrapping the laughter curtain around it. Doing it as Mel Gibson movies and X-files TV shows. Kenn Thomas: Having a job, you mean? But yeah...

14:54:54 Kenn Thomas: I'm not a conspiracy writer. I'm not like a person who says, "Wow, God, I love this. I love the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, that's my favorite." You know, they really got away with something in Watergate, that kind of thing. I'm basically an anti-conspiracy. I don't actually like the term conspiracy theory. There's my magazine, Steamshovel Press has as its motto, "all conspiracy, no theory". And my term for this study, and this kind of understanding of current affairs is called para-politics. And I consider myself a para... para-political researcher and writer and all the people that kind of, you know, write for my magazine and do the kind of work I do. That's what I call them, the conspiracy theories, is just like a media handle, and a way of turning, wrapping the laughter curtain around it. Doing it as Mel Gibson movies and X-files TV shows.

14:54:54 Shane Bugbee: No, making money off a conspiracy... Kenn Thomas: I'm not a conspiracy writer. I'm not like a person who says, "Wow, God, I love this. I love the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, that's my favorite." You know, they really got away with something in Watergate, that kind of thing. I'm basically an anti-conspiracy. I don't actually like the term conspiracy theory. There's my magazine, Steamshovel Press has as its motto, "all conspiracy, no theory". And my term for this study, and this kind of understanding of current affairs is called para-politics. And I consider myself a para... para-political researcher and writer and all the people that kind of, you know, write for my magazine and do the kind of work I do. That's what I call them, the conspiracy theories, is just like a media handle, and a way of turning, wrapping the laughter curtain around it. Doing it as Mel Gibson movies and X-files TV shows.

14:54:56 Kenn Thomas: I'm not a conspiracy writer. I'm not like a person who says, "Wow, God, I love this. I love the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, that's my favorite." You know, they really got away with something in Watergate, that kind of thing. I'm basically an anti-conspiracy. I don't actually like the term conspiracy theory. There's my magazine, Steamshovel Press has as its motto, "all conspiracy, no theory". And my term for this study, and this kind of understanding of current affairs is called para-politics. And I consider myself a para... para-political researcher and writer and all the people that kind of, you know, write for my magazine and do the kind of work I do. That's what I call them, the conspiracy theories, is just like a media handle, and a way of turning, wrapping the laughter curtain around it. Doing it as Mel Gibson movies and X-files TV shows.

14:55:01 Amy Bugbee: So do you think Bill Clinton was just a pawn in this or you think he was involved or you think they just, you know, they go and they find dirt on these people or scandals? Kenn Thomas: I'm not a conspiracy writer. I'm not like a person who says, "Wow, God, I love this. I love the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, that's my favorite." You know, they really got away with something in Watergate, that kind of thing. I'm basically an anti-conspiracy. I don't actually like the term conspiracy theory. There's my magazine, Steamshovel Press has as its motto, "all conspiracy, no theory". And my term for this study, and this kind of understanding of current affairs is called para-politics. And I consider myself a para... para-political researcher and writer and all the people that kind of, you know, write for my magazine and do the kind of work I do. That's what I call them, the conspiracy theories, is just like a media handle, and a way of turning, wrapping the laughter curtain around it. Doing it as Mel Gibson movies and X-files TV shows.

14:55:44 Amy Bugbee: So do you think Bill Clinton was just a pawn in this or you think he was involved or you think they just, you know, they go and they find dirt on these people or scandals?

14:55:56 Kenn Thomas: The very day of the impeachment vote, Clinton refunded Star Wars, after having cut off the funding for a number of years. And and Monica Lewinsky, that whole thing... It clearly has the fingerprints of some kind of intelligence operation. The Clinton, like Kennedy was like send interns on a regular basis. There's another famous one, Mary Caitlin Mahoney, who actually wound up being murdered at a Starbucks in DC. So they kind of did something with one of them, Monica Lewinsky to create a public scandal to help manipulate him into refunding Star Wars.

14:56:28 Doug Misicko: So you also believe as I do, that Clinton's support for getting into the presidency was basically rooted in his compliance with the drug running in Arkansas.

14:56:40 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, yeah, I do not. Do not believe that, you know, Clinton and the democrats represent the white hats. The good guys, and the republicans are the bad guys. Like I said, that's a false dialogue. So yeah, Clinton, Clinton was the... a player.

14:56:59 Doug Misicko: Well, it's, it's, it's perfect. It works. People see. People see how extreme Bush is and then they think they're gonna get so much better with the Democrats, and it goes back and forth.

14:57:10 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And one of the strategies being discussed by the DNC now is to get Wesley Clark, military leader on the ticket. It's actually it would actually be a good idea in terms of, you know, if you wanted to think along these lines, in terms of trying to beat W, because a lot of a lot of people buy into this idea that, you know, war hero, you want to vote for war hero over somebody else, because he's more patriotic or whatever.

14:57:35 Doug Misicko: So you're working for the Howard Dean campaign?

14:57:37 Kenn Thomas: [laughs] No, and in fact, I think if they if they did, draft Wesley Clark as the vice presidential candidate, it still has a snowball's chance in hell. They either got to run Clark as a president, or they're not gonna win. Doug Misicko: So you're working for the Howard Dean campaign?

14:57:37 Kenn Thomas: [laughs] No, and in fact, I think if they if they did, draft Wesley Clark as the vice presidential candidate, it still has a snowball's chance in hell. They either got to run Clark as a president, or they're not gonna win.

14:57:54 Doug Misicko: So do you vote?

14:57:55 Kenn Thomas: Do I vote? Not FOR anybody.

14:58:01 Amy Bugbee: So here's a name you haven't heard in a while? What about Shaundra Levy? What do you think? Is that tied in with anything? Are you think that's just a shot in the dark?

14:58:10 Kenn Thomas: Oh, God, Shaundra Levy. Everything that happens in DC is, is something worthy of trying to think of, you know, separate agendas and underlying things. I mean, it would take me I'd have to go back to the file and Chandra Levy, to do something about it. But she does kind of fit into this very old idea and conspiracy theory that there are Stepford Wives and there's a whole community of zombie eyed, women in Washington, DC that are there to service, the political leaders. It's had its most extreme expression in books like "Transformation of America" by Mark Phillips and Cathy O'Brien, and there's another woman named Bryce Taylor, you don't believe in confessionals...how much you want to believe them?

14:59:00 Doug Misicko: You don't believe in that reptilian shit, do you?

14:59:02 Kenn Thomas: They say that they were sex slaves for the CIA or for Washington, political leaders, you gotta wonder if founder leave, you might have fallen into that category. But I couldn't say for sure.

14:59:13 Doug Misicko: Yeah. But the book also had the politicians and the people indulging in this behavior as reptilian creatures. Do you don't...

14:59:22 Kenn Thomas: I always thought that theory was an insult to reptiles.

14:59:25 Doug Misicko: Yeah, I think so too.

14:59:28 Kenn Thomas: Although, you know, there is, again, the, there are a lot of weird people. You know, Cooper was probably one of them, too, that have a lot of weird theories. One of the advantages of my work is that that it's a lot of very strange, weird stuff, but it also has the advantage of actually being true. And you could even make a case for we're talking about David and I can never get this name. Last name, right. David Icke or Ichy.

14:59:52 Doug Misicko: Right.

14:59:53 Kenn Thomas: Yeah. He's the guy with the reptilian theory.

14:59:55 Doug Misicko: Right.

14:59:55 Kenn Thomas: Well, there's a guy named Bill Hastert, actually in southern Florida who has for years been injecting himself with cobra venom. And he's, I've actually seen some footage of him from the early 60s. He's still down there. He thinks he's in his late 80s now, he looks a little bit like a reptile. And of course, his his networking area. His little reality tunnel is with zookeepers and people who run zoos all in St. Louis. He was he was connected to a guy named Marlin Perkins, who was the head of the St. Louis zoo. And these are very wealthy socialites and Marlin Perkins' background was in herpetology, reptiles. So if you really wanted to try to investigate whether there are real reptilian people out there, there are places you could could actually go. Come back and say that the Queen of England transformed into a reptile when nobody's looking, you know, people will line up to see a lecture on that topic.

Hour 16

15:00:50 Doug Misicko: Do you have a website to go along with that? I mean, is what's the guy's name? We can try to look them up.

15:00:56 Kenn Thomas: The Cobra guy?

15:00:56 Doug Misicko: Yeah.

15:00:57 Kenn Thomas: Hastert. H-A-S-T-E-R-T. I think...

15:01:02 Amy Bugbee: That's all very lovecraftian. You know, there's a school of thought out there that all Lovecraft stories were actually truth. Are you familiar with that? Do you think that could be?

15:01:12 Kenn Thomas: I'm not quite sure about that. I know that, you know, I don't want to say that Bill Hastert is a black magician or anything like that. His idea was to slowly inject himself over time with cobra venom to build up immunity to build up a strong immune system. That's why he's living in such a healthy state in his late 80s. I, you know, I'm not trying to say that he practices the dark arts or anything. I'm just saying if you wanted to seriously take the reptilian thing. Seriously, there are places we could actually look.

15:01:40 Doug Misicko: Right. Well, back to 911. Do you have any idea as to why perhaps we don't see any footage, or we only see five stills of the Pentagon crash?

15:01:54 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, there's something about that it didn't actually happen. That didn't actually happen, I think is is the major theory there.

15:02:03 Shane Bugbee: You don't think that happened? Huh?

15:02:04 Kenn Thomas: Well, I'm trying to remember exactly what's been said about it. There's something very peculiar about the damage that was done to the Pentagon, that there's the it was it was like, the was like a whole, you know, and it was it didn't indicate that it was a plane that actually had a wingspan that crashed into it.

15:02:21 Amy Bugbee: Now, on 911 I remember, at the same time, they were saying that the Twin Towers were hit, they also said that Camp David had been destroyed.

15:02:32 Kenn Thomas: Well, that's, that's all... yeah, it's the the thing about the trying to get at the facts is when something like that happens, is just pop a tape into your VCR and start taping everything before they can put the spin on it. And although they've gotten really good at you know, once something happens, they come up with, you know, 15 to 20 seconds of the most inaccurate part of it, and they put that in the news cycle and roll it over and over again. There was a lot of information about the Oklahoma City bonds, for instance, that emerged because while it was happening live, people just just taped, taped the live feed.

15:03:05 Amy Bugbee: What do you think about the Oklahoma City bombing?

15:03:10 Kenn Thomas: Well, these these topics all require a book, McVeigh was course injected with some kind of transponder. He worked for a place called CalFan that created injectable bio transponders and and it was a good soldier and he went to his death you know, not saying everything that needed to be said about it.

15:03:32 Doug Misicko: Explain the injection... I haven't heard of this.

15:03:35 Kenn Thomas: You've never heard of the injectable transponder?

15:03:37 Shane Bugbee: The fiber optics...yeah...

15:03:39 Doug Misicko: Okay for blind people?

15:03:40 Kenn Thomas: He got it in his butt, basically. CalFan which makes these bio telemetric devices for tracking things.

15:03:53 Shane Bugbee: What's the point of them...

15:03:54 Kenn Thomas: The controversy here is whether those devices are also mind control devices.

15:03:56 Shane Bugbee: What's the point of them doing...

15:03:58 Kenn Thomas: That's were Timothy McVeigh worked with them.

15:04:00 Shane Bugbee: What's the point of them doing for having McVeigh do that?

15:04:05 Kenn Thomas: McVeigh or whoever whatever destroyed the Oklahoma City bomb? Shane Bugbee: What's the point of them doing for having McVeigh do that?

15:04:05 Kenn Thomas: McVeigh or whoever whatever destroyed the Oklahoma City bomb?

15:04:09 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

15:04:10 Kenn Thomas: Everything falls under this rubric of the strategy of tension.

15:04:13 Shane Bugbee: Fear.

15:04:14 Kenn Thomas: To create terrorist events in order to create a police state.

15:04:18 Shane Bugbee: To control under fear. Right?

15:04:20 Kenn Thomas: What's that?

15:04:22 Shane Bugbee: Control the people with fear?

15:04:24 Kenn Thomas: ...with fear and terror. Yeah.

15:04:25 Shane Bugbee: I think I you know, I really think I take so much away from McVeigh. I really think he's like some sort of American hero. I really think he was trying to make a statement. I thought he said a lot before he went to his grave. Did you read that book? Kenn Thomas: ...with fear and terror. Yeah.

15:04:25 Shane Bugbee: I think I you know, I really think I take so much away from McVeigh. I really think he's like some sort of American hero. I really think he was trying to make a statement. I thought he said a lot before he went to his grave. Did you read that book?

15:04:38 Kenn Thomas: Do you think he was he was responsible for murdering all those people?

15:04:41 Shane Bugbee: I don't think... I don't even consider it murder. But yeah, I think he did it. And I think he's a...

15:04:46 Kenn Thomas: Why don't you consider it murder?

15:04:49 Shane Bugbee: Well, I think it's justified just by what the government does with waco and all the other bullshit they've done. I think it's I thought it was a revolutionary move. I thought he did it. Based on what the government's done to us hundreds of times over and I think he got lucky doing it. And I don't I think it's um, to put every can everything under a conspiracy type of thing like that. I don't. I just...

15:05:10 Kenn Thomas: I don't really agree with that point of view. I don't think killing innocent people is right. Now, even if you're doing it for a revolutionary perspective.

15:05:19 Shane Bugbee: There's no one inoc... those waco kids were inocent too. Until I mean, you have to

15:05:23 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, but killing another group of innocent people doesn't avenge their death.

15:05:26 Shane Bugbee: Well, you can't lay on your back and take it all the time. You have to get the word out there. You have to do something to to make people look at what you're even saying. I mean, McVeigh did so much for the conspiracy... or to spread the word. Have you ever seen that video day 51? All the great waco videos. I mean, he's done so much.

15:05:46 Amy Bugbee: He went down there for Waco.

15:05:47 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, I mean...

15:05:48 Kenn Thomas: There is a good case to be made that McVeigh didn't do a damn thing. He didn't do anything. ...a stooge, like Oswald. So yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't. I also issue a newsletter, steamshovelpress.com.

15:06:01 Shane Bugbee: Have you read American terrorist?

15:06:03 Kenn Thomas: What's that?

15:06:03 Shane Bugbee: Have you read the book American terrorist?

15:06:05 Kenn Thomas: I don't think so. But like I said, I've written things under the rubric of the terror mirror and what you have. You have, you know, people calling each other terrorists, our government and the terrorists over in the Middle East. And that the normal person, the average, everyday person is stuck between those. And I'm not going to be sitting on the sides and being a cheerleader for for Osama bin Laden any more than I would for George Bush. I mean, those aren't our options. We don't have to play that game.

15:06:33 Shane Bugbee: Well, you know, you have to fight back. Ya' know?

15:06:37 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, you do. But you know, it's not. You know, I'd never get on a radio program like this and advocate that you've gotten murdered a bunch of innocent people.

15:06:46 Shane Bugbee: But I didn't necessarily say advocated. I think I respect... I said, I respect that. I didn't say I advocate it.

15:06:52 Kenn Thomas: Well, I mean, I respectfully disagree with you.

15:06:55 Shane Bugbee: I didn't, I didn't advocate it. I respect what they do I respect. I think that he was a brave person. I think that's a brave thing to do.

15:07:04 Amy Bugbee: So does that make you a pacifist? Do you believe in no acts of war, period?

15:07:11 Kenn Thomas: No, I believe in creative engagement and...

15:07:14 Shane Bugbee: Nothing more creative than fighting tanks and FBI with a bunch of manure.

15:07:20 Kenn Thomas: Well, yeah, you know, our, you know, throwing dollar bills, off the balcony at the stock exchange, that kind of thing, you know, we'll create a counter revolt that... I don't know, this, this footage actually, is long lost now, there's actually footage of me and Allen Ginsberg and Abbie Hoffman, talking about this very topic. And the difference between like, passively accepting what happens to you and being a pacifist, you know, the difference between pacifism and passive and the importance of, of actually doing something and not being just a victim. But none of those guys and I don't think it... just isn't common sense to me to throw bombs. You know, I send books before bombs.

15:08:05 Shane Bugbee: So you think the Palestinians should be starting to write books instead of strapping bombs on them?

15:08:10 Kenn Thomas: I I'd certainly like to read a lot more books by the Palestinians. But...

15:08:16 Shane Bugbee: it's sort of a crazy fight. It's like David and Goliath. These guys come down the block with eight big black helicopters, and blast the fuck out of a Palestinian neighborhood. And they strap a bomb onto a 13 year old kid.

15:08:27 Kenn Thomas: Yeah...

15:08:28 Shane Bugbee: It's sort of a desperate act. I think McVeigh what McVeigh did with terrorists. People call these people terrorists. It's a last act. It's a desperate act of a desperate people.

15:08:36 Kenn Thomas: Well, I mean, the thing is, though, there are different theories about McVeigh: A) That he didn't do anything. B) That he was actually a good soldier that he went to his grave...

15:08:44 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, they create all this for gun control, for fear but i don't i don't believe that. I don't believe at all. I think he's a desperate person in a desperate time. And those that act those call for Desperate Measures sometimes, you know, I think McVeigh in the in the long run in the history books will go down to some sort of American hero or if not someone who tried to be tried to do the right thing or tried to do something he thought was right.

15:09:10 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't close the door on that. That idea. Actually, my my whole approach is to try to encourage everybody to look at everything in as many ways as possible and reach their own conclusion. So I wouldn't say that, you know. You're totally wrong there. I just I just can't advocate.

15:09:28 Shane Bugbee: I never advocated anything. Okay. I don't I don't I don't want my family blown up in a building any more than I want anyone else like I appreciate.

15:09:37 Kenn Thomas: Fine, right? Well...

15:09:37 Shane Bugbee: I don't I'm not asking for that. But I also I also say when you have had enough maybe Obama made us shake things up a little maybe make something happen. I don't. Kenn Thomas: Fine, right? Well...

15:09:37 Shane Bugbee: I don't I'm not asking for that. But I also I also say when you have had enough maybe Obama made us shake things up a little maybe make something happen. I don't.

15:09:47 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, I agree.

15:09:48 Shane Bugbee: I just gotta tell you, I'm just pissed.

15:09:50 Kenn Thomas: It's more than just killing people. Shane Bugbee: I just gotta tell you, I'm just pissed.

15:09:50 Kenn Thomas: It's more than just killing people.

15:09:52 Shane Bugbee: I'm more pissed off at a goddamn government that goes into waco and slaughters a fucking kids while they run out the back door. They shoot them down. They could have starved those people out. They could have did a lot more. A lot of you know, Ruby Ridge, all these kinds of craz-. That really pisses me off. Kenn Thomas: It's more than just killing people.

15:09:52 Shane Bugbee: I'm more pissed off at a goddamn government that goes into waco and slaughters a fucking kids while they run out the back door. They shoot them down. They could have starved those people out. They could have did a lot more. A lot of you know, Ruby Ridge, all these kinds of craz-. That really pisses me off.

15:10:05 Kenn Thomas: I agree, there's a lot of rage to be had there.

15:10:06 Shane Bugbee: It's disgusting, man,.I think for every kid, I think for every kid that died in that building a building should fall. I think I think that those 100 kids, those 50 children that died and then 50 women that died in Waco take out 100 buildings .100 federal buildings, maybe that's a good idea. No?

15:10:24 Kenn Thomas: Each one of them was a nursery, though with other children. You know...

15:10:27 Shane Bugbee: I'll tell you, if there was a federal building taking down each state.

15:10:31 Kenn Thomas: They kept showing the footage of the towers falling over and over again. Yeah, on that day and a lot. There were kids out there who thought that every time they thought it was a different building, there was only terrorized by the concept that that's what was going on.

15:10:45 Shane Bugbee: Well, I uh...

15:10:47 Amy Bugbee: So what about the... What do you think about the media manipulation of the Israeli - Palestinian situation where the Israelis are made to look like these good guys being terrorized by these horrible Palestinians, when in reality, they're going in and bombing refugee camps. And all the Palestinians are forced to live in refugee camps, because their homes and all everything has been taken from them? It seems like they're doing exactly what was done to them by the Nazis, to the Palestinians.

15:11:15 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, I don't like that. And I totally agree with you.

15:11:19 Shane Bugbee: And now these people alone, that they're not supposed to fight back. I mean, what do they do?

15:11:23 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, we don't even have the language of occupation that they understand, you know, the Palestinians are occupied, you know, they are an invading force has taken them over, and we don't really see it that way. We have these these these plans is to try to get them to live peacefully coexist with people who have invaded them.

15:11:43 Doug Misicko: What's the octopus perspective on this, or is there one?

15:11:45 Kenn Thomas: And the measure of it? Is there the Palestinians propensity to commit suicide, you know, that it's, it's a better option for them to do that than it is to live in the slavery that Israel is trying to impose upon them.

15:11:59 Doug Misicko: Right. Is there an idea of, of a of a plan as far as Israel Palestine goes and octopus context?

15:12:10 Kenn Thomas: Yes. Yeah, Israel, was discussed, Israel was one of the one of the states that bought the promis software from this guy, Earl, Brian. And again, in fact, there was a group of people of Mossad agents posing as art students, this is one of the things that you can find out in "the shadow government" book I was telling you about there was there was clearly foreknowledge of 911 by the Mossad. It was a it was a spy group that was posing as art students, you can find this in "the shadow government". But also in the, Caballero I wrote extensively about Israel being involved in in PROMIS and that whole coalition. There is a, there's a long chapter chapter in the article called the hagiography, which kind of goes through state by state about our, you know, country by country, the countries that that took on the PROMIS software and how they've used it, you know, different warfare scenarios.

15:13:11 Doug Misicko: ...and PROMIS , similar to ECHELON.

15:13:14 Kenn Thomas: Well, PROMIS is... Echelon is is run on some version of PROMIS is like millions and millions of lines of code and is infinitely permeable, and it's chief function... And one of the one of the things that castle arrows. resurrecting is the idea that it was outfitted with a backdoor, so that its purpose was to track criminals through various prosecutors' offices. But once people, once these different police agencies bought it, they bought the capacity of our intelligence groups to spy on what they were doing. And the other aspects of promise off and the thing that makes it so attractive to Osama bin Laden, is that it has this extrapolative property, you feed it all this information, and they can tell you what the next move is of the person that you found the information on. This is how Osama bin Laden knows, you know that they're coming after him in Tora Bora, and that, you know, he can get out of there in time. I mean, the guy's got kidney problems and osteoporosis. He's like the most sickly guy and we have this huge, vast apparatus and we can't seem to catch them. And part of that is because of the PROMIS thing.

15:14:16 Doug Misicko: Did you know The European Union actually had a discussion about the Echelon project because they were afraid of it. They were afraid it would be used to give participating countries an economic edge that it would be used for corporate sabotage?

15:14:32 Kenn Thomas: Yeah, I've heard of that. That seems to be the least of, of its capacities.

15:14:37 Doug Misicko: Yeah. But it was just interesting for something that was supposedly denied. This provoked...

15:14:43 Kenn Thomas: ...hat even exist yet. Right.

15:14:44 Doug Misicko: This provoked me into calling, I actually called the National Security Agency because I was interested to see that this was going on. And I...

15:14:52 Kenn Thomas: It's not the NSA that controls the Echelon satellites. It's the National Reconnaissance Office. NRO working for the NWO, I guess.

15:15:01 Doug Misicko: Really?

15:15:01 Kenn Thomas: Yeah. That's the point that needs to be made time and again, people say that it's the CIA doing all this stuff at the CIA barely has a 10th of the budget of things like the NSA or the DIA or NRO.

15:15:11 Doug Misicko: Right? Well, I called the National Security Agency and they kept me on the line for a long time. And then they told me that they neither confirm nor deny the Echelon project. Although the European Union apparently even had pictures.

15:15:23 Kenn Thomas: Yeah. I've got a I got a lecture to get to. I'm gonna have to cut the interview short.

15:15:28 Doug Misicko: Okay, no problem. Thank you very much.

15:15:30 Shane Bugbee: Kenn, how do we find out more about your ew books?

15:15:33 Kenn Thomas: steamshovelpress.com. Steamshovel Press is like one word .com that's that's the website of my magazines. You know, my, my, a lot of my writing appears on there too. And you can order my books that way.

15:15:47 Doug Misicko: Ken, No shit. It was great talking to you.

15:15:49 Kenn Thomas: That was quite fun. Thanks a lot. And hopefully we'll we'll talk again soon.

15:15:52 Shane Bugbee: Thanks a lot, Ken.

15:15:57 Doug Misicko: I like them.

15:15:58 Shane Bugbee: No, it was cool. Yeah, it was cool, man. I mean, he talks a little too much. But hell after 12 hours of being there talking. I didn't mind that was a nice break for my job, mon.

15:16:10 Doug Misicko: I mean, I feel a little bad. It seems like we expected to know everything. But you know...

15:16:14 Shane Bugbee: Well, no, I mean the... That he does make money off of conspiracy, first of all. He sells books. He gets paid to write books. I mean, he's making money off it. Which is not...

15:16:25 Doug Misicko: What he say? He's an architect?

15:16:26 Shane Bugbee: Well, yeah, it's not a bad thing. He's making money off of it.

15:16:29 Doug Misicko: No, not at all.

15:16:29 Shane Bugbee: I don't mind that. It's just you know. I also don't see a conspiracy in everything some things that life is just that's the fucking way it is. people stay in power for they're in power, and they like to stay in power. So they beat you down, they fuck you up. They scare you. They make you not have as much money as them, to stay in power. I mean, that's just the fucking way it is, you know?

15:16:51 Doug Misicko: Well, I I don't think McVeigh worked alone. I think there is...

15:16:54 Shane Bugbee: I didn't say he worked alone. And as a matter of fact, I don't I don't know. I never said he worked alone. But I don't think he was with the government. I think, I don't think that at all. I think people do a disservice to a lot of actions, like the power like the terrorists that bombed that flew the planes into the Twin Towers, they do a disservice that kind of stuff. He's talking about creative action. There's nothing more creative than taking a plane and fucking up 5000 people with it. There's nothing more creative than then. You know, fucking blowing down a building with manure. Cow shit in a rented truck.

15:17:28 Doug Misicko: Sure. I don't think you work with the government. But I think it worked with other people.

15:17:31 Shane Bugbee: He did. Absolutely.

15:17:32 Doug Misicko: But I think I really think the basis for the loan nut theory is to make it seem like the problem solved. And then when you have a group of people, it puts it in a whole different contexts. It makes people realize that other people agree with this. You can't blame it on a single maniac.

15:17:48 Shane Bugbee: They can't let the American public know how easy it is to get away with some shit. They've got to make it seem like we catch it. We got it. We got the three guys. There was a whole underground working with them. The lady who wrote the afterword or the editor's note to minors right last time. Katja Lane, David lane, the whole 14 words movement, those people were robbing Brinks trucks and robbing banks, amounting a lot of money to start a revolution these people are robbing banks. These are the fucking that's how they're getting their money for guns for to do this kind of to do this kind of stuff. So there is a whole underground that's out there flourishing right now.

15:18:24 Amy Bugbee: Also, you have to make the point that at that Oklahoma City federal building, there was no people of importance at work that day.

15:18:33 Shane Bugbee: That's right. Yeah, cocksucker can you get him back on the phone that motherfucker? Right, exactly right, Amy. They cleared out all those FBI agents and all those old fucking men with colon cancer, but they left the kids in the building. So you killed those kids.

15:18:46 Amy Bugbee: And they let the administrative staff and their children take the blast...

15:18:50 Shane Bugbee: Exactly.

15:18:51 Amy Bugbee: ...as their whatever sacrifice.

15:18:53 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. Because they knew because you know what, as much as McVeigh and those groups that want to cause some trouble or shake things up want to do stuff. I believe that they knew about like you're saying, Doug. LaVey worked in a group just like these terrorists are the the gentlemen that ran into the buildings in New York, they work in a group and I don't believe anything gets passed. What the fuck the control of this government as in the power they have, I don't think one fucking thing it's under their nose. They got so much of a grip on us, which it's almost a lost cause. This is a slave state and that's the way it's gonna stay and McVeigh they stopped 100 McVeigh's they let McVeigh through for a reason you're absolutely right they let McVeigh do that and they let his group do it just like they let those fucking buildings, those planes flying into those buildings. There's no fucking way you don't know about a goddamn hunk of steel flying in the sky like that you got FAA all these you know... Amy Bugbee: ...as their whatever sacrifice.

15:18:53 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. Because they knew because you know what, as much as McVeigh and those groups that want to cause some trouble or shake things up want to do stuff. I believe that they knew about like you're saying, Doug. McVay worked in a group just like these terrorists are the the gentlemen that ran into the buildings in New York, they work in a group and I don't believe anything gets passed. What the fuck the control of this government as in the power they have, I don't think one fucking thing it's under their nose. They got so much of a grip on us, which it's almost a lost cause. This is a slave state and that's the way it's gonna stay and McVeigh they stopped 100 McVeigh's they let McVeigh through for a reason you're absolutely right they let McVeigh do that and they let his group do it just like they let those fucking buildings, those planes flying into those buildings. There's no fucking way you don't know about a goddamn hunk of steel flying in the sky like that you got FAA all these you know...

15:19:02 Amy Bugbee: I wonder why they read news stories that Camp David was blown up for a good two days before they said oh it was a mistake, you know? Which old guys with colon cancer? Shane Bugbee: Exactly. Because they knew because you know what, as much as McVeigh and those groups that want to cause some trouble or shake things up want to do stuff. I believe that they knew about like you're saying, Doug. McVay worked in a group just like these terrorists are the the gentlemen that ran into the buildings in New York, they work in a group and I don't believe anything gets passed. What the fuck the control of this government as in the power they have, I don't think one fucking thing it's under their nose. They got so much of a grip on us, which it's almost a lost cause. This is a slave state and that's the way it's gonna stay and McVeigh they stopped 100 McVeigh's they let McVeigh through for a reason you're absolutely right they let McVeigh do that and they let his group do it just like they let those fucking buildings, those planes flying into those buildings. There's no fucking way you don't know about a goddamn hunk of steel flying in the sky like that you got FAA all these you know...

15:19:47 Amy Bugbee: I wonder why they read news stories that Camp David was blown up for a good two days before they said oh it was a mistake, you know? Which old guys with colon cancer?

15:19:59 Shane Bugbee: You know which old guys... who's asking that?

15:20:03 Amy Bugbee: I just said "old guys with colon cancer".

15:20:06 Shane Bugbee: What is Beavis and Butthead on those boards?

15:20:08 Amy Bugbee: Well, the chat room was very taken with your prank called the psychic hotline.

15:20:13 Doug Misicko: Oh, they like that. You know... Remember last night we're so tired. We're losing track of what you were saying?

15:20:20 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

15:20:20 Doug Misicko: Well now it's to the point I'm losing track of what Shane's saying, while he's talking.

15:20:24 Shane Bugbee: That's good. Get over on you now you fucker.

15:20:29 Doug Misicko: Oh, here it comes...

15:20:30 Shane Bugbee: Survival of, the most fucked up.

15:20:33 Amy Bugbee: Hello.

15:20:34 Honey Hellfire: Hi.

15:20:35 Amy Bugbee: Hey, honey.

15:20:36 Honey Hellfire: Hi, how are you?

15:20:37 Shane Bugbee: Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Honey's calling, huh?

15:20:40 Amy Bugbee: What an honor!

15:20:42 Shane Bugbee: Hello? Hey.

15:20:44 Honey Hellfire: How are you?

15:20:45 Amy Bugbee: Oh, crazed, exhausted.

15:20:49 Shane Bugbee: Crazed, exhausted, tired. hungry. neglected.

15:20:53 Honey Hellfire: No shit, I don't doubt it.

15:20:55 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. You do a radio show for this cheap station...

15:21:00 Honey Hellfire: Yeah.

15:21:01 Amy Bugbee: You did that exhaustive hour show.

15:21:04 Honey Hellfire: Well, I it used to be three. But, you know, I was just saying I did a three hour show. And I can just imagine what it's like for you guys.

15:21:11 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Honey, did you hear that song we play? Did you hear that song, we played for ya? It was unreleased. Tell her about it...

15:21:18 Doug Misicko: Yeah. It was a Revolting Cocks track, unreleased, they did "Let's get physical" by Olivia Newton John. They had to redo it because she sued. We played the original.

15:21:28 Honey Hellfire: Well, I'm gonna have to listen to it again. I can do that. You know?

15:21:31 Doug Misicko: You guys had it all recorded, huh?

15:21:33 Honey Hellfire: Uh-hu.

15:21:33 Doug Misicko: Nice.

15:21:34 Amy Bugbee: The whole show?

15:21:35 Honey Hellfire: Yeah.

15:21:37 Doug Misicko: So how are we doing, Honey? Lay it on us.

15:21:39 Honey Hellfire: Yeah, you're doing really well.

15:21:40 Shane Bugbee: Come over and I'm lay it on us Honey.

15:21:42 Doug Misicko: I want to. I do, you guys sound like you're having a hell of a lot of fun. Actually, if I could I'd be out there but...

15:21:50 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna start breaking out the wine in a couple hours.

15:21:52 Amy Bugbee: We haven't even even started drinking yet.

15:21:55 Doug Misicko: What do you think of Kenn Thomas?

15:21:57 Honey Hellfire: I'm sorry?

15:21:58 Doug Misicko: What did you think of Kenn Thomas?

15:22:00 Honey Hellfire: Jeez, I can barely hear you guys.

15:22:02 Shane Bugbee: Oh, Kenn Thomas, can you hear us? Oh, maybe? How about now? Honey Hellfire: Jeez, I can barely hear you guys.

15:22:02 Shane Bugbee: Oh, Kenn Thomas, can you hear us? Oh, maybe? How about now?

15:22:05 Amy Bugbee: The guest that was just on, what do you think of him?

15:22:09 Honey Hellfire: Um, actually, I didn't get to capture him. It was in the chat room.

15:22:13 Doug Misicko: Awwwe. What are you chatting about, If you're not listening?

15:22:17 Honey Hellfire: I was listening...

15:22:18 Doug Misicko: All right.

15:22:20 Amy Bugbee: A lot of it sounded Greek to me.

15:22:23 Shane Bugbee: So what's your take on all the stuff that's going on? Honey?

15:22:26 Honey Hellfire: September, 11th?

15:22:27 Shane Bugbee: Sure.

15:22:28 Honey Hellfire: Oh, man. I could go off about September 11, really.

15:22:33 Doug Misicko: Go ahead.

15:22:34 Honey Hellfire: I was there. And I was listening to it on the radio and people are freaking out about what's going on. Doug Misicko: Go ahead.

15:22:34 Honey Hellfire: I was there. And I was listening to it on the radio and people are freaking out about what's going on.

15:22:39 Doug Misicko: You were where?

15:22:40 Honey Hellfire: My only thought was "that bastard."

15:22:43 Shane Bugbee: Who's that bastartd as in George W?

15:22:45 Honey Hellfire: Yeah. Because, you know, the first question that you asked whenever you're, you know, thinking, who's a guilty party in something is who gains. And George Bush before that happened was the laughingstock of the world. And after that happened, he was the world's baby. And from there on, he got everything that he wanted that he wanted to get away with before.

15:23:07 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

15:23:08 Doug Misicko: Not only that, but the Israelis ran a mock right afterwards, because they knew there wouldn't be media coverage of that.

15:23:14 Shane Bugbee: It is that basic, isn't it? Honey?

15:23:16 Honey Hellfire: You know, I really just think who gains. And that's all there is to it.

15:23:20 Shane Bugbee: It is that basic. You're absolutely right. It's that simple.

15:23:23 Honey Hellfire: Yeah. That's all I could go. But really, really, really upsets me. I mean, the government pisses me off to no end. But what gets me is the way the American people are. Because...

15:23:39 Shane Bugbee: How so?

15:23:41 Honey Hellfire: Because...

15:23:44 Doug Misicko: The herd just takes what they're fed.

15:23:46 Honey Hellfire: I'm sorry?

15:23:46 Doug Misicko: The herd just takes what they're fed.

15:23:49 Honey Hellfire: Well, yeah, that and their attitudes, because they all have this holier than thou. Oh, we feel so sorry for all those poor people that died in that. And oh, but we should be allowed to wear jeans to work that day or have the day off because it's a holiday.

15:24:06 Amy Bugbee: If that was a lie what was being said in the chat room while Kenn Thomas was on about how nine-eleven's becoming a holiday.

15:24:19 Honey Hellfire: Oh, yeah, that was me.

15:24:20 Shane Bugbee: Oh, it is a celebration for some.

15:24:22 Honey Hellfire: Yeah!

15:24:23 Shane Bugbee: I'm not saying me. I'm not advocating eating guacamole and salsa on 911. Nor am I advocating killing 100 cops a day.

15:24:30 Amy Bugbee: Well, I am.

15:24:31 Shane Bugbee: Whoa! So did you tell it did I hear that the stream went down for a little bit when he was talking conspiracy?

15:24:40 Honey Hellfire: It was skipping here and there.

15:24:42 Shane Bugbee: Oh, you think that's spooky? What?

15:24:45 Honey Hellfire: I said, "they are onto you."

15:24:46 Shane Bugbee: Uh-Oh, fuck.

15:24:48 That's the only time that's happened...

15:24:50 Doug Misicko: Also,honey, I want to add the disclaimer that nobody here on this show has advocated killing the president. We have not advocated killing the president.

15:25:01 Amy Bugbee: Well then, I'm gonna change that right now.

15:25:03 Shane Bugbee: I wouldn't...

15:25:05 Honey Hellfire: Run the disclaimer.

15:25:06 Doug Misicko: Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't take that stand if I were you.

15:25:09 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, Amy.

15:25:10 Amy Bugbee: I'm just kidding.

15:25:11 Doug Misicko: She's about.. she meant she was about to accuse somebody else of having done that.

15:25:14 Shane Bugbee: You understand, Amy, that takes you to jail. Right?

15:25:17 Amy Bugbee: I know. I know. Okay.

15:25:20 Shane Bugbee: Anyone out there looking for a room?

15:25:24 Honey Hellfire: I'm sorry?

15:25:25 Doug Misicko: The whore of horrors is coming to your cell.

15:25:28 Amy Bugbee: Shane's replacing me already. He'ss getting ready for my prison sentence.

15:25:33 Shane Bugbee: My goodness, Amy...

15:25:34 Honey Hellfire: Oh, you know, I thought they came in took you away over your lunch break.

15:25:37 Shane Bugbee: Did you?

15:25:38 Honey Hellfire: Yeah.

15:25:38 Shane Bugbee: No we just... Honey Hellfire: Yeah.

15:25:38 Shane Bugbee: No we just...

15:25:40 Honey Hellfire: It's been a while, he got hauled off on the Patriot Act or something. We'll never hear from them again.

15:25:44 Shane Bugbee: Well, we got a hot tub here. We just all got in the hot tub and relax and smoke couple cigars. You know, talking. Saying Fuck. Fuck the crowd.

15:25:53 Honey Hellfire: Tell me, I want to be there.

15:25:55 Doug Misicko: Then we saw a suspicious looking floater and we got a pool and came back here.

15:26:03 Honey Hellfire: To funny. You guys. Even doing this live stuff more often, right?

15:26:08 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah. Whatever. We'll do. 24 hours. Three days a week.

15:26:14 Honey Hellfire: Yeah, right.

15:26:16 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

15:26:17 Doug Misicko: I'll arrange my schedule. Get three days off. I'll come here all for em.

15:26:21 Honey Hellfire: Well, I'll just have to be there. Whenever you guys do your next live show. I'll just have to be there.

15:26:25 Shane Bugbee: Oh, we should do some for Halloween. Honey. We should do a nice party or something. And do something. Something similar.

15:26:32 Honey Hellfire: Yeah, that was fun.

15:26:33 Shane Bugbee: But maybe not as exhaustive.

15:26:37 Honey Hellfire: It was a lot of fun.

15:26:39 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah. We have to do it again this year, though.

15:26:42 Honey Hellfire: Yeah. We'll see about that. I'm gonna be busy over Halloween.

15:26:47 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah. you're recording right?

15:26:48 Honey Hellfire: Yeah...

15:26:49 Shane Bugbee: Oh, that's cool. No?

15:26:50 Honey Hellfire: No one out in radio land knows about that, though. Shane Bugbee: Oh, that's cool. No?

15:26:50 Honey Hellfire: No one out in radio land knows about that, though.

15:26:53 Shane Bugbee: They do?

15:26:53 Honey Hellfire: No.

15:26:54 Shane Bugbee: Oh, I'm sorry.

15:26:56 Honey Hellfire: There's a little secret for everyone out there.

15:26:58 Shane Bugbee: We're breaking news right now.

15:27:00 Doug Misicko: You heard it here first, from us.

15:27:03 Shane Bugbee: You heard it here first, Honey Hellfire has just joined.

15:27:09 Amy Bugbee: ...coming out with our top 10 CD.

15:27:13 Doug Misicko: Find that Cobra man. Get him to do a train. I'm serious. I got to look this guy up. I never heard of this. I have to confirm what Kenn Thomas was saying. Did you catch that? She said he said there's a guy in Texas or some shit.

15:27:28 Amy Bugbee: Who injects himself with Cobra...

15:27:30 Doug Misicko: Yeah, he injects himself with cobra venom. And that he he's taking on the features of a reptilian.

15:27:39 Amy Bugbee: Well, one thing I can say about Kenn Thomas's he is not a reader of Lovecraft. Because lovecrafts whole theory was that we were lizards. And that there was still races of lizards that lived under the water and in caves. Wasn't about the dark arts or anything.

15:27:58 Honey Hellfire: And where did you find those mushrooms?

15:28:03 Doug Misicko: You could summon them by use of the Necronomicon.

15:28:07 Honey Hellfire: Ah, I see.

15:28:09 Amy Bugbee: Someone is inquiring about our next guest already.

15:28:12 Shane Bugbee: Oh, who's our next guest?

15:28:13 Doug Misicko: Yeah. Who's that?

15:28:14 Amy Bugbee: Eugene!

15:28:15 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah. When do we call him? Do you know who Eugene is, Honey?

15:28:21 Honey Hellfire: No, I don't.

15:28:22 Shane Bugbee: This is a guy Amy dug up. Is a guy who has been quote like Parfrey, Boyde Rice. The Rollins...

15:28:28 Amy Bugbee: power fry was just a punky little...What is that? Inheiritance kid.

15:28:41 Honey Hellfire: I won't be around to hear it.

15:28:43 Amy Bugbee: Too bad.

15:28:44 Honey Hellfire: I'm gonna have to tune in. I'm just gonna... You know, I can do that. I'll have to listen to it later.

15:28:50 Amy Bugbee: All right. Sure you will...

15:28:53 Honey Hellfire: Take care you guys I'm hoping that I'll be able to do something live with you later in the future.

15:28:58 Shane Bugbee: Whoo. Yeah, soon.

15:29:01 Honey Hellfire: Yes, me and my bone.

15:29:02 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah, exactly.

15:29:05 Honey Hellfire: Later, guys.

15:29:06 Shane Bugbee: Hey, see you later, Honey.

15:29:08 Amy Bugbee: Thanks for calling.

15:29:09 Honey Hellfire: No problem.

15:29:10 Doug Misicko: Bye.

15:29:13 Amy Bugbee: Good ol' Honey Hellfire checking in.

15:29:15 Shane Bugbee: Oh yeah. The best radio show on Radio Free Satan.

15:29:19 Amy Bugbee: Walls are...

15:29:20 Shane Bugbee: Doug, get the fuck out of here, you fucking prick! Fuck Motherfucker oh god damn it.

15:29:26 Amy Bugbee: You fucked up that wall Doug.

15:29:29 Doug Misicko: It's cool.

15:29:31 Shane Bugbee: You know a one armed bandit I got the one eyed bandit.

15:29:36 Doug Misicko: It's in order, the wall is still standing.

15:29:39 Shane Bugbee: Oh you know what? You know what I just forgot?

15:29:42 Amy Bugbee: What?

15:29:43 Shane Bugbee: I forgot that we probably should play one of these one of these lovely...

15:29:56 Canned Audio: [potato quality audio]

15:30:53 Pre-record (fem): Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of radio for Satan or Mephisto media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know and some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot, and we refuse to be held responsible for your stupidity. In short, don't try this at home or at all.

15:31:38 Doug Misicko: Natural selection and modern civilizations have ceased to exist. Today we live in a world overpopulated with bottom feeders. The pool is overfilled. With the drugs, there is no inherent value on human life. The value is earned and most people are running a deficit. They're worse than worthless. They're counter-productive. What can be done? www.dysgenics.com.

15:32:13 Shane Bugbee: Evilnow.com your home for hate. Evilnow.com your home for Satan. Evilnow.com we love to hate you.

15:32:30 Pre-record (masc): It affects stupid people have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals. Preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, always females some sort of intrauterine device insists they wear it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are with our professional athletes committed to quality and service. But as soon as you go in the back of the shop and listen to that thing radio shows while you're paying. That's radio station. [racist music]

15:44:13 Amy Bugbee: Good old skinny puppy.

15:44:15 Shane Bugbee: Oh yeah, I'm gonna try something out here and you're just gonna have to deal with it because I don't know what these are. So I'm gonna play them. We're gonna find out what they are. Ok?

15:44:30 Doug Misicko: You talking sound files on computer?

15:44:33 Unknown: Girl animal ins. This is the Battle of sex an animal act so desperately.

15:44:45 Shane Bugbee: Okay, we found one, Amy. Found the Lydia lunch track.

15:44:49 Amy Bugbee: Okay.

15:44:49 Shane Bugbee: Talk a little about Eugene.

15:44:50 Amy Bugbee: All right, well, coming up, we're gonna play some tracks from a record that I've had for many a year probably like 15 years averted tragedy, and I found it in a record store when I was about 18. Whoa, No, I wasn't 18. Don't add that up. And it has Anton Levey on it... other people, and I really enjoyed it. And I ordered the magazines through the back of the album, the birth of tragedy magazine. And, well, our next guest is going to be the publisher of those magazines and the creator of the birth of tragedy album. Eugene Robinson. Eugene is the reason that Adam Parfrey publishes and the reason that Boyde Rice does whatever it is that he does, he was he was their inspiration. So...

15:45:55 Shane Bugbee: Okay, so I'd say we'd play this Lydia Lunch track.

15:45:58 Amy Bugbee: Sounds good.

15:45:59 Shane Bugbee: What time are we calling Eugene?

15:46:00 Amy Bugbee: We're gonna come in about five minutes.

15:46:02 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Rich, am I too close to the mic now? Two minute delay. Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna play this track and enjoy. Then we're gonna call Eugene.

15:46:30 Lydia Lunch: This is the Battle of sex as an animal act, fucked up by your emotions. The human animal struggles vainly to control his natural animal instincts, so it'd be better able to fit into the norm of society, a contradiction in terms. Sometimes, however, either due to chemical or hormonal imbalance, a fist of facts, or a flagrant disregard for the outdated and inhibitions so called code of ethics. The thin line which separates the animal from the vegetable is obliterated, leaving them free to intoxicate their need to fulfill the lowest common denominator. With the mating of bird ignorance and the sheer force of will they are willing to meet and greet any danger no matter how devastating the consequences in order to fewer the necessary agitation, which feeds their entire existence. Without the stimulating and toxic and the banality of their boring and miserable lives, becomes to chronic and depressing a constant to bear only through the threat of constant danger, or the imprisonment of incomprehensive or pain. Can they find a suitable distraction to veer them away from the doll reality which they seek so desperately to escape? The reality that they will never ever be? Another Charles Manson, Jim Morrison, Jim Jones, jack the Ripper, Tex Ritter, Clint Eastwood, Mario Andretti, Mohammed, les Lenny Bruce, Lizzie burden, Andy Warhol or Albert Einstein. The fact that they're going to be struggling every other day of their lousy goddamn lives just to be able to afford the cost of living yet another heartless, rotten existence full of hard eggs, bomb deals, bad trips, burnouts, rip offs, fuck ups and every other stinking lousy abuse. You want to fling in the face of these poor miserable Bull misfit reject loser outlaws here, outlaws the kind of people that don't fit in to your society, because to fit in would be the kiss of death doll, john square. So instead, they pretend they're neo nazis would might stick Dix no brains but banging into yours in the middle of the goddamn night looking for whatever you're doing that don't fit right in with their ideologically unsound concept of reality and how they want to alter yours by offering you up as some kind of human sacrifice. All the while trying to see if you're pigheaded or chicken hard enough to beg for your life once they've got you hard time. And I'm all for animal liberation. And the right to be a pig. Because that's what it's all about.

15:50:47 Shane Bugbee: Hello. [Ringing] We're dialing Eugene.

15:50:55 Eugene Robinson: Hello.

15:50:56 Amy Bugbee: Eugene?

15:50:57 Eugene Robinson: Yes.

15:50:58 Amy Bugbee: Hi, it's Amy.

15:50:59 Eugene Robinson: Hey Amy, what are you doing?

15:51:00 Amy Bugbee: A radio show. Eugene Robinson: Hey Amy, what are you doing?

15:51:00 Amy Bugbee: A radio show.

15:51:05 Eugene Robinson: We aren't on the air now, are we?

15:51:07 Amy Bugbee: I believe we are. Are you ready?

15:51:10 Eugene Robinson: I am ready as ready as I'm gonna be. You're nice and soft. Actually four minutes early, but that's cool. Can you can you hear me?

15:51:19 Amy Bugbee: I can hear you. Great. Can you hear us?

15:51:21 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, exactly. You guys nice and clear.

15:51:24 Shane Bugbee: Really?

15:51:25 Amy Bugbee: Excellent. Sounds good, huh Gene?

15:51:28 Eugene Robinson: I can, I can't I can't hear the male voice quite as well. But that's alright. Maybe it's just me. There's a... There's a delay on your voice. But how are you guys doing?

15:51:42 Amy Bugbee: We're getting deranged. We've been on the air since midnight. So...

15:51:46 Eugene Robinson: Now that you're doing that without the chemical advantage, are you augmented since midnight?

15:51:52 Eugene Robinson: ...got a public forum. You don't have to admit anything. Okay. Eugene Robinson: Now that you're doing that without the chemical advantage, are you augmented since midnight?

15:51:52 Eugene Robinson: ...got a public forum. You don't have to admit anything. Okay.

15:51:53 Amy Bugbee: Just coffee... Eugene Robinson: ...got a public forum. You don't have to admit anything. Okay.

15:51:54 Eugene Robinson: ...got a public forum. You don't have to admit anything. Okay.

15:51:55 Shane Bugbee: Some of the good stuff. That good shit. Eugene Robinson: ...got a public forum. You don't have to admit anything. Okay.

15:52:01 Eugene Robinson: ...got a public forum. You don't have to admit anything. Okay.

15:52:04 Amy Bugbee: So before we called you, we played the track have Lydia lunch from your birth of tragedy record? Yeah. And I was explaining a little bit how I came across your album and stuff. And I was hoping you would kind of tell us how you wound up doing such a such an unusual endeavor?

15:52:25 Eugene Robinson: Well, you're talking about the records specifically, are you talking beyond about the magazine actually?

15:52:31 Amy Bugbee: I think both, well I guess what came first?

15:52:35 Eugene Robinson: The magazine came first the magazine predated the release. And I just live in New York City and had a horrible job in which I had access to two things and access to a Xerox machine and typewriter. This being 1979 or 80 or something. And I was heavily influenced by this magazine called the Vallium Addict. Which it turns out, I discovered later was a magazine that was put out by Richard Kearns and he used to do he used to do the vallium addict, the heroin addict, you know, the speed addict. He had a whole issue for each kind of drug. And I said, I you know, at some point, after I moved to California, I'd started all this stuff in New York, I want to start a magazine. And I named it after the book by Nietzsche , the book of tragedy. And started in the first issue was Xerox, and then after that, I discovered that I want to have themed issues, you know, an issue for fear, issue for power, issue for God, issue for love and and so on. And everybody was exceedingly cool. And in a, you know, as this burst of Think Tank type thinking I decided, you know, it would be cooler to have the people who, who were on the record, to be, you know, where I get a magazine to do something on the record, you know, take traditionalist and do them in a non-traditional way, you know, take ginsburg sing a song because he's not a singer voice you know, at this time before spoken word is really big. If somebody like Rawlins and have him tell a story, you know, Lydia at that time was known mostly for music ever do you know do something else? So that was the general idea. And you know, recording extremely cheaply, just send me a tape I went to, you know, I don't want to be any difficulty to entry, you know? I didn't want there to be any difficulty to entry at all. So I figured I could fix it in the studio. And, and that was a compilation which the amusing part is taking it to, to a distributor at a time and a guy ordered, I said, this is going to be kind of a cool release, he said, well give me 10 I'll take more than 10. And the guy goes now, okay, we'll take 15. And I took him 15. And he just sales people got on the phone. And by the time I gotten back home to live that live outside of San Francisco, about 15 minutes back home, he had already called up and asked for gimme 200. So he was probably the best selling release, I've had anything to do with just because of his weird mix of characters and characterizations and the stuff that's on there, you know?

15:55:13 Shane Bugbee: Now, which one was this?

15:55:16 Amy Bugbee: The record, right?

15:55:18 Eugene Robinson: It's a record and a tape. And we just signed a license with a German label called skin and speech to do a CD. But that's, that's, that's moving very slowly.

15:55:31 Amy Bugbee: So, you're going to put this out on CD, eventually?

15:55:34 Eugene Robinson: It makes sense. It makes sense. Do it on CD. I mean, you know, in the earlier days, we had grandiose plans of doing it, you know, of doing a visual component to you know, recording people and, and so forth. But, you know, finances dictate everything. So that never ended up panning out the way it should have. And, of course, a lot of those people are now dead, so it will never happen. Unless resurrection becomes part of our daily doings.

15:56:04 Doug Misicko: Did you ever organize any live shows?

15:56:07 Eugene Robinson: I'm sorry, did I what?

15:56:09 Doug Misicko: ...organize any live shows?

15:56:13 Eugene Robinson: You know, there was an idea. And I mean, you know, behind it all you have to have, you know, sort of impressive empresario. And the closest that that we came to I mean, the closest we came to something like that was something that we had nothing to do with at all. It was Rawllins at the time, you know, influenced by it decided to put together I think the tool was called our fathers who were not in heaven. And it was he went on tour with him and Lydia Lunch. And instead of Ginsburg, he got Hubert Selby. And then there was one other guy. And that was the closest thing to a road show. But yeah, I mean, you know, us doing a live version of it would have been impossible. Anyway, Manson's in prison, you know, and it just, you got to think it until you, you know, when that thing came out, I think it was 1988 89 something like that. I mean, it wasn't all that popular back then, you know, when the record was selling well, but, you know, people hadn't really gotten their heads around the idea that, you know, 400 people would pay to see a guy speak, you know, I mean, Rawlins hadn't started really doing spoken word then. So.

15:57:29 Amy Bugbee: Right, you were really ahead of your time.

15:57:31 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, well, that doesn't that doesn't mean the property, you know. It doesn't it doesn't a weird way. You know, like Adam porphyry, who runs feral press, who was made, you know, made his bones large. I mean, he's done the Lords of Chaos, you know, the book about the church burnings. And I mean, he's put out lots of great books since then, but he kind of got his leg up by doing the LaVey books, you know, kind of subbing out all the churches, Satan's stuff. So he did that directly, kind of as a result of the incident acknowledged by him in print at this point several times, as a result of my indirect agency, you know, which is kind of cool. You know, and the last time I talked, talked to him, which is about two months ago, he was talking about doing some kind of a book with, you know, a non... He wants me to do to write a nonfiction book where I can talk about a lot of stuff I'm talking to you about, because he thinks it would make a compelling document of some sort. I think he's insane. But no one wants to put out a book, I'm not going to stop them. So

15:58:42 Amy Bugbee: I think what you did is just fascinating, especially at the time that you sought out Anton LaVey and interviewed him. He was kind of a recluse, and he really wasn't doing stuff in the public and he wasn't in the public.

15:58:56 Eugene Robinson: Your recallection is pretty good. I mean, he had he had purposefully. Our interview was the first interview that he had done. And like since I think he declared a moratorium on interviews in 1973. You know, he got tired of being part of the dog and pony show, the October 31, where there's a... Let's go talk to that wacky guy for Halloween. He said inevitably, he was misquoted and it was horrible. And I think he originally was spot is because we, you know, our base of operations is is. We're in Stanford, California connecting back. I mean, maybe the perception was a side of it that we're connected to the university. So he figured at least maybe it would be something serious and somewhat academic initially, and when we showed up was a very funny, untold story. When we showed up, of course, he was at his house kind of overlooking this big hill, and he was a very bashful guy, he got...dug the theater of it. And it was a hot night and the dogs were barking and you know, he had socks on. He came padding up behind me, was up... his ability to follow goes, he was great. He was really wonderful. And I sit down and I play the taper... He was able to body guard and Blanche Barton. And he said, "Ah no no. We don't use tape recorders." And I said "what?!" They end up being used against you, you just take notes. So I asked the first question, he starts launching into, you know, his appreciation for the 1940s as a decade, and I'm scribbling, you know, as fast as I can, and I had to say, "Okay, hold on, when you said that part about the 1940s as a decade, repeat what you said after that." And I didn't do it to be a wise guy, you know, but he looked at my scribbles and saw that it was pretty much going to be a hopeless operation. And, you know, in that moment, made a command decision said, "You know what? Look, why don't you just turn a tape recorder on?" And that's pretty much what made that such a good interview, because there's no way even if I had known some kind of stenographers shorthand that I could have, you know, that I could have done that as fast as I needed to do it. So it helped quite a bit. You know, and, I mean, there's a certain amount of editing that goes on that he had not been afforded before. I mean, he said that they always consistently tried to make him out to be this, you know, umtry character, and, you know, they put in ums and uhs and, you know, and stuff like that. It just, and we took ourselves seriously as a journalist. And, you know, you wouldn't done that the Henry Kissinger and I didn't, I didn't think that you need to do that for Anton Levey. You know, how you edit it the way you know it the way it should be edited? And consequently, he was really happy with it. I mean, it still exist online on the Church of Satan site. Is it... is it not?

Hour 17

16:01:47 Amy Bugbee: That's how I actually found you because I knew that the interview was on Church of Satan.com. And I looked it up because I don't have your magazines anymore. They were burned in a fire.

16:01:59 Eugene Robinson: Oh! Fire that was sent intentionally or an accidental one?

16:02:03 Amy Bugbee: Lost everything pretty much.

16:02:05 Eugene Robinson: Right, right. Right. Okay.

16:02:07 Amy Bugbee: So, I did a search and I came up with a lot of stuff on the football player, Eugene Robinson.

16:02:14 Eugene Robinson: The whoremonger. I'd like that guy. One of you born again Christian whoremonger. Perfect. Yeah, there's several Eugene Robinson's out there, I kind of enjoy anonymity of the name, you know. And, you know, it was an association that that lasted, lasted a while. And yeah, he was more than helpful for with subsequent stuff. We were going to rerelease some of his records and record some of his new records. And then Hartley stepped in, and he got him into the publishing thing, you know. And I think that ultimately, that's a much better place for him at the time. He was thinking about doing a book, a research book as well. He wasn't thinking about it, he'd already done, like 40 hours, 60 hours of interviews with Vale Research. And, and then Vale got wind of the fact that he was going to do something out of Vale and said, "No, we only do exclusives" and LaVey... That's insane. And so there is also out there somewhere an unpublished LaVey book that the guy that research have their hands on, which I think will probably remain, you know, unpublished, which is too bad.

16:03:19 Doug Misicko: Yeah, that's what I heard I heard they're sitting on tapes, hours and hours of tapes.

16:03:23 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, yeah, they are. Which, I mean, you know...

16:03:29 Doug Misicko: Now there's an asshole, for ya.

16:03:30 Eugene Robinson: I like I like Vale. But the whole thing has been, Vale, you know, a friend of mine, and you know, I love their books. But, you know, I'm going to take a moment of self stroking pride here. I took the brunt of drudgery interview was still one of the... you know,

16:03:50 Doug Misicko: This is a friend of yours. Have a talk with them.

16:03:53 Eugene Robinson: Is what?

16:03:53 Doug Misicko: Some people want to see that material real bad. You should have a talk with your friend there.

16:03:57 Eugene Robinson: Right... Yeah, that's Yeah, you know, I mean, he's gonna have a certain way of doing things and he didn't he didn't want to be part of you know, the CoS publicity machine. So Vale, they had a very specific way to like to work but you know, it doesn't it doesn't really serve the artists well. I mean, you got to get out there and do your thing.

16:04:21 Eugene Robinson: So yeah, I won't... I've often been curious about it, you know, just just to hear what was said what they talked about. But, you know. Eugene Robinson: Right... Yeah, that's Yeah, you know, I mean, he's gonna have a certain way of doing things and he didn't he didn't want to be part of you know, the CoS publicity machine. So Vale, they had a very specific way to like to work but you know, it doesn't it doesn't really serve the artists well. I mean, you got to get out there and do your thing.

16:04:21 Eugene Robinson: So yeah, I won't... I've often been curious about it, you know, just just to hear what was said what they talked about. But, you know.

16:04:32 Shane Bugbee: It's funny. LaVey told us the same story, me and Amy had been fortunate enough to do an interview with LeVey. And we did the last interview with him.

16:04:41 Eugene Robinson: Yeah. Yeah.

16:04:42 Shane Bugbee: And he told us the same story you're telling us about the Vale tapes? And then we went to a book convention, San Francisco, and we sat next to Vale.

16:04:51 Eugene Robinson: Oh, you talk to him about it?

16:04:52 Shane Bugbee: Well, no, I didn't talk to him. When he turned his back. I took all of his books and dumped them in a dumpster and he came back said, "Where's my books?" I said, "I don't know." I think he's gonna be such a dick... I mean, you know? Fuck him.

16:05:07 He said, W"here's my books? "And I said, "Where's LaVey's tapes?" Ran ran out of there.

16:05:13 Did he accuse you of throwing his book away?

16:05:15 Well, I didn't... he wasn't gonna accuse me, he ran away, just walked away. I would have just, you know...

16:05:22 Eugene Robinson: I think that would have been a perfect story. If what he said, "You see my bag?" You say, "yeah, I throw it away." Your... Vale is not much of a fighter. You could have easily told him what you did with it, but it would have ended there. Well, maybe maybe you would have gotten a cop, I don't know. But you know, I mean, that's, that's neither here nor there. I mean, like I said, as far as I'm concerned, the Book of Tragedy is probably all the interview with LaVey you need, to know. I mean, it's, again I'm stroking myself, I mean, had a good time, we caught him at a good time. And it just, it still makes me really happy to read, you know, to the review.

16:06:02 Shane Bugbee: you know, when he told us to handwrite the notes. I said, there's no way we're going to be able to do that. We're never going to be able to do that. So we've answered the questions through a fax. You know, a fax?

16:06:12 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, that's, you know, I mean, these guys like to like to control control the deal. But you know, it's... I mean, you're in the wrong business. You know, nobody's interviewing gas station attendants, you know. You, I mean, as a journalist, if you want to, you know, you gotta, you gotta go for the real deal. And these guys don't want to give you a real deal that they need to go into a different business. So...

16:06:42 Amy Bugbee: I have to agree that your interview was one of the quintessential LaVey interviews, because he was so out of the spotlight at that point. Probably inspired him to republish The Satanic Witch.

16:06:56 Eugene Robinson: Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, I mean, he originally approached us about doing all the stuff that Parfrey Adam Parfrey is doing, like subbing his stuff, you know, stuff that they had already released the stuff that they, you know, that he wanted to release. And, and, unfortunately, at the time, you know, we were and still are, I mean, it's just me and one other guy, very small operation, you know, so we were not in a position to really give him what, what Parfrey could give him and, and also, we, we got much more obsessed with, at that point, you know, then the whole religious, we started working on an evil version of the tragedy that has to do with race war. Which starting to take up a lot of our time, which ultimately didn't end up did not end up happening just because, you know...

16:07:56 Shane Bugbee: I know, I'm still waiting for the race war.

16:07:58 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, well, you know, I just expected the guy. I mean, I think it's a bullshit boondoggle myself, but I just found the personality is kind of interesting, but in actual fact, that ends up being not very interesting at all, you know.

16:08:11 Doug Misicko: Your black, right?

16:08:14 Eugene Robinson: It shouldn't have been a surprise to me, but...

16:08:18 Doug Misicko: You're, you're black, right?

16:08:21 Eugene Robinson: Last time I checked, that's correct. Yes.

16:08:23 Amy Bugbee: You know, when I looked you up, and I saw the football player, and I clicked on the splatter punk...er I can't remember... Eugene Robinson: Last time I checked, that's correct. Yes.

16:08:23 Amy Bugbee: You know, when I looked you up, and I saw the football player, and I clicked on the splatter punk...er I can't remember...

16:08:33 Eugene Robinson: Splater Promotions.

16:08:33 Amy Bugbee: Splater Promotions website and your picture popped up. I said, this can't be the guy. That guy isn't into LaVey...

16:08:44 Eugene Robinson: I get that a lot. You know, I used to deal with the Manson people quite a bit. Because, because Manson was on the tape and, you know, you know, you just, you know, the family, the family and it still exists. Once we were living out in Big Bear, you know, the, you know, you get involved with Manson you get involved with the rest of the Black Forest, the rest of the family and it was just always, always amusing, you know, for me, again, the days before email, so I was talking to people on the phone, and you know, faxes may be letters, but it was amusing that you know, the name had been heard, you know, the birth of tragedy Eugene Robinson, but then nobody had any idea of who it was that I was. And then as usual, with these, some of these dealings, we had gone to come to loggerheads, you know, the family was pissed off about something, you know, they were, you know, I had them on a 90 day pay plan they wanted in advance the 30 days, I said, I'll give you like we agreed to in 90 days, they accused me of being a thief. And they started making idle threats. And that's when I started laughing. I said, I don't know what you're thinking of dealing with. You might think you're dealing with some guy who works in a bookstore, who's got glasses, who digs your shit, you know, but I will kill all of you. And, you know, I had to back them up.

16:10:11 Shane Bugbee: Guys at the bookstores...

16:10:13 Eugene Robinson: I was like, you know, using steroids. And I was not in the mindframe to be fucked with by some dirty hippies. So, it's always amusing that the you know, what people expect. And what they find, when they find me, are very frequently at opposite ends of the spectrum.

16:10:36 Amy Bugbee: I have to admit, I was shocked. All the years that I had read the birth of tragedy magazine and listen to your record, it never even occurred to me that you might be black. And it just is an oddity, I suppose in the subject matter that you're delving into. I mean, it's not something that... it's very atypical.

16:10:56 Eugene Robinson: It might be Yeah, it might be, but I mean, and, you know, and that was, which, I mean, you know, we've gone in and out of varying degrees of, you know, career awareness. And, you know, we've hired PR companies at some points to sell our self. And at some point that always comes up. And I've always rejected that as a sales topic, you know, you know, I don't give, I don't care that America is obsessed with it, you know, I'm not obsessed with it. It's immaterial, you know, I mean, it's material to me, only, it makes people uncomfortable. You know, and I tend to be a student of uncomfortability, you know, but they always want that they always want to work that angle, you know, because because for them, it's unusual. You know, for me, it's not unusual, it's dull, it's, you know, prosaic I'm not interested in it very far at all, you know, and at some point, I was working on a project with Boyde Rice. And somebody out there trying to get money for this project, that remix project, I wanted him to remix Oxbow, and he was into Oxbow. And he told me the same thing Parfrey said, which was your Anton LaVey interview changed my life, you know, and, and it sort of did. I mean, you know, he explained to me, he'd been that happy go lucky, you know, fool on the hill from the Richard Price book to the Boyde Rice that we know of today. And, you know, he, I mean, the first night that he met, lovey, we all met Joe Sarno, this Swedish filmmaker had a showing in San Francisco and LaVey and I and his daughter had gone. And we met, that was the first night boy that I really wanted me to show up, dressed like Tom Wolfe. It was great, you know, white pants, a hat and cain and stuff. And you know, he... you guys stil there?

16:12:47 Amy Bugbee: Yeah.

16:12:47 Shane Bugbee: Sorry, man. It's a great story.

16:12:50 Eugene Robinson: You know, he was very genuine gentleman lady. And you know, and I had no, I had no idea that was his road to Damascus moment. It was gonna change his life, but I'm glad and aftermath. I haven't been there. But yeah, the whole the whole race thing doesn't people say, Are you working with Boyde Rice? He was horrible, horrible racist. And my attitude has been "so what?" You know, I mean, you know, it's all armchair politics, as far as I'm concerned, you know, unless you're, you know, unless you're finding yourself in an alleyway, you know, with a guy with a baseball bat, or, you know, a two ball in the sock. It's all academic at that point, you know, I mean, you know, these these weird nestalgia cults, you know, pseudo homosexual Nazi worship. I mean, this is this is immaterial, and insofar as it might amuse me, it does. So, as long as it doesn't keep me from making quick time cross town. In fact, you know, that's my campaign slogan, "quick time cross town", you know, believe any weird fucking thing you want. Just don't keep me from making quick time cross town, you know, I don't get nearly as exercised about, you know, about this kind of stuff as somebody might expect. And therefore, you know, you have explained its absence in any of the work that I've done, you know, man, I find it much less interesting than then the work I've done. You know?

16:14:18 Amy Bugbee: It's just unusual. I mean, you know, let's say a Henry Rollins concert or something. Black Flag, I could probably... in the city of Chicago, there might be one black person at the show. So, so where did your interest in these things come from in LaVey and in, you know, the individuals Manson and stuff like that?

16:14:41 Shane Bugbee: Quest for knowledge, right?

16:14:43 Eugene Robinson: No, I mean, I've been on a pretty, I mean, it's been a pretty steady, you know, investigation of the nature of evil, you know, which I've maintained for a long time, which I think was probably born out of, you know, the 60s when I came of age and, you know, in overruning awareness of, you know, the fact that we live in a dissonant universe, you know, I mean, you know, the 60s were very much the Age of Aquarius, but you know, on TV is a 6 or 7 year old, you know, that's, that's not what was happening. And, and moreover, this was one thing that we got to an interview, you know, the, the interview with LaVey was an extended kind of meditation on on the nature of evil. I mean, after we covered, you know, his background stuff, and where he is now and what he likes. I mean, that's what that's what we're discussing, and, and my real question, fundamentally, you know, you can want to know, all the questions down that I had an entire interview with my question for him was, "have you felt this thing move inside of you?" You know, I mean, as as a fighter, I mean, it's only in the last, you know, 10 years that I've been a trained fighter, but I mean, I enjoyed fighting and, you know, and at one point, you know, fighting as an intellectual exercise. I mean, your body is doing something, I started to have these like, weird out of body experiences in the midst of a fight where I feel these, you know, this hysterical, you know, this, ...hysteria, patheos, this rising or, you know, bloodlust, you know, happening in the midst of a fight. And I said, Ah, you know, I haven't, I've now been able to give evil a face, you know, it's got to face it's got dimension and measure. And I can't be the only one out there who feels party to this, you know. And so the, the, the LaVey interview was, in essence, I mean, I kind of wanted to know, you know, I didn't want to know if he had talked to Satan. I mean, I, in fact, you know, I thought the interview had gotten really interesting when he admitted that he was an atheist and didn't believe any of this shit, you know, you know, but I wanted to, I wanted to find out, you know, whether he had felt this kind of rising inside that, you know, that I that he, you know, had identified at this, this early early fistfight, you know, and, and I was sad that we didn't have more time, because we were almost getting to it on the tape and didn't and didn't quite get through it. I mean, he started going down that road of, well, it's okay, I'll tell you what evil is, evil is what doesn't feel good. And, and I said, "Well, no, I'm talking about the light in cruelty. You know, I'm talking about the aspect of it that feels good." And then we kind of segwayed into, you know, how liberating is for some people to stand up and declare, I'm a Satanist. And you know, how is liberating and kind of sexually exciting, it might be for some of them. And then he started to get into the, what he called the occult mix. And then we kind of got sidetracked and at that point, I was a young enough journalist, so I didn't, you know, and I was enamored enough of what was happening in the moment of the interview that I didn't think of trying to get back around to that, which is a real fundamental important fucking question to have answered, you know, if you're talking to the guy from the churches say, and so that's the only thing when I read the interview, I cringed that I just didn't take that opportunity and grasp it and get back around to do you know, what I'm talking about? Have you felt this to you know, you know, I mean, there's certain guys out there who, you know, who's... their work speaks for itself, where, you know, they felt it as well. But, you know, feeling is one thing, being able to articulate what they think is happening is something else. And that's kind of what the whole birther tragedy thing was about for me, you know,

16:18:03 Amy Bugbee: So you were surprised that was a was an atheist?

16:18:08 Eugene Robinson: I wasn't surprised, but it took me enough out of my game, so that I didn't get to get back around to talking about what I want to talk about, which was evil. Ya, know. I mean, you know, I thought it was really, I mean, I thought it was I mean, I thought it was like, you know, if the pope stands up tomorrow, it says, you know, "C'mon... I don't really believe the shit!" Ya know. Oh, come on. It's a scam. I got your money, you know, come on. This is fantasy stuff. It was it was one of those moments where I was really delighted and amused and, and momentarily forgotten, you know, my for state admission, which is okay, you know, was it thing that Allen ginsburg used to say, Dharma gates are endless, you know, you know, I found meaning in a different place. But, you know, my initial reason for doing it, you know, was this investigation of evil and, you know, and that affected my reading as a child and my, you know, I mean, it's, it's driven my interest all the way through to the fact that oxbow's newest record is called An Evil Heat, you know, which is an extended meditation on, you know, the nature of the beast. No, that's that's what we're doing. Talking about. So...

16:19:26 Amy Bugbee: Yeah, now tell us, obviously, the birth of tragedy magazine is not in not being published anymore. What happened in I guess, where did you go from there? I know that you have a band Oxbow. So how did that come to be? And how did the birth of tragedy end up ending...

16:19:44 Eugene Robinson: Well, a birth of tragedy has not officially ended. You know, I've got the, the issue. The issue that we stopped on in the midst of was the madness issue. So we did the "love" was the last publish issue, and after that, it was "madness". But, you know, a lot of times the issues overtook us, you know, and they were all based on where we were at the time, you know, what we're living through. So fear, you know, I mean, it's these diary journal entries, you know, fear was the fear period, like Picasso's blue period, you know, power was a power period, God was a god period, ya know, love was a love...and madness, just kind of that was it put me out of the range of any kind of reasonable frame of mind able to publish a magazine. I mean, in other words, the publishing entity at that point exceeded itself and found a home in Oxbow, you know. I mean, in other words, I don't think there was any real way to say it in a magazine anymore at that point, I mean, it was sort of dawning on me that, that, you know, I was trying to, you know, I was trying to paint with a pencil, you know, I, I needed a wider palette, I needed to do something differently. And so, you know, the Oxbow had started out as audio kind of component to the birth of tragedy, you know, and the first Oxbow record was called pork fest. And it was intended as it was intended as a, you know, kind of an oral suicide note. And, you know, I didn't publicize this, like ggl. And, of course, because I didn't need the publicity. And it had nothing to do with selling records, but I had intended to, you know, put the record out off myself very simple, very simple operation. And, you know, as luck would have it, you know, what a difference a day would make, we put the record out, my, my worldview changed a bit, and the record was well received. But unfortunately, that didn't change my world as much as I thought it would. So you know, so subsequent records, subsequent releases, and, you know, all of a sudden, I found myself saying more of what I could say, with Oxbow, and it was less of a journalistic boy years before your wrist exam. But I mean, I've been a journalist, that's how I make my money. So I've, you know, gone on to interview, you know, anybody from, you know, Halle Berry to, you know, I mean, Bill Clinton ya know, which was unpublished there was an unpublished interview, because he got snagged by Esquire, and I got angry, I used to put a magazine out of Los Angeles called Code, C-O-D-E, which was like a GQ men's style fashion crap magazine. But yeah, at one point, I was standing on a golf course with Bill Clinton and Michael Brown Secretary of Commerce, his son, and Donna Shalala and Andrew Cuomo. And it was at a charity event, when the Democratic National Convention had come to Los Angeles always politicals were there and you know, they knew the magazine and, and I was there with these guys not having been searched by Secret Service or anything. And, you know, I had a suit on and, you know, my hand brushed my side, I, you know, I carry a knife, you know, and I was like, thinking, Oh, man, here I am with this knife, right next to the President.

16:23:25 Doug Misicko: You've got your chance!

16:23:26 Eugene Robinson: They didn't even search me, you know. So, you know, I had an idea that one of the more subversive things in my life certainly had happened and said, you know, pressing the flesh was you know, I mean, I really dropped out, like, out of all the places that broken into I thought this was a really major break through, that I was being taken seriously by mainstream forces, in a way that nobody ever could have expected, who know. Doug Misicko: You've got your chance!

16:23:26 Eugene Robinson: They didn't even search me, you know. So, you know, I had an idea that one of the more subversive things in my life certainly had happened and said, you know, pressing the flesh was you know, I mean, I really dropped out, like, out of all the places that broken into I thought this was a really major break through, that I was being taken seriously by mainstream forces, in a way that nobody ever could have expected, who know.

16:24:00 Doug Misicko: Some would say it's a golden opportunity, but we here do not advocate killing the president.

16:24:04 Eugene Robinson: Fuck, I love the guy. I mean, the guy the guy was a bit I can't I'm a big fan of Mussolini. But, you know, my politics tend to be all over the place, but you know, I think... I, I love him for reasons that are probably largely appropriate. And this is as a result of spending two days with him, you know, it's like he's smooth with the media. And that's where my appreciation comes from. I mean, he's... the guy is something else. I mean, I've interviewed a lot of porn stars as well. And you know, Clinton's got game. I mean, porn stars, the male porn stars that I've interviewed, are like professional athletes, as far as I'm concerned. I mean, their synapses fire a different rate, some different way that everybody else's, you know. You know, I go walking outside, and, you know, maybe I'm thinking different things. I'm thinking threat levels, because in my mind frame, I'm paranoid, I'm thinking threat level, you know, and I hung out with this guy, Mr. Marcus his closing thing was that he screwed 101 women in the, in the space of one video. And you guys still there? Doug Misicko: Some would say it's a golden opportunity, but we here do not advocate killing the president.

16:24:04 Eugene Robinson: Fuck, I love the guy. I mean, the guy the guy was a bit I can't I'm a big fan of Mussolini. But, you know, my politics tend to be all over the place, but you know, I think... I, I love him for reasons that are probably largely appropriate. And this is as a result of spending two days with him, you know, it's like he's smooth with the media. And that's where my appreciation comes from. I mean, he's... the guy is something else. I mean, I've interviewed a lot of porn stars as well. And you know, Clinton's got game. I mean, porn stars, the male porn stars that I've interviewed, are like professional athletes, as far as I'm concerned. I mean, their synapses fire a different rate, some different way that everybody else's, you know. You know, I go walking outside, and, you know, maybe I'm thinking different things. I'm thinking threat levels, because in my mind frame, I'm paranoid, I'm thinking threat level, you know, and I hung out with this guy, Mr. Marcus his closing thing was that he screwed 101 women in the, in the space of one video. And you guys still there?

16:25:23 Amy Bugbee: Oh, yeah, we're here.

16:25:25 Eugene Robinson: This visual thing where you're not talking. So he did this. I went out with him, I spent a couple of days with him, and he was noticing stuff that I wasn't even seeing, you know, I mean, his his, his sensitivity to, you know, his, his environment, you know, these are the, you know, sexual possibilities, was like, I've never been around anybody like that, before. He was seeing stuff that means, you know, see that woman. I mean, it was just different and Clintons cut from very much the same cloth. And, and these people aren't, you know, animals, you know, like, it's just great to see a natural in their environment, whether we're talking about, you know, whether we're talking about Clinton or whether we're talking about a porn star, or, you know, fighters, I spend a lot of time with fighters. And it's the same thing. It's great to see a natural, do what they do. You know.

16:26:12 Amy Bugbee: You're comparing Bill Clinton to male porn stars. Huh?

16:26:18 Eugene Robinson: You know, I'm comparing. I'm comparing Bill Clinton to somebody who makes their living appealing to people, you know, you know, whether he's a rock and roll singer, or, you know, an author on a book tour, or a movie star, or, you know, Bill Gates, you know, a business guy who crosses the divide becomes a media figure. You know, I guess we're talking about what leadership has become in the year 2003, you know, but actually, I didn't meet him in 2003. I think it was 2001 where I met him. Whenever the Democratic National Convention was, you say you fight professionally? I fight competitively. Nobody's paid me a dime yet for fighting. Yeah. So. But I'm totally obsessed with. I'm totally obsessed with fighting.

16:27:13 Doug Misicko: What kind? Is there a style just boxing? Or is it no holds barred.

16:27:17 Eugene Robinson: I took karate for you know, eight years. And I took muy Thai which is, you know, Thai boxing for a year. I used to box in the boys club back in Brooklyn, where I'm from, you know, and then in the last five years, I've been doing, you know, submission, fighting, grappling. And then last year, I've been doing Brazilian jujitsu. So and I'm editor at large for grappling magazine. So if there's a fight in Las Vegas, or Atlantic City, you're likely to find me ringside, you know, and we're doing this site now this skull game, you know, www.skullgame.com, but we're going to spin a site off of that, we have to go to skullgame to get to a book called "Skull Crusher", which is going to be like, an Amazon for fight related materials, you know, anything related to fight, you know, we'll have it you know, whether it's street fights, ring fights, women fighting, you know, whatever, whatever it is, we'll have it. Doug Misicko: What kind? Is there a style just boxing? Or is it no holds barred.

16:27:17 Eugene Robinson: I took karate for you know, eight years. And I took muy Thai which is, you know, Thai boxing for a year. I used to box in the boys club back in Brooklyn, where I'm from, you know, and then in the last five years, I've been doing, you know, submission, fighting, grappling. And then last year, I've been doing Brazilian jujitsu. So and I'm editor at large for grappling magazine. So if there's a fight in Las Vegas, or Atlantic City, you're likely to find me ringside, you know, and we're doing this site now this skull game, you know, www.skullgame.com, but we're going to spin a site off of that, we have to go to skullgame to get to a book called "Skull Crusher", which is going to be like, an Amazon for fight related materials, you know, anything related to fight, you know, we'll have it you know, whether it's street fights, ring fights, women fighting, you know, whatever, whatever it is, we'll have it.

16:27:26 Amy Bugbee: I'm gonna backtrack a little bit. I want to ask you a question via the Radio Free State and chat room. Okay. Someone's asking. Well, there's a couple questions actually, one person is asking how, if there's "birth of tragedy" back issues available? Are there? Eugene Robinson: I took karate for you know, eight years. And I took muy Thai which is, you know, Thai boxing for a year. I used to box in the boys club back in Brooklyn, where I'm from, you know, and then in the last five years, I've been doing, you know, submission, fighting, grappling. And then last year, I've been doing Brazilian jujitsu. So and I'm editor at large for grappling magazine. So if there's a fight in Las Vegas, or Atlantic City, you're likely to find me ringside, you know, and we're doing this site now this skull game, you know, www.skullgame.com, but we're going to spin a site off of that, we have to go to skullgame to get to a book called "Skull Crusher", which is going to be like, an Amazon for fight related materials, you know, anything related to fight, you know, we'll have it you know, whether it's street fights, ring fights, women fighting, you know, whatever, whatever it is, we'll have it.

16:28:24 Amy Bugbee: I'm gonna backtrack a little bit. I want to ask you a question via the Radio Free State and chat room. Okay. Someone's asking. Well, there's a couple questions actually, one person is asking how, if there's "birth of tragedy" back issues available? Are there?

16:28:46 Eugene Robinson: I'm standing in the office right now, and there are back issues but I you know, I can't I can't get them to. At this point. They're archived issues. I have been kind of wanting to do what the Church of Satan did, which is put them online and the issues as they exist, but you know, like I said, we're two people. You know, we don't have a lot of time. So that is a plan to actually get that stuff online. We do have we still sell the tapes and and the records. But those are again, we have very few of those. And, and I've been stingy with them until the CD comes out. But yeah, I mean, if somebody is interested in they should they need to go to they can actually there's a store on the Oxbow website where I think you can order right now. You know, theOxbow.com? Yeah. And you go to the store section of it, I think we're selling "Birth of Tradgety" through there. So that's the last public venue where you can probably buy that stuff until we put up the CD.

16:30:02 Shane Bugbee: When I go to O-X-B-O-W, I get a...

16:30:06 Eugene Robinson: T-H-E..

16:30:09 Amy Bugbee: theoxbow

16:30:09 Eugene Robinson: Some mining company got... Oh, i dont want to speak for them... So it's THEoxbow.com. So what was the other question from the chat room?

16:30:19 Amy Bugbee: The other question was, who else you look to interview to learn more about evil in your quest to learn about evil?

16:30:29 Eugene Robinson: Well, you know, I mean, we started out with the fear issue with you know, Manson, and, and Manson, you on a public face that okay, I'm much more interested in air trees and water, you know, that was, that was his acronym for it. That was, that was his public base privately, it seemed to me he was much more interested in money. But, you know, he will, it was a secondary consideration for him. I mean, I know he's felt it. But, you know, he was in a position where he's is concerned and controlled about his public image as, as, as anybody else's a public figure, you know. So it served his purposes less to talk about that, given where he is... prison; then to talk about air trees and water, which might actually help him with the parole board, you know. So, you know, I mean, I started out with him, and, you know, and the artists, you know, I mean, the artists that we've interviewed are edge artists, I mean, I never really expected them to, or, you know, the guys from survival research labs, and never really expected them to offer any, you know, tremendous insight to me, for me, they were doing interesting work that I was interested in. So that was interviewing them. But you know, you can you can track it clearly through the birth of tragedy, the people who, you know, who, who LARP were participating in the meditation on a one. So, we did a piece with Rene Girard, French philosopher at that time for the sake of violence in the sacred, in, in his take on it. Yeah, it was very academic is a great book, you know, many explain the kind of psychological underpinnings in academics. And the proprietor problem is the people who have really felt it, and using that people can articulate it. And the people who can articulate it are usually not the people who felt it, you know, so it's a it's a really weird, I mean, I've had that experience. And, you know, I, you know, I used to, I mean, I've had weird jobs in the past and, and I discovered that it was really hard to find a combination of, say, smart, and physically dangerous, you know, like, I used to, I used to be a bouncer and, and the guys who were balances were physically dangerous. I mean, they would, you know, borderline psychopath, some of these guys I used to work with and, and so they understood what it was that I was talking about, but no way could they articulate it. So it was really hard to find that kind of combination of, you know, smart. And, I guess, crazies when I'm saying I guess, you know, but, you know, crazy along the lines of the Salvador Dali, quote, you know, the only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad, you know. I'm in... My last night as a bouncer, I think, before I was forcibly removed from the profession, I was had some guys... you know the games, those kids have a paddle, ball, and the ball and elastic and hit it back and forth. And add some guy by the hair. And I was dragging his face at the edge of a marble bar. And it was extended how we got to that moment, you know, many guys deserved it. And you know, not like, causality to justify it. But even before I'd been struck in the face and asked the owner or the establishment that we get x-rays and to go get peace in the bar. that was the solution.

16:33:56 Amy Bugbee: Well, I can appreciate you playing ball with someone's head.

16:34:00 Eugene Robinson: Yeah. So next time, next night, I figured I had to police things for myself and gun wasn't really a solution to a bro game.

16:34:06 Doug Misicko: You don't need to justify that here. We understand.

16:34:09 Eugene Robinson: Exactly, what might is right. I thought I was heading into the edge of the marble bar, but it was you know, it was it was a it was a variety of religious experience, you know, because it was transcendent. You know, I mean, obviously I was moved... Not only did I feel this blood connection, but I had risen outside of my body and was watching this passionately, you know, the different changes that was coming over space, the swelling over the eye, the bleeding, you know, psychologically what was happening to him... I, the release, you know, the surrender and you stood up and walked away and...um...

16:34:50 Doug Misicko: I know what you're talking about I study combat too.

16:34:53 Eugene Robinson: What kind do you study?

16:34:56 Doug Misicko: I study Aikido jujitsu and Brazilian jujitsu. Sometimes some karate...

16:35:00 Eugene Robinson: Who you trainging with, man? You got the world, you're in the Midwest. Right? Doug Misicko: I study Aikido jujitsu and Brazilian jujitsu. Sometimes some karate...

16:35:00 Eugene Robinson: Who you trainging with, man? You got the world, you're in the Midwest. Right?

16:35:03 Doug Misicko: Yeah, I Well, I'm in Detroit.

16:35:06 Eugene Robinson: Okay.

16:35:06 Shane Bugbee: That's the Midwest.

16:35:07 Doug Misicko: Yeah. Well, I know...

16:35:11 Eugene Robinson: Whether we're dealing with Detroit to the Midwest, you know, we're going to be out there October 10th & 11th.

16:35:17 Amy Bugbee: Where at?

16:35:18 Eugene Robinson: I spoke in Chicago at the Bottom Lounge. And then we're playing in Ohio, the next night at this utility festival. I know Detroit's a bit away from Chicago...

16:35:29 Shane Bugbee: The Oxbow is his band.

16:35:31 Amy Bugbee: Now I want to ask you about the oxbow...

16:35:33 Shane Bugbee: what kind of music is the Oxbow?

16:35:37 Eugene Robinson: It's a simple answer that is rock and roll, bass, drums, guitar and vocals. But think about Oxbow in terms of musical sales category action. I mean, it's in terms of what we think about action. And I'm talking about action in the political sense. Like when they would talk about pogroms those kind of actions, the CFO spent, you might spend some time read reading through the tour diaries. There's a film that this maker made about Oxbow called music for adults. And it's not worth it just has a couple of the only documentary pieces I know of being in this kind of fugue state, you know, choke you guys out. Teach you that choke... I taught LaVey, you know, rear-naked choke. Because I never seen him...

16:36:48 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Eugenee, you're breaking up, man. Are you underwater? Help Eugene, help him. Help him.

16:36:56 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, right. How is that?

16:36:59 Shane Bugbee: Better.

16:37:00 Eugene Robinson: Okay. I got the guy with a mateo lao, you know, which is a rear naked choke. And the great part about the film is, of course, I never see that joke from the front, you know. So it was interesting to see one, me in the fugue state and two, what happened to the guy's face is being choked. It was it was kind of great. So. So yeah, if you want, if you're interested in seeing Oxbow play October 10, in Chicago, I think. I can't promise you any any strangulation action, but at least it'll be. You know, the best way to understand is in a musical equivalent rock musical equivalent of the birth of tragedy magazine. I mean, it's consistently kept, it's, you know, it's consistently managed to be what it set out to be so...

16:37:42 Shane Bugbee: So Eugene, are you on a tour?

16:37:45 Eugene Robinson: What's that?

16:37:45 Shane Bugbee: Is that a worldwide tour? United States tour, where are you touring? Where are you going to be?

16:37:50 Eugene Robinson: We just, we just finished. We got back. We were in Europe for about four weeks.

16:37:54 Shane Bugbee: So is Chicago a one-off show?

16:37:57 Eugene Robinson: Europe. This was in July, it was very cool. You know, we played a couple of big festivals and lots of people turned out and, and I got into two fights again, which just you know, I got to... You know, I'm a smart guy, but I, you know, I have to be honest with you, it just it thrills me to no end. I mean, there's certain pleasures that, you know, that. That eluded most people, but, you know, the pleasure of that kind of engagement, you know, the transformative powers of violence. I really enjoy. So. And, strangely enough, once again, in England, the only other country where, you know, we've had somebody who went to participate in our Oxbow show in that way. It was probably Japan. And we played in Japan in the south of Japan, you know, not a foreign country. There's some fun, and it was worthwhile.

16:38:55 Shane Bugbee: Eugene, is this a tour? Are you just playing Chicago, one show?

16:38:59 Eugene Robinson: in Chicago and Ohio, that's it. Shane Bugbee: Eugene, is this a tour? Are you just playing Chicago, one show?

16:38:59 Eugene Robinson: in Chicago and Ohio, that's it.

16:39:01 Shane Bugbee: Oh, cool. Why cool. Wow.

16:39:05 Eugene Robinson: You know, score game takes up a lot of time, you know, reviewing porn. Takes a lot of time.

16:39:15 Shane Bugbee: So what's your background? Eugene, what's your education?

16:39:19 Starting from when?

16:39:20 Well, what's your final educate... I mean, I guess. Did you graduate from college? Are you a legitimate journalist?

16:39:24 Eugene Robinson: Ya. Yeah, I think 1984. Well, what's your final educate... I mean, I guess. Did you graduate from college? Are you a legitimate journalist?

16:39:27 Eugene Robinson: Ya. Yeah, I think 1984.

16:39:29 Shane Bugbee: Oh, cool, man. Yeah. And how old are you? Eugene Robinson: Ya. Yeah, I think 1984.

16:39:29 Shane Bugbee: Oh, cool, man. Yeah. And how old are you?

16:39:32 Eugene Robinson: I just turned 41.

16:39:36 Shane Bugbee: Cool. Just curious...

16:39:39 Eugene Robinson: You know? You live long enough it happens. I used to be bothered by it. But you know, there's no choice. So.

16:39:50 Amy Bugbee: So now how did you wind up with a skullgame.com? How do you? How did all of this parlay into porn? Is that an extension of your quest for evil?

16:40:05 Eugene Robinson: No, no, no, no, no. No.

16:40:07 Shane Bugbee: It's the quest for good pussy, right?

16:40:13 Eugene Robinson: Yeah. I, like I said, I've interviewed like lots of people that man to quote when I was at code magazine. I mean, I interviewed Laurence Fishburne and Evander Holyfield got challenged to a fight and he ducked it. And the guy that I interviewed was Mr. Marcus, the guy who's with 100 other women in the video. And I guess it took him three days to do. And, and so I, you know, he invited me to a few parties, made a few friends and when I come back from tour. I come back from one tour, I've done a show, a solo show at this festival in Zurich called talk mos. And with this composer Michael Wertmüller. And the documentary film guy came along with us and filmed the entire tour, came back to LA to edit the movie. And he was, he's also a web designer, he was doing some a, he got hired as a director of web design for this company, so you should check it out. And he, you know, the name of the company was like, "game...something" it's not like a gaming site, I wasn't interested. And one day, I was bored and checked it out. It was all porn, man. You know, I'm not a big fan of porn. I mean, you know, I don't spend a lot of time watching it as a habit, you know, but, you know, I've always done in fact, the last unrestricted, last unrestricted publishing ventures in America, you know, where you can be frank, at least, about certain issues, you know. I laid out this uber-theory of publishing that I have, that I've made to the, you know, I've made it to everybody, I made it to Andy Grove at Intel, because I used to work at Intel, you know, I mean, I've made this pitch many a time and, and the guys had me and I made the pitch and the guy signed on to it, let's go ahead and do it, you know, call it whatever you want, do whatever you want, you know, in six months, if you sold enough, then we'll think about keeping it. You know, so he backed it, this shadowy, Israeli multimillionaire. With this kind of part Consumer Reports, you know, there's a review, review function.

16:42:32 Shane Bugbee: Let's face it, porn drives technology.

16:42:35 Eugene Robinson: Right. And that's why the company, they really have the technology thing down pat, which is addresses all your immediacy needs, you know, so, so far, it's it keeps me up late, you know, but, and I've actually managed to get a lot of people to do the reviewing. And so I don't have to watch all the porn, myself. But it's a fun site. And like I said, spin off the site, the skull, the skullcrusher. For the fight side. You know, at the very least it amuses me. But, you know, to to ask your question about is this part of the continuing tracking of evil. Now, that's occurred that's occurred through the Oxbow music, you know, and, with this record, An Evil Heat it kind of, sort of perfectly aligned to where, where, where they ended up in that interview where we kind of got this, you know, Tiffany with us, now, come on, man. I'm just looking around. I mean, this is not and I'm, I'm not at that point, I mean, I still have, you know, a measured set of beliefs and theories about you know, about non temporal reality, but you have sudden, I decided that what most people think is evil is I come to the conclusion, and this is only in the last few years. There is very little evil, in actual fact, you know, you know, despite all the chest beating today, about, you know, evil and buildings collapsing and, you know, that whole that all that, you know, I think that I'm safely said, I think Politics, you know, is very, you know, there's a lot of bad stuff, there's very little true evil, you know, so as a field of investigation, I kind of have stumbled into the realization that it's like, it's like, specializing in second century Greek pottery, you know, it's, you know, it's a very specific discipline. And, and, of course, I wasn't studying it for any other reason, except to gain insight into how it is that I function. But, you know, as a result of the evil heat era of Oxbow, and, you know, personal realities for me, kind of, you know, embraced it as, you know, as a, as useful attributes. You know, that's part of who it is that I am, but, you know, my, my investigation of it ended formally August 1 of this year, strangely enough, after reading Allen Bullock's new 1200 page book, "Hitler and Stalin". And, and, you know, I have now, like I said, come to the conclusion that it is something else. You know, call it a clarion cry for a certain type of freedom. But I've moved on.You know. I mean, there's a moment you know, I guess, everybody has a road to Damascus moment, you know, there's a moment where you just, you know, you it's a quiet embrace of self. And, and I've noticed it when this happened, historical figures that, while quite useful, and good for the individual is frequently very bad for society at large. And this is no different. I mean, I feel much more, you know, of a piece of a man now at this point in my life than I ever have, any other time of my life. But I am resultantly, I think, probably a lot more. And I don't want this word to be understood in a typical with a different connotations, but a lot more dangerous, and then say, I probably ever have been before, you know, and I mean, that from a not physical, you know, street fighting level I'm talking about philosophically, you know, and I feel I feel okay about that. I feel quite good about it, natural fact. But it just, I, and I'm doing I'm doing the right thing, you know, people who don't know me who come in contact with me, I'm trying to as clearly as possible, as closely as possible to find what it is that I mean, before these guys interact with me. And for example, a record label contacted me yesterday about putting out a new Oxbow record. And I kind of just I tried to potentially dissuade them. So you don't want to do that. All you guys are great, right? Yeah. Yeah, I know. But you don't want to do that, you know? Why subject yourself to the abuse? And this guy, you know, he's thinking I'm joking, and so odd, but, you know, would you give me the keys to your house? Okay, well, no, you probably wouldn't give me the keys to your house. You know, putting out an Oxbow record is very much akin to give me the keys to your house, you're granting me access. And, you know, we're demanding taskmasters. And, you know, in terms of, you know, society at large, you know, we definitely have an unsound program, you know, if there's something that you care about, or you know, that you love, or you value, you know, that you think is yours. You know, do not expose us to it. You know, if we can we will take it. No, and this is not, this is not this horrible nefarious thing. You know, I'm not I'm not talking about TVs. I'm not talking about personal appliances, you know. I'm just the, you know, I'm just talking about even though you might care about, you know,

16:48:27 Amy Bugbee: So now I hear that you have also written a book? Did I read that?

16:48:31 Eugene Robinson: A long slow screw? Yeah. It was my second one...

16:48:34 Shane Bugbee: Watch how you, talk to my wife. What was that? What I miss?

16:48:39 Eugene Robinson: Huh?!

16:48:39 Shane Bugbee: I'm just teasing Eugene, you said "a long slow screw", and I said, "Watch how you're talking to my wife."

16:48:46 Eugene Robinson: See you guys a marriage. Yeah, there you go. That's nice. Marriage is good.

16:48:52 Amy Bugbee: Are you being sarcastic?

16:48:54 Eugene Robinson: Not a lot, not not at all, you know, not at all. I mean, marriage is like a grocery store. You know, it's a thing. It's a thing that exists. It's useful for a great many people. You know.

16:49:05 Eugene Robinson: No, no, that's that's that's pretty cool. Eugene Robinson: Not a lot, not not at all, you know, not at all. I mean, marriage is like a grocery store. You know, it's a thing. It's a thing that exists. It's useful for a great many people. You know.

16:49:05 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Eugene. My wife goes by the handle Whore of Horror. So I have a fun, great marriage. I'm very happy, man. Eugene Robinson: No, no, that's that's that's pretty cool. Eugene Robinson: Not a lot, not not at all, you know, not at all. I mean, marriage is like a grocery store. You know, it's a thing. It's a thing that exists. It's useful for a great many people. You know.

16:49:05 Eugene Robinson: No, no, that's that's that's pretty cool. Shane Bugbee: Hey, Eugene. My wife goes by the handle Whore of Horror. So I have a fun, great marriage. I'm very happy, man.

16:49:12 Eugene Robinson: No, no, that's that's that's pretty cool.

16:49:16 Shane Bugbee: He's a porn aficionado. He knows what I'm talking about. I don't need to say anymore.

16:49:20 Eugene Robinson: No, no. I mean, you know? I've not I've not met either one of you guys in person, so so but I you know, love Love is a wonderful thing.

16:49:34 Shane Bugbee: A marriage is a love and hate thing, though...

16:49:36 Eugene Robinson: But at the same time, you know, don't leave us alone with your woman. But in regards to matters of sexual comportment, you can't stress this further, you can throw it. We will, we will fuck what you love. But that's the Oxbow way.

16:50:08 Amy Bugbee: You were describing your book?

16:50:11 Eugene Robinson: No, I was I was about to start hitting on you. In a roundabout way where I was going. A Long Slow Screw, I got reamed with a book deal and reamed in the way that large corporations can you can only begin reading you know, it started out at Random House. And the editor at Random House, got me an agent. And the agent was the hot guy on the block because he had signed he had he signed a book called The God is a Bullet by this guy, writer Boston Saran. Which she got half a million dollars for, So suddenly, I'm being rep'd by this guy, you know, I'm dealing with this woman at this big agency in LA, who's working on the film rights to trying to get Steven Soderbergh to direct it, to get George Clooney to star in it, you know, and this is before Soderbergh had done, you know, what was a movie that brought him back, though, a "Traffic". So it was before he had really done "Traffic". And, you know, I was, you know, Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, you know? So I'm dealing with these Hollywood times. And they're saying, "well, we kind of see George Clooney..." I was like, "What?!" I was shooting down their choices, and they wanted like, they wanted George Clooney. And for my female lead, I think there was talk about Julia Roberts in my book is like, you know, I used to be, you know, a professional. I used to be a collections guy. I've done that for a while to make money. And I'm not talking about the people who call you at dinnertime, I'm talking about the guys who show up at five in the morning at your house. And so I decided that I wanted to write these stories in a kind of a way that would not get me arrested, but that I thought the world should know. So essentially, I created a fictional framework to sit around them and, and wrote this book called "a long, slow screw", a title I stole from Michael Hira, from the swans. And that's called giving credit where credit is due. And so we've always stories into a book. And you know, they let these guys get at Random House, like I'm sitting sitting in meetings with these people you know about the book. And then the guy at Random House calls me and says, "I got some good news and some bad news." And I go whats the good news" He says, "I'm moving to Putnam". And I go, well, that sucks, you know, because, you know, the Hollywood the business, the way it works is if somebody leaves in the middle of your project, your fucked. Because the guys who are left won't want to work on your project. Because if it succeeds, they don't get the credit. If it fails, they get the blame. So you said you can stay here at Random House? Or you can come with me to Penguin, you know, so I go cool. I'll go with, use penguin. You know, because you're my guy, you know, and so I you know, I invalidate the contract and Random House. Screw it, I'm leaving. And I go with him to Penguin and I go, let's get the contract going. Two things happen simultaneously, he gets into a huge court actually ended up in a courtroom fight with with my agent. And and so now I have no agent, he refuses to work with my agent, he says "you got to get a new agent". So for all intents and purposes, of course, I haven't contracted with my agent, I have no agent. So I've written the book myself. And then I go to a meeting at the penguin and I meet with his boss. And the first words out of our mouth is...

16:53:37 Shane Bugbee: "I can't get a word in edgewise?"

16:53:39 Eugene Robinson: What's that?

16:53:40 Shane Bugbee: You said the first words out of her mouth, I said, and she said, "I can't get a word in edgewise."

16:53:45 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, exactly. She She said that, amongst other things, though. She said, she said that pop culture's so mean, these days. And you know, in a book where a guy gets a screwed and torn open with a pair of needlenose pliers. How the fuck, am I supposed to understand that? You know, I mean, the writing on the wall at that point was very clear to me. And so I, I remain, I remain unpublished. You know, Heartly approached me about doing this non-fiction book, which but we'll see what happens with that. You had a pause?

16:54:21 Shane Bugbee: Oh, no, I just said "you got to watch them Jews". Eugene, guess what?

16:54:29 Eugene Robinson: Yes.

16:54:30 Shane Bugbee: We gotta go.

16:54:32 Eugene Robinson: Okay. All right.

16:54:32 Shane Bugbee: Well, I don't mean to cut you off, but we have someone on the phone the other line. We're supposed to do an interview with.

16:54:39 Eugene Robinson: Who is it?

16:54:41 Shane Bugbee: Tom Metzger.

16:54:45 Eugene Robinson: Tell him I said, Hello.

16:54:46 Amy Bugbee: It's a nice combination, huh?

16:54:47 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

16:54:48 Eugene Robinson: I don't know. I've been I've been in touch with those guys a long time ago back when I was gonna do the race war issue. Of course, he had no idea at the time that I was black.

16:54:57 Shane Bugbee: He does, now.

16:54:58 Eugene Robinson: We were about to do an interview with him a long time ago. So. But anyway, all right.

16:55:03 Amy Bugbee: Well, it's been fascinating talking to you.

16:55:06 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Eugene. How do people get ahold of you ox? The Oxbow?

16:55:10 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, www.theOxbow,com. or www.skullgames.com. And I'm Vinny Vose. That's the name I wrightunder at score game. So you can send me an email through Vinnie Rose at scoregame.com as well. So...

16:55:29 Amy Bugbee: Oh, wow. His characterture didn't look a thing like you. Eugene Robinson: Yeah, www.theOxbow,com. or www.skullgames.com. And I'm Vinny Vose. That's the name I wrightunder at score game. So you can send me an email through Vinnie Rose at scoregame.com as well. So...

16:55:29 Amy Bugbee: Oh, wow. His characterture didn't look a thing like you.

16:55:34 Eugene Robinson: Yeah, well, what do you know? It's the progressive program of disinformation, you know, you guys got to send me a book... Read this or...

16:55:42 Shane Bugbee: We'll drop it off at your show when you come to Chicago.

16:55:45 Eugene Robinson: All right. Very cool, man. All right.

16:55:47 Amy Bugbee: We'll be excited to meet you then.

16:55:49 Eugene Robinson: That'd be cool. I'll put you guys on the list.

16:55:52 Amy Bugbee: Excellent. Well, thanks so much for talking with us.

16:55:55 Eugene Robinson: And let's stay in touch on email.

16:55:56 Amy Bugbee: All right, great.

16:55:57 Eugene Robinson: Okay. All right.

16:55:59 Shane Bugbee: Talk to you later brother.

16:56:00 Eugene Robinson: Bye, bye.

16:56:03 Shane Bugbee: Eugene if your listening, Brother. You know, my friend is calling in about an hour. We couldn't get a word in edgewise with you and I'm telling you I know you must be you must be on the crystal meth... you're doing something good and you should be here helping us out with that shit. You know, cuz you know we're tired man. Just give us some of the shit... man too many words in that guy's head. He wouldn't shut the fuck up.

16:56:29 Amy Bugbee: What's really funny is the thing on his website, the first thing it says is...

16:56:37 Shane Bugbee: First thing it says is what? Now you have nothing to say get Eugene back on. He'll tell you a fucking million things. What the fuck?

16:56:46 Amy Bugbee: It says on his website, the Oxbow. They do represent the sad ramblings of vainglorious men at war with conflicting urges and beliefs.

16:56:58 Shane Bugbee: That motherfucker...

16:57:00 Amy Bugbee: "Rambling" being the operative word.

16:57:02 Shane Bugbee: Eugene was a real interesting guy. That's real cool all the LaVey insight he had and stuff but man that guy was going on about meeting that a publisher agent. I say you got an agent. What the fuck are you doing calling here?

16:57:14 Doug Misicko: Fucking Random House and Penguin!

16:57:16 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Eugene. I'm bringing Tom Metzger to Chicago show. Okay, I'm bringing the boys. No, I'm joking.

16:57:22 Amy Bugbee: Well, he really did bring Anton Levey out of you know, nowhere. Yeah, he was. He was not doing anything. So we really have Eugene to thank for a lot.

16:57:34 Shane Bugbee: I hear there's some conversation going on personal Satan... letters to the devil. There. The Satanists are getting restless. They're offended by I think was your comment about ass raping a 13 year old girl, who's who said that?

16:57:49 Doug Misicko: It wasn't me.

16:57:51 Shane Bugbee: Was it you, Amy?

16:57:51 Doug Misicko: It was not me.

16:57:52 Amy Bugbee: You know, I love a 13 year old girl would read the email.

16:57:56 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well, I don't have it yet. But anyway, dark candles.com is a website my good buddy, Lee Stat does. Okay. It's darkcandles.com. And you should check that out. And I'd like to know if anyone has the balls to call up or email us direct. They should. If they have a problem with something we're saying. They should probably just deal direct with us.

16:58:23 Doug Misicko: No balls at all.

16:58:25 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, so we're gonna play something from Eugene's CD. One of these tracks. I think it's really good. Joan Biafra rant, enjoy and we'll be back.

16:58:43 Pre-record (masc): Stay in your home. Do not attempt to contact a loved one. insurance agent or attorney. Shut up. Do not attempt to think or depression may occur. Say in your home. curfew is at 7pm sharp door anyone outside of their subdivisions after curfew. Will the shop remain calm. Do not panic. Your neighborhood watch officer will be by tomorrow. Like urine samples in the morning. Anyone interfering with the collection of specimen files will be effective for anyone who fails to display the Melbourne Mexican painting of Alexander Haig on their living room wall will be shot. on all less than three lines. Anyone who fail to attend worship services on Sunday will be promptly arrested at the nearest reeducation resort. Remain call number one enemy of progress. Important that individual broadcast will proceed as you know more than two people may gather anywhere and what time without permission. Use only the drugs prescribed by your boss or supervisor. Be happy obey all orders without question. Now mandatory Relax, relax, be happy. Everything...

Hour 18

17:01:30 Canned Audio: Why I'm glad the space shuttle blew up. It wasn't the classroom full of school kids on TV. So our first reaction in my house was each of us sitting around staring each other to call up the San Francisco Examiner and say we were that legendary Libya to fly you heard so much about and we blew up the space shuttle. late that night we gave up the idea. The same old excuse. Why don't we get off? Sometimes though, it really does make them pick it out. But now I find out we were pretty damn lucky. If that shuttle had made it home things might now be a hell of a lot worse. Because that's I have this little plan for the following space shuttles I somehow forgot to tell us about. They had this plan to send the next shuttle into orbit carry 46 pounds of plutonium. If that one had flown up there see enough radiation scattered in our atmosphere to cause cancer but as many as 5 billion people reckless how reckless can you get away lunch Star Wars The easy way to fire it up into the graveyard at don't tell anybody about it? After all, when people don't know what hurts them they don't care. just blame the fallout cancer epidemic on Khadafi Think of all the money people we know with love with fake selling How would you cope with cancer tip BAM readers and yuppie that's why I'm glad that they shuttle blew up because the next one would have cooked all of us too.

17:03:55 1286 was a port song all over Europe. People are saying who knows. All over Europe, people. Ellen Ginsburg and Stephen... is your very love one another. It has been said is the supreme law tolerated so? upon what rational authority does the gospel of love rest? Why should I not hate my enemies and hunt them down like the most vicious of all beasts that they are? If I love them, does that not replace me with their mercy? Is it natural for enemies to do good unto each other? And what is it good? cameras on and the bloody victim love the blood splash jaws that ran him limb from limb. Are we not all predatory animals by instinct? If humans disease totally preying upon each other, could they continue to exist? If not lust and carnal desire a more truthful term to describe love when applied to the continuance of the race. is not the love of the Corning scriptures simply a euphemism for sexual activity? Or was the great teacher and emasculated milk software glorified Unix. Love your enemies and do good to them that hate you and despitefully use us in a cyclical philosophy of the sandal it rolls upon its back when kids hate your enemies with a whole heart. And if a man might do on one cheek, smash him on the other. smite him give me time for self preservation is the highest law. He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog gets a blow for blow scoring for scoring. Doom for doom. With compound interest liberally added on to eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Yay for phone 100 phones. Make yourself a terror to your adversary. And when he goes this way, he will pose so much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Bus showers you make yourself respected in all walks of life as your spirits your immortal spirit shall live not in an intangible paradise, but in the brains and sinners of those whose respect you have gained.

17:07:09 One train you want to break on? Pain taneous Lee Do not waste time blocking your waste time seeking a soundproof shelter. Try to get as far away from the product source as possible. There we go We'll lay our pa small baby may be placed inside the Special Olympics possible in children do not attempt to deal with if you know wealways are available, metal, not organic, to be employed whenever possible. Remember, you aren't making enough it is imperative to break all that down 17 years do not waste time blocking your ears. Do not waste time seeking a sound shelter. Try to get as far away from the sonic source as possible. It is one layout. Babies may be placed in Cyprus special adventure be left as possible in children do not attempt to use your wheels are available. Metal non organic should be employed whenever possible. Remember, Sonic attack for bifolding every man for himself. people survive and prevent over your loved ones you have only a few seconds to escape use those seconds to fail you will inevitably die Think of yourself of yourself these are the first signs of Sonic attract. You will notice small objects such as you will hear you will feel dizzy you will feel the need to vomit that will be bleeding from our offices. There will be an ache in the pelvic region. You may be subject to pick this up hysterical shouting laughter these are all signs of imminent destruction of flight if you are less than 10 years old remain in the shelter you can help no one else can help nodos puffy Shane saying your fucker Where are you calling you back about doing this radio thing you know you're called like bacon like Good morning Are you guys that woke me up and now we got this Hey, I've been listening since about three I bet that this is a live call in number I guess not. Anyways, your show kicks. Major acts I really enjoyed it so far. who's having an orgasm on the air that part was pretty great. Keep up the good work. So far, I think that this show kicks ass. I've been logged in since about three o'clock central time. You all are doing a wonderful job. One question though. Who is the chick having an orgasm? Son to kind of keep up the good work helping. Married is hard Fisher con Shane back about the radio show. Shane, give me a buzz. I am waiting your call bye. talking about revenue. But how far should we go? The limits the limits to the freedom to decide and assess Me Me, me, me, me. Me. mee. mee. mee. mee. mee. mee. mee,mee lunch, I had organized soup for dinner, but you'd never know because I stay hissing sweet when you not like most way, experience the difference for yourself. Most magazines leave you feeling uninspired, unimpressed and unloved? Why not like most of these interesting and stimulating articles motivates exciting leaser self respecting afresh then once you try not like news magazine today, visit http www dot purging talent.com slash NLM that's HTTP www.petland.com slash NLM. pick up a copy. Now like most like revocation of Satanism in action damn fine music for a lawyer. That would be me. My name is David Harrison. This is Professor sinister and right now I'm thinking about winners. You're listening to Radio Free save. Clearly someone of discerning tastes in a video could be doing something really freaky with oil and some kind of helmet. just wrong. Cut it out. Creepy. This is Professor sinister and you are listening to Radio Free Satan. And remember don't eat the yellow snow

17:22:56 or digital media is the most appealing it the food or the cream I think it's the Radio Free okay Radio Free Satan promo There we go. This is about as close to being spoon fed Satanism as you're gonna get a lot of listening to that funky funky sound. Radio Free seat, daddy. Oh. Hello, this is David Harris and you are listening to Radio Free safe, the uncomfortable. This is Reverend paradise from heavenly method memories straight from hell. If you play this message backwards, it sounds like you are listening to Radio Free safe. Honest.

17:24:02 Pre-record (fem): Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of radio for Satan or Mephisto media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know and some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear in this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot, and we refuse to be held responsible for your stupidity. In short, don't try this at home or at all.

17:24:43 Pre-record (masc): It's stupid people have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals, preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, or if females some sort of intrauterine device insists they wear it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are. The voters are professional athletes and are committed to quality and service. Back of the shop and listen to that day radio. Enjoy our favorite shows while you pay a radio station for your smartphone.

17:25:59 Shane Bugbee: Evil now calm your home for hate. Evil now calm your home for Satan. Evil now that we love to hate you.

17:26:22 Honey Hellfire: That's exactly what was up. I got my wine. And I'm ready to go. The Honey Hellfire show playing under the best danceable. thermistors technical and industrial music. Let's go have fun and dance with the devil. So I'm struggling with a smoke machine. The honey half hour show on radio present not the devil. That's kind of the point of being a Satanist. Right.

17:26:58 Canned Audio: I am calling just to say hi, whatever. I don't know. I've been listening to the show. I'm kind of tucked out right now. I'll go whatever is right. And you know my girlfriend has called her mom blah blah blah nanosensor doesn't call year after year every year but she still loves her boss. She wasn't sure third and stop pensioner and and my kids are doing great and when number one awards and retina tries to go up a hill or whatever. I don't know. Some kind of bike both you and I give a flying fuck about no vices are better or not are both the bottom line? I don't care though. Thank you Jean grew up to hate her knee. And every one of us. And I don't think anyone play it. Eric coming back. Whatever you want to do. Erica 415931835. Thanks. Honey Hellfire: That's exactly what was up. I got my wine. And I'm ready to go. The Honey Hellfire show playing under the best danceable. thermistors technical and industrial music. Let's go have fun and dance with the devil. So I'm struggling with a smoke machine. The honey half hour show on radio present not the devil. That's kind of the point of being a Satanist. Right.

17:26:58 Canned Audio: I am calling just to say hi, whatever. I don't know. I've been listening to the show. I'm kind of tucked out right now. I'll go whatever is right. And you know my girlfriend has called her mom blah blah blah nanosensor doesn't call year after year every year but she still loves her boss. She wasn't sure third and stop pensioner and and my kids are doing great and when number one awards and retina tries to go up a hill or whatever. I don't know. Some kind of bike both you and I give a flying fuck about no vices are better or not are both the bottom line? I don't care though. Thank you Jean grew up to hate her knee. And every one of us. And I don't think anyone play it. Eric coming back. Whatever you want to do. Erica 415931835. Thanks.

17:28:11 Shane Bugbee: Wow, that was crazy. We didn't mean to give out that guy's phone number. I just got that mp3 and that's someone who called and left us a message.

17:28:23 Amy Bugbee: That's so nice.

17:28:24 Shane Bugbee: He's so fucking drunk.

17:28:26 Wicked.

17:28:28 We don't like drunk people that aren't sharing the booze. Okay. And Doug is going to destroy the computer right now. You know what we're gonna do at 9:11 don't you?

17:28:38 Doug Misicko: No? I don't.

17:28:39 Canned Audio: You know, Doug, you've been talking about it all night.

17:28:41 Doug Misicko: I don't even know what Eugene was talking about. So...

17:28:44 Canned Audio: Who's Eugene? Eugene? Oh, that guy. I've been up so long now. It's almost 48 I don't know 64 hours I forget. This is the worst because we have the best interviews coming up.

17:28:55 Lance Bugbee: 64 hours 10 hours it's all the same.

17:28:57 Canned Audio: Oh, this is my brother Lance by the way.

17:28:59 Lance Bugbee: Hey.

17:29:00 Canned Audio: Lance fixes cars. And he's a mighty good mechanic so fits right in for mine is right

17:29:05 Amy Bugbee: well fast ones. And he does Lance radio.

17:29:08 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, he does the lance radio on 365 live 365 .com he's got about three hours going to be uploaded this weekend. Amy Bugbee: well fast ones. And he does Lance radio.

17:29:08 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, he does the lance radio on 365 live 365 .com he's got about three hours going to be uploaded this weekend.

17:29:16 Lance Bugbee: Come and check it out. Some obviously some amateur shit. I like it.

17:29:24 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well, you know We got some interesting guests coming up. My brother's not too interesting. No, I'm kidding. He's my brother. You know, I used to scrape the shit out of the crack of his ass when he was a young boy. Interesting. Yeah, I used to take tape. I used to change his diaper. And you know, when you do that, you just, you pull their legs up almost like, you know, a porn star position. And you just grab that diaper and you just scraped the shit out of the crack of their ass, you know, because you don't want to have to wipe it with a rag. You throw that diaper away. That's...

17:29:53 Lance Bugbee: ...and you still eat with your hands.

17:29:54 Shane Bugbee: Every time I look at you, I think of changing your diaper, even though you're bigger than me now. So, but we have Tom Metzger coming up. George Eric Hawthorne was his old name. His new name is George birdie. I think his real name is George Bertie used to go by Georgia Eric Hawthorne. He used to be in the band. RAHOWA stands for racial holy war. Now he's in a band called Novachasm. And he's no longer a white supremists. He's in a band with a black man and a Jewish person.

17:30:30 Amy Bugbee: And, and he's married to a Pakistani girl. Didn't he tell you that?

17:30:33 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, no, I didn't tell me that. I read it. We're going to talk to we're going to ask him that. I don't know what his deal is. But I think my personal theory is and the first thing I'm going to ask him is I think he's really still a Nazi. But he knows he the only way you win is from the inside. He's infiltrated. You know, he's infiltrated the troops.

17:30:52 Doug Misicko: Well, Tom Metzger is still a white supremacist.

17:30:55 Shane Bugbee: Well, we don't know have you asked him that? You know... Are you a white supremisist, doug?

17:31:00 Doug Misicko: There's a book out about Tom Metzger now called 100 Little Hitler's. We'll have to ask him about it.

17:31:06 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. Mr. Know-it-all bookstore guy. You know what you Jean said about bookstore motherfuckers and everyone has been ragging on bookstore motherfuckers. But let me tell you, Doug works in a bookstore. And everyone we've been interviewing goes yeah, you know, those fucking guys with the weird glasses working in bookstores? I don't know nothing. Doug works at a bookstore. The only thing that stopped him is he only has you know, no horn rimmed glasses or whatever.

17:31:29 Amy Bugbee: Just the one eye.

17:31:31 Doug Misicko: One eye, angry. Working in a bookstore isn't what it used to be.

17:31:36 Shane Bugbee: I wonder though, a skinny guy like yourself you've study all these martial arts... I wonder what you could do to me. I'm almost want to take you up on a challenge.

17:31:44 Doug Misicko: Put on your diaper and let's go.

17:31:46 Shane Bugbee: I'm telling you Sumo. Right I'm ready. I think I want to see because you know I'm telling you I would love to test the martial arts the skinny guy like yourself I don't think he could do any damage.

17:31:56 Doug Misicko: You want to see it but probably see it at the SexPo or at Nior Leather... Shane Bugbee: I'm telling you Sumo. Right I'm ready. I think I want to see because you know I'm telling you I would love to test the martial arts the skinny guy like yourself I don't think he could do any damage.

17:31:56 Doug Misicko: You want to see it but probably see it at the SexPo or at Nior Leather...

17:32:01 Shane Bugbee: All I'm saying is you can hit the face. You're missing an eye so it's no damage. I could damage your face but me. All I got is my face. This is it.

17:32:10 Amy Bugbee: That beautiful face.

17:32:11 Shane Bugbee: Yeah. Okay, so no hitting the face that beautiful face. What do you think? And we're going to hold a Might is Right sermon in Detroit this weekend. So we went all the racialist to show up. We want all the Satanists to show up. We want all the hookers and whores to show up. Yes, we want them all. And we're going to be at noir leather September 14. We're also going to be at the SexPo at the Ramada Inn on September 12. And 13th this is like a porno convention bondage. Bunch of star last dancers Yeah, burlesque dancers and they invited me up there. Only. My name is featured artist, Shane Bugbee and Amy's drinking beers. You hear that? She's been cracking the Schlitz all morning. That's nothing new thoughm Amy has a bottle of wine hidden in the water cooler of the toilet. Where the water is, always finding wine back there.

17:33:05 Lance Bugbee: Liquid nutrition...

17:33:06 Shane Bugbee: But go check out dirty detroit.com Radio Free satan.com of course a great wonderful people that let something cool like this go on. No bullshit, like you know they didn't give us any grief. Well you know they do but they make us not tell you that they don't you know they censor us half the show was cut out believe me? We've been on the air for over 24 hours rich keep censoring us.

17:33:30 Doug Misicko: The fact that we haven't heard from the feds yet, is testimony to that.

17:33:33 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Rich your sense. I don't even know if his name's Rich. I forget who was running the place but that's the deal. Dark candles .com Lee Stat runs that. My good buddy Lee down at the personal Satan .com. Church of Satan .com, of course you should go check that out. TV is God calm is Amy's website. This fuckhead.com is Doug's oh, no... dysgenics.com. I was trying to poke a stick and Doug's other eye.

17:34:06 Amy Bugbee: Doug and I both have the one page websites right now.

17:34:11 Doug Misicko: That's right.

17:34:12 Shane Bugbee: I'm trying to get Doug to say some facts.

17:34:13 Doug Misicko: It's a lot to look nice. A lot to digest.

17:34:16 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, so Doug has just... Okay, so dysgenics.com And I have evilnow.com, probably the best site you'll ever go to on the web.

17:34:30 Lance Bugbee: I have nothing.

17:34:31 Shane Bugbee: Yeah. And it only because it has a great story written about me from my wife. It's flattering. Of course my wife wrote it. But, you know, so you should go check these out. Anything else?

17:34:43 Amy Bugbee: You forgot the big biggest coup of the day that the Might is Right books were delivered and luckily released from customers this morning.

17:34:50 Shane Bugbee: You know what, we have Might is Right here and anyone who buys that book and the leather bound only. Okay, Doug, you don't know. Maybe you don't know, Doug is. He's not only the one eyed guy on the radio. He is the artist who drew the illustrations for the inside of Might is Right.

17:35:08 Amy Bugbee: There some at evilnow.com.

17:35:11 Shane Bugbee: That's right. Doug is the artist, a really good artists. It's a, it was a wonderful story, how we hooked up. And point being is we have leather bonds here, he's drawing really nice, one of the kinds of pictures inside them that probably be able to do 10 of them tonight, if you buy a leather bound, now they're 100 bucks, but they're worth it, we only printed 100 of them. And they're sold out, we only have 20. Here, Doug's gonna draw a picture and 10 of them, which makes it worth more than the normal edition. You buy them tonight, between now, five, and midnight, and you're gonna get this one which one that Doug drew a picture. And it's a real nice one of a kind piece of art drawn in the book, you're just not gonna be able to find this. I'm telling you, my people, we're here to sell books, books. And no shit, you buy Might is Right, you get one for free. And I don't do that as necessarily gimmick, I do it because I would like these to be handed out, give one to your friend. People need to read this book. It's a real important work. It should really be spread around, spread, like the legs of a whore. My wife also goes by the handle whore of horror. And that's a website she has. It'll be up by Halloween. And she writes. She writes spooky stories. I don't know how else to explain it. But she's really fucked up in the head. And I think she needs help. I'm glad she writes it down. Because I tell you the few stories I've gotten to read I'm afraid to sleep with their cisely on the couch for a week or two. After I read one of her stories, because she's really fucking mental. You know, in a good way. I mean, in a really spooky, horrible horror away. You know? That's it.

17:36:55 Doug Misicko: Well, you mentioned Burdi and Metzker. But you didn't mention Peter Gilmore and Blanche Burton.

17:36:59 Shane Bugbee: I was just going to you motherfucker. You're still looking at dog. He's trying to win points. Such an ass mooch, your face is brown. Okay, keep it moving. You know, of course we're gonna we're gonna mention the klan. Okay?

17:37:14 Doug Misicko: Keep talking, sweetheart.

17:37:15 Shane Bugbee: So the next person we're mentioning before, the big guest is we have in studio guests coming in. Gentlemen from the band Usurper. It's a black battle man. Tours worldwide really, really, really good, say tannic black metal from Chicago. They're really good guys. And they don't give a fuck they Polish sausages. They're fat. They're sort of fat. But they're, they were spikes in the leather and they're cool. Okay, it's cool. He's gonna be coming in, want to talk to Mark Arminsky. He's an artist out of Detroit that we're doing the SexPo with. And he's a cool guy. And I know Peter Gilmore will we will be talking to him at nine o'clock. And we might be talking to Peg and we might be talking to Blanche Parton. Those are mites. But if they know what's good for him, they're gonna call so I'm saying. Doug Misicko: Keep talking, sweetheart.

17:37:16 Shane Bugbee: So the next person we're mentioning before, the big guest is we have in studio guests coming in. Gentlemen from the band Usurper. It's a black battle man. Tours worldwide really, really, really good, say tannic black metal from Chicago. They're really good guys. And they don't give a fuck they Polish sausages. They're fat. They're sort of fat. But they're, they were spikes in the leather and they're cool. Okay, it's cool. He's gonna be coming in, want to talk to Mark Arminsky. He's an artist out of Detroit that we're doing the SexPo with. And he's a cool guy. And I know Peter Gilmore will we will be talking to him at nine o'clock. And we might be talking to Peg and we might be talking to Blanche Parton. Those are mites. But if they know what's good for him, they're gonna call so I'm saying.

17:38:13 Amy Bugbee: Today only, right? Until midnight, they can get the Might is Right with the illustration.

17:38:18 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's well that... Doug's only doing 10 of them. I'm just being cool to people that are listening. I'd rather keep them for myself and sell them on eBay in a couple years for 500 bucks apiece, because that's what I feel it'd be worth is, you know, you're just not gonna find this book. We didn't print a lot of them. They're sold out. I mean, the book The leather bound is really only for the we did that book. And I did it for the Church of Satan in the Imperium. So that books really only available through the Imperium. The books I have here are the 10 that we each got and the ones that Doug is drawing the picture for are for the people, special people. The Radio Free Satan folks this is a special deal for the folks at Radio Free Satan you know so people that are in, tuned in and know what's going on, knows what's happening. Knows what's happening, my nigga. They get the book. And and... Amy Bugbee: Today only, right? Until midnight, they can get the Might is Right with the illustration.

17:38:18 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's well that... Doug's only doing 10 of them. I'm just being cool to people that are listening. I'd rather keep them for myself and sell them on eBay in a couple years for 500 bucks apiece, because that's what I feel it'd be worth is, you know, you're just not gonna find this book. We didn't print a lot of them. They're sold out. I mean, the book The leather bound is really only for the we did that book. And I did it for the Church of Satan in the Imperium. So that books really only available through the Imperium. The books I have here are the 10 that we each got and the ones that Doug is drawing the picture for are for the people, special people. The Radio Free Satan folks this is a special deal for the folks at Radio Free Satan you know so people that are in, tuned in and know what's going on, knows what's happening. Knows what's happening, my nigga. They get the book. And and...

17:39:12 Amy Bugbee: Are you offering that ridiculous deal of buy one get one free?

17:39:16 Shane Bugbee: No, not on those leather bounds.

17:39:17 Amy Bugbee: Not no on the paperback?

17:39:19 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, buy one get one free. It's not a ridiculous deal. It's only for radio free site and people think it's a good deal. Also we have might is right t-shirts. It's the cover of the book. It's a skull says big mighty is right across the bottom. We sell it, I'm selling I'm giving them away in Detroit. So anyone who's in Detroit, show up at the noir leathers only and you get a free t shirt. But if you want to buy one from me at 6.66, and you just pay pal us and we'll send it to you or buy it from Radio Free Satan ritual or radio free satan, and I'll have them for sale so you can buy them through their account, donate some money to Radio Free Satan tonight, and I'll send you a shirt, throw throw Radio Free Satan a $5. Bill. And I'll send you a shirt for nothing. I mean, that's the deal. They're good people and, you know, you got it. You need money to do this stuff. This is like PBS right now. We're begging for bucks. Okay? No, I'm joking. I'm not begging. I give a fuck. If you buy any of it. I'm just trying to offer something special to the people. The people I would be communist if I could. But I can't. Hello? Hello. Hello. Hello. Is this plugged in? Well, I hope ... you know, no one's heard a thing I said. No, I'm joking. I heard.

17:40:44 Doug Misicko: No, the chat room says otherwise.

17:40:47 Shane Bugbee: The chat room says what?

17:40:48 Doug Misicko: They know what you've been saying.

17:40:51 Lance Bugbee: They're listening.

17:40:52 Shane Bugbee: So what does the chat room say to what?

17:40:55 Doug Misicko: They're saying, talking shit.

17:40:56 Amy Bugbee: Yeah. Because he says if he were being censored then...

17:41:02 Shane Bugbee: I am being censored. I'm sick of this shit Radio Free Satan is I know what they're doing...

17:41:07 Doug Misicko: Their of value for the FBI.

17:41:09 Shane Bugbee: We've been broadcasting for three fucking days. Okay, Rich's got us locked in a room and he's not letting us out until tonight at midnight. And I hear I get emails. They've only heard us since midnight tonight. We've been here since 9-9.

17:41:27 Amy Bugbee: One thing we haven't talked about is the history of Might is Right.

17:41:32 Amy Bugbee: ...Right.

17:41:32 Shane Bugbee: Well, we talked about that last night when we came on the air a little bit.

17:41:35 Amy Bugbee: Well, I mean, the history of the book itself if anyone cares? I mean, is that dull? Maybe that's to dull?

17:41:41 Shane Bugbee: No, it's not dull. I mean, we, it's, well, it's something that's what they should you know, they're buying the book to read Anton LaVey's introduction, which talks about a lot of his theories about the writings of Might is Right now it could be Jack London, Arthur Desmond. There's a lot of folks that believe they know who it is. I like to believe that it was probably three or four people that wrote the book, Katja Lane, the person who wrote the editor's note had said it might Jack, she believed that Jack London could have contributed to it. She also believes that it was three or four people. We we have the original manuscript we we researched for a couple years and found it before we published this book originally. And when you read the original manuscript, you can see that it's written. What is that, grammatically?

17:42:32 Amy Bugbee: Incorrect?

17:42:33 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, right. In certain spots It was written by it looks like a couple different people did, right? Might is right, like someone added on to the original rant, and then someone added on to that rant. That's what it looks like from, from certain educated folk.

17:42:48 Amy Bugbee: Parts of it are really coherent, and parts of it are really rambling and insane.

17:42:53 Shane Bugbee: Sort of like Doug.

17:42:55 Doug Misicko: Minus the really coherent parts.

17:43:04 Shane Bugbee: Everyone quiet.

17:43:06 Doug Misicko: All right. Give us the history.

17:43:08 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, teach. I'm here to learn school me.

17:43:11 Amy Bugbee: I was asking you, you're pretty much giving it to us.

17:43:14 I gave it.

17:43:15 Well, one interesting thing when we were researching might is right as we found an underground magazine, that was published in in around Chicago called the Lions Paw. And there was also the serpent and the eagle. And Ragnar Redbeard, was a contributor as well as a number of other people. And also another contributor to the book was Upton Sinclair, who was about 18 at the time.

17:43:41 Shane Bugbee: And he had what back and forth with jack London with the book Amy found really hard to find letters written from Upton Sinclair to Jack London, the best part of Might is Right to me the weirdest thing when we did the research was me and Amy, were out of Chicago. We found out mine is right was published out of Chicago at some point and Ragnar Redbeard had lived in Chicago lions paw, eagle and serpent were published out of Chicago. One of the editions of Might is Right, the older editions was published out of Chicago as well. So it's a cool tie in that lovey was born in Chicago. Redbeard lived in Chicago at one time. We live in Chicago, we published the book, and Doug's passing through Chicago. Weird. Now I don't know that's weird. And I know George Hawthorne at one time had driven through Chicago and gotten a hot dog. That's strange stuff. Chicago has a lot of tie-ins with his book.

17:44:37 Amy Bugbee: Exactly. And Upton Sinclair if he was one of the contributors to Might is Right, lived in Chicago too, and wrote that great book The Jungle that got us the FDA.

17:44:48 Shane Bugbee: You think Upton Sinclair was in the ass raping 13 year old girls?

17:44:53 Amy Bugbee: You know, I don't know and one of the letters from jack London to Upton Sinclair that I found he says to Upton that it It's not that I don't trust you because you don't drink it's I don't trust you because of your uptight sexual views. I don't know if he was really out there. Getting much of anything.

17:45:16 Doug Misicko: Like John Ashcroft.

17:45:18 Amy Bugbee: Exactly. What's Ashcroft's battle cry cover the nipples?

17:45:24 Doug Misicko: Yep. Cover the nipples. Shane's covering the nipples right now.

17:45:32 Amy Bugbee: He sure is.

17:45:33 Shane Bugbee: Oh fuck yeah.

17:45:36 Amy Bugbee: He's gonna get that orgasming girl back out of the basement soon.

17:45:41 Shane Bugbee: We'd have to get a shovel...

17:45:47 Doug Misicko: So who we have?

17:45:48 Amy Bugbee: So...

17:45:49 Lance Bugbee: Well, we have a couple people that don't know what to say.

17:45:55 Shane Bugbee: Doug is tired. It looks like.

17:45:56 Amy Bugbee: He's fading fast.

17:45:59 Shane Bugbee: What are you saying? Marco Minsky was a crybaby?

17:46:02 Doug Misicko: ...was killing me. Eugene killed me. He knocked me out.

17:46:04 Shane Bugbee: And Eugene, if you're listening Brother, you had one of the best interviews. And one of the worst. It was like it was amazing because the beginning it was amazing. All the stories you were telling were great. And then....something happened.

17:46:18 Doug Misicko: Be happy divided into 10 parts or something. Mother fuck. The guy had 20 stories for everything.

17:46:25 Shane Bugbee: Eugene, we need to have you on once a week. One hour. The Eugene Hour. The Oxbow hour.

17:46:32 Doug Misicko: All right, exactly.

17:46:36 Amy Bugbee: Well, it was quite an hour. I don't think any of us got much in.

17:46:40 Shane Bugbee: That guy's verbal rapist. I feel like a 13 year old girl with a bloody ass.

17:46:47 Doug Misicko: I lost what he was saying. I had to sit down.

17:46:52 Tom Metzger: Yes, he did. It started out good.

17:46:57 Doug Misicko: It probably even finished off good. It was just too long. I don't know. But by that point, it wasn't listening.

17:47:03 Tom Metzger: How long do we talk to your conspiracy guy?

17:47:07 Doug Misicko: I don't know. That was it. That was almost an hour or two. But he kept fresh. I thought maybe I'm wrong. I was just I was a little more fresh at the time.

17:47:24 Amy Bugbee: So what's up next, Shane?

17:47:25 Shane Bugbee: I'm reading something, I know you guys have something to talk about. Pretend you're sitting on the couch. You know talking you guys can do that when the mics are off. So come on. We can all play pretend. Yeah, go ahead. Talk. Real quick. Come on. Well, I'll just play music. Amy Bugbee: So what's up next, Shane?

17:47:25 Shane Bugbee: I'm reading something, I know you guys have something to talk about. Pretend you're sitting on the couch. You know talking you guys can do that when the mics are off. So come on. We can all play pretend. Yeah, go ahead. Talk. Real quick. Come on. Well, I'll just play music.

17:47:40 Amy Bugbee: I guess we should discuss the Old ah Date of infamy that we're broadcasting on. Perfect, you know, good old 911. And what is 911 mean to you? Doug?

17:47:58 Doug Misicko: Well, it means we're broadcasting Radio Free Satan. What's the mean to you Lance?

17:48:04 Lance Bugbee: Kind of reminds me of the Crusades.

17:48:07 Doug Misicko: Why is that Lance?

17:48:09 Lance Bugbee: I don't know.

17:48:10 Doug Misicko: Then what the fuck are you talking about?

17:48:11 Lance Bugbee: For killing all the Christians, now it's just more recent times.

17:48:20 Amy Bugbee: Exactly. And what about those darn Palestinians?

17:48:23 Doug Misicko: I got nothing to say about them. Nothing to say about the Middle East. Amy Bugbee: Exactly. And what about those darn Palestinians?

17:48:23 Doug Misicko: I got nothing to say about them. Nothing to say about the Middle East.

17:48:35 Shane Bugbee: Wow, we've got really weird letters. That's no surprise churches Satan folks. Shouldn't be the only one has to read em but...

17:48:45 Doug Misicko: Weird chatroom material?

17:48:47 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, they love us.

17:48:49 Doug Misicko: Yeah, go ahead. Read em.

17:48:51 Shane Bugbee: You fucking read him bitch. Don't tell me what to do. Motherfucker.

17:48:54 Doug Misicko: All right, go ahead read them. Read 'em, nipples.

17:48:59 Shane Bugbee: Your lucky, that's new drywall on that wall fucking toxic plastic. See, I'm getting old. I care about my drywall. That's an old man. Ya give a fuck. I turned into Radio Free Satan radio radio. I turned in a radio free saying today and heard a very loud mouth. A very loud mouth making of noxious references to fucking niggers. And also making numerous comments about ass raping someone's 13 year old daughter leaving her with a bloody anus. Sounds funny. I don't I don't know what anyone else's thoughts are on this but in my opinion is quite cheap, unintelligent, and, and some French word. Whatever.

17:49:41 Amy Bugbee: Thanks, Thomas Thorne.

17:49:42 Shane Bugbee: It is really quite unpalatable and completely unnecessary. I switched off; if I wanted to hear that kind of conversation. I would go well, I don't know where we're exactly. But somewhere very dumb people hanging around. I'm so dumb that you're listening. Like, I listen into this station quite often, but I'm glad I missed that broadcast. You're so stupid. You're glad you missed something? You didn't fucking hear you moron I'm glad you didn't listen. What kind of stupid comment is that? What kind of satanist is writing something like that? I can't believe it. I'm glad I missed that conversation. You don't even know what it is... in what context we were talking. That's ridiculous, man. Oh, that's horrible. That's disappointing with my poor internet connection. I can't get Radio Free Satan running properly. But I had been planning on tuning in once I got my cable modem up and running. This makes me think twice. My time is too precious to waste it on trash like that. Wow. Well, let's say you stick your fucking head in the oven. Waste the life. That's, What do you think of that Doug?

17:50:49 Doug Misicko: I'm with them. I agree entirely.

17:50:54 Amy Bugbee: Where's their sense of humor Jeez, is Anton LaVey the only satanist with a sense of humor?

17:50:58 Shane Bugbee: So far, only one person has heard it. And there's six people commenting on how shitty it is. They don't even know what the hell was being said or what you know. As a matter of fact, I don't even know what the hell was being said. And I was here to saying it.

17:51:12 Amy Bugbee: I don't even remember hearing that.

17:51:13 Shane Bugbee: I remembered, I think it was about cops' families and how cops i don't know i forget. I'd love to hear back but I'm sure I'm sure I meant well.

17:51:25 Amy Bugbee: I'm sure you did too.

17:51:26 Shane Bugbee: All right.

17:51:26 Doug Misicko: Best intentions with those 13 year olds.

17:51:29 Shane Bugbee: I sure I meant the exact opposite of well, but Whatever that is, I'm getting tired. So I'm gonna run my own disclaimer. I'm really tired. And I'm not going to be able to complete a good sentence in a couple of hours. 24 hour radio show was not the best idea Rich. I think the guy at Radio Free Satan came up with this idea. And it wasn't me. Doug Misicko: Best intentions with those 13 year olds.

17:51:29 Shane Bugbee: I sure I meant the exact opposite of well, but Whatever that is, I'm getting tired. So I'm gonna run my own disclaimer. I'm really tired. And I'm not going to be able to complete a good sentence in a couple of hours. 24 hour radio show was not the best idea Rich. I think the guy at Radio Free Satan came up with this idea. And it wasn't me.

17:51:50 Amy Bugbee: How dare he do this to us?

17:51:52 Shane Bugbee: Okay, well, I don't know who know who the guy was. I gave it quite a while in the hope he would shut up. He did not. If he is from the station then he should be kept off the air if he was a guest and he should have been told to shut up or otherwise removed. He was not even responding to any conversation simply shouting obscenities.

17:52:12 Doug Misicko: Who's doing that I for a while I thought he's talking about Eugene. But Eugene wasn't shouting obscenities.

17:52:17 Shane Bugbee: a lot of people put some hard work into Radio Free Satan and I do not wish to slur the whole thing because of this instance. But I hope I do hope they choose to portray themselves better in the future. I'm sure there's an explanation somewhere there ought to be at least it was quite appalling.

17:52:36 Doug Misicko: We're all taking the moral high ground here.

17:52:39 Shane Bugbee: Does this have anything to do with Might is Right day, that was planned for today on Radio Free Satan. Apparently they were meant to be various guests talking about the book. It was it was the Might is Right day. But this time there was no mention of it. Is there ever such an excuse to sout for spouting such drivel?

17:53:06 Tom Metzger: Well everyone in the chat room loves it and they said to tell you that indeed good time suck dick you pussies.

17:53:16 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, suck dick you pussies you nigger, cunt, jew pussies if I get a hold of your 13 year old daughters you know what's happening.

17:53:25 I can't even read this long god damn I would like to... Doug, can you come over and do something for your fucking dollar? Goddamn punk.

17:53:34 Amy Bugbee: What are we giving you a free book for?

17:53:35 Shane Bugbee: You motherfucker drew the pictures in the book you're lucky I get I'm not you're not even getting the free book now. I let the guy draw pictures for the book. He gives me 100 bucks I said I give you a free book. Now read that would you here's the...

17:53:46 Lance Bugbee: Talk into the mic, honey.

17:53:52 Doug Misicko: All right. I don't see who this is from. Oh it's from Bill M.

17:53:57 Shane Bugbee: That's not from Bill M. Bill M. is another guy, this is just a...

17:54:01 Doug Misicko: Alright, Bill and some other guy.

17:54:03 Shane Bugbee: Reading my inbox. Rich, Bill M., JB Huntley. Those are all people that have sent me mail.

17:54:09 Doug Misicko: All right.

17:54:09 Shane Bugbee: This mail I have open is from, doesn't say. Just here...

17:54:15 Doug Misicko: Okay. As with any public forum, there are always going to be those who just want to hear themselves, be it radio, message boards and in parentheses. I believe we have an extensive collection of recorded instances here in the basement, etc. There will always be infantile simpletons who enjoy hearing themselves say "poop" on the air.

17:54:35 Lance Bugbee: Alright, who said poop?

17:54:37 Shane Bugbee: Nipple.

17:54:38 Doug Misicko: Oh, that's right. Unfortunately, there will always be confusion between us as Satanists and Zion Satanists, who live their lives to be what Zionists deem evil. Therefore, on any open satanic forum, there're going to be those who want to impress us, the members of the Church of Satan, with how evil and blasphemous they can be without even knowing or regarding what our views and philosophies are. The point of this is not to defend these morons, believe me, I would love to see their faces turn purple as they choke on their immaturity. My point is that they're inevitable. We live in a society at least in America... I'm not too keen on things elsewhere, I'm not much of a traveler ...that rewards stupidity. They're everywhere. They're stupid use birth control. And they are too stupid to use birth control. Sorry. I personally just look at them for what they are, testaments of my superiority. I certainly feel that Satanists are far superior to the common idiot. I don't go around using that as a license for belligerents that would be irresponsible and counterproductive. Instead, I let their annoyances fuel my drive to succeed. I find it unfortunate that they are infiltrating our media. They have no place with us. They are the kids that feel that negative attention is better than none at all. Hopefully, that sort of annoyance will not run rampant. Well?

17:55:59 Shane Bugbee: I'll tell you what, you cocksucker. I've done more than you'll ever do. And I don't even know who you are. But I can guarantee I've done more than you'll ever do. As a matter of fact, I've done so much that I was invited by Dr. LaVey to go and sit in his house and hang out with them. He gave me the foreword to Might is Right so i would publish his foreword and publish his work. He didn't see me as that bad of a guy, you following cocksucker?

17:56:26 Doug Misicko: Well, what's this about infiltrating their media? This is their media.

17:56:29 Shane Bugbee: He must be a Jew Satanist some fucking media hog prick?

17:56:32 Tom Metzger: Well, it's 180 degree difference. Hey,

17:56:35 Shane Bugbee: Keep it down. I like to hear myself. The feedback I gotta hear in the headphones. Okay, I just heard myself.

17:56:40 Amy Bugbee: 180 degree difference on the old chat room. In fact, Genocide is offering to give up their 13 year old daughter to you.

17:56:47 Shane Bugbee: Oh, hey, bring them back. You know what, you'll get a free t shirt and then some. Bring her by. Oh my god, I was grabbed my penis as I said that. Can you say penis on the air?

17:56:59 Amy Bugbee: Most of them don't have much good to say about the news groups, especially alt.Satanism. So..

17:57:05 Shane Bugbee: Well, you know, whatever. Everyone's got their right to their opinion. And that's cool. You know, but you're stupid folks. And you. You're sitting there, righting...you know, whatever.

17:57:14 Doug Misicko: So the emails all the same identifiers. They know what the real deal is. Shane Bugbee: Well, you know, whatever. Everyone's got their right to their opinion. And that's cool. You know, but you're stupid folks. And you. You're sitting there, righting...you know, whatever.

17:57:14 Doug Misicko: So the emails all the same identifiers. They know what the real deal is.

17:57:22 Shane Bugbee: Thank you, Doug. You know what? We may give you a sandwich for that. Oh, you know what, Doug is one of these motherfuckers doesn't eat he's really skinny. And I don't think I've seen him eat anything today but a handful of almonds. It's amazing to me. Let me see I got a phone call... Hello? Hello? Marvin. No. A wipe. Ass wipe. What? A wipe. Oh yeah, this is Marvin's wife. Dumb fuck. Oh, wow.

17:58:23 Doug Misicko: Another beautiful email?

17:58:24 Shane Bugbee: It actually has my name which I always if it's not hearing my voice you know I really love hearing my voice but the one thing that's better than hear my own voice is seeing my name in print spelled properly. Doug Misicko: Another beautiful email?

17:58:24 Shane Bugbee: It actually has my name which I always if it's not hearing my voice you know I really love hearing my voice but the one thing that's better than hear my own voice is seeing my name in print spelled properly.

17:58:40 Doug Misicko: What is it and who's it from?

17:58:41 Shane Bugbee: Here's the full I don't know. I wish I wish but who knows what will happen?

17:58:55 Doug Misicko: What are you doing? Wake up.

17:58:56 Shane Bugbee: You fucking say sup motherfucker. Well, don't depend on me to carry the weight here.

17:59:01 Amy Bugbee: It's almost time to give Mr. Metzger a call back.

17:59:04 Shane Bugbee: Did he say so?

17:59:06 Amy Bugbee: Well, no but we can give him a ring-a-ding again.

17:59:08 Shane Bugbee: Hey.

17:59:12 Amy Bugbee: What?

17:59:14 Shane Bugbee: You don't fuck with Tom Metzger, he'll send the boot boys over. Okay?

17:59:19 Amy Bugbee: Does he not give ringy-dings?

17:59:20 Shane Bugbee: Don't know what he gives. Let's give him a call and see if he's gonna pick up the phone.

17:59:24 Amy Bugbee: All right, let's try.

17:59:27 Shane Bugbee: I'm sure he's blowing us off. I'm sure he was offended by the nigger and or Jew comment. Fucking Metzger Come on, man. Good old Tommy Metzger. I believe his websites resist.com Let me see here resist and wonder what his chatroom says. Maybe they'll say you know they've been talking to a Jew. Well, that commie camp what was the guy.

17:59:59 Tom Metzger: You have to leave your message. Thank you.

Hour 19

18:00:07 Amy Bugbee: Hi, Tom. This is Amy bugbee calling again about the old radio show.

18:00:12 Shane Bugbee: Come on. Tommy. We're here. Wait, man.

18:00:16 Amy Bugbee: We're ready when you are. You can call.

18:00:19 Shane Bugbee: Tommy we are full white in here. There's no half breeds. Everyone here has blue eyes. We're on it brother. Want to talk to you. Pick up the phone. We must have lost them with that bad PR, for wanting to ass rape a 13 year old girl.

18:00:47 Doug Misicko: I think Metzger considers himself Catholic.

18:00:53 Shane Bugbee: Really?

18:00:55 Doug Misicko: That's what I read.

18:00:56 Shane Bugbee: So was that mean?

18:00:59 Doug Misicko: Just seems contradictory to me to be a Catholic Nazi.

18:01:05 Shane Bugbee: Well it was great. When we went to the Klan museum. We went to the Klan Museum in South Carolina me and Amy It was funny they were all "you join, you should join". You look like a good upstanding Christian. Wonder what what is his resistance? Come on Doug. You can say something I know you could say somebody Why don't you say something about... Is the number there? Give him a call, we'll see. We're gonna try to call one of our friends a survivor of the Waco tragedy one of the only survivors that's not in prison there's a friend of ours well you know friend as far as that goes, he wants he wants total Armageddon. He says fuck it let's see who's left standing at the end of the world and I'm all for that.

18:01:55 Unknown: [Phone Ringing] Shane Bugbee: Well it was great. When we went to the Klan museum. We went to the Klan Museum in South Carolina me and Amy It was funny they were all "you join, you should join". You look like a good upstanding Christian. Wonder what what is his resistance? Come on Doug. You can say something I know you could say somebody Why don't you say something about... Is the number there? Give him a call, we'll see. We're gonna try to call one of our friends a survivor of the Waco tragedy one of the only survivors that's not in prison there's a friend of ours well you know friend as far as that goes, he wants he wants total Armageddon. He says fuck it let's see who's left standing at the end of the world and I'm all for that.

18:01:55 Shane Bugbee: Well it was great. When we went to the Klan museum. We went to the Klan Museum in South Carolina me and Amy It was funny they were all "you join, you should join". You look like a good upstanding Christian. Wonder what what is his resistance? Come on Doug. You can say something I know you could say somebody Why don't you say something about... Is the number there? Give him a call, we'll see. We're gonna try to call one of our friends a survivor of the Waco tragedy one of the only survivors that's not in prison there's a friend of ours well you know friend as far as that goes, he wants he wants total Armageddon. He says fuck it let's see who's left standing at the end of the world and I'm all for that.

18:02:13 Shane Bugbee: Internet radio [ring] we just have friendly chat with them. [ring] Is that the seven seals phone number Amy? That's a secret society right there but you might want to uh... Oh wow, what the hell's going on here? Wow, Tom Metzger site is down. Totally down, it says Clear Live communications, the virtual... .com is not active. Oh man. Wow, that's spooky his sites down. Oh, wow.

18:03:01 Doug Misicko: Feds got to him first.

18:03:05 Shane Bugbee: Wow. That's crazy. His whole website's down, it is resist and just check it out.

18:03:20 Tom Metzger: I guess the feds got somebody.

18:03:23 Shane Bugbee: Well, I know I saw one valuable piece of information on Tom Metzger's website was really good. And it was the best piece of advice I think I've ever gotten, especially when dealing with government officials and this guy has had his whole life taken away because of a magazine he published. And because some idiot went out and shot some black or Jewish folk and this guy he gets his whole his house taken away, gets sued to the to the elbows or whatever and... he put out this video on his website and he talks about, it shows him with FBI agents coming to talk to him about, I believe it was either Oklahoma City or 9-11, his they're involved the white supremist involvement and he said all you say to police is I have nothing to say is that seven words I have nothing to say five words. Yeah the five words you always say that's all you say to police is I have nothing to say. I have nothing to say because the minute you say one word in the different any different they can arrest you based on your reply. Basically it's a really interesting videos to bad sites not up.

18:04:38 Amy Bugbee: I hope everything's okay.

18:04:41 Shane Bugbee: Wow, well that is not cool because you know, then someone's gonna want to knock on our door or something... I'm sure one of those keen satanist is turning us in or something because they're so appalled. You ever hear of turning it off? Like just turning it off and going away? I mean, I think... I think it got him excited. What do you think, Doug?

18:05:10 Doug Misicko: Yeah, I think so.

18:05:11 Shane Bugbee: What do you think the psychology behind something like that is? Come on. smartass.

18:05:17 Doug Misicko: I wasn't listening.

18:05:19 Shane Bugbee: Oh, it's all these comments about him being from a library now he's not talking he's clamming up. Doug you go take a nap if you're tired, man.

18:05:27 Doug Misicko: Oh no no, I'm here.

18:05:28 Shane Bugbee: ...look doesn't go through the radio, so at least go "eh eh eh." At least do that. Doug Misicko: Oh no no, I'm here.

18:05:28 Shane Bugbee: ...look doesn't go through the radio, so at least go "eh eh eh." At least do that.

18:05:38 Lance Bugbee: Definitely a face for radio.

18:05:42 Shane Bugbee: Oh come on, man. Listen, we're gonna start knife fight in a second.

18:05:48 Doug Misicko: That's right. I mean didn't these people who were offended claim they weren't listening to begin with?

18:06:00 Shane Bugbee: Well, most words that's the funniest part about it. I'll never listen to church or Radio Free Satan. And they weren't even listening but they'll listen to their friend that that comments about it. What kind of group of followers is this? The leaders in the pack, it seems like in that board.

18:06:17 Tom Metzger: I know, a bunch of losers.

18:06:21 Shane Bugbee: True leader would just get on with his fucking day click the computer out if he doesn't like what he's hearing and get on with. You know, whatever. Toilet wash and losers. You bet. I bet you got to go to your toy store job. Probably you know work at a toy store bookstore. Fucking bookstore cunts. Believe me, I only talk like this because I have a very limited vocabulary. I dropped out of school at 16 and I've seemed to have survived this far. It's just a limited vocabulary, cocksucker. [Silence] Just don't talk. No one talk, except Doug. This is Doug's half hour, we're just gonna sit here and be quiet and what you know that's it and then that's it so this is Doug the the such a creative genius and artists that did the artwork for Might is Right and he's going to let it all flow right now. He's not going he's got a lot of hate, he say.s Here you go Mike the mics... there you go Doug. It's all you, baby.

18:07:28 Doug Misicko: Just imagine me looking really good.

18:07:38 Amy Bugbee: Keep talking...

18:07:39 Doug Misicko: That's all I got. That's all I'm good for.

18:07:43 Shane Bugbee: So if you want that kind of creativity in your in your projects, please try to hire Doug. He's a real creative genius. He has a lot to express, a lot to say. You know, it's good. I thought we would I was trying to get someone in here to beat or something you know but now it's good, Doug is burned out. I love it. It's survival of the fattest in this room. Skinny prick. It's these fat cells, they hold in the caffeine, the sugars, it just keeps you up for fucking days. The smart, yeah holds in. Hey, Radio Free Satan just got a $20 donation.

18:08:28 Amy Bugbee: Wow, this is like a telethon.

18:08:30 Shane Bugbee: Raul. Raul. You are alright Raul. Hey, Raul, A-M-E-Z. Is that a... What kind of name is that? I bet you if you call him a spic, he'd say "I'm Spanish," but I wouldn't Raul, because you donated 20 bucks to Radio Free Satan. You are pretty cool guy, man. You're gonna get a little something extra in that envelope Raul. I might just wear that T shirt, before I give it to you for free. Okay? Get it nice and sweaty and send it to you. Eh? Eh? Okay, back to.. Oh, wait, my microphone is on Naomi's is off.

18:09:12 Amy Bugbee: Oh, Nice.

18:09:14 Shane Bugbee: Thanks Doug. You're really destroying the radio show.

18:09:18 Doug Misicko: I was pointing that out to ya.

18:09:21 Tom Metzger: This is turning into a train wreck. We're gonna have to call Eugene back, to get someone to talk.

18:09:27 Shane Bugbee: We need someone to talk. Let's call Eugene. You know, Doug complained about Eugene and Eugene, If you're listening, you see this is the kind of guy is complaining about you. He's the guy talked too much. He couldn't get a word in edgewise. And now we know why he didn't have a word. edgewise.

18:09:43 Amy Bugbee: Nothing to say well, maybe we'll liven it up with some exciting mine is right. Inspired music.

18:09:53 Shane Bugbee: See the swastika turning, turning?

18:10:00 Amy Bugbee: Shane's gonna sing for us now, c'mon.

18:10:05 Shane Bugbee: I need some Elvis lyrics I can only sing Elv...but my brothers are good Elvis impersonator. Not you. You're a good impersonation of a meatball.

18:10:14 Lance Bugbee: Nice.

18:10:17 Amy Bugbee: It's getting ugly in here.

18:10:18 Lance Bugbee: I like food.

18:10:21 Shane Bugbee: And Doug you're looking like dinner. Yeah, that's all you're good for now. Sandwich meat, motherfucker.

18:10:27 Doug Misicko: That's right.

18:10:29 Amy Bugbee: It's getting ugly in here.

18:10:30 Shane Bugbee: When the three of us start looking at you like a sandwich. You should worry.

18:10:34 Amy Bugbee: Is the time to tie your wrists together and give you each a knife?

18:10:37 Shane Bugbee: Yes.

18:10:40 Amy Bugbee: All right.

18:10:41 Shane Bugbee: Yes, please. Let's go. Let's go. Come on. Let's go outside. I ain't fucking with you, punk. ...still nothing to say. Just look at him. He's like, come on, dude.

18:10:56 Amy Bugbee: Are we playing so...

18:10:57 Shane Bugbee: I got it, Amy's gonna see the magic of Shane. Shane on the mic.

18:11:06 Amy Bugbee: Magic of Shane. Something I'm lucky enough to experience every day.

18:11:19 Shane Bugbee: You really did experience the magic of Shane. ...destroy something on purpose. All right, I got it.

18:12:07 Amy Bugbee: We trying that again?

18:12:08 Shane Bugbee: This is for all you homos on that personal Satan board. [nazi music] Hey,that was Carnivor. Now here's more fun, fun or I'm gonna play an old George Eric Hawthorne piece from when he was running resistance Rex records. He was in the band RAHOWA. And, this is a spoken word. It's about 20 minutes. And it's got a really cool song at the end.

18:28:45 Tom Metzger: Remember when we went up to see RAHOWA play in Canada?

18:28:48 Shane Bugbee: That was wicked intense. It was like the A ticket in Disney World. We drove up George had written the afterword to the last printing of Might is Right that we did. And he invited us up to see the band. And we couldn't refuse a band with the name "racial holy war". So we went up for this is my first experience at a skinhead rally, Nazi youth pack in the place 200 skinheads, was crazy what?

18:29:19 Amy Bugbee: We drove up there, we had to stop and get searched at the border, because they said they were searching everyone that fit a profile because there was a hate rally going on. And then when we got up to the venue, which was a Polish Hall, right, a Polish veterans Hall, the Canadian Mounties were there and they took down our license plate number, our VIN number, our driver's license numbers, and they said they were going to report him to the United States government. And we went in and there was a wedding going on and the band play.

18:29:56 Shane Bugbee: It was at an old Polish VFW Hall. And the old guy made sandwiches for everyone. It was a really cool thing. And George proclaimed, it wasn't about hate. It was about love of your own people. And it was a really intense experience because these folks were really angry and they're all like, "Seig hail. Seig hail!" and the cops came in. And these all these Nazi skinhead turned around like they were going to run at the cops. And the cops backed right out the door. And it was like 40 cops versus 200 skinheads and all the skinheads looked at these cops, and they were about the charge, and the cops backed off. And then the cop sent a interracial couple to walk back and forth in front of the entrance trying to provoke a riot. So they could bust some skulls.

18:30:49 Tom Metzger: But it didn't happen because everybody knew it was a plant.

18:30:53 Shane Bugbee: It almost happened, man, those guys are motherfuckers they were tough.

18:30:57 Amy Bugbee: It was quite an experience.

18:30:58 Shane Bugbee: They wanted to run out there and beat the cops.

18:31:02 Amy Bugbee: When when the Cavs came in, they all started yelling "pig pigs pigs". The whole place.

18:31:10 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that was an interesting time. That was a good time. I'd like to see George's new band. That'd be such a crazy difference. Bubbles. Nice rainbow lighting, mellow, moody stuff. We're gonna play some of his new bands soon, too. He sent me a song he wanted me to play. So we're gonna start something right now.

18:31:33 [noises]

18:32:24 You know, I think I'm playing the wrong one. So I'm going to stop this and I'm going to move this one up here. And then we're gonna play that.

18:32:35 Testing is this thing on? Hello? Hello? testing. I don't think this fucking shit is working hello hello testing is this Hello? Hello testing. Hello Is this thing on this fucking internet broadcasting What the fuck is fucking stupid computer? Hello hello is this thing on? Ah fuck it, man. fucking sick motherfuck...[profanity] Oh shit, I think this shit works.

18:36:01 Pre-record (masc): Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Amputate those legs, lop the head off. lop the head off. decapitate decapitate the head, lop it off. Amputate the head, beaty it in, cut those eyes out, lop the limbs off cut em out lop em off, amputatem, decapitate kill kill kill.

18:36:54 Amy Bugbee: The speaker you're about to listen to is George Eric Hawthorne, founder of resistance records, editor of resistance magazine, lead vocalist of RAHOWA and lifelong white racial activists. Through thick and thin Mr. Hawthorne has stay true to his values and urged others to do the same. His progressive contributions to the white racialist movement are testimony to the power of one white man, who's alive with the type of determination characteristic of our great ancestors. The title of this presentation is Blood Destiny. I give you, George Eric Hawthorne. Pre-record (masc): Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Amputate those legs, lop the head off. lop the head off. decapitate decapitate the head, lop it off. Amputate the head, beaty it in, cut those eyes out, lop the limbs off cut em out lop em off, amputatem, decapitate kill kill kill.

18:36:54 Unknown: [music] Amy Bugbee: The speaker you're about to listen to is George Eric Hawthorne, founder of resistance records, editor of resistance magazine, lead vocalist of RAHOWA and lifelong white racial activists. Through thick and thin Mr. Hawthorne has stay true to his values and urged others to do the same. His progressive contributions to the white racialist movement are testimony to the power of one white man, who's alive with the type of determination characteristic of our great ancestors. The title of this presentation is Blood Destiny. I give you, George Eric Hawthorne. Pre-record (masc): Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Amputate those legs, lop the head off. lop the head off. decapitate decapitate the head, lop it off. Amputate the head, beaty it in, cut those eyes out, lop the limbs off cut em out lop em off, amputatem, decapitate kill kill kill.

18:36:54 Amy Bugbee: The speaker you're about to listen to is George Eric Hawthorne, founder of resistance records, editor of resistance magazine, lead vocalist of RAHOWA and lifelong white racial activists. Through thick and thin Mr. Hawthorne has stay true to his values and urged others to do the same. His progressive contributions to the white racialist movement are testimony to the power of one white man, who's alive with the type of determination characteristic of our great ancestors. The title of this presentation is Blood Destiny. I give you, George Eric Hawthorne. Pre-record (masc): Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Beat that head in. Cut those eyes out. Amputate those legs, lop the head off. lop the head off. decapitate decapitate the head, lop it off. Amputate the head, beaty it in, cut those eyes out, lop the limbs off cut em out lop em off, amputatem, decapitate kill kill kill.

18:36:54 Amy Bugbee: The speaker you're about to listen to is George Eric Hawthorne, founder of resistance records, editor of resistance magazine, lead vocalist of RAHOWA and lifelong white racial activists. Through thick and thin Mr. Hawthorne has stay true to his values and urged others to do the same. His progressive contributions to the white racialist movement are testimony to the power of one white man, who's alive with the type of determination characteristic of our great ancestors. The title of this presentation is Blood Destiny. I give you, George Eric Hawthorne.

18:41:41 George Eric Hawthorne: What I'm about to talk to you about is disturbing. by today's standards, I am considered an evil man, a radical. I have been condemned in the media and sentenced to a life of harassment due to my opinions. But I asked the world, what is evil. And the truth is that evil is often just a label that the system attaches on whatever threatens those in power. What is a radical? a radical is someone that challenges convention, anyone who promotes change is a radical. Throughout history, we are progress to radicals. Now that we have gotten that out of the way, let there be nothing between us, dear listener, that will prevent you from absorbing what I will be discussing for the next little while. I want you to listen carefully, and understand what I am saying. Because the future of the white race, and even possibly life on this planet, depends on these ideas being realized and acted upon. We live in an era when we are given far too much information about far too many things. No one can possibly keep abreast of everything that is happening in the world. And even the nightly news takes only small selected tidbits of facts and lies, to report into your living room. But what if, amidst all of the nonsense that we have to shift through something horrible was happening, something nearly unspeakable, and none of the mainstream media reported it? Well, something that I can only describe in these terms is indeed happening. The white people, the descendants of Europe, that lives scattered around the globe, are slowly but steadily disappearing from the earth. In 1931, in every four people on the planet was white. But by 1970, only one in every 10 people were white. And today in 1996, one in every 14 people are white, only one out of every 30 babies born this year were white. And this indicates that once this new generation has grown up, we will be virtually swamped. In a rising tide of color that may be too late to stop. There are only a few ways that someone can react to these figures. The first way, and perhaps the most common is to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it will just go away. If you watch a lot of TV, and drink a lot of alcohol. Others choose to deny that these figures are even true, and will try to write me off as a paranoid man. Others still will believe that this nightmare scenario was happening will indeed see it going on all around them. But we'll be too interested in preserving their own little piece of the pie to ever actually try and fight it. But there is another group of you out there who do none of the above. And you are of my kind. You are brave men and women, you are fiercely loyal to your ancestors and to your culture, and to your people. And you want to work to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children. You are prepared to give ready to sacrifice, ready to charge off into battle with banners flying to reclaim what is ours by the sign of blood. But first, before any of this will happen. We must know what is wrong with our people. And therefore how we are going to fight this insidious system to win for nothing short of total victory counts in a war for the survival of your kind. Because extinction is forever. With so much at stake for our people today. With our birth rate plummeting, with previously Uncharted levels of non white immigration pouring through our borders, with race mixing being promoted and accepted as being invoked. You would think that masses of white people will be rising up in righteous dissension to assert their right to life and self determination. But instead it seems that something has sapped our will to live. Let us examine what is wrong with white people that they are so unwilling to fight to preserve their own race and culture. When psychiatrists analyze the reasons given by those who have attempted suicide, an extremely common reason is the feeling of lack of self worth. Obviously, it is a rare situation for someone with high self esteem to try and end their own life. Conversely, any nation or race of people that has no collective self esteem, or what would more appropriately be called pride, find themselves quickly searching for reasons to fight an obvious threat. You hear a disarming number of people nowadays, when presented with the argument that the white race is in jeopardy, that only respond with the WHO CARES argument? Clear I've even received a letter from a particularly soulless White, who even argued that treason to whiteness is a loyalty to humanity. He went on to argue that he has consciously chosen to race mix, because he feels that the white race has been a social plague throughout history and needs to be obliterated, like a cancer. Essentially, much like the depressed tortured soul that attempts suicide. due to a lack of self worth. This man clearly has no concept of what it means to be white. Well, he was perhaps white skin, and genetically white. As a descendant of white parents. There was something much different between this individual and myself. For I spend my life fanatically dedicated to awakening the slumbering white masses, who are a potential army of dormant fighters. While this race mixer chooses instead to plunge with arter into the abyss of self defilement. So where lies the difference between he and I, I have a racial consciousness, a racial soul, where he has nothing but avoid, he may perhaps be well read and not even know his history. But the facts he has learned about our ancestors are as cold as the algebra or the geography that he studied. He has no connection to his past, not a real connection of understanding and admiration, and paying reverence to this past. Instead, he is spiteful of the accomplishments of his ancestors, although he undoubtedly is living off the results of their sacrifices. Think for a second, about how much we take for granted that the collective genius and heroism of our ancestors has left to us. Electricity, the light bulb, the computer, the airplane, the telephone, the list goes on and on. This fellow that supports race mixing, wrote the letter on paper made in a white invented paper mill, wrote it in ink cultivated by a white with a pen invented by a white, perhaps drove his white invented car to the white created institution known as the postal outlet, and paid to have it delivered to me by any number of white invented transportation methods. In light of this, think of how pathetically hypocritical his urge to race mix is, how could any man be so devoid of respect for the efforts and sacrifices of his forefathers? It is literal treason, if you are going to dishonor the memory of your ancestors, and you should no longer partake in the fruits of their labors. When often asked to share my political beliefs with people, my typical response is that I have no interest in politics, because like it or not, that term and its modern connotations have been taken over by such spineless demonstrations of government bungling, and such blatantly revolting displays of corruption, but to even participate in this farce is to become part of the spectacle yourself. Long ago, a tenacious parasite, gored out the soul of the political machine, and left only the window dressing and the frame of what was once a more noble office. Now, instead of talking about politics, I talk about survival are matters of life and death to be dealt with by balancing petitions? Should one write letters to the representatives of your executioner begging for a chance to live? I think not. Conversely, no matter how many guns and bullets we can stockpile, the system will always have 10,000 times more. No. Our fight is a struggle that must be waged. in the minds of white people, we are our only chance at salvation. And if we die, we are the only ones that deserve the blame. What will we say to the future generations? If faced with the undeniable extinction of our race? I'm sorry, but getting drunk was more important. Or how about the always convincing? I had football games to watch? Will you be able to look into your grandchildren's eyes and tell them that you're sorry, but you voted for the wrong guys. Surely there is more to do than we are doing. Surely, there are tasks left untouched, that must be pursued. Surely there are those among you who are ready and willing to stand at the gates of history and demand entrance. As I said earlier, this is not a matter of political choices. This is a sacred cause, one that must root itself deep in your consciousness, enveloping your soul and setting you alive with passion and purpose. I do not think politically for the white race. I live, breathe and exist for my people. I am as fanatic and radical as any follower of any religion. Because the bottom line is that this is my faith. This is our holy ground. This is the hour of fate for a race that has lived for 1000s of centuries. A great fearsome race that must awaken it's fighting strength to win back the sacred soil of our fathers, white racial comrades, the clouds may have darkened and the Ravens are circling above. But by the blood of our ancestors, we hold the key to our own salvation. Look into your own self, deep into your own racial soul, and uncover the mystery in the magic of our collective blood destiny. White racial comrades, a bold and glorious promise awaits those who are not afraid to partake in the covenant of blood. A great noble truth lies beyond the next horizon. But we must have the will to go there. But the future is filled with peril. Because great sacrifices must be made by those who fight the struggle. High have burned the bridges behind me. And with every extra warrior that does the same. Our army swells in might, and potential. Remember, you must lose sight of the shore to discover new lands. A wonderful world awaits us if we win. I firmly believe that although the odds are great, we have a lot on our side to be confident in. We have a blossoming energetic young movement, filled with fanatically dedicated fighters and thinkers. And this growth is happening right under the noses of a system that thought we were dying. And that the only people that thought like us were over the age of 50. Well, take another look. We are fearless and forthright and determined as ever to take a stand despite all the odds. I will leave you with one idea that I firmly believe in and that if everyone follows, we cannot lose. Here it is. The first step to conquering the world is conquering the self. You are the first step in that is where your battle should rage. In your mind. educated in your muscles, train them in your spirit. be in tune with your racial soul. Become a living breathing embodiment of the ideals which we live for. And all who come in contact with you will admire you for your strength of purpose, your conviction and your devotion to the values which give your life meaning. See, seek your blood destiny. My white racial comrades, find it in your own racial soul. And then bring the good news to the world that the white race shall indeed rise again.

18:56:30 Shane Bugbee: Now, we're going to get to Our final speaker this evening. And that's Reverend George Eric Hawthorne, of the North Carolina based Church of the Creator, does 22 year old heritage fund associate, has appeared on the Geraldo and now Jimmy Colt programs... He is representing the white race. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome George Eric Hawthorne.

Hour 20

18:57:21 George Eric Hawthorne: There's power in the air tonight that we can all feel. it's a power of becoming white resurgence. I would like to start tonight by getting a quote, spoken by Friedrich Nietzsche. He said, The key to harvesting the most enjoyment from life is to live dangerously. Build your cities on the slopes of the Soviets send your ships into uncharted waters. Live at war. There's another quote that I would like to cite by Nietzsche. And this is my message to all of my white racial comrades that have gathered here this evening. It goes, my brothers in the war. I love you from the very heart. I am and always have been of your kind. So let me tell you the truth. I know the hatred and envy of your hearts, we are not great enough not to no hatred and envy. So be great enough not to be ashamed of them. As America and the rest of the world pledges further and further towards total collapse and complete NRP. As our race enters into the final hour of decision, when our faith will be decided we must take a step back and criticize our approach to a solution. There is a plethora of organizations too numerous to cite, that have declared themselves able and willing to solve the problems that the white race is facing. Most of these are making a full time preoccupation by fighting the symptoms of white decay and corruption without attempting to analyze the situation in order to determine why we are in this dire predicament. In a chorus most individuals will answer "it's the Negroes. They're mixing with our kind and biologically destroying our gene pool." Yes, that is true. We are under attack on that front. But that is not the problem. Others might respond, "The core of the problem rests with the Jews, one of the main proponents of race mixing, through the media; which they own and control. Although the statement is partially true, it doesn't really get to the heart of the matter. You see my white racial comrades, the problem lies within us. Right down to the last man, it is our fault that we are in this potentially catastrophic situation. It was we who bought a Middle Eastern religion had poisoned the future with a childish flight from reality. It was our clients who did not heed the warnings of Benjamin Franklin, Adolf Hitler, Henry Ford and others regarding our enemies decades after decade after decade, injustice after injustice, we have sheepishly tolerated their advances upon our rich racial and cultural heritage. For the most part, we have become a race of cowards. We have ourselves to blame. Like cattle we graze on diets and potato chips, hamburgers and beer. Or pastures are called living rooms or more appropriately dying rooms where we gaze Growing electronic boxes, which provide our daily dose of Pavlovian programming. Like cattle, we are being fattened up to be led to slaughter. But we choose not to see it that way. We are incredibly strong, if only we chose to use our strength, but we are too lazy to move. Sometimes we feel like robbing the white race by the scruff of the neck and saying wake up goddamnit you're sitting on a bloody timebomb. Now stand up and move. Just like we were living in the twilight zone. They sleep on obeying, whimpering, intoxicated and lazy, blissful in their ignorance and somewhat annoyed that we have disturbed them. You see, you cannot teach an animal to care about its own survival. You either recognize a threat and destroy it. Or you are destroyed. No one needs to teach the deer to flee when it crosses past with a with a pack of hungry wolves instinctively knows to run without questioning its impulses. Can you imagine how pathetic it would appear? To see a zebra rolling around playfully on the ground while an angry Tiger licked his chops in anticipation. The Bible prophesizes that the lion shall lay with the lamb in heaven, meaning that the two can cohabitate peacefully without attacking one another. But this is unnatural and it is an undesirable goal. We must feel the nature that is inside of us. We must... we must bring out the wild and savage instincts of man reactionary mechanisms in the time when we were still barbarians. When the spoken word meant little when blood and still ruled the earth. We must awaken the animals with inside of us. We cannot reason with the herd. For there is no rational thought behind their behavior. We could present literally reams of statistics mountains of evidence, and they wouldn't care a bit less sleep. Sleep is good. They chanting they're barely audible tone and sleep they do. The vast majority of the population are not interested in being saved from anything except their own convoluted fears of eternal damnation. And if it weren't for them that I was fighting, I would throw in the towel and let them pay the piper. They wanted it. So let them get it good and hard. But we are not struggling for them. In the words of a German philosopher, we are fighting for what we used to be what we ought to be now and what we shall be again. We are hoping to usher in the brand new dawn of the glorious white superman. The future shall be a world, a whiter and brighter world that shall surpass all past civilizations in magnificence and beauty. Together, my white racial comrades, we shall conquer the world for our people. What is necessary is a total worldwide revolution in values, an upheaval that just might throw this planet off its axis. The flames of revolution are starting to burn today, perhaps just as sacred candles giving light. But these kinds of fires shall culminate soon, setting the world ablaze. Men will never become passionate enough to throw themselves into the flames of such a revolution by changing war cries of favorable trade balance and equal rights for whites. No, it was white men of courage. White men or strength. White men of fury and blazing anger, that conquered this world and it is the exact type of white men that shall win it back. Adolf Hitler said, terror can only be broken by a greater terror. It is the quality of our enemies, the human rats that they are to be sneaky, deceitful, and to shroud their program of world domination in a cloak of lies. Many white racialists choose to take a similar approach to disguise our values in order to trick the masses into agreeing with us. They argue against immigration that will, quote, upset the ethnic balance of our nation and erode the common foundation of culture that we once shared. And the culture conservatives who believe that we must, quote, stop foreign aid giveaways and think of our nation first. These groups are trying to teach our ideology without really exposing it. But contrary to being left alone, they are persecuted every bit as much, still denounced as neo-nazi, racist and violent fascists. It is a quality of the white man to be forceful, direct, uncompromising, determined, and resolute. It is not becoming of a white man to deny his values and beliefs and to attempt to blend with the human rats and pretend that we are really rats ourselves. I say to hell, with all of the sneaky half hearted attempts at addressing the problems that we face. If we are to stand at the threshold of history, I think heroes and warriors of our people can let us hold our heads high in total, and open the fires of this insane and unholy world conspiracy that threatens to engulf all of humanity in tyranical hold. I said, Let us be what we are. We cannot shy away from what history has ordained as an inescapable necessity. We must remember that it is a long and arduous process of building an organization that can meet this system, cut off, and destroy it. Temporary, flashy political successes are relatively easy to attain. But it takes years of sweat and toil to build a real muscle on your body, instead of just putting pads in your jackets. Even though the majority of our people are cowards, glass jawed yuppies and whips, I would estimate that roughly 1% of our people still have the guts and raw courage it takes to overwhelm the enemy. If I were to assume that my figuer was correct, then that means there are approximately 2 million white men of the caliber that we need, residing right here in North America alone. So another 3 million fighters in Europe, not to mention Australia, and South Africa, who are all considered, form an international network of over 5 million white warriors aroused, organized and united, victory will be ours. Now it is our sacred trust, our duty to reach those men of character, to discipline and to train ourselves, how to raise the battle flag, such shall never be tore down. Even if we have to chase them across the four corners of the earth. Even if we must be attacked, hounded and brutalized. We shall not turn the other cheek. We shall not pretend to love our enemies. And one thing, that we certainly will not do is scurry among the human rats and ask them for forgiveness for what we believe. No, we shall meet them on the battlefield of life and death. They shall feel our wrath, and with mighty and unrepentant hands, we shall claim back the land that our forefathers discovered, covered, claimed, lived, and died for. Feel the strength of true white men? Let them once again fear our people as the defenders of righteousness and truth. Let them cringe at the coming of the racial holy war. On your feet, my brothers. White power. [chanting]

19:13:45 Unknown: [racist music]

19:14:57 Pre-record (masc): Yeah, hi, I've been getting some harassing emails from Shane Bugbee. I don't know how he got my email address. I don't want any more emails from him ever again. I'm on the email list, and he's... He's trying to send me something. I'm a writer. I don't think you guys want to get bad press for whatever labels you have whatever kind of band you're trying to push. But I really don't appreciate getting emails from him. I want to be taken off the list if I don't get taken off the list. And I stopped getting these harassing emails from him. I'm just gonna have to keep calling his phone number and just charging up the stupid fucking line. Whatever you guys are trying to sell. I don't want any more emails from him. Thanks a lot.

19:17:16 Canned Audio: My voice is your master. The sound of my voice is your master. I am your master. Survival. Obedience is the key to survival. Obedience the key to survival. You will obey all of my commands. Obedience the key to survival. You will obey all of my commands. Obedience is the key to survival.

19:19:34 Hello, Jesus how're you doing? Hey Jesus. Thanks for calling from heaven, I want your poop. Can I have some.Thank you, send it to me right away. Thank you Jesus. Thank you, for your poopie. Thank you, for your poopie.

19:19:54 Well, well, well, they shake that twat hole. whoa whoa whoa shake it that bootay Hello Do you understand? And then they go around spitting out poop farts. I mean like no poop comes out just farts and that's them talking all the time about Jesus' poop. [unintelligable]

19:21:14 Absolutely no desire to start torturing myself. Do it now. The guy has a map. Do it now. Are you like this this moment and shining and wonderful as the love in your eyes get myself a good life settle down for the rest of my life.

19:26:04 Shane Bugbee: Oh hey, rockin roll.

19:26:09 Tom Metzger: So we're back

19:26:10 Shane Bugbee: I hope you like that that was that was... I don't need it. That was all for... oh yeah, I guess I do need it, Doug. I need it now, bitch.

19:26:17 Amy Bugbee: Give it to 'em. Give it to 'em and face the consequences.

19:26:20 Shane Bugbee: You're gonna face it. No, that those songs went out for the lovely personal Satan chat group. you know, I have no hate for you. only love. It's about love not hate, brothers. As long as you buy and Might is Right, that is okay. On sale evilmall.com 16.66 you get two for the price one tonight only. Doug has drawn some really beautiful art and a couple of the books, you should pick one up, leather bound 100 bucks. All the books will be signed and numbered. We're about to go on the air with Tommy Metzger. It's Tom Metzger, I believe Well, we'll let him tell you his story. And I think I bet you the folks at Radio Free State would like to hear a disclaimer.

19:27:08 Amy Bugbee: Yes, cuz he's saying he'd like to make it perfectly clear he had nothing to do with this show. That's what Rich just said in his in the chat room.

19:27:19 Shane Bugbee: Oh, Rich. Xena diaper pooping. poopy pants [noises] Alright, well, we'll be back.

19:27:45 Pre-record (fem): Today, topics expressed on this program, maybe just plugged in. Plugging in this program are solely the opinions of the system. If the opinions of any member of Radio Free Satan or Mephisto media, some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know and some of them are the opinions of people that we just make. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do, dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot. And we sponsible for your stupidity. Insert.

19:28:27 Pre-record (masc): People have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals, preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, or a female some sort of intrauterine device insists they wear it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are.

19:29:08 Canned Audio: Here at Beelzebub motors, we'll fix your car or truck up, real nice. With our professional auto detail, it all committed to quality and service. But as soon as your [unintelligable] we all going back to the shop and listen to that there Radio Free Satan. That way. We enjoy our favorite shows while you're pay a heeping bunch for a tune-up. Well, that's radio free satan, station for real smart folk.

19:29:42 Evilnow.com your home for hate. Evilnow.com your home for Satan. Evilnow.com we love to hate you.

19:30:05 Pre-record (fem): Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of Radio Free Satan or Mephisto media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know and some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot, and we refuse to be held responsible for your stupidity. In short, don't try this at home or at all.

19:30:45 Pre-record (masc): Its effect. Stupid people have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals, preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, and odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, or a female some sort of intrauterine device insists they wear it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are.

19:31:29 Here at Beelzebub motors, we'll fix your car or truck up, real nice. With our professional auto detail, it all committed to quality and service. But as soon as your [unintelligable] we all going back to the shop and listen to that there Radio Free Satan. That way. We enjoy our favorite shows while you're pay a heeping bunch for a tune-up. Well, that's radio free satan, station for real smart folk.

19:32:03 Shane Bugbee: Evil now calm your home for hate. Evil now calm your home for sale. Google now.com would love to hate you.

19:32:26 Doug Misicko: Natural selection and modern civilizations has ceased to exist. Today we live in a world overpopulated with bottom feeders. The pool is overfilled. With the drags. There's no inherent value on a human life. The value is earned and most people are running the deficit. They're worse than worthless. They're counterproductive. What can be done? www.dysgenix.com

19:32:59 Shane Bugbee: Tommy Metzger answer that phone.

19:33:03 Amy Bugbee: Are you ready?

19:33:05 Shane Bugbee: Ready.

19:33:05 Amy Bugbee: All right.

19:33:06 Tom Metzger: Cool.

19:33:08 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, sounds good Tom.

19:33:10 Tom Metzger: Good.

19:33:11 Shane Bugbee: So How you doing today?

19:33:13 Tom Metzger: Everything's fine. But you know, I forgot about what the timing was for our interview. And we got the crew from the British Broadcasting Company in here. And they've been following me around for a few days. I got to do a big show over there in November, I guess on BBC.

19:33:32 That's exciting.

19:33:33 Yeah.

19:33:35 Doug Misicko: Well, there's a book just came out...

19:33:37 Tom Metzger: ...got Louie Thoreau, here. The hottest guy in England.

19:33:40 Shane Bugbee: Who's that?

19:33:41 Tom Metzger: Louis Thoreau's show?

19:33:45 Shane Bugbee: And what are they doing with you?

19:33:47 Just follow me around and get me to say whatever they can get me to say.

19:33:55 You know, the best thing I saw on your website was a thing where you say, What was that again? say? Nothing. "I have nothing to say."

19:34:05 Tom Metzger: Oh, did you see the video clip?

19:34:07 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah, that was intense.

19:34:09 Tom Metzger: Oh, that's. Yeah, that was great. We love that. And we think it's good training material.

19:34:15 Shane Bugbee: Have you know, I'm in the room with my wife, Amy. And the gentleman who did some of the artwork for Might is Right. His name's Doug. He had a couple questions for you, Tom.

19:34:25 Tom Metzger: Okay, Annie and Doug.

19:34:28 Doug Misicko: How you doing?

19:34:29 Tom Metzger: Pretty good. How are you?

19:34:30 Doug Misicko: All right. So are you still head of the white aryan resistance?

19:34:33 Tom Metzger: That's me. I'm the director. Doug Misicko: All right. So are you still head of the white aryan resistance?

19:34:33 Tom Metzger: That's me. I'm the director.

19:34:36 Shane Bugbee: Okay. What's your website? Tom?

19:34:38 Tom Metzger: resist.com

19:34:40 Shane Bugbee: You know, that's down, right?

19:34:42 Tom Metzger: Well, it was down. Yeah. And then it was up and it's down again. It looks like we're working on it.

19:34:48 Shane Bugbee: I hear ya, cool. Tom Metzger: Well, it was down. Yeah. And then it was up and it's down again. It looks like we're working on it.

19:34:48 Shane Bugbee: I hear ya, cool.

19:34:49 Tom Metzger: We got some people mad at us. You know, I didn't think anybody was mad at us.

19:34:53 Shane Bugbee: You?

19:34:56 Tom Metzger: That's a joke.

19:34:58 Doug Misicko: Alright, Tom. A book came out about a couple weeks ago called "A Hundred Little Hitlers", about a case that you were indirectly involved in. Where you were sued for supposedly inciting some skinheads to kill an Ethiopian. Have you read it? And what do you think?

19:35:12 Tom Metzger: Yeah, yeah, I read it. And that was Eleanor Langer. She spent about 10 years writing that book. And she's been here in Fallbrook, where I live, two or three times, and she's done a million interviews, and it's reasonably fair book. There are some errors, in it and exaggeration, but... Doug Misicko: Alright, Tom. A book came out about a couple weeks ago called "A Hundred Little Hitlers", about a case that you were indirectly involved in. Where you were sued for supposedly inciting some skinheads to kill an Ethiopian. Have you read it? And what do you think?

19:35:12 Tom Metzger: Yeah, yeah, I read it. And that was Eleanor Langer. She spent about 10 years writing that book. And she's been here in Fallbrook, where I live, two or three times, and she's done a million interviews, and it's reasonably fair book. There are some errors, in it and exaggeration, but...

19:35:30 Doug Misicko: Like what?

19:35:32 Tom Metzger: Well, she said that I didn't chase the defendants around or I mean, these witnesses around enough like David Rosella and get their deposition. And she seems to forget, I was a working man, I didn't have the money to chase 'em around and Morris Dees was paying the main witness, 5-600 bucks a month. He took him on trips and fishing trips in the Gulf of Mexico. Offered him a part in a movie and then he paid him, got him a house to live in, got him a job and paid him off, all the time up until the Supreme Court refused to hear our case. So, he was hiding these witnesses, so I couldn't oppose them and I just didn't have the money or the expertise to chase him around the country. And I don't remember every little thing, mistake, because some of them are just little errors she made but then towards the end of the book, she says that Dees has access to my PO Box, which she knows better than that, because I took her to the PO Box and let her watch me open it up and take the money out and take take the letters out and all that kind of stuff. So...

19:36:46 Doug Misicko: So you got along with her generally, the author"

19:36:49 Tom Metzger: Pardon me?

19:36:49 Doug Misicko: You got along with her. The author of the book.

19:36:51 Tom Metzger: Got along with her pretty well, she's Jewish, but she seemed to be pretty fair. Once in a while you run into one like that. Doug Misicko: You got along with her. The author of the book.

19:36:52 Tom Metzger: Got along with her pretty well, she's Jewish, but she seemed to be pretty fair. Once in a while you run into one like that.

19:36:58 Doug Misicko: So not necessarily being Jewish is something you have against somebody, or is it?

19:37:04 Tom Metzger: Well, I? I certainly would. In a lot of ways, look at them carefully. But if they treated me right, and they were honest with me, then I'd give them respect.

19:37:15 Doug Misicko: So it's the Jewish belief you object to not the bloodline?

19:37:18 Tom Metzger: It's the mindset that many of them had. I mean, what we're dealing with ss hybrids, when you talk about jewery. You have you have aryan Jews, biologically aryan. You've got Chinese Jews, biologically Chinese. And you've got black like lots of Jews that are biologically black, but they're Jewish. So that part I think is a mindset.

19:37:49 Doug Misicko: They're, they're following Zionist movement. They're part of an international cabal?

19:37:53 Shane Bugbee: This cult has been around for a long time, you know, from the Middle East. And then, of course, a hybrid, mixed race person who happens to be Jewish, is number one mixed race. Don't accept them anyhow. So I, I'm pretty much of the belief that a person is biologically white and obviously white and European to look at them, that they can, they can quit being Jewish. I mean, many people quit being Baptist and Catholics. So why couldn't they quit being Jewish? Doug Misicko: They're, they're following Zionist movement. They're part of an international cabal?

19:37:53 Shane Bugbee: This cult has been around for a long time, you know, from the Middle East. And then, of course, a hybrid, mixed race person who happens to be Jewish, is number one mixed race. Don't accept them anyhow. So I, I'm pretty much of the belief that a person is biologically white and obviously white and European to look at them, that they can, they can quit being Jewish. I mean, many people quit being Baptist and Catholics. So why couldn't they quit being Jewish?

19:38:26 Doug Misicko: Right, but people of Jewish bloodline can also quit being Jewish.

19:38:29 Shane Bugbee: I don't necessarily buy the Jewish bloodline idea. I know that gets me in trouble with some people. But I used to take that track. But I think that may be a mistake. I believe it's a cultural mindset thing. And though they may have lived in one area for a long time and adapted a certain blood connection, they can't be... They can't be really connected to a race. I mean, as a race. As a Jewish race. I think really, that's where there's been some mistakes made. I get in trouble with a lot of right wingers because they want to just push the Jewish race thing.

19:39:14 Doug Misicko: Well, they are a distinct phenotype. But...

19:39:17 Tom Metzger: Well, I know there's a lot of difference of opinion on this. And... but I have problems when I look at somebody who is obviously aryan, European physically, let's say say they're Jewish. And I tend to say, well, you must be Jewish and mindset, because I don't think we could do a DNA and find a Jewish marker on you. I mean, you've seen these people, they look just as aryan as anybody else but yet they say they're Jews.

19:39:52 Doug Misicko: Well, I'm not sure how deeply even Hitler believed in the bloodline of jewery thing, because it's now known that he aryanized Jews for the German army.

19:40:03 Tom Metzger: I know there was probably 40,000 Jews that fought in the German army, in in World War Two, and probably more than that, in World War One. And so I believe they, if they'd stuck to the Nuremberg laws, things would have worked out. I think they should have deported the non-white Semitic, half breed or whatever type, racial type Jews, and then the Jews that assimilated into the European biological type that renounced Judaism and, and swore allegiance to the Reich should have been left alone. I see it now, after years of study.

19:40:51 Doug Misicko: So do you believe we should have racial laws? And if so what should they be?

19:40:55 Tom Metzger: Well, we, we believe in the 1/16 rule that you could have 1/16 of another racial person in your background blood. And you can still be accepted as white and I believe we now are very, it'd be very easy to breed back up, for a certain number of people because we have the drugs and we have all the technological ability to do that.

19:41:22 Doug Misicko: But what would being being considered white get you in, in your world, if you were in command?

19:41:30 Unknown: Well, we believe in a white state. They, you know, similar to what it once was. Europe was basically white within certain broad guidelines from your English to the north to your Italians in the south. And then these countries start letting non-white blood in, and then gradually they have hundreds of 1000s, if not millions of non-whites in their country. So we must, since we are the minority, really the Europe, the Euro-white race is a smallest, less numerous race in the world. And we're... numbers are falling very fast. We need to establish a power among what I call pan-aryans around the world, and we should have our landmass and make sure that it's for us only.

19:42:24 Doug Misicko: But why really?

19:42:25 Tom Metzger: And beyond that, the other races are welcome to have their traditional homelands and we have no reason to bother them.

19:42:36 Doug Misicko: But why? Why... how would this make it a better world?

19:42:38 Shane Bugbee: I believe that the white race, the aryan race, the Euro-American people are the foremost people in science and music, and all the things that really create what we call "Western culture". Western civilization. I believe, is the people who were the fathers have that idea, disappeared from the earth. Then I believe that the Earth will sink back into a semi barbarism much worse than it is today. That's why I like Might is Right. Because ultimately, white Europeans will return to their original path of natural selection and their ability to conquer and control their lands and decide what they want to do about their racial future. And it's gonna take a momentous struggle. And whites are going to have to cooperate all around the world. We can't have any more of this phony nationalism to split up white people. I mean, I, I don't want to kill any white Russians. I didn't want us to drop nuclear bombs on white Russians. I wanted them to be our, our partners, all the white nations. You can outlive an economic system, that's bad bad, but you cannot outlive genetic destruction. Once your race is gone, it's gone. Doug Misicko: But why? Why... how would this make it a better world?

19:42:38 Shane Bugbee: I believe that the white race, the aryan race, the Euro-American people are the foremost people in science and music, and all the things that really create what we call "Western culture". Western civilization. I believe, is the people who were the fathers have that idea, disappeared from the earth. Then I believe that the Earth will sink back into a semi barbarism much worse than it is today. That's why I like Might is Right. Because ultimately, white Europeans will return to their original path of natural selection and their ability to conquer and control their lands and decide what they want to do about their racial future. And it's gonna take a momentous struggle. And whites are going to have to cooperate all around the world. We can't have any more of this phony nationalism to split up white people. I mean, I, I don't want to kill any white Russians. I didn't want us to drop nuclear bombs on white Russians. I wanted them to be our, our partners, all the white nations. You can outlive an economic system, that's bad bad, but you cannot outlive genetic destruction. Once your race is gone, it's gone.

19:44:25 Tom Metzger: So, as far as the non-whites, what would you have them do? Would you prefer them to be eliminated from the earth? Or just?

19:44:34 Uh, well I'm a strict, strictly a racial separatist. And I don't see any reason why that if we leave non-white people in their countries and the areas where they originated from, to feel to feel for themselves, I don't believe we should give them food production, I don't believe we should give them medical assistance. I believe they should stand on their own, and we should leave them alone. And if they can rise evolutionary wise to what is needed, then they will survive and be fruitful. But the only thing I could see if non-white nations began to spill over their borders and affect the environment severely that impacts white nations, then we would have to intercede, but other than that, I believe we should probably just leave them alone.

19:45:34 So what do you think about what hap... like, what today's anniversary is? What do you think about that?

19:45:42 Well, I think that this is what you call unconventional warfare. I understand it, it has nothing to do with agreeing or not agreeing. I think once the Arabs saw that Bush had become president and certainly that's the most Jewish loving party now really in the country with with the fundamental Christians behind them. I think that the Arabs decided they didn't have any, any, any more opportunity to just dialogue, because they see the tremendous lopsided treatment we give to Israel and we always have so probably what they said screw it and, and said, well, let's pick out a couple of good targets, boys. And they said, "Well, you know, the World Trade Center and is the center of the New World Government trade? How symbolic could that be? That's the most symbolic thing as far as the money is concerned." Then they probably said, "Well, what's next?" ...and said, "Well, the Pentagon, which is the is the symbol of American capitalist, transnational corporation, military power. So that would be the second symbol." ...and so they use very unconventional warfare, to hit those targets. And so that's what they decided to do. And unconventional warfare works that way.

19:47:15 Doug Misicko: So you oppose the christian fundamentalist factions, but my understanding was that you were Catholic.

19:47:22 Tom Metzger: I once was Catholic, but I became an atheist about 1980. And I'm not involved in Christianity at all. In fact, I see Christianity as one of our worst problems. Because it's right now, it's led us to the brink of a nuclear war with these insane people in Washington, these fundamentalists that believe that there has to be a nuclear war, a big battle of Megiddo. And all that before Jesus can come back. And, and so I don't want somebody like that with a finger on the atomic buttons. And guys, the crazy like, Rumsfeld spent $10,000 to cover up a new statue in the White House. I mean, these guys are insane.

19:48:15 Doug Misicko: That was Ashcraft, actually.

19:48:17 Tom Metzger: Ashcroft. Okay, they're both nuts.

19:48:21 Doug Misicko: I agree. What what causes conversion in you?

19:48:24 Tom Metzger: Well, I, I studied, I used to think all the answer to my problems was somewhere to be found in religion. And I studied and studied and studied, and of course, I spent the first 40 years of my life as a Christian. And finally, in about 1980, I sat down and had one of these... I don't know what you'd call it, but it came to me, I'm sitting in my office and I said, "Hey, you know, the problem is not something that religion can solve. Religion is the problem." So at that point, I started reading Thomas Paine about religion. I'd read a lot of others who were against religion and then I started going deeply into studies of religion that prove that there wasn't even.... there was no Jesus. And all the miracles of the Old Testament were bullshit. And in fact now, even the Jews in their paper Haaretz out of Israel has said the same thing. And so that that was that was my conversion.

19:49:40 Shane Bugbee: So Tom did it did your conversion have anything to do with your reprinting of Might is Right?

19:49:45 Tom Metzger: Yes, it did. Because Might is Right went right along with... I started reading a lot of Jack London again, and I discovered how racial Jack London was and how "Might is Right" Jack London was. And so I visited his ranch and studied a lot about his background. Read what he had to say.

19:50:07 Shane Bugbee: Isn't that wolf house beautiful?

19:50:08 Tom Metzger: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

19:50:10 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's an amazing spot.

19:50:12 Tom Metzger: Sure is. So that's, so I developed or refound the idea of Might is Right and survival of the fittest, and I dumped a lot of stuff that was on my back that was meaningless. In fact, it was deteriorating, and to your, to your nature and your philosophy.

19:50:37 Shane Bugbee: Did you happen to see the LaVey introduction that he did for me, regarding Jack London?

19:50:44 You know, I think I did read that one time, but I don't remember exactly what was said.

19:50:48 How do you feel about that? He basically said he he believes that Jack London may have been the author of Might is Right.

19:50:56 Tom Metzger: Well, there's been a lot of people who said that, and I certainly don't know. And I hope it's true because I have this great respect for Jack London. But we've sold a lot of these books like Iron Heel and stuff like that.

19:51:14 Shane Bugbee: And those are Jack London books?

19:51:15 Tom Metzger: Yes. And so in fact, a friend of mine did a college doctorate on the study of Jack London. We sell that little, too. But I don't know whether that's true or not. Nobody seems to be sure.

19:51:31 Shane Bugbee: Did you read what Katja Lane had written in the book? She did the editor's note.

19:51:37 Tom Metzger: Well, she can write it, but I don't think anybody can prove it.

19:51:41 Shane Bugbee: Sure. I just wondered if you had read it.

19:51:44 Tom Metzger: You mean LaVey's statement?

19:51:46 Shane Bugbee: Well, no, the Might is Right edition I'd put out. I put out the one. LaVey wrote the introduction. Katja Lane wrote an editor's note in the back and George Eric Hawthorn, or George Burdi, as he's known today, wrote the afterword. And I'm wondering if you... Tom Metzger: You mean LaVey's statement?

19:51:46 Shane Bugbee: Well, no, the Might is Right edition I'd put out. I put out the one. LaVey wrote the introduction. Katja Lane wrote an editor's note in the back and George Eric Hawthorn, or George Burdi, as he's known today, wrote the afterword. And I'm wondering if you...

19:52:01 Tom Metzger: All I can say is I read the, the actual Might is Right religiously, almost like a Bible. And every few days, I read some of it. But I didn't pay too much attention to the forwards and so forth. So if I did, I don't remember all of what was said.

19:52:22 Shane Bugbee: Well, I'm sorry. I was...

19:52:24 Tom Metzger: I don't want to.. I hope I don't offend you. But that's alright, if I did read it I don't quite remember all it was said.

19:52:32 Shane Bugbee: You didn't offend me. I was just wondering, I guess basically, um, you know, what do you think I'm going to be talking to George Burdi, right after you. And I'm wondering, what do you think about that whole drama that happened with everything?

19:52:44 Well, George Burdi is plain and simple a traitor to his race. And if he had decided to leave the struggle, and let leave it honorably, I'd have no problem with him at all. But when anyone leaves this struggle, and becomes the enemy of the struggle, then they are the enemy. And so George Burdi, what he's done after he was great while he was going, in fact, when I was in jail in Toronto, he was out there, picketing for me and so forth like that, and that was great. But he decided to change sides, and now he's gonna have to lay in the bed he's made. I mean, I have no use for him, if that's what you mean.

19:53:30 Oh, no, that's not what I mean. I'm just wondering what your opinion is on him.

19:53:34 Tom Metzger: Well, he's a rat. That plain enough?

19:53:37 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's perfect. That's perfect. I mean, I don't know. You know, I was, I was a shocker to me, especially having put a lot of stock in him as far as I'm writing the afterword to the book.

19:53:49 Tom Metzger: Sure.

19:53:50 Shane Bugbee: And then, you know, I, you know...

19:53:53 Tom Metzger: Well, that's not a that's not unusual in any struggle. You have people who betray the struggle and the left have it, the race mixtures have it. You know, everybody's got those problems. If you have a movement, there's always gonna be people that fall by the wayside. I think the his problem was, he didn't think he could take that jail time. Jail time is not that bad, and jail time inCanada is easy. I did five days and so did my son in Toronto and hell, they give you a tea and crumpets up there and treat you like white men and their jail.

19:54:29 Amy Bugbee: Better than home probably.

19:54:30 Tom Metzger: Down here. They treat you like crap. You know?

19:54:34 Doug Misicko: You've got one, you got to be one of the most controversial characters alive today in the United States. What does this do for your lifestyle? What kind of precautions do you take? I imagine you get death threats.

19:54:44 Unknown: Well, you'd be surprised. I don't have a compound. I don't have attack dogs all over the place. And I don't have a bunch of guns in an armory. I walk around town. I know a lot of people. I've lived here 35 years, I talked a lot of people, a lot of'em are my friends, the ones that are not my friends have never seen fit to do anything about it. And so actually, my life is pretty easy. I think people think that because you're out in the open and say exactly what you think that you're going to be immediately shot or something. Well, I've had people try to shoot me, before, years ago. And I've had I'm trying to firebomb my house. And I've and I've had them try to do a lot of things. But in the last 10 years, I've had hardly any, had none really attacks. And I've been more radical in the last 10 years, than I was before. So I think a lot of people are told that "oh my goodness, all roofs gonna fall in if you're radical." I think you have to use common sense and be reasonable and be pleasant as possible to people. I don't think you should go around with a chip on your shoulder, looking for a fight. Some people, no matter what they're thinking, they're going to get into trouble because they don't know when to keep their mouth shut.

19:56:02 Doug Misicko: So if I started calling you a cocksucker, I wouldn't necessarily get my head stomped in by white laced boots the next day.

19:56:09 Tom Metzger: I think if you call me that to my face, you might have a little problem. [laughter] Nobody's done that for a long time that I can remember. And I think last one I did was Herb Rubin and he's dead.

19:56:26 Unknown: [laughter]

19:56:26 Shane Bugbee: Damn you take care of business, Tommy.

19:56:29 Tom Metzger: Well, he committed suicide. I guess he couldn't handle it.

19:56:33 Doug Misicko: Couldn't handle the guilt?

19:56:34 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, I guess not. He took a dive off the second tier of LA, at the Federal jail. Some of my friends have told me he had a little assistance, but I don't know for a fact.

19:56:45 You've got a lot of supporters, huh?

19:56:46 You see, I thought that's what George Bertie was doing. He's the spy on the inside. You've got a lot of supporters, huh?

19:56:46 I think so. We operate a voluntary association and we call a lot of our people, "lone wolves". They don't go to meetings, they don't... They don't blab about who they are and what they think and all that kind of stuff. They're just sort of blended into society. And they're out there. And we've got, I'm sure we have a lot of em, even though at any particular moment, it's not very easy to count noses. And we have recommended people, young people get careers and, you know, military and the police and finance and go to college and and dig in and be our spy on the inside. And we say your going to be very important in the future as things heat up in this country. You see, I thought that's what George Bertie was doing. He's the spy on the inside. You've got a lot of supporters, huh?

19:56:46 You see, I thought that's what George Bertie was doing. He's the spy on the inside. I think so. We operate a voluntary association and we call a lot of our people, "lone wolves". They don't go to meetings, they don't... They don't blab about who they are and what they think and all that kind of stuff. They're just sort of blended into society. And they're out there. And we've got, I'm sure we have a lot of em, even though at any particular moment, it's not very easy to count noses. And we have recommended people, young people get careers and, you know, military and the police and finance and go to college and and dig in and be our spy on the inside. And we say your going to be very important in the future as things heat up in this country.

19:57:30 I think so. We operate a voluntary association and we call a lot of our people, "lone wolves". They don't go to meetings, they don't... They don't blab about who they are and what they think and all that kind of stuff. They're just sort of blended into society. And they're out there. And we've got, I'm sure we have a lot of em, even though at any particular moment, it's not very easy to count noses. And we have recommended people, young people get careers and, you know, military and the police and finance and go to college and and dig in and be our spy on the inside. And we say your going to be very important in the future as things heat up in this country.

19:57:40 Tom Metzger: Well, there have been guys who've played that double game and, and that's good. And, and if he was okay, playing, if he is playing that game, and I call him a rat, they're gonna love him even more. But I don't I sort of don't think that that's the deal with George.

19:57:59 Shane Bugbee: Tom, later on tonight, I'm gonna have the high priest of the Church of Satan and I'm gonna bet he's gonna make a comment about you maybe. So I'm wondering if you had any comments for him or his group or anything like that.

19:58:12 Tom Metzger: To be perfectly honest. Since I don't believe in Jesus or God, I have trouble believing in Satan too. Because it's sort of a Christian creation is Satan thing is scared kids all and all this kind of stuff. I believe in this idea of that we should worship the earth and and we should love nature and all that and that's pretty much into Might is Right. Shane Bugbee: Tom, later on tonight, I'm gonna have the high priest of the Church of Satan and I'm gonna bet he's gonna make a comment about you maybe. So I'm wondering if you had any comments for him or his group or anything like that.

19:58:12 Tom Metzger: To be perfectly honest. Since I don't believe in Jesus or God, I have trouble believing in Satan too. Because it's sort of a Christian creation is Satan thing is scared kids all and all this kind of stuff. I believe in this idea of that we should worship the earth and and we should love nature and all that and that's pretty much into Might is Right.

19:58:17 Shane Bugbee: Have you read the Satanic Bible? Tom Metzger: To be perfectly honest. Since I don't believe in Jesus or God, I have trouble believing in Satan too. Because it's sort of a Christian creation is Satan thing is scared kids all and all this kind of stuff. I believe in this idea of that we should worship the earth and and we should love nature and all that and that's pretty much into Might is Right.

19:58:24 Tom Metzger: To be perfectly honest. Since I don't believe in Jesus or God, I have trouble believing in Satan too. Because it's sort of a Christian creation is Satan thing is scared kids all and all this kind of stuff. I believe in this idea of that we should worship the earth and and we should love nature and all that and that's pretty much into Might is Right.

19:58:26 Tom Metzger: I believe I have. But it's been so long that I don't remember much of it. Maybe I'll read it again. Tom Metzger: To be perfectly honest. Since I don't believe in Jesus or God, I have trouble believing in Satan too. Because it's sort of a Christian creation is Satan thing is scared kids all and all this kind of stuff. I believe in this idea of that we should worship the earth and and we should love nature and all that and that's pretty much into Might is Right.

19:58:37 Tom Metzger: I believe I have. But it's been so long that I don't remember much of it. Maybe I'll read it again.

19:58:47 Shane Bugbee: A good chunk of that is Might is Right.

19:58:50 Tom Metzger: Well, let's see, I take things what I can get out of them, you know, and if that part of the book is Might is Right I'll say, "hey, that's right on".

19:58:58 Shane Bugbee: Yeah. Satanists. They don't run around worshipping Satan.

19:59:01 Tom Metzger: Well, that's good because...

19:59:03 Shane Bugbee: They just believe in themselves that's about it.

19:59:04 Unknown: ... and fear of darkness and all that the Ying and the Yang and stuff and the Christians have used Satan to really milk the situation and I really couldn't be into the Satan thing because I you know, that's really the Christians have pretty much promoted and push Satan to scare people. And I don't I just don't believe in "spooks in the sky" as Ben Klassen used to say. Shane Bugbee: They just believe in themselves that's about it.

19:59:04 Unknown: ... and fear of darkness and all that the Ying and the Yang and stuff and the Christians have used Satan to really milk the situation and I really couldn't be into the Satan thing because I you know, that's really the Christians have pretty much promoted and push Satan to scare people. And I don't I just don't believe in "spooks in the sky" as Ben Klassen used to say.

19:59:20 Tom Metzger: I agree. I think a lot of what Christian... Christianity is the one who's created this devil worship. Unknown: ... and fear of darkness and all that the Ying and the Yang and stuff and the Christians have used Satan to really milk the situation and I really couldn't be into the Satan thing because I you know, that's really the Christians have pretty much promoted and push Satan to scare people. And I don't I just don't believe in "spooks in the sky" as Ben Klassen used to say.

19:59:35 Tom Metzger: I agree. I think a lot of what Christian... Christianity is the one who's created this devil worship.

19:59:42 Yeah.

19:59:42 Amy Bugbee: You know, if you read the Satanic Bible, it's really more about humanism. Just exactly, I mean, parts of it are word for word out of Might is Right. Anton LaVey never believed in the devil or anything just in the power of his own mind and nature and you know, taking care of animals and people that are good.

Hour 21

20:00:00 Tom Metzger: I never met LaVey but I met his daughter. She'd been a guest in my home before.

20:00:05 Shane Bugbee: I'm sorry to hear that. Which one?

20:00:08 Tom Metzger: What see what do you remember their first name?

20:00:12 Shane Bugbee: Either either one of them their their dogs, their dogs? Their trators too.

20:00:15 Shane Bugbee: You want to talk about traders ,that you're talking about a whole [unintelligable] traders sitting on your couch. Shane Bugbee: Either either one of them their their dogs, their dogs? Their trators too.

20:00:15 Tom Metzger: Well, she was going with Schreck, um Nikolas Schreck. Shane Bugbee: You want to talk about traders ,that you're talking about a whole [unintelligable] traders sitting on your couch. Shane Bugbee: Either either one of them their their dogs, their dogs? Their trators too.

20:00:15 Shane Bugbee: You want to talk about traders ,that you're talking about a whole [unintelligable] traders sitting on your couch. Tom Metzger: Well, she was going with Schreck, um Nikolas Schreck.

20:00:18 Shane Bugbee: You want to talk about traders ,that you're talking about a whole [unintelligable] traders sitting on your couch.

20:00:22 Tom Metzger: Heard all about that later, and I didn't have... This was early on, when people didn't know all that stuff. They hadn't done all this betraying.

20:00:29 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well, there's their lowest of the low, man.

20:00:31 Tom Metzger: This is way back way back. And they came down to see me and I had Nikolas Schreck on the TV show. But then, of course, later, I found out he was Jewish. And that was an interesting.

20:00:42 Shane Bugbee: Isn't that funny? He's a real funny, guys. They should have clown makeup on that guy.

20:00:46 Tom Metzger: Yeah, so anyhow, no, I obviously I heard later about their crazy stuff. And... Shane Bugbee: Isn't that funny? He's a real funny, guys. They should have clown makeup on that guy.

20:00:46 Tom Metzger: Yeah, so anyhow, no, I obviously I heard later about their crazy stuff. And...

20:00:55 Doug Misicko: You're getting it you're getting it confused. You're getting Church and Satan confused with hacks like Nikolas Schreck when you're talking about devil worship. They're the idiots who take up what, what the Christians created and run around worshipping a horned guy with a tail and everything else.

20:01:11 Tom Metzger: How you guys feel about the CotC What's that? Church of the Creator?

20:01:18 Shane Bugbee: How do I feel about it?

20:01:19 Tom Metzger: I mean, the white man's Bible like that.

20:01:21 Shane Bugbee: How do I feel about it?

20:01:22 Tom Metzger: Yeah,

20:01:23 Shane Bugbee: I feel like I don't want to say anything because I might get beat up.

20:01:27 Tom Metzger: Well, I don't... You shouldn't have to feel beat up for free speech. I mean...

20:01:32 Shane Bugbee: I'm just teasing Tommy, I, I have... I think it's a silly thing, myself.

20:01:38 Tom Metzger: You do?

20:01:38 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

20:01:39 Tom Metzger: Well, why I don't understand it's racial. And it's...

20:01:42 Shane Bugbee: Isn't based with Christianity?

20:01:45 Tom Metzger: No, no, it's not Christian at all. The CotC is totally anti-christian. The Church of the Creator, if you read white man's Bible, there's nothing pro-Christian in that book.

20:01:57 Shane Bugbee: Well, I was under the impression that it was a Christian...

20:02:00 Tom Metzger: Oh, no, no, no, no Ben Klassen and was totally...

20:02:02 Shane Bugbee: Am I thinking of a different white white supremacist group? They...

20:02:07 Amy Bugbee: The KKK?

20:02:07 Shane Bugbee: Na, the Christian...na, man.

20:02:10 Tom Metzger: Well, I don't know which one you're thinking about. But the Church of the Creator was totally anti-christian. And it's similar to Might is Right what they wrote, you know?

20:02:23 Doug Misicko: Well, I tend to feel that racialism can be too general, at times. I think there should be eugenics policy, population control policy, something that ensures quality reproduction. But on racial grounds, I really don't see it because you got to admit you meet some black people are smarter than a lot of white people you met and vice versa. And all the rest. And if through the top notch, were the ones breeding, carrying on, that would be the best way to go.

20:02:54 Tom Metzger: Yeah, there are gray areas, there's overlap. But on the other hand, I'm, you see, you might see a white crow sometime too. But most crows are black. I mean, if you judge the black race by it, by its whole, you got you must come up with the idea that the def- definitely an inferior race. Doug Misicko: Well, I tend to feel that racialism can be too general, at times. I think there should be eugenics policy, population control policy, something that ensures quality reproduction. But on racial grounds, I really don't see it because you got to admit you meet some black people are smarter than a lot of white people you met and vice versa. And all the rest. And if through the top notch, were the ones breeding, carrying on, that would be the best way to go.

20:02:54 Tom Metzger: Yeah, there are gray areas, there's overlap. But on the other hand, I'm, you see, you might see a white crow sometime too. But most crows are black. I mean, if you judge the black race by it, by its whole, you got you must come up with the idea that the def- definitely an inferior race.

20:03:13 Doug Misicko: Well, if that was being the case...

20:03:15 Tom Metzger: Your saying that there's mixed race, blacks mulattos that are sharp and smart. Once in a while there's a jet black Negro, that's very smart. Sure there is. And there's a lot of stupid whites. Doug Misicko: Well, if that was being the case...

20:03:15 Tom Metzger: Your saying that there's mixed race, blacks mulattos that are sharp and smart. Once in a while there's a jet black Negro, that's very smart. Sure there is. And there's a lot of stupid whites.

20:03:26 Doug Misicko: But that being the case, you still wouldn't have to enact racial laws, you just have to enact intelligence laws. And if that was being the case, then that good segment of the population would have to drop off, you could still do it on an equal level around the board.

20:03:41 Tom Metzger: Well, we'll leave you the project of raising the IQ of the black race till about 140. And I'll be standing by when you're successful.

20:03:51 Amy Bugbee: It's going to be quite a task. I think.

20:03:54 Tom Metzger: That's gonna keep you busy for a long time.

20:03:56 Doug Misicko: I don't think the average white IQ is anywhere near 140.

20:04:01 Tom Metzger: That's true, but on the par, they're higher than blacks by probably 20 points. Most of the Third Reich, people, including Hitler, they were all above 120. And most of them are about 140.

20:04:18 Doug Misicko: They actually took IQ tests?

20:04:20 Tom Metzger: Yes, they did while they were in Nuremberg prison, awaiting trial. And the lowest IQ in the whole bunch was Julius Streicher. And he was 120. So I think if you do a, you know, an IQ test in Europe, among the educated whites, and then try to compare it to blacks going to any university in the world, you're going to see a difference. Already, they've already done that to where they have upscale blacks going to the schools down in Maryland. And they were doing worse than a white kid is doing an Appalachia. So no, don't ever forget race is a very important thing. Doug Misicko: They actually took IQ tests?

20:04:20 Tom Metzger: Yes, they did while they were in Nuremberg prison, awaiting trial. And the lowest IQ in the whole bunch was Julius Streicher. And he was 120. So I think if you do a, you know, an IQ test in Europe, among the educated whites, and then try to compare it to blacks going to any university in the world, you're going to see a difference. Already, they've already done that to where they have upscale blacks going to the schools down in Maryland. And they were doing worse than a white kid is doing an Appalachia. So no, don't ever forget race is a very important thing.

20:05:01 Absolutely, I know my sister always says how blacks have only been civilized for a few 100 years there, they're never going to catch up. You know, my, I'm never gonna be older than my older sister. So...

20:05:15 I've heard that. Some estimates are that they are supposedly around 250,000 years behind, as a race. And of course, I'm not convinced we even come from the same source. I have, I have a very hard time believing that.

20:05:34 I agree with you. I think that there's different species of humans or human related beings. I don't think that we're necessarily the same species as Blacks or Asians, you know, or any number of other races.

20:05:52 If you'll read the works of Carlton Kuhn, he pretty much brings forth the idea of separate development of the races in different areas of the world. Not all in Africa. We may have come from another planet for all I know,

20:06:10 I'm with you there.

20:06:13 The book about the pyramids and the... Oh, what's that neb-, star bunch out there, I forget the name of it. But anyhow, that lines up with the pyramids as as a geometric thing and all this kind of stuff. That's quite interesting. They've talked about it on television documentaries or books out on it and so forth. So, you know, but you don't talk about it too much because everybody started saying you're nuts, you know.

20:06:45 Amy Bugbee: Exactly.

20:06:47 Shane Bugbee: One more question, Tom, Amy's got for you.

20:06:49 Tom Metzger: In the Radio Free Satan chat room, someone had said that by profession, you're a TV repair man?

20:06:57 Yeah, I ran a small business here in Fallbrook, California for 30 years or so. It's a small business selling television and satellite equipment and TV repair and so forth like that. Before that I worked for Douglas Aircraft in Santa Monica. I worked on the space shots, a second stage of a moon shot and a lot of stuff like that. And the military, I was involved in a lot of pretty technical electronics things in United States and Europe. So I've had quite a background in electronics.

20:07:31 Well, I have started my own religion, at some point, the TV ministry and we believe that TV is the modern deity, because everyone worships TV no matter how rich or poor. Almost everyone on Earth has a television.

20:07:48 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well, that television if they ever dig up this civilization, they're gonna think that TV was the religious icon.

20:07:55 Tom Metzger: Absolutely. We adorn it...

20:07:57 In every room. Even in cars and toilets.

20:08:00 Exactly. It's like a shrine. It's the modern shrine. Yeah, I guess based on my own religion. You being a TV repairman would make you like the Pope.

20:08:12 Well, so... Well, either that I'm in the group that keeps it going.

20:08:16 Shane Bugbee: Cardnal.

20:08:17 Tom Metzger: We got to keep the shrine lit up.

20:08:19 Shane Bugbee: You're at least a Cardnal.

20:08:22 Amy Bugbee: Thank you.

20:08:23 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Tommy.

20:08:24 Tom Metzger: Okay.

20:08:25 Shane Bugbee: We got to... resist.com right?

20:08:27 Tom Metzger: Yeah, resist.com and if it's not there tonight, it'll be back up there pretty quick. We had some pretty bad hits by hackers last week and it went down, but we're getting it back up. We'll be back up there, so it's good talking to you guys.

20:08:41 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, man you sell and you sell Might is Right there, right?

20:08:43 Tom Metzger: Yeah, I do.

20:08:44 Shane Bugbee: Good. I'm hoping to trade a copy of... I got the leather bound here, I'd like to trade you a copy for that spiral bound.

20:08:50 Tom Metzger: You know what I may do one of these days sit down I've been I've thought about it for a long time to write a foreword myself to this, Might is Right.

20:08:59 Shane Bugbee: You should, man.

20:09:00 Tom Metzger: ...but right now, this is simply a the coil type publication where you can lay it out flat and read it. That's what I like.

20:09:10 Shane Bugbee: I like his idea, he doesn't like the paperbacks he puts his books in a coil.

20:09:13 Tom Metzger: And I just put the main...

20:09:15 Shane Bugbee: ...so you can read 'em.

20:09:16 Tom Metzger: ...in there. I don't copy anything that's been copyrighted, that other people have put in.

20:09:21 Doug Misicko: I'll personalize you a copy, Tom. Thank you very much for talking with us.

20:09:25 Tom Metzger: I appreciate it. You take care of now.

20:09:27 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, take it easy, man.

20:09:28 Amy Bugbee: Thank you.

20:09:28 Tom Metzger: Thank you.

20:09:30 Amy Bugbee: Bye.

20:09:30 Tom Metzger: Bye.

20:09:52 Pre-record (fem): Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of radio for Satan or Mephisto media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know and some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot, and we refuse to be held responsible for your stupidity. Insert don't try this at home or at all.

20:10:34 Pre-record (masc): Stupid people have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals. Preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, always females some sort of intrauterine device insists they were it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are.

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20:11:49 Shane Bugbee: Evilnow.com your home for hate.

20:13:39 Pre-record (fem): Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of radio for Satan or Mephisto media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know. And some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot, and we refuse to be responsible for your stupidity. In short. Don't try this at home or at all.

20:14:20 Canned Audio: ...these effects. Stupid people have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals, preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, always females some sort of intrauterine device insists they were it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are Pre-record (fem): Some of the opinions and topics expressed on this program may be objectionable to some people. The opinions expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the individuals who express them. They are not necessarily the opinions of any member of radio for Satan or Mephisto media. Some of them are the opinions of people we don't even know. And some of them are the opinions of people that we just made up. If you're offended by something on this program, please just don't listen. If you're tempted by what you hear on this program to do something potentially dangerous or illegal, you are an idiot, and we refuse to be responsible for your stupidity. In short. Don't try this at home or at all.

20:14:20 Canned Audio: ...these effects. Stupid people have stupid children. If you're stupid, please don't have sex. If you insist on having sex, then please have sex with animals, preferably animals smarter than you are. That way if by some biological fluke, you and the animal actually have offspring, odds are the offspring will be less stupid than you are. One more thing. Don't assume the animal is protected. If the animal has a condom, always females some sort of intrauterine device insists they were it. Please help stamp out this mindless mindlessness. Keep your stupidity to yourself. This message brought to you by the Council of concerned citizens who are smarter than you are

20:15:02 attention evil listeners. I am Dr. Milo t picotin, the third founder and leader of the consortium of genius, a group best known as the cog. What are you doing over here introduce yourself? Oh wait a minute. I know where this is going. My name is Dr. A pennant panic alcoholic My name is Dr. [RacistRamblings] Raman. Otherwise known you are listening to Radio Free satan.com. Silence

20:15:59 Pre-record (fem): pro digital media is the most appealing

20:16:11 Canned Audio: Okay, Radio Free Satan promo. Here we go. This is about as close to being spoon fed Satanism as you're going to getyou are listening to the funky, funky sound. Radio presepe danio Hello, this is David Harris and you are listening to Radio Free save the uncomfortable. This is Reverend paradise method straight from hell. If you play this message backwards, it sounds like you're listening to Radio Free safe. Honest.

20:16:55 Shane Bugbee: Okay, a couple problems there. and fix them. I think. Amy How are you?

20:17:02 Amy Bugbee: I'm good. Hopefully, we're broadcasting again.

20:17:05 Shane Bugbee: We have a guest. George. Are you there?

20:17:09 George Burdi: I am Shane, how you doing? Good.

20:17:11 Shane Bugbee: George birdie. Hey, it's been a long time. George Burdi: I am Shane, how you doing? Good.

20:17:11 Shane Bugbee: George birdie. Hey, it's been a long time.

20:17:17 George Burdi: Been several years.

20:17:18 Shane Bugbee: Well, yeah. So you're such a shocking change? What happened?

20:17:28 George Burdi: Well, I mean, I think the most important thing to start from to answer that question is to get your perception of what what a change is. Because I mean, there's a lot of people that that will assume that everything I've ever thought in my entire life that I just threw it overboard. My story to just quickly, you know, cover it for those who don't know anything about me. You know, I was I was the lead singer of the band ruhollah. Some of you may have been listening earlier when you heard some of my speeches that I'd given back in the days when I was a supporter of the white power movement and quite active as a white separatist activist. And what ended up happening was 1997. I, after a long string of experiences that really frustrated me with the movement, I used a brief stint in jail of four months, which was a breeze like Tom Metzger described was it was nothing the jail was like a breath. It was a holiday for me compared to what I was living like on the outside. And, but I use that as a good kind of springboard to get out of the movement and kind of move on With my life because I was just at a stage of total burnout. And just really set up with what I view is a lot of foolishness by by people I was calling comrade. So, at the end of it, I just just got tired of a one to just to depend on myself.

20:18:52 Shane Bugbee: You asked me, George in the beginning what I consider a change, and you were in jail for four months for charging and buton some girl that was protesting against you, right?

20:19:04 George Burdi: I was in jail for for four months for a betting that that offense. Yes. They said that words i'd spoken on in moments earlier had robbed my group up. And then I was the first person running across the street and therefore I was like precariously responsible for what somebody else did.

20:19:23 Shane Bugbee: You feel sorry for what happened?

20:19:26 George Burdi: Sorry, what happened to the girl?

20:19:28 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

20:19:29 George Burdi: Yeah, you know, I do I feel so I feel sorry for all the all the people that got hurt that night, people on both sides, you know, a whole lot of nonsense actually going on. People people's attitudes, getting completely out of hand, I saw somebody pick up pick up big rock in the face. And that didn't look too healthy. It mean, the whole situation was a mess. It was complete chaos. I mean, our entire everybody that attended our concert, when we got back to the venue, afterwards, feeling like all our tires slashed when seal field smashed in. We were the victims ourselves of, of the terrorism of the last six 700 people showing up sometimes to protest our shows. So I mean, in the context of everything that happened that night, you know, the whole thing was that it was a complete, chaotic disaster. And, you know, I paid heavily for it for years to come, in many ways. So.

20:20:25 Shane Bugbee: So, boy, you were I think, you know, you, you are a very different person. No, no, you're not you still believe in the philosophy of Might is Right?

20:20:38 George Burdi: Well, I mean, I see the philosophy as having it's having its place at a stage in my life, and therefore wouldn't, wouldn't want to deny that privilege to another person. I mean, I think that some people can benefit greatly from reading the book, and has a lot of ideas that can act as a sort of a catalyst to, you know, free off free the individual from a lot of the dogmas of our society, that that I think can can have the effect of holding people back. So there's a lot of good that can be extracted from the book, and I can still see that now.

20:21:13 Shane Bugbee: Have the guys in your band heard any of your old stuff, like the first RAHOWA album?

20:21:19 George Burdi: I don't really play the first album to them. And we really don't talk about the subject a lot. Like, you know, people really imagine this as kind of like a politicized band, because, you know, being that the band is multiracial. And, and I have this past that they imagine that right away that we must sit around talking about race, but you know what the truth is, and anybody that knows people from different races can can attest to this fact that once you know somebody while you stop looking at them as their race, I mean, if they're a friend, and you liked them, and they're a good person, you share a lot of common interests, and you share ways of looking at life, you know, you just start seeing them as an individual. And it's really, really refreshing for me, instead of having to always force all of my friendships that I had, and all the musicians I worked with, had to first and foremost be into the mindset of white power in the past. And so, you know, I was selecting people based upon their biological characteristics rather than what they had as individuals and what type of character they had. So when I finally when I got out of the movement and left those, I threw those ideas off behind like a snake that shattered skin, I felt like Suddenly, I could now select my company based on their merit as individuals. And that, to me felt a lot more true.

20:22:31 Doug Misicko: So basically, you made some multicultural friends, and that's what,

20:22:34 George Burdi: Yes, but it's not about being multicultural, like, I don't sit around and now and think about how I can enrich my life by learning about other places or, you know, I mean, I want to learn about other I want to learn about other places for other reasons, not because I think there's something wrong with my whiteness or something wrong with my own identity, because, you know, I still enjoy and appreciate, you know, learning about, about our, you know, our Celtic ancestors or Norse ancestors. And I still appreciate those aspects of my European background. It's just that I just don't need to stop there. I think that the human experience requires us to really try to learn as much as we can from as many perspectives as we can. And I'm not afraid of ideas I don't need to like defend my own my own ideology from from all possible individuals could disagree with me. I mean, I don't care if somebody doesn't, you know, view things my way. That's okay. I'm flexible, though. I don't have the this rigidity that required things to always If you wonder that's the beginning of fanaticism.

20:23:41 Amy Bugbee: When we met you some years ago in Canada, Jared, you seemed really certain in what you were doing. I'm wondering, what was the straw that broke the camel's back? What was it that made you walk away from that life?

20:23:56 Doug Misicko: Interracial sex and prison.

20:23:57 George Burdi: And we were at the concert in London, Ontario. Was that the show, you came to?

20:24:02 Shane Bugbee: And the cops stormed the...

20:24:03 George Burdi: The show where my girlfriend got attacked.

20:24:05 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

20:24:06 George Burdi: Okay, you need you need to ask any more questions about that Amy?

20:24:10 Shane Bugbee: I was shitfaced at that concert.

20:24:13 George Burdi: Those people that don't don't you Didn't you feel a vibe from them that was just completely negative and destructive, that nothing good could be built out of that type of negativity.

20:24:20 Shane Bugbee: I was more afraid that concert than I was sometimes going through the ghettos of Chicago man.

20:24:25 George Burdi: You know, I mean, listen, those guys, they some have had tough lives. You know, and I don't, I don't want to view them as enemies, I don't want to try to alienate them. I mean, they can have their own attitudes and opinions about who I am. And they're entitled to think what they want. But, you know, I don't want to run around and try to like, you know, I don't want to slam these guys, because I used to walk in their shoes. And I can't take the attitude like, you know, it's wrong now, because I'm at a different stage in my life, and I'm going to point the finger at somebody else. I mean, everyone's entitled to view what they want to view the life the way they want to, I just, myself wanted to wanted to break free from, from a movement that was like this, blood and soil fanaticism, that was like, ultimately was like a rejection of the values that are very important to me of personality and freedom. Instead, I was like, bound to my tribe, in the future, and destiny of my tribe, was my future, my destiny? Well, you know, I don't need to live inside biological confines of identity. My, my spirit can live much in much bigger places than in the flesh, and there's a much greater world beyond the world of what we see. And when we stop it contaminating our MindScape continuously with ideology, and allow our mind to have some emptiness and some freedom, some peace in that calmness, you've come to perceive things that liberate you, from those old attitudes in liberate you from ignorance.

20:26:06 Amy Bugbee: Well, I guess I kind of saw you, as a reformer of the white power movement. And I, I just wondered, was that concert part of what made you change your mind about, I guess, the ability to reform the movement or to put more...

20:26:23 George Burdi: I felt like, I felt like it was a nonstop string of disappointments and frustrations. I mean, you know, you saw me play it that show, the part you don't see is when is when the hall was being booked, and it was myself, trying to work on booking it, when insurance has to be planned or stage crews have to be planned. And I had to do that, too. When I had to unload the truck, when I had to set the shot and you know, the all the gear up with everybody, with with the crew on the only other guy chipping in and then at the end of it all, you know, you get disrespected, you get you get, you know, because what do you expect from a group that is that is fundamentally hate oriented? And, and, you know, for all of the other components of the white power movement, because there are components that are not about hate, but hate is contaminated. And what do you what else could I expect from such a collection of people and and it's not just that concert, but it's just like a non stop stream of things like that, that happened that, you know, you continuously endured when you were in the movement and, and there's a lot of good people in that movement, who who see the stuff that that's, that's done, and they have to look at each other, and they kind of shrug their shoulders, kind of like, you know, kind of like a black with some, some class and character would shrug your shoulders looking at some of the ghetto blacks and the way they behave. There's like this attitude that like, you know, skinheads can behave a certain way. And well, what do you expect the skinheads that's the kind of attitude inside the movement, it's like this, this kind of blind, you know, apologizing for the behavior of a people that when the whole ideology is built around the apparent nobility of the race, and then the behavior so so ignoble.

20:28:09 Amy Bugbee: I guess, I can understand that it. I know Shane, and I've done events where it's the two of us doing everything to it's the, you know, the little red hen syndrome. Everybody wants to enjoy the spoils of what you're doing, but nobody wants to put in the time. I think it goes beyond you know, any race to just laziness in society today, especially in America.

20:28:33 George Burdi: Right if anybody in the movement should see is that clearly clearly, appealing to the population at large the population of white people across America, trying to appeal to those people with an ideology, trying to teach them an idea saying here, buy into this idea. And then the world is going to be different, is never the way it's worked in history. It's not about trying to sell people ideas. History has its own ebb and flow. Things happen spontaneously. They don't need to be forced, when When, when, when the world is ready for something, it happens on its own. There's no, there's no effort barely required. It's kind of has like its own momentum.

20:29:21 Doug Misicko: Now, granted, I

20:29:22 George Burdi: anybody caught up in a revolution will tell you that it's like stuff happens so fast. It's like events just propel themselves forward. And we're more just like passive participants, and

20:29:34 Doug Misicko: I never met you and i don't disagree with anything you're saying. But nothing's really more pathetic to me than an "ex" group identifier. And I'm not saying that's what you are, I hope it's what you aren't, I hope you don't go around saying that you're this ex-white supremacist, and...

20:29:49 George Burdi: I don't give speeches. I don't go do touring speeches, I know, I've done a couple of private engagements, the people who I believe are very forward thinking and their attitudes, they're not, you know, out to, to promote the same sort of ignorance that the movement was promoting, but just do it with a different with a different stripe, you know, because there's a lot of people, the anti racist movements out there that are that are just as messed up as the people they, you know, trying to fight. You know, ignorance comes in all forms. And, you know, you guys are probably quite familiar with aspects of the satanist movement being, you know, idiotic, and other aspects being more inspiring to you. But, you know, for whatever motivated individual. My attitude now is that I don't want to define myself by you know, being somebody that that has had this past. And therefore, my present is defined by my past, and I'm just reliving my past all the time, and always talking about what I used to think and what I used to do, and you know, I have a very real life, that's, that's happening now, to me as a 33 year old. Doesn't, have their not in the spotlight, that's like a normal person's life, where we're maturing, and I'm learning more about life. And, and I know, I've got a lot to learn still to totally understand my life. And I totally understand what life is all about. And as we all do, but, you know, I don't regret anything that I've done. You know, my life is what it is. There's no point in regrets because I can't change the past. I say I said, things I think are foolish when I when I look back now, and here's some of the things I said. But there's other things I said, where I understand why I was upset. And, you know, I don't look at the world through rose colored glasses nowadays, you know, I still see things that are wrong with the world. I just recognize that, you know, over time, I've seen more shades of gray. And as a result, I you know, I feel just that I'm being honest with people to just say, you know, this is what I think and this is, this is what I used to think and you know, some people obviously are going to feel let down some people that used to, used to call me comrade and obviously feel disappointed, you know, and did feel disappointed, maybe when they first heard about me having left the movement. But I mean, the ultimate truth is for me that I just had to say what I felt, and I just could no longer agree with it.

20:32:19 Doug Misicko: So you still respect your development?

20:32:22 George Burdi: What's that?

20:32:23 Doug Misicko: You still respect where you came from?

20:32:25 George Burdi: I respect Yes, I respect my roots. And I and I understand them too. You know, I'm not I'm not harsh. When I judge it. Like it, let's face it. And this is what I say to people today, where I live in a city of Toronto here where, you know, the population was 90%, white when I was growing up, and it's No, no, like 55% non white. How can we have a change occur? That's that dramatic and not have some people get a little freaked out?

20:32:53 Amy Bugbee: True enough...

20:32:54 George Burdi: You know, do we expect everybody just to accept it without an argument? It is not part of the democratic process for people that have the ability and the right to say what they feel about that happening? People are entitled to do that. And but I got caught up in a whole bunch of other issues and a whole bunch of other currents that were already strong before I was even born. And those are the issues of world war two and, you know, 19 1987 1988 when I was getting involved in becoming a skin and whatnot. You know, I mean, back in those days was we was just the aftermath of World War 2.

20:33:39 Doug Misicko: So what about Judaism is an insidious sinister international cabal?

20:33:45 George Burdi: Okay, well, you know, we you know, the movement talks about that as if there's like one only one type of Jew. Yeah, there's there's Jews who aren't who are not. who, you know, don't agree in things that other Jews do. There's, there's left wing Jews, there's right wing Jews, there's atheist Jews, there's religious Jews, you know, I go on and on, you know all about it. I mean, there's people from all different stripes are there satanist Jews. I'm sure there's, you know, there's been white power skinheads who are Jews. I mean, the whole concept of asking that this this word Jew, it's like they say, in the movement, they elevate the words like the status of like a Boogeyman. It's like every everywhere you look, you expect us to find a Jew there.

20:34:30 Doug Misicko: I agree with that.

20:34:31 George Burdi: It's paranoia.

20:34:33 Doug Misicko: That's what I was basically saying the Metzger. But I was just seeing you were talking merely the racial aspects of your conversion. And I was thinking, more political movement in what you still agree with and what you disagree with...

20:34:47 George Burdi: Well, anybody that thinks that Jews have like some, like, total homogeneous voice, just has to like, get online and go read some Israeli newspapers, you'll hear every perspective argued, in a public forum.

20:35:00 Doug Misicko: Well, Noam Chomsky came from a Jewish background.

20:35:03 George Burdi: There ya go.

20:35:05 Doug Misicko: And he's an Israeli dissenter of the first class.

20:35:09 George Burdi: And many of them. Listen, I have private friends who are Jews who are, who are fantastic individuals who are solid people. And, you know, their attitude is not always in agreement with things that they see being done. And, and you know, I have some Jewish friends who like getting together with me, because they can pitch a boat to the whole time. I mean, listen, no matter what race you are, you, the thing is probably going to get you. You're probably going to get sick of your own kind first, because what you're going to be familiar with fast. And, you know, let's face it, there's a lot of misanthropy out there.

20:35:48 Amy Bugbee: Exactly. Well, I mean, even in doing this broadcast today, we've had people who are supposedly satanist saying horrible things about things that we're saying. You know, in any kind of group, there's so much infighting, especially a small group that's really just starting out, much like the white power movement that you are a part of Satanism is a lot the same way. There's a lot of morons, there's a lot of people who are just a part of it to be a part of something. They feel as dangerous or shacking.

20:36:23 Doug Misicko: Larger anything grows, the harder it is to maintain a unified front.

20:36:29 Amy Bugbee: So now, when we saw you in Canada, you were engaged to David and catch Elaine's daughter was part of your change in beliefs is, is that what ended your relationship? Or was it just the natural?

20:36:44 George Burdi: No, no, no. No, no, we it was more of was a short, shorter term relationship. It wasn't a relationship that was like long or wasn't like we were deeply in love. You know, we met each other. And we had by probably by the time that you guys had come up, I don't know if we were still getting along very well. So it had nothing to do at all with my leaving the movement was, you know, decision that she made that to head home while I was in when I was in jail, in Ottawa back in 97. Didn't she introduce you to the movement? No. It was I was already running resistance records. And her mother knew of me and introduced me to her

20:37:30 Shane Bugbee: resistance records, right? That's correct. Now, why did you sell it to the folks who are running it now? Because it's so flourishing.

20:37:40 George Burdi: I actually just washed my hands of it and walked away from it.

20:37:44 Shane Bugbee: So you're cool with them putting out your whole CDs like crazy.

20:37:49 George Burdi: I don't even I don't even pay any attention to I don't know what they do with it. I mean, I've heard that that sold a lot of copies by this point, but I don't really pay any attention to the subject. I mean, that's

20:37:59 Shane Bugbee: It's like a surprising thing. That's like your legacy, not one of your legacies from that part of time. And I'm surprised that you've let them have that. I almost, you know, crazy man got a little conspiracy in me. I think, "I wonder if George is working on the inside now." George Burdi: I don't even I don't even pay any attention to I don't know what they do with it. I mean, I've heard that that sold a lot of copies by this point, but I don't really pay any attention to the subject. I mean, that's

20:37:59 Shane Bugbee: It's like a surprising thing. That's like your legacy, not one of your legacies from that part of time. And I'm surprised that you've let them have that. I almost, you know, crazy man got a little conspiracy in me. I think, "I wonder if George is working on the inside now."

20:38:18 George Burdi: No, that's not the case. There's no inside to work on anyway. There's no outside either.

20:38:24 Shane Bugbee: I mean, but why don't you stop them from selling your stuff? I mean, seems odd. You'd love that stuff.

20:38:28 George Burdi: Right, they have the legal right to publish that CD. They own it as part of their catalogue.

20:38:34 Shane Bugbee: I thought you own resistance records though at one time. George Burdi: Right, they have the legal right to publish that CD. They own it as part of their catalogue.

20:38:34 Shane Bugbee: I thought you own resistance records though at one time.

20:38:37 George Burdi: What was that?

20:38:37 Shane Bugbee: I thought you had own resistance.

20:38:39 George Burdi: I did own resistance records. And I walked away from resistance records when I left the movement in 97.

20:38:44 Shane Bugbee: So you sold it?

20:38:45 George Burdi: I walked away from it actually, one of my partners ended up selling it to a party down in California who in turn ended up selling it to the National Alliance.

20:38:53 Shane Bugbee: Okay, so you left...

20:38:54 George Burdi: I was not involved in it didn't receive any monies in the transaction and actually didn't even know until years later, exactly what had happened when I started asking a couple questions.

20:39:03 Shane Bugbee: Right on, right on...

20:39:04 George Burdi: How it ended up in Pierce' hand, Pierce's hands I get like a, you know, update once in a while, but I wasn't involved. And no, I walked away from it. I was like, You know what, the first thing I did when I left the movement, as I said, I'm not gonna sit around reading anti racist stuff now and try to figure out why I was wrong. Because I didn't have any ideas that I was wrong. I just gave up I was out of energy at first. So got outta jail. And moping around, I didn't have a job and I know what to do. And all I decided though, I was just going to leave the movement behind. And that really meant kind of leaving my entire circle of friends behind it really everybody had known in the in the in almost 10 years prior. And I couldn't even talk to really know. And I just made the decision, i the only person I went and told in the movement is my guitarist, drummer haula, john Lavis. I went and went to his place, and we'd work together so long and had good chemistry as artists that I, you know, wanted to say something to him and let him know. And I just said, john, I said, you know, I'm just tired, I'm just fed up, I said, this is not viable, it's not going anywhere, and I'm not going to burn all my life on it. And that was its first, the reason I left. It was only in the, in the years after that, I came to gradually drift further and further away from that way of thinking and start to, you know, integrate myself into regular society, I ended up working as a bouncer at a nightclub in a downtown club. And it just started to kind of get introduced to a different world and, you know, saw that there was merit and other things as well. And it wasn't that I had ever kind of, you know, sat down and, and figured out all the intellectual arguments to what I had ever thought in my life. Because you try to do that type of a dialectic, you're going to get caught up in it forever, and you're never going to finish your your, your, your argument with yourself, all I really did was said, Okay, now I have to leave all this stuff behind, put it up on a shelf, at some point in the future, maybe I'll look back on these, these, these these ideas and think about them. And I do from time to time, I analyze them and try to make an understanding of the world. And, you know, I don't claim to have any answers, I just know that I reached sort of the bottom of, of what that ideology had to give. And it did have something to give at a certain stage. But, you know, ultimately, it's the worship of nature and the belief in the tribe. And the kind of loss of individuality that occurs in that process. Just sort of, didn't appeal to me anymore. It just, I had to go beyond that. Shane Bugbee: Right on, right on...

20:39:04 George Burdi: How it ended up in Pierce' hand, Pierce's hands I get like a, you know, update once in a while, but I wasn't involved. And no, I walked away from it. I was like, You know what, the first thing I did when I left the movement, as I said, I'm not gonna sit around reading anti racist stuff now and try to figure out why I was wrong. Because I didn't have any ideas that I was wrong. I just gave up I was out of energy at first. So got outta jail. And moping around, I didn't have a job and I know what to do. And all I decided though, I was just going to leave the movement behind. And that really meant kind of leaving my entire circle of friends behind it really everybody had known in the in the in almost 10 years prior. And I couldn't even talk to really know. And I just made the decision, i the only person I went and told in the movement is my guitarist, drummer haula, john Lavis. I went and went to his place, and we'd work together so long and had good chemistry as artists that I, you know, wanted to say something to him and let him know. And I just said, john, I said, you know, I'm just tired, I'm just fed up, I said, this is not viable, it's not going anywhere, and I'm not going to burn all my life on it. And that was its first, the reason I left. It was only in the, in the years after that, I came to gradually drift further and further away from that way of thinking and start to, you know, integrate myself into regular society, I ended up working as a bouncer at a nightclub in a downtown club. And it just started to kind of get introduced to a different world and, you know, saw that there was merit and other things as well. And it wasn't that I had ever kind of, you know, sat down and, and figured out all the intellectual arguments to what I had ever thought in my life. Because you try to do that type of a dialectic, you're going to get caught up in it forever, and you're never going to finish your your, your, your argument with yourself, all I really did was said, Okay, now I have to leave all this stuff behind, put it up on a shelf, at some point in the future, maybe I'll look back on these, these, these these ideas and think about them. And I do from time to time, I analyze them and try to make an understanding of the world. And, you know, I don't claim to have any answers, I just know that I reached sort of the bottom of, of what that ideology had to give. And it did have something to give at a certain stage. But, you know, ultimately, it's the worship of nature and the belief in the tribe. And the kind of loss of individuality that occurs in that process. Just sort of, didn't appeal to me anymore. It just, I had to go beyond that.

20:41:39 Shane Bugbee: So do you still have a soft spot in your heart for Robert Matthews?

20:41:45 George Burdi: You know, I really felt that, you know, any person who, who truly and passionately believes in something with their whole heart, you know, I feel sort of as like a kindred spirit of sorts, and I, you know, I can I feel I feel sorry for, for, for for the world, I feel sorry for the pain that that human beings put other people through, and I feel sorry for the mess that we've made of the world. And, you know, individual lives that, that, that are sort of part of that, that tragedy include people like like Robert Matthews, could have had a much different life if he'd been born into a different time. And I know a lot of people rotting away in jail that you know, could have been good fathers and good members of society and again, just born into a time under certain circumstances and that's what their lives became.

20:42:47 Shane Bugbee: Are you in contact with anyone from the old days like David Lane? Have you ever written him?

20:42:53 George Burdi: No, no, I've never written David lane but as far as being in contact with other people from the movement, I get daily emails from from skinheads who are either still in the movement or in one stage or the other of having leaving the movement or having already left it's it's interesting actually, some of the conversations that I have with people they run the whole gamut you know, some people are just want to tell me to fuck off and other people want to want to write me a letter and kind of engaging a bit of a dialogue because they're, they're sort of wondering what I may think of, of their ideas and, and they want to kind of hear the what arguments I may have for them now. I know when I was in the movement, I always wanted to hear what somebody else had to say and what the best arguments out there could possibly be. Because I was very interested in kind of, you know, having that that dialectic. But, you know, some of the guys another write me a letter, they'll tell me to go fuck myself, and I'll write them back. And I'll just say to them, Well, you know, I can understand why you would feel that way. Because I said, I was gonna march along with you into the flames of revolution. And, you know, here I am, apparently, standing on the other side of the fence. So, so you know, I could understand you feeling that way. And let's just get that out of the way right up front. However, I've always been a person that felt I had to say what I was feeling. And if there was an idea in my head, I felt like I had to express it. I didn't ever keep things in because they were unpopular, because I was afraid of offending people. I just have always just tried to say what I felt. And this is just a time now when I have to do the same thing. And I have to just say that I think I was wrong on some points. And, and I have to take my lumps for for that, as far as Messners referenced earlier, to me being a rat, because I left the movement. It's a convenient term to use. And it's it's very neat, but the truth is that I was offered many opportunities to do something like that, and to give evidence against people, and I never worked with the police. It's one of the reasons why am I my band is just being sold online and not in a record store. You know, I never made the proper inroads into the anti racist community, by really just kind of become a man of our country, in a way I just, I'm just doing my own thing. And if leaving the movement and want to do my own thing, upsets some people that I guess they're entitled to their opinion.

20:45:31 Amy Bugbee: So now, where would you say that your spirituality lies? Is it? Does it fit into a specific group, you know, like, Christian or something? Or do you take different aspects of a lot of different faiths? Are you atheist?

20:45:47 George Burdi: Well, I mean, religion is such a complicated issue, and definitely do not identify myself as any one particular religion. I think that if you learn enough about all religions, instead, we'll learn about the world of tradition, then you end up, you end up being able to see the commonality between spiritual ideas. And the type of God that I want to find is the type of God that can be born in me, the type of God that I can intimately know that I can experience not the God that I have to believe in because it was it was told because it was a golden rule handed down to me, I want to instead, know it as an imminent reality that I've experienced with men through experiential wisdom have come to know, rather than something that I've come to believe, and have foisted upon me as an ideology.

20:46:49 Amy Bugbee: Would you consider yourself more, I guess, are you more, I don't want to say happy but I guess, are you happier now than you were then? And if so, do you think it's because you have taken yourself out of that situation? Or do you think it's more just the, the angst of youth?

20:47:10 George Burdi: Well, it's probably a combination of that. I mean, definitely not having that having all those, you know, weights weighing me down bags weighing me down. I mean, it was back in the days of when I was in the movement. I mean, like, I couldn't accomplish anything, it was just so frustrating to work with those people into that's so much opposition and in so much media attention, and it was just like, you know, I didn't have my own life at all, I guess I many nights, right. You know, fell asleep in front of my computer working on my magazine, or, you know, was this constantly absorbed into it and looked like a hermit. I mean, police that were doing surveillance outside my house for months on end. It came out in court that they were just, you know, just remarked that how like days would pass and I wouldn't seemingly would never come out of my house. And most of that time I was down in the basement in front of a computer screen and working for you know, sometimes 18 hours a day on the on the magazine. That lady wrote most of it, then lay the entire thing out myself. 68 pages of the color cover was a ton of work. And plus had a lot of other responsibilities. So I mean, back in those days, I you know, happiness to me was being part of a fight and be part of a struggle. I define happiness differently today. I don't think life has to be a struggle in the sense that you constantly feel like you're toiling I think life If you can, instead, when when you use common sense and your order your life is structured well and you put the right, the right ideas into your head and the right action. to back it up, then I think life can be, can be rewarding and fulfilling. And I think that true happiness comes as a result of that not not attaching yourself to the accomplishments of your ancestors, like something that they did, as opposed to make you feel accomplished. I mean, stand on your own feet, don't don't need to attach yourself on to the greatness of somebody else. You know, they're not you so don't because your skin the same color, you're the same background, that doesn't mean that you're them. You don't deserve a part of their praise. You got it, you got to make it for yourself. And, and that's what I have, you know, my life now to do for myself and my own my family, my own personal work.

20:49:34 Amy Bugbee: Well, I know after we came up to see RAHOWA play in Canada, and you know, you spoke in your band performed, and Shane and I left and on the way home, we talked about how concerned we were for your safety and security, because we felt that you were trying to move that racialist movement somewhere further, and we were not about

20:49:57 Shane Bugbee: It's not about hate, it's about love. And when you said that we got what you were saying almost I don't think the rest of the crowd was listening, though. Amy Bugbee: Well, I know after we came up to see RAHOWA play in Canada, and you know, you spoke in your band performed, and Shane and I left and on the way home, we talked about how concerned we were for your safety and security, because we felt that you were trying to move that racialist movement somewhere further, and we were not about

20:49:57 Shane Bugbee: It's not about hate, it's about love. And when you said that we got what you were saying almost I don't think the rest of the crowd was listening, though.

20:50:04 Amy Bugbee: We were concerned that you would become a casualty like a Malcolm X or Martin Luther King, if you don't mind me using them as an example. So it's good to know that you're safe and you know, still doing stuff.

20:50:23 George Burdi: Well, yeah, the fact that I've gotten to the age of 33 is remarkable. No, I mean, all that stuff back in the movement days, but it happened in a blur for me. And but you know, looking back now it was like, I feel like I had to have had to have a certain I had to, I had to think this issue out and I had to publicly discuss it with people. And really, it's all I had wanted to do in the first place. When I first started getting into the movement literature when I was in high school. All I tried to do and what started the whole thing was I i teacher asked a class to do a presentation or alternative viewpoint of history. So I went and talked to my girlfriend's father, who I dated this girl for six months, and I've never really spoken to her father about his past because he was German and had been a child during World War Two. So I went to ask him to help me with my presentation that I had to do an alternative viewpoint of history. Well, it turns out he was a supporter of the Holocaust, revisionists by the name of Bernard sandal, and introduced me to the whole world of white power literature. And the whole thinking of Holocaust revisionism and eventually led into learning about national socialism and racial ideas, and so on and so forth. So having sort of having sort of gone through this process of of listening to him, tell me about something he had experienced and lived through. And then I went in front of the class, and I just gave almost verbatim what he had said. And the teacher like flipped out on me. He was red in the face, he was calling me all kinds of names and threatened to expel me from the school. If you ever heard me talk about this stuff. Again. I was writing up on the board that there's a Jewish conspiracy and that all races are not equal. And so. And so what ends up happening is I had just sort of presented this innocently. I mean, I only learned it the night before, I had no opinions on it. And I've been raised to think any of this. And so now I go up in front of a class that I'm talking about, and he freaks out and embarrasses me humiliates me yells at me in front of the class tells me off afterwards, and I took it as a challenge. The next thing I wanted to do was, I'm going to I'm going to go back to this, this man who taught me this stuff, and I want more literature. And I left that day for went back to his place and got a box full of books and tapes and everything that started me going, because I have wanted to argue with this teacher. So my guess my point in all this is that people kind of need to go through a process. And people shouldn't be freaked out on if they have an idea. If they want to discuss something or hear what somebody else has to say about it. They should be entitled to voice their opinion and hear what somebody else has to say, what's the harm? That's what people should do. People should share the human experience with one another. discuss everything. We haven't figured out what we're all doing here as a species. So let's all sort of share our experience with each other and let's ask hard questions at times. Yeah, man, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to get clues, right? We shouldn't we shouldn't have like, you know, this Emperor's New Clothes type. astrology?

20:53:55 Shane Bugbee: Well, that's sort of how I hooked up with you. I remember I think you wanted to put something in a metal fest magazine or something. No?

20:54:01 George Burdi: that's right. That's right. Milwaukee metal fest back in probably 95?

20:54:05 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, they were all afraid of you and I was I'm very anti censorship I think everything should be sad and you just learn from it and I had wondered you know, I I really the reason I did so many so much talking to you and went up to see you is so many people and it was all white folks telling me how Nazis are bad and I really didn't even understand really anything beyond what had a little bit I've learned in history class, what Nazis that were about or what the movement was about or anything. So I really wanted to learn from you or hear what you had to say. He sent me the Might is Right. We put those ads in the book and I'm you know, I feel I guess a little cheated. I never got to hear what you think I thought about the might is right book. You got put in jail...

20:54:51 George Burdi: I never saw the mind is right book. I got put in jail. And then I fell out of contact. So maybe you can send me one of the new ones and when the old ones together. Shane Bugbee: Yeah, they were all afraid of you and I was I'm very anti censorship I think everything should be sad and you just learn from it and I had wondered you know, I I really the reason I did so many so much talking to you and went up to see you is so many people and it was all white folks telling me how Nazis are bad and I really didn't even understand really anything beyond what had a little bit I've learned in history class, what Nazis that were about or what the movement was about or anything. So I really wanted to learn from you or hear what you had to say. He sent me the Might is Right. We put those ads in the book and I'm you know, I feel I guess a little cheated. I never got to hear what you think I thought about the might is right book. You got put in jail...

20:54:51 George Burdi: I never saw the mind is right book. I got put in jail. And then I fell out of contact. So maybe you can send me one of the new ones and when the old ones together.

20:55:00 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, I'd love to. Remember, we're supposed to have a bottle of wine and discuss nothing. I never you never saw any of it. Huh?

20:55:07 George Burdi: Hey, listen, I still got a bottle of wine waiting for you in Toronto. If you ever want to make it up, brother.

20:55:11 Shane Bugbee: Right on, bro. I would love to do that. Man. I really, I've always liked what you do. And I still do. I I appreciate what you're doing, George. Boy, it's been good talking to you. That's for sure.

20:55:27 George Burdi: Likewise, man.

20:55:28 Shane Bugbee: I'm sorry, I'm a little we've been up for 24 hours so

20:55:31 George Burdi: I'm Yeah, I heard about you listening to guys earlier there. You sound like you were running out of steam for a bit. Thought you were gonna turn on each other?

20:55:40 Well actually it's the 3rd day we've been up so yeah, it's horrible. But...

20:55:45 Amy Bugbee: We'll have to try to play your song again. I know. We tried to play it. My Eugene came on, but there was a technical...

20:55:50 George Burdi: Rip it up. You bring it on the CD and begin to play an audio now.

20:55:53 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well, the gentleman from Radio Free Satan downloaded it for me and fixed it up. So we're gonna play it right after we're done talking to you. It sounds really good. Yeah,

20:56:02 George Burdi: faster, smarter, far more clever. The Selfish Gene beneath the light. Immortal coils, the endless tether. Illegals of altruistic life. Awake me. Shake me. Take me teacher cast upon the spinning wheel. We don't belong amongst these creatures who cannot think and do not feel? How can I love you like I do? that's a that's a song black Easter. Man. Well, George, it's been great talking to you, man. Thank you very much. How do people get ahold of you? Well, if you check it out, if you go to Novacosm.com, you can you can listen to some music there. And we're also actually going to be putting all of our music online mp3 format, as well as is going to be actually listed with a CD Baby soon. But you can, you can find out everything about the band through noble cause and calm. We haven't updated the website in the last several months, as we've been working on new material and don't have a big staff or anything. But it's ready for a major overhaul a lot of great new content coming soon. And you know, anybody wants to check it out? That's great. We're actually going to be following in total non business strategy of music where our goal is going to be to give away as much music as possible so that we will be selling our CDs we'll be making our whole albums available for free download, and people that want to buy the album because they've had a chance to preview it properly within that's that's the way it's going to be done. So our attitude is to make music free and I've always viewed music as that way. You know, I passed the resistance records. We were probably the only record company that encouraged pirated music. We had people all over Europe making bootleg CDs and didn't didn't really care. So I mean, my attitude about music is that it's it's art and the more people that want to take the time to listen to what something I've created. Then that's that's all good. And if anyone wants to drop me a line, they can email me at George at noble cause and calm. And she has been a blast. Amy and I believe Doug is your name right?

20:58:12 Doug Misicko: Right.

20:58:13 George Burdi: Thank you never got properly introduced but hang in there. How many hours? analyze a book for you. Three, three. Yeah, three hours. We're sleep. What? Huh?

20:58:24 Amy Bugbee: Yeah, sorry, we didn't introduce a dog like we should have you know, we're getting out of it.

20:58:31 George Burdi: You guys gonna be making this available as a download on the website or no?

20:58:34 Shane Bugbee: Absolutely.

20:58:35 Amy Bugbee: They tell us.

20:58:36 George Burdi: Okay. Amy Bugbee: They tell us.

20:58:36 George Burdi: Okay.

20:58:37 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, man. It was good. Talking to you, George. Thanks a lot for calling man.

20:58:40 George Burdi: Okay, guys.

20:58:40 Shane Bugbee: Stay strong.

20:58:41 George Burdi: Okay, Stay Stay strong.

20:58:45 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna play his song right now. That was really, really, really cool. Me and Amy. We're good old friends with George. We made friends with him a long time ago, having spoke with him since he got out of jail. That was really nice to talk to him. Alright Tom Metzger don't have anyone bashed my head in because I said that. All right. I don't. I don't want no problems from no one. No. I bet you the Novachasm fans will be the ones that bash their heads in.

20:59:08 Amy Bugbee: They were both lovely guests though.

20:59:10 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well, they were a hell of a lot more polite than the fuckers that are leaving messages on the Church of Satan board.

20:59:17 Amy Bugbee: And I just want to say to "my gun is bigger" in the chat room. Hang in there, man.

20:59:23 Shane Bugbee: That's three hours. We got one listener that's been with us. 24 hours. That's our boy. Yeah, and we're sending them our stinky clothes from being here 24hrs.

20:59:30 Amy Bugbee: He's concerned about ODing on NoDoz.

20:59:33 Shane Bugbee: Hey, brother. Well, this I think this...

20:59:36 Doug Misicko: Dont worry about it, it's a good way to go.

20:59:38 Shane Bugbee: Yeah. This song is going to "my big gun". What's his name?

20:59:45 Amy Bugbee: My gun is bigger.

20:59:46 Doug Misicko: I don't remember what his real name was. We even talkec to him...

Hour 22

21:06:21 Pre-record (fem): hosting has more digital radio you know people are saying what is the most appealing radio for you? Is it the food flavor or the cream filling? I think it's the Radio Free safe and creamy and fruity.

21:06:42 Pre-record (masc): This is Professor sinister and you are listening to Radio Free statement. And remember, don't eat the yellow snow. This is Professor sinister. And if I'm listening at home, just to remind me, this is Radio Free Satan you're listening to numbnuts and don't forget to vacuum later. Geez. Hello, this is Professor sinister and I'd like to present you with my idea of what a radio free Satan theme might sound like. How do you do a radio free Satan Malabo. That's what you were listening to. And then it goes on like that. But bomb media for Satan with the ability to contain your good listener. Something like that. I didn't need a bit of work but you get the idea how much Satan could Radio Free Satan free if a radio free Satan could free Satan. This is Professor sinister asking the important questions here on Radio Free Satan.

21:16:02 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, we're on. We're on with Peter Gilmer. Hi, Peter.

21:16:03 Peter Gilmore: Hi. How are you all doing holding up now after your marathon?

21:16:07 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah.

21:16:07 Amy Bugbee: Good little craze. See the finish line?

21:16:11 Peter Gilmore: That's good.

21:16:12 Shane Bugbee: I guess we need to make proper introductions since George Hawthorne called us out on that. Peter Gilmore: That's good.

21:16:12 Shane Bugbee: I guess we need to make proper introductions since George Hawthorne called us out on that.

21:16:17 Peter Gilmore: Oh he did, did he?

21:16:18 Shane Bugbee: Yeah. So we have the artists that drew some of the illustrations for the new printing of Might is Right in the studio.

21:16:25 Peter Gilmore: All right. Excellent.

21:16:26 Shane Bugbee: His name is Doug.

21:16:28 Peter Gilmore: Good to have creative people on board.

21:16:30 Shane Bugbee: We have my beautiful wife, Amy and me we've met.

21:16:34 Peter Gilmore: Yes, indeed.

21:16:35 Amy Bugbee: We had a lovely lunch.

21:16:37 Shane Bugbee: And we have one of the gentlemen from the black metal band Usurper sitting waiting for you. Oh, he's coming on next. So, he's in the he's in the background, say, "hey".

21:16:48 Peter Gilmore: I've never heard their music.

21:16:50 Shane Bugbee: Oh, well, we have to send you a CD. They're wicked, good black metal.

21:16:54 Amy Bugbee: Soon you'll get to hear him.

21:16:57 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, Rick have anything to see.

21:16:58 Rick Scythe: Oh yeah, yeah...

21:17:01 Shane Bugbee: So how are you today, Peter?

21:17:02 Peter Gilmore: Oh, doing fine. If there is a very interesting mood in New York, of course, being the anniversary of the attacks in 2001. And you kind of noticed the gravity in the air that makes everybody kind of stop and think and realize their vulnerability all over.

21:17:20 Shane Bugbee: I have a couple friends in New York. And I know I've read some of your writings about what happened. And it's definitely a different feel here than there.

21:17:30 Peter Gilmore: Oh, I would imagine. Yeah.

21:17:32 Shane Bugbee: You know, so...

21:17:33 Peter Gilmore: Ya know we were living in a golden age of real freedom. Before the 911 attacks, people here really felt that they didn't have to worry that someone would actually violate the social contract on that level. It was really naive. And it was proven to be such that day, but that that era may be gone forever. Now.

21:17:54 Doug Misicko: You said the New York seem to stop and think today. I've been in New York a few times in the masses, there didn't seem to have the capability to stop and think.

21:18:04 Peter Gilmore: Well, the masses don't but there are enough people that do and even those who are mental sluggards are, or they can tap into the feel in the air. It's something more primal than their conscious thought.

21:18:18 Doug Misicko: So what did you make of September 11, the attacks a call to arms against fundamentalism.

21:18:23 Peter Gilmore: Exactly. Precisely. What 911 showed us was that fanatical fundamentalists are poisoned to a social contract. And I like the idea of a social contract because it allows me to spend my time on pursuits other than just trying to keep food on my table and defend what possessions I have. So those kinds of folks are dangerous doesn't matter whether they're Islamic, or Christian, or whatever kind of religion, if they have that kind of fanaticism, where they want to destroy anybody who does not think as they do, then they have to be recognized as the rabid dogs, they are eventually weeded out from a secular culture.

21:19:01 Doug Misicko: What did you feel about the cleanup work that some of the academics tried to do immediately thereafter, claiming that that was not the face of the true Islam?

21:19:11 Peter Gilmore: Well, again, Islam does have a whole group and range of sex. But when you look at the early history of Islam, they were very hostile to anybody who didn't believe as they did, much as the Christians were, it took a long time for Christianity to be placed in a position where they didn't have the unity with governmental powers, they could exercise conversion or death. So in time, Islam over the world may reach a point where it's not linked with governments with weapons, or with members that can get a hold of weapons that can destroy the I mean, the situation in Israel is a very, one to think about, because there's a relatively small group of suicidal individuals are slaughtering people, by the day with with bombing runs, they're not afraid to die, they think they're getting some kind of illusory heavenly reward. And those people are absolutely dangerous.

21:20:02 Amy Bugbee: But do you really feel that's the case? I mean, you know, these people have had, the Palestinians have had everything they own taken from them, they've been forced to move into refugee camps, and the Israelis still come in with tanks and blow them up. And every time there is a suicide bombing, these people are flying their choppers over and bombing refugee camps, which seems to be an oxymoron of the whole idea of a refugee camp. I mean, these people are desperate people, they have no weapons, they have nothing. What choice do they have? I think if I were in that situation, I might strap a bomb to myself too.

21:20:35 Peter Gilmore: Oh, you might but then you're dead. Do you have no more life to live. And the whole point is...

21:20:40 Amy Bugbee: They don't have a life now. I mean, they've had they've lost it all.

21:20:43 Peter Gilmore: They could find, I think they might find ways to have a different kind of life than than what they expected, we have to always adapt. Remember, we're talking about Might is Right as our basic issue here for this day. And the book, that's just out, that we want to remind people buy the book.

21:20:58 Amy Bugbee: Thank you.

21:20:59 Peter Gilmore: If you basically are attacking a power that has more mics than you do, then you can only expect to be slaughtered. So going in there and blowing up Israelis is going to have reprisals, just like blowing up buildings in this nation had reprisals for the nations that harbor those people, you really have to keep aware of who has the power in the situation. And one, you can't be idealistic. You can't say I want my life to always be the way it is that not may not be possible, you have to adapt and find a life that's going to be as as satisfying for you as it can be, but it may not necessarily be an ideal that you have. You have to be pragmatic about it. I don't think they're being pragmatic.

21:21:38 Amy Bugbee: What about like the Revolutionary War and the Americans against the British. I mean, people would say that, would have said the same thing. I'm sure people in Britain, were saying that about the silly Americans.

21:21:49 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, but America had the power to pull it off, and did. And that's might again made right, they had the money. They didn't they they had help from France. And, again, it's all a matter of power imbalances of power. The Palestinians could have the right kind of allies, they wouldn't have to be committing suicide all the time.

21:22:07 Doug Misicko: I think Mine is Right could be taken either way, in that case. You could say, Israel has the upper hand, they should be able to take the upper hand, they should be able to expand their borders, if they've got the might it makes right. But also you could say that if the Palestinians can display any type of might, and they're feeling that they're oppressed, they should do whatever they can.

21:22:27 Peter Gilmore: Well, the thing is, everybody will, that's always what happens, you know, might is right isn't something that you have to try to promote. It's what it's how things work. It's simply a definition of a reality, so that everyone will struggle for what they want, whether it's idealistic, or pragmatic, and whoever wields the most power will eventually win and rewrite the history so that they look like they were doing the right thing all along, depending on their audience.

21:22:48 Doug Misicko: That's I agree. And I think mine is right basically says how it is not how it should be or how we will make it that's the way it is.

21:22:59 Peter Gilmore: Exactly. It's reality. It's not ideal.

21:23:03 Doug Misicko: It's a philosophy of realism.

21:23:05 Peter Gilmore: Precisely.

21:23:06 Doug Misicko: I think what people most people it seems, even within internal chat rooms and everything else don't seem to understand. And it must grow annoying to you, is the fundamental atheism of laveyan Satanism.

21:23:19 Peter Gilmore: Oh, that does get kind of tiresome, and you know, we thought most people cleared out in 1975. But they kind of creep back in that one again. You know, the real thing with Satanism is that it isn't spiritual. It's carnal. It's material. And the folks that try to bring Some kind of spiritualism into it or really missing the point. But it's about living your life for the here and now not dealing with some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo. There'll be a Wiccan or a Setian in or something, if that's your, your taste and things. And we don't care if people really think that way. But it certainly isn't what the Church of Satan is about.

21:23:56 Amy Bugbee: Peter, throughout our broadcast, I think we've touched on a number of times the problems with infighting and pettiness within the Church of Satan. What do you think about that? I mean, don't you think that all of that ends up holding people back?

21:24:11 Peter Gilmore: Well, you know, I don't really see much pettiness or infighting in the Church of Satan. I think that that it becomes an illusion for people who are online, who might bicker with each other. But those amount of people you can count on several hands, and really is such a miniscule drop in the ocean of the 1000s of members we have in the Church of Satan, that it's really not even considered worth considering. It's just, you know, minor people with big mouths, and they're online. But the real people who count in the Church of Satan, as in real life are the ones who are out there really making something happen. They're producing things, they're doing books, they're doing movies, they're doing radio shows, they're doing music, they're doing all kinds of things. And you know, they're too busy to waste their lives in bickering and infighting. Those are the people who don't seem to have much better to do. And those kind of people are worth ignoring.

21:24:58 Doug Misicko: Well, they seem they're the ones who maintain this mainly for the image, for the identity, rather than building one of their own, they're latching on to something that was prefabricated for them.

21:25:11 Peter Gilmore: Well, there are so many people who are like that in the world, that they're looking for an identity and they want to hang their hat on something. But those kind of folks often will move on to something else, if they don't get what they want out of what they think is the source for the identity, like they want to be somehow catered to. And the Church of Satan isn't about catering to people. So those kind of folks sort of move on fairly quickly. At least we've seen that over many years that we've been involved. So it's it solves itself. It's a wonderful organic organization that does weed out those kinds of people in time.

21:25:44 Doug Misicko: Do you see the Church of Satan as progressing and moving into a different phase?

21:25:49 Peter Gilmore: Well, the phase now is is really one where we are extending on all of the foundations and developments that we've had over the past years, that we are now in a position with the current technology, and our worldwide reach an instantaneous touch with people in just about every nation on the globe, to really get the kind of ideas out there that we want to explore. That people can really find out immediately now, what Satanism really is, instead of listening to, you know, intelligent people can like, of course, naturally, we're dealing with the human species, and 90% of it is worthless, but the intelligent folks have instant access to knowing what we're really about. And if they're carnal, people who are in tune with our kind of symbols, then they can be part of our movement. And that's certainly a power that is growing. In leaps and bounds right now in the organization. We're at the strongest point we've ever been.

21:26:44 Shane Bugbee: What would you do if you were emperor of America right now?

21:26:48 Peter Gilmore: Emperor of America? No, if I'd want to do that, because I probably wouldn't have enough time to enjoy myself. It'd be fuck, too much responsibilities, that would be amazingly boring.

21:27:01 Doug Misicko: Would you instate a eugenics policy?

21:27:03 Peter Gilmore: Well, I think that that is definitely something that that needs to be done. In time, we have to sit especially since we're cracking the genetic code. But we're getting to the point where we'll be able to design the kind of offspring and further generations that we're going to have, I think that's really an important thing for our species on the whole, that we've understood, that sort of diversity of breeding has brought interesting results. And, you know, humans, of course, breed animals to try to bring the best and I don't see why we don't apply that to ourselves.

21:27:34 Doug Misicko: I couldn't agree more.

21:27:36 Peter Gilmore: It only I mean, eugenics, of course, as you folks probably know, didn't have a bad name until the excesses of the Third Reich. It was totally promoted by most intellectuals throughout the Western world. I even have a book on my shelf promoting eugenics, and it was endorsed by the Episcopalian church. So you can't get more conservative than that. So, you know, it really was an idea that that that was around. And it was tainted, because of misdirected use of it. But it's something that in time should be restored, because it's the only way to actually evolve our species. What we see is when we look back over human history, that physically we don't seem to have evolved much at all over over the course of recorded history that we know. And if we really want to change ourselves, the time may be to take active measures to do so, to see what could be better and to do that, and of course, there may be mistakes along the way as there always are when progress is happening.

21:28:32 Doug Misicko: Well, the idea is that we haven't been evolving but in fact, we've been regressing as dysgenics, because the stupidest people are capable of spitting out the most children. Now...

21:28:43 Peter Gilmore: Sure, situations where folks who basically aren't contributing in many instances are allowed to do whatever they want to, and they keep reproducing. But you know, in the end, those aren't some people who really will move society anyway. And we always have to look towards the fact that we're always dealing with a stratification pyramid, and that the majority of people are always going to be relatively worthless. And I think even throughout history, if we look at who was breeding most, it was the kind of worthless people anyway. So I don't really see that that's so much of a big change, that it's really always hard because, you know, look, look at if we look at really ancient history, the majority of the classes that were out there were slave classes were being put to use to build the architecture and all the cultural elements, the folks who are doing the art, and the priesthood and aristocracy were always the tiniest tip of that pyramid. And that really hasn't changed so much.

21:29:40 Amy Bugbee: But what about the fact that in ancient times, the royalty was mostly inbreeding brothers and sisters and cousins were forced to marry and reproduce?

21:29:49 Peter Gilmore: Yeah well, that ended up causing a lot of genetic trouble too, didn't it? So, you know, the thing is, at a certain point in European history, they are often looking outside of their own particular houses to foreign royalties, that to breed and that was a good idea that it created some genetic diversity, and again, produce some interesting results. And, of course, some some poor results to those folks didn't have any deep knowledge of how how breeding works, or, or genetics at all, you know, with the knowledge that we have, plus the cracking of the genome, there's so much more that can really be done. And it would be interesting to see it happen. And of course, it will, on some level. The thing is, once the knowledge is there, people will use it, whether it's done overtly it or done covertly, which is more likely, with something like that that's so unpopular, it will happen.

21:30:36 Doug Misicko: I believe the numbers are kept fairly fairly, fairly secret, but can you give us an estimate of the annual growth of the membership of the Church of Satan?

21:30:46 Peter Gilmore: I really can't say that this Anton LeVey, they created a policy of not letting people know our membership at all. Because if it seems to be too many, we look like a threatened and seems to be too little people won't take us seriously. So that's something we really don't. I mean, we we do have 1000s of people worldwide, and we get people almost joining every single day. So...

21:31:06 Shane Bugbee: What business is that have yours that of yours, though? Are you an accountant, IRS, what?

21:31:12 Peter Gilmore: Everybody wants to know. And it's fun to keep it a mystery...

21:31:15 Shane Bugbee: Stupidest question I've ever heard. No, I'm joking, Doug. Not the stupidest. I don't understand what the hell that question is. You know? Why? Peter Gilmore: Everybody wants to know. And it's fun to keep it a mystery...

21:31:15 Shane Bugbee: Stupidest question I've ever heard. No, I'm joking, Doug. Not the stupidest. I don't understand what the hell that question is. You know? Why?

21:31:23 Doug Misicko: It's a natural question. They want to know, yeah.

21:31:27 Peter Gilmore: It is most people ask, and then, you know, I give the standard answer that I just did.

21:31:31 Doug Misicko: I don't feel any better about most people asking, but I still don't think it's a stupid question.

21:31:37 Shane Bugbee: Well, I'm tired. Okay, Doug. I'm sure I would just want to punch him because I'm looking at him for 24hrs.

21:31:45 Peter Gilmore: Now, now have something good to drink and relax.

21:31:48 Shane Bugbee: Oh, we will once we had to take we had to take you very seriously. After this. It's the black metal band, you know, we're going downhill from here. Or uphill for some parts of the audience. So...

21:32:01 Amy Bugbee: How much of the show Have you listened to? And what have you thought so far?

21:32:05 Peter Gilmore: We only really came in towards the latter part. Because we've been really kind of busy today.

21:32:10 Shane Bugbee: So to hear Tom Metzger.

21:32:12 Peter Gilmore: No, no, we missed him because we sort of went out to have dinner before he was on your plane some speeches that were recorded with George Hawthorn and somebody else and...

21:32:21 Shane Bugbee: You emailed me and said "white power-less"...

21:32:23 Peter Gilmore: Oh, yeah, yeah.

21:32:24 Shane Bugbee: So you're not you don't have any appreciation for the white power movement.

21:32:29 Peter Gilmore: Well, I appreciate what they are, which is generally desperate powerless people who are looking for an identity to somehow give themselves some kind of self confidence. And those people are generally fairly empty inside and it's I'm feel bad for them because a lot of them is not linked themselves into something idealistic and would construct on their own personal well being they might achieve it. This way they're making themselves pariahs were watched by a lot of factors in our society, which will just make their lives miserable. It's not going to give them a better life.

21:33:01 Shane Bugbee: So when you think of the last printing of might is right, the one I did with when Anton LeVey originally gave me the foreword, and then I had the, the George Eric Hawthorne, afterward and the Katja Lane, editor's note.

21:33:14 Peter Gilmore: Oh, it was fun. It was a good addition because it brought a lot more information to go with the book. And it showed that there's a whole range of people who find inspiration from those texts.

21:33:22 Shane Bugbee: Do you agree with Dr. LaVey's theory with the jack London theory?

21:33:27 Peter Gilmore: I think that that's a good possibility. I personally haven't done the kind of research to make any kind of real convincing for myself about it. You know, I hear what all these different people say, and I haven't looked at the manuscripts. So I really can't say, if I did, I might have something more definite to say about that.

21:33:44 Shane Bugbee: Ok.

21:33:46 Peter Gilmore: Can't can't say one way or another because I really don't know. But I think it's a fascinating theory. And certainly, there's enough evidence there to lend some credibility. But so there may really, indeed be several people who were involved in it, because the writing style is inconsistent through the whole text.

21:34:02 Doug Misicko: Alright, stop me if this is an another dead question. But...

21:34:06 Shane Bugbee: Stop.

21:34:07 Doug Misicko: All right.

21:34:07 Shane Bugbee: No, I'm joking.

21:34:09 Doug Misicko: But how did you come to be into the Church of Satan? How did you meet Lavey and come to be on the Council of Nine? And ultimately...

21:34:17 Peter Gilmore: Well, basically, I read the Satanic Bible when I was 13 years old, I saw it in a bookstore and said, Well, you know, I've read the rest of the religious texts, the main major texts and found them all to be basically mythology. And I thought, well, here's something that looks like another take on it. So I purchased the book, read it. And prior to that, I'd basically considered myself an atheist. And then I read that and said, You know, I guess there's another name for me, the name is Satan. And I basically considered myself a Satanist from the moment I read that book, and later, I, you know, wrote Santa love and joined the Church of Satan and was invited to meet him and became a good friend and colleague, and, you know, we had a relationship that got stronger as, as the years went by. So what was the same with my wife, too, I actually, when I was in high school, I introduced her to the Satanic Bible. And she also felt that it was represented her philosophy. And so we both joined when we were in college, the Church of Satan, and we both received the invitation to meet Anton LaVey and we did. And it really was magical. progressed from there. And we would never regret it. It was really a fascinating experience and a great journey.

21:35:30 Doug Misicko: The chat room wants to know about your upcoming book.

21:35:33 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, I've got it, I've got to get The Black Flame out first, and then I'll put my book out, I keep rewriting it and adding new things. So I've got to like at a certain point, smack my hand and say, No, no, just leave it alone and put it out. But most of my past two essays I've had in The Black Flame and other places, some of which have been expanded, and a bunch of new ones, too, that haven't been printed anywhere. And it has my Rite of Ragnarok ritual that was in a Swedish publication years ago. And the official, satanic wedding rites and satanic funeral rites that I wrote that are in use through our priesthood for our members these days. So I'm hoping to get it out by early 2004. That's the plan for now.

21:36:16 Doug Misicko: You have a publisher?

21:36:18 Peter Gilmore: We're gonna do it ourselves, because we want complete control over it.

21:36:21 Doug Misicko: Is that Hell's Kitchen?

21:36:22 Peter Gilmore: Yes.

21:36:23 Shane Bugbee: That's the best way to do it.

21:36:24 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, it really is. Because it'll look exactly like I want, you know, some people have approached us about it. But then the whole thing is they want to get an editor involved. And you just don't want to do that. I really want this to be precisely the way I want it to be. So I'll design it and I'll produce it. And there it will go. The only person to blame will be me.

21:36:44 Shane Bugbee: Well, I always find someone else to blame. No, I'm just kidding.

21:36:48 Peter Gilmore: Well, that takes creative efforts. And that's a good thing.

21:36:52 Shane Bugbee: I forgot what I was gonna ask. Boy, that's a good one.

21:36:55 Amy Bugbee: Uh oh, sorry for your shock for anyone listening. Shane Bugbee: I forgot what I was gonna ask. Boy, that's a good one.

21:36:55 Amy Bugbee: Uh oh, sorry for your shock for anyone listening.

21:36:56 Shane Bugbee: Oh. Oh oh oh, Doug was asking you earlier, you missed the question. He was asking if you could give us a brief synopsis of your book.

21:37:06 Peter Gilmore: Oh, well, it basically I, you know, it's it's essays, and ritual. And the essays are some of the ones that I had in The Black Flame. There, some of them are expanded to, and a bunch of new ones that no one's seen yet. And the rituals for the satanic marriage, funeral, and the Rite of Ragnarok.

21:37:24 Amy Bugbee: So no, Peter, getting back to I guess the anniversary that today is, you being in New York have kind of a different views. So what is your opinion of President Bush and how he's handled the whole thing and the war on terrorism and all that stuff?

21:37:39 Peter Gilmore: Well, that's again, you know, we don't really know all all of what's going on there. I think that the media gives us a certain portion. And I hear from people in the military, some other things. And that, you know, Bush has never struck me as a particularly intelligent fellow, but he does have some smart people around him. And although the War on Terror is something that that is, he seems to bring all these Christian moral issues to it, which I am against. But I do like the idea of trying to preserve our society from having terrorists attacks in it and if we need to go crush them elsewhere, then that's a wise thing. You know, America has the might, we should wield it. The might is right, you know, we have to use the power. We don't have the greatest army and technology on earth to not use it. And I really think that we're in a point where we have this war of secularism versus religious fanaticism. And bush doesn't understand that because he's a religious person, that he's trying to make it into some kind of a holy war of essentially I really think, you know, is commentary to, you know, pro Islam or types of Islam, you know, exception, that that on a certain level, most Christians really do feel that, that it's a war of some kind of Christian ethic against Islam and they don't see this, that that kind of Christianity is practically the same. So we really have to focus it and think that's the problem that they're the awareness of the real issues behind this war on terrorism are not clear with our leaders that we in their public speaking, it may be that there are some very pragmatic people behind it, who are doing it for economic reasons, and, and other reasons that are really just using these trappings to try to manipulate society into going along with it. But again, all of that will remain hidden as as most of that kind of stuff usually does. And only eventually, we may find out the real motivations behind everything.

21:39:30 Doug Misicko: The most threatening terrorist in my mind to our freedoms, is John Ashcroft.

21:39:35 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, well, you know, essentially that that Patriot Act, which people are definitely revolting against is, is really a slap in the face of the Constitution.

21:39:46 Shane Bugbee: You can say that again...

21:39:47 Doug Misicko: So aren't you almost tempted to vote for Bush, again, to kind of forced the hand of hand of backlash, so to speak?

21:39:55 George Burdi: We know it, we'll have to see how that happens. The thing is, the herd always goes along with the flow, unfortunately, and the herd can't really take real freedom. Once unlimited choices are before them. They're frightened, they need limited selections, like one from column A one from column B. And they can then feel they're free, because they get to choose one or the other. That's the kind of freedom that most people can handle and tolerate. The thing is the kind of freedom that we sort of folks want, which is something that the founding fathers wove into our Constitution, it's something that does have to be fought for, because the marching morons don't want it and don't need it and don't understand it. So that's really kind of a responsibility to the real free thinkers in the future is to try to keep that constitution solid. And we have members who are in government and in law who are working towards that end right now.

21:40:52 Doug Misicko: We grow to hate them, because we don't need their laws.

21:40:56 Peter Gilmore: We don't want that kind of law.

21:41:00 Doug Misicko: What kind of law Do we want?

21:41:02 Peter Gilmore: A law that keeps things organized, and allows the people who can handle freedom to have it, but its not egalitarian. Egalitarianism is grotesque, because it's basically trying to say everybody's the same. And they're not, most people don't have the ability to handle the kind of responsibility of abroad freedom. The whole point is, a lot of statements like to say, Okay, I want to advocate fascism. But the whole thing is, unless you're in the very top of the pyramid of the administration of the fascist regime, you're basically going to be sacrificed to the state. So that's not a good position to be in. The whole point is always been, we're trying to advocate a secular society, and that does have freedom for those who can handle it. And that's something subtle and difficult to maintain. Because in the United States, the way it seems to work is we have a consumer economy, where most of the herd is basically led by apples put out there on sticks, by corporations, hoping that's fine, if that's their bread and circuses and keeping them satisfied. But what we have to hope for, we fringe type, is that we're not going to be caught up in, in being squeezed out of having our own alternatives to those kinds of choices.

21:42:14 Doug Misicko: So would you say, We need more freedoms or less? Or is there a balance? I mean, I personally think drugs should be legal. And if you kill yourself on them, go ahead.

21:42:23 Peter Gilmore: Oh, yeah, I totally agree with that.

21:42:24 Doug Misicko: The laws we do enforce we should enforce possibly with death in most cases.

21:42:31 Peter Gilmore: You know what, I, you know, I'm hoping that there's, there's a problem. Now, that's, that's the kind of folks who don't want people in general to be free, can use security as a reason for stealing freedoms from us. And that's a very big danger that we're facing right now.

21:42:48 Amy Bugbee: Absolutely.

21:42:48 Peter Gilmore: That we have to be vigilant about that. And the thing is, there is a tradition in this country of trying to preserve that kind of freedom. And then we're not the only nation on Earth that has that. A lot of European folk may be very critical of the United States. But when you look at their governments, they're usually hand in glove with the Catholic or other churches, and they're quite happy to prosecute people for blasphemy. So this is the only nation especially of long standing existence that has that kind of tradition. And because it's there and on paper, and it's been given almost a sacred kind of approach. It's something that we can stand on and try to make certain that it isn't whittled away. And we're lucky our our founding fathers were very satanic individuals. And this really was the first satanic Republic. It's not a democracy, it's a republic. And it's a good thing too. Those guys were smart.

21:43:39 Doug Misicko: Do you think our culture is degenerating into decadence, and this is a sign that there's a new coming fascism?

21:43:48 Shane Bugbee: Peter, can you hear that train?

21:43:51 Peter Gilmore: Sounds like running you guys down.

21:43:56 Shane Bugbee: I live in between two train tracks. It's really interesting.

21:44:01 Peter Gilmore: The whole The question is interesting, because we'd really need to define like what's decadence. Sometimes, periods that are called decadent are ones where some very interesting artistic expression can happen. Because it's breaking away from a period beforehand, that was very repressive. So decadence can be a positive thing. If you look at it in that sense, if you look at decadence as being the rise of rampant mediocrity, which something that I see happening in our culture, then that's not such a good thing.

21:44:29 Doug Misicko: I'm not against decadence. But I was wondering if you saw the parallel, or recognize a parallel between the United States today and Weimar bullet Berlin, before the Nazi-ism.

21:44:43 Peter Gilmore: There are some some similar similarities, certainly and history does, of course, seem to run in cycles, for those who aren't aware of it. We'll have to see how it goes to see again, Germany at that point, didn't have the kind of tradition of supporting freedom that we have. It came from very chaotic... history. We don't have a chaotic history, here, we have a very solid 200 years of promoting freedom. So there's a very big difference there. So the results could be quite different. And when time passes, we must we're here to witness it. It's the greatest show on earth, and we're all part of it.

21:45:19 Shane Bugbee: We talking about this radio show?

21:45:23 Peter Gilmore: That's a good manifestation of it. Yes. Let's say that.

21:45:29 Doug Misicko: It's a symptom of the cultural decadence...

21:45:32 Peter Gilmore: But you guys have been sort of spending the days trying to shock people and get them paying attention. And...

21:45:37 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, exactly. Brick upside the head.

21:45:39 Peter Gilmore: Yeah. Well, that's the seat, you know. So this is sort of the Howard Stern version of Radio Free Satan. At the moment.

21:45:46 Shane Bugbee: I guess so. Well, that's great.

21:45:50 Peter Gilmore: Oh, that's good. You know...

21:45:51 Doug Misicko: I thought we were a little more cerebral than that. But I'm just sleep deprived. Perhaps.

21:45:55 Shane Bugbee: We didn't want to be okay. We just couldn't get the strippers or anyone in here. Okay.

21:46:00 Peter Gilmore: Well, next time, we have to make it a regular feature, and if you what kind of people you can get in for the next time?

21:46:06 Shane Bugbee: Exactly.

21:46:07 Amy Bugbee: There's a question from the chat room from Bill M. He wants to know about if how you feel about people who are Satanists, but don't ever use rituals in their lives?

21:46:20 Peter Gilmore: Oh, fine. There's a lot of people in our church who are like that, that they feel that their creative work is ritual enough for them? You know, the technique of ritual magic, is basically self transformational. And if you have other means of doing yourself transformation, then then you don't need to do that. The thing is, we think it is a very valid and useful tool. And a lot of folks who don't try it, when they finally take the plunge, see that it's very effective to them, because they've resisted it. And it affects them more psychologically, in a deeper way than say, somebody who ritualized all the time, and it's become all active.

21:46:55 Shane Bugbee: Wow, when I first read the Satanic Bible, that's the one part I just couldn't get through.

21:47:00 Peter Gilmore: Sure, sure. Well, that for me, too. When I first read it when I was 13, being a hardcore atheist, materialist. I said, Well, what's all this magical stuff? And and the whole point is, it's something you have to try on for size, see how it works for you. And you don't have to, it's not a requirement is there is an option. And again, many of our members do not ever go there. It doesn't, it doesn't have any, any validity for them. And again, Satanism is a user friendly religion. So you use the use the part that works for you. And if that doesn't, you don't need to don't worry.

21:47:36 Shane Bugbee: Amy, you were just waving like you had a question.

21:47:40 Amy Bugbee: No, I wasn't.

21:47:42 Shane Bugbee: Oh, I thought you're gonna ask about TV is God and your religion?

21:47:46 Amy Bugbee: Yes. Peter, what do you think of the TV ministry? And the notion that television is the modern god?

21:47:53 Peter Gilmore: Oh, well, that is obviously is, you know, everybody worships that is that it is the collective mind that is held by, you know, many, many heads. And it's, it's obvious you watch everybody, what are they talking about? They're all talking about, like "Survivor" or some stupid show that they're watching. It's what supplies them with values and thoughts. What we let passes for thinking these days, is these little little idea bites that people mow over and over. So yeah, it's certainly their gods.

21:48:23 Doug Misicko: They even call it reality now. Reality TV.

21:48:25 Peter Gilmore: Oh, yeah. Well, that's the funny part. It's like these amazingly manufactured entertainments, it's reality TV and it's like, No, it isn't.

21:48:33 Doug Misicko: So you watch it?

21:48:34 Peter Gilmore: Anything that that's created is an edited stylized version of real From a particular perspective,

21:48:40 Doug Misicko: Do you watch it or do you entirely avoid it?

21:48:42 Peter Gilmore: Huh?

21:48:43 Doug Misicko: Do you watch it? Or do you entirely avoid it?

21:48:45 Shane Bugbee: It as in TV or reality TV?

21:48:47 Doug Misicko: Eh TV, reality TV, whatever...

21:48:49 Peter Gilmore: I haven't watched any reality TV shows because if I want to watch something, I want professionals to be entertaining me on the highest level.

21:48:56 Shane Bugbee: No American Idol?

21:48:57 Peter Gilmore: Nope, nope. Well see, if that if somebody edited me the best lousy parts, the funny people that I might watch just for, for amusement sake, but I wouldn't sit through the rest of it, because somebody might just be mediocre not be absolutely awful. So I'd want to really see the awful stuff, because that would be funny.

21:49:14 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's what Yeah, that's good stuff.

21:49:16 Peter Gilmore: So somebody some if somebody has to do that, but in the version of the lousiest people that I'd watch. But, you know, I think TV, some you know, if there's some entertainment on there that might be well crafted, it's but it's mostly junk. You know, I prefer to buy DVDs of movies that I like and watch those.

21:49:34 Amy Bugbee: But that's still watching the TV. I mean, you know, I hear that from a lot of people, even the people from Radio Free State, and they always tell me, well, we don't watch TV, but they watch videos, and they work on their computer, it's the same thing. They're just the children of the television.

21:49:49 Peter Gilmore: Well, it depends on on, you know, the cathode ray tube, and now it's going to be the LCD screen or plasma screen, you know, is ubiquitous in our life. The thing is, I was away for a couple of weeks recently, and never looked at a computer screen and didn't watch television. And I felt fine. Didn't, you know, I didn't feel withdrawal? You know, for me, it's a tool. Like all the other tools I have, whether I'm sitting at my synthesizer, or whether I'm playing an instrument, or whether I'm reading a book, all these things are tools for me. I think the balanced person sees it that way, they don't feel a compulsion towards these things. They're just your arsenal, they're like, you know, use a knife or fork, keyboard, whatever, use what you need to accomplish what you want.

21:50:29 Amy Bugbee: Well, I think anything beyond that would be religious fanaticism anyway, whether you replace TV with God or Satan, or, you know, Allah, or whatever, if it reaches a point where you can't function without it. And I guess that is fanaticism. And that isn't healthy for anybody.

21:50:45 Peter Gilmore: No, no, it isn't, you know, but for some people who are hollow inside, it's how they live their lives and how they're so easily manipulated. But those serve spiritual people, the people who are addicted to television are spiritual, that's their spiritual wisdom. It's their what comes from outside to fill their empty inside.

21:51:04 Shane Bugbee: Exactly.

21:51:07 Peter Gilmore: We satanists are carnal folk, like what we have inside fills us and comes out. We're not sucking things in, you know, we might appreciate things that other people create, that are creative and enrich us. But it's by choice, you pick and choose the ones you like, you criticize the ones that you don't like you learn from them, especially if we're going to be creating something that's going to go out there and needs to be out in the realm of the marketplace. You have to understand what's out there and how you're going to handle that. You can't cut yourself off from the world if you want to make headway in it. And that's just foolish.

21:51:37 Doug Misicko: Okay, here's one. There's been a recent republication of the book.

21:51:43 Shane Bugbee: Site is right.

21:51:44 Doug Misicko: No. "Sexuality, Perversion and Magik". I think in that order.

21:51:49 Peter Gilmore: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a Francis Kane book. Yeah.

21:51:53 Doug Misicko: Well, he claims that there's secret, so you might not be able to say anything, Internal Church of Satan, sex rites or sex rituals that are practiced. What what's the credibility to this?

21:52:08 Shane Bugbee: Let me tell you, my wife, okay.

21:52:13 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, no, I read the book. It's a fun book. And, you know, that was really just kind of hype, you know, people can invent their own sexual rituals, you know, sexuality can certainly be part of personal magic. It's not something they usually do in a group setting, of course, because that kind of mechanical fornication is just for people who aren't creative sexually. But you know, there's there's no mandated sex rituals in Satanism. We don't have that, we don't need it. Because for us sex is a natural function of life like eating. No, we don't ritualize having dinner. So we don't ritualized our sex. So you should be a sexual gourmet and that usually is something you don't need to do in the ritual chamber but you know, if a couple you know want to do that then more power to them as long as it stimulates them. But we don't have any doctrine and no listed secret sex rights. But if people want to think that well you know, then we get the wrong people applying. Doug Misicko: Did you read this?

21:52:13 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, no, I read the book. It's a fun book. And, you know, that was really just kind of hype, you know, people can invent their own sexual rituals, you know, sexuality can certainly be part of personal magic. It's not something they usually do in a group setting, of course, because that kind of mechanical fornication is just for people who aren't creative sexually. But you know, there's there's no mandated sex rituals in Satanism. We don't have that, we don't need it. Because for us sex is a natural function of life like eating. No, we don't ritualize having dinner. So we don't ritualized our sex. So you should be a sexual gourmet and that usually is something you don't need to do in the ritual chamber but you know, if a couple you know want to do that then more power to them as long as it stimulates them. But we don't have any doctrine and no listed secret sex rights. But if people want to think that well you know, then we get the wrong people applying.

21:53:08 Shane Bugbee: You know, my wife goes, "Peter, what happened to the horror you you were writing this horror book, or?"

21:53:15 Peter Gilmore: Oh, that's our horor. Yeah. It's a...

21:53:17 Shane Bugbee: What's the title?

21:53:18 Peter Gilmore: It's called Grue, G-R-U-E and it's a horror short fiction. We haven't published in a while simply because the market is lousy for short fiction in horror. Publishing industry decided that the horror was a bad soap sub genre. They had to like drop that if you go to bookstores. Doesn't say horror anymore.

21:53:36 Shane Bugbee: Great, Amy. Amy's doing a websight horror of horror and doing all of her horror stories.

21:53:43 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, well, you know, it's it's something that that out there in the marketplace is not so saleable. At this point, it really dropped. We came into it many years ago when it actually was, you know, embraced. And the magazine won all kinds of awards and got out there to a lot of different people and some some major screenwriters and our people that we published some of their first work in our early issues.

21:54:04 Shane Bugbee: Wow.

21:54:04 Peter Gilmore: So you know, you know, we really have some great people over the course. But these days, you know, you print the magazine, and you can't really sell it. So we're not fooled. You're not just throwing money down the drain. So we're when we're, what we're going to do is wait for a while when we feel we have some really tough such stories. Again, we'll publish another issue, but we're really not actively running out to do it because it really is something is not going to sell.

21:54:26 Amy Bugbee: It seems like for the last five or 10 years, there's no horse sections in bookstores. Even Clive Barker, you don't just find him in the horror section. You'll find him in like fantasy or whatever. Yeah, most fiction or something ever since I think Robert Bloch died. It was a death of horror.

21:54:42 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, he loved Grue too. We sent him copies. And he always sent us nice responses, like thoughtfully considering our issues.

21:54:48 Shane Bugbee: Robert Bloch.

21:54:49 Peter Gilmore: Yeah.

21:54:49 Shane Bugbee: Oh, that's cool.

21:54:50 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, Rob Bloch is a really cool guy, and a really sweet guy to meet and talk to, too.Yeah, you know, really, when people like him are gone. And you know, Richard Matheson is really not producing anything. And you know, the old the good old folks are really not out there doing stuff. And and the people that are out there are coins of dark fantasy or something like that. And the real gutsy horor needs to be revised. And it will, it will happen in a way, it'll definitely come back and be marketable again. But you know, that there's that always goes up and down. It's really it got flooded, unfortunately. And there was a lot of real crap being published by the major publishing houses, is that sort of good old boy network of authors that we wouldn't even see at the conventions. And a lot of stuff was just getting out there that really was kind of mediocre. And there seemed to have been an audience backlash, that there was just so much stuff that really wasn't up to a high level that people said, you know, horor seems to suck. So they stopped buying it. And then they change the name of what was out there being published in the heart of dark fantasy, and then tried to find a new market, and it just isn't so big. Shane Bugbee: Oh, that's cool.

21:54:50 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, Rob Bloch is a really cool guy, and a really sweet guy to meet and talk to, too.Yeah, you know, really, when people like him are gone. And you know, Richard Matheson is really not producing anything. And you know, the old the good old folks are really not out there doing stuff. And and the people that are out there are coins of dark fantasy or something like that. And the real gutsy horor needs to be revised. And it will, it will happen in a way, it'll definitely come back and be marketable again. But you know, that there's that always goes up and down. It's really it got flooded, unfortunately. And there was a lot of real crap being published by the major publishing houses, is that sort of good old boy network of authors that we wouldn't even see at the conventions. And a lot of stuff was just getting out there that really was kind of mediocre. And there seemed to have been an audience backlash, that there was just so much stuff that really wasn't up to a high level that people said, you know, horor seems to suck. So they stopped buying it. And then they change the name of what was out there being published in the heart of dark fantasy, and then tried to find a new market, and it just isn't so big.

21:55:51 Amy Bugbee: It was like every book was in a small New England town.

21:55:55 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, well, you know, people got really derivative. And again, you know, like, if you look at somebody like Richard Matheson, who really created so much of what Stephen King did, if you read I Am Legend, which is really the sort of commonplace horror in the contemporary world and Robert Bloch as well, that these people really did something that that again, like became massively selling under people like Stephen King, and Dean Koons, and you know, they made millions of dollars, or the people who really set the standard for it, like, never got that kind of recognition. And which is always the way things work. There's always a popularizer there's somebody who's the original thinker, and then somebody popularizes it I mean, look at look at windows out there, that absolutely lousy OS, and that's what everybody has, whereas their superior ones out there, but they're not so widespread.

21:56:41 Doug Misicko: Well, the Necronomicon, wasn't that a poorly hacked piece of shit? Please tell us you didn't take any of that seriously.

21:56:47 Peter Gilmore: Oh, you mean, sign the Necronomicon?

21:56:51 Doug Misicko: Oh, one they made up in the 70s. Just to see if they could.

21:56:54 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one, I have a whole thing about it on the website. I actually talked to Herman Slater, who was in on the creation of that, and it was basically meant to take advantage of people who thought it was real. The idea was that everybody kept coming into a occult saying, "I want the Necronomicon". So they thought, well, we can wack something together, we'll sell it and people will buy it. And they did you know, Avon published as a mass paperback after the original leather bound, hardcover that looked really wonderful. And they made a fortune.

21:57:23 Doug Misicko: I can respect them doing that. I just can't respect people buying it.

21:57:26 Peter Gilmore: Oh, well, the people buying it are idiots. You know, people, that's why I have that set. The whole thing about it on the website, people like oh, I read the Necronomicon. And I'm like, "Well, if you think that's a valid book, then you're an idiot." But the whole point is, if you like the rituals, in the Necronomicon you know, you don't believe in them. But if you've liked the trappings in there, they certainly can useful to you, like anything can be you know, any anything can work towards your own ritualization. If it turns you on in some way, if it's a stimulus, that doesn't matter, that it has any kind of reality because all the gods are fantasy. You know, in ritual, you can call the names of any gods that exist or any ones you want to make up. Any ones from fiction because they're all equally fictional. So that's its only validity is if it stimulates you, you can use it, but don't believe it's real.

21:58:08 Doug Misicko: So, as I was saying earlier this morning. It's part of the magician's protocol or whatever, to be able to draw things even from fiction that's labeled as fiction. And not just the fiction it's labeled as fact, like a lot of the occultic things written in people don't understand about Alastair Crowley. He took his idea for the abbia flamer and all the rest of it from Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel.

21:58:33 Peter Gilmore: Right, right.

21:58:33 Doug Misicko: And yet you see hacks like Nicholas Schreck writing how Crowley understood and LaVey took from fiction.

21:58:42 Peter Gilmore: Well, you know, you can't deal with mystical constipated people like that.They're really never gonna see what reality is. And the axes that they're grinding are many. So...

21:58:53 Doug Misicko: I just don't understand how this guy can consider himself a legitimate magician, where he's completely discounted anything he could have gotten from any fictional work when of course, a fictional work to be effective, has to be evocative towards towards your psyche or your your own reality.

21:59:12 Peter Gilmore: Exactly. We're dealing with somebody who isn't evocative and is the the epitome of anti charisma. So it should be obvious first like that thinks that way.

21:59:23 Doug Misicko: That's right.

21:59:27 Shane Bugbee: Well, Peter, we're gonna let you go, I think here.

21:59:32 Peter Gilmore: Okay.

21:59:35 Shane Bugbee: I wanted to ask you one more. A couple more questions, though. Real quick, black metal, any preferences?

21:59:43 Peter Gilmore: I don't listen to it.

21:59:44 Shane Bugbee: None of it, huh?

21:59:45 Peter Gilmore: None of it. The only music I listened to is orchestral music. And it's usually, and some chamber music, but basically, from Beethoven on and contemporary film scores, that's the stuff I listened to, it's the stuff I like.

21:59:59 Shane Bugbee: How's your, is your CD out yet?

Hour 23

22:00:01 Peter Gilmore: It should be very soon that the the serenity for humanity CD should be coming back from the manufacturer. Like any day now.

22:00:09 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, the cover arts really nice.

22:00:11 Peter Gilmore: Yeah. Steve Kavner did a brilliant job. Yeah. It's subtle. And again, evocative as you said before, isn't it which is something that you want that I hope that people will enjoy the music. It was stuff that was used in the death scenes movie. And I brought it back to its original stage, before it was edited into the film, and remixed it. So I think it'll people be hearing it differently than they did from those soundtracks. Shane Bugbee: Yeah, the cover arts really nice.

22:00:11 Peter Gilmore: Yeah. Steve Kavner did a brilliant job. Yeah. It's subtle. And again, evocative as you said before, isn't it which is something that you want that I hope that people will enjoy the music. It was stuff that was used in the death scenes movie. And I brought it back to its original stage, before it was edited into the film, and remixed it. So I think it'll people be hearing it differently than they did from those soundtracks.

22:00:36 Shane Bugbee: So you did the score for the death scene movies?

22:00:38 Peter Gilmore: Two and three. Yeah.

22:00:40 Shane Bugbee: I thought LaVey did that stuff.

22:00:41 Peter Gilmore: No, he did the narration for the first one.

22:00:44 Shane Bugbee: Right, I remember that.

22:00:45 Peter Gilmore: Yeah. But that's the second, the second and third, the music. And those two mostly is mine. Like there was some source music as well. But that was my stuff.

22:00:54 Shane Bugbee: Where do you see Satanism in the next, let's say, 10 or 20 years?

22:00:58 Peter Gilmore: In 10 or 20 years, it'll be more deeply entrenched. I think that it will still seem dangerous to a lot of people. And that's a good thing. But it will also be something that more intelligent folks will find acceptable, that they will see it and will say that is an alternative that I can embrace. Because it's a label that is still stimulating, and not something that is going to destroy their own connection with the real world that they're trying to conquer. It'll keep expanding. I'm certain of that.

22:01:35 Shane Bugbee: Excellent. You guys anything anything? In closing?

22:01:38 Amy Bugbee: How long till we have a satanic president, do you think?

22:01:42 Peter Gilmore: Well, we had some in the past that were rather satanic.

22:01:45 Shane Bugbee: Bill Clinton was pretty goddamn satanic.

22:01:47 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, well, look at Teddy Roosevelt. You know, look at our history, we've had some people that had some very satanic inclinations, we will continue to see that the people who are in power, on some level are using satanic principles they have to because to rule the world, we have the basic understanding of how it works. So they may be flying under different banners. But the ones who really control things and understand things, they will be satanic on some level, or what will happen is they'll be manipulated by people who are satanic, who use them as puppets, which has often happened in the past of world rulers. There you go. Shane Bugbee: Bill Clinton was pretty goddamn satanic.

22:01:47 Peter Gilmore: Yeah, well, look at Teddy Roosevelt. You know, look at our history, we've had some people that had some very satanic inclinations, we will continue to see that the people who are in power, on some level are using satanic principles they have to because to rule the world, we have the basic understanding of how it works. So they may be flying under different banners. But the ones who really control things and understand things, they will be satanic on some level, or what will happen is they'll be manipulated by people who are satanic, who use them as puppets, which has often happened in the past of world rulers. There you go.

22:02:25 Amy Bugbee: Well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk with us today.

22:02:28 Peter Gilmore: It's been an absolute pleasure.

22:02:29 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, Peter, this was great. Thanks a lot, man.

22:02:31 Peter Gilmore: You're welcome. And I hope that you completely kick ass with selling the books.

22:02:35 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, me too.

22:02:36 Doug Misicko: Thank you very much.

22:02:38 Peter Gilmore: Okay.

22:02:38 Shane Bugbee: Again, thanks a lot Peter.

22:02:40 Peter Gilmore: You're very welcome. Have a wonderful rest of your evening.

22:02:42 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, and you know, stick around for 30 seconds listeners broad because you just got to hear a little bit of this nice black metal music.

22:02:48 Peter Gilmore: Okay.

22:02:50 Shane Bugbee: Talk to you later, man.

22:02:51 Peter Gilmore: Bye, bye.

22:02:56 Shane Bugbee: All right, you pussies. I'm so tired.

22:13:15 Shane Bugbee: Hello? All right. That was a nice chat with Peter Gilmore huh?

22:13:19 Amy Bugbee: It was getting a little incoherent but yeah...

22:13:21 Shane Bugbee: We've been up a long time. But the good thing is we have our good friend Rick from usurper in the studio.

22:13:28 Rick Scythe: Hey.

22:13:29 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, man. It's been a long time, huh?

22:13:32 Rick Scythe: Fuck yeah, Shane. Good hanging out again. And...

22:13:35 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

22:13:35 Rick Scythe: Having a glass of wine.

22:13:36 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, I was drinking now. Let's hear the glasses gingle a little, come on Doug. Yeah, so what you guys are just listening to was you Usurper they just broke up and Rick's in here looking for a new band. Na, I'm just fuckin' with ya. So Rick what's going on with this new record man? What do you think of the book Might is Right have you ever checked it out? What do you think you guys are...

22:14:01 Rick Scythe: Gotta take a copy home with me tonight.

22:14:03 Shane Bugbee: You guys are fighters.

22:14:05 Rick Scythe: Fuck yeah man we always go against fucking you know there's a lot of people who are real PC and seem to fuck with us a lot and we just don't take any shit. And for that reason, we get a lot of different labels and and, you know, we're just here to fucking kick ass playing metal you know?

22:14:27 Amy Bugbee: So you said like, you just got back from a tour?

22:14:30 Rick Scythe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we went on tour with the band from Norway called Enslave.

22:14:35 Shane Bugbee: You've toured with Cradle of Filth?

22:14:37 Rick Scythe: Yeah.

22:14:38 Shane Bugbee: Manowar?

22:14:38 Rick Scythe: Yeah. Dark funeral.

22:14:41 Shane Bugbee: Dark funeral. Great band.

22:14:42 Amy Bugbee: Don't forget that tour.

22:14:43 Rick Scythe: Yeah, Shane set up the first show.

22:14:46 Shane Bugbee: The hell ride.

22:14:47 Rick Scythe: Yeah. Fuck Yeah, man.

22:14:49 Shane Bugbee: I set the first tour.

22:14:51 Rick Scythe: The first show Expo the Extreme was the kickoff show.

22:14:54 Shane Bugbee: Usurper?

22:14:56 Rick Scythe: The first show of the dark funeral tour, yeah.

22:14:58 Shane Bugbee: That yeah, that was yeah.

22:15:00 Rick Scythe: That was you, man.

22:15:01 Shane Bugbee: Right, it was Usurper, Dark Funeral and somebody else...

22:15:03 Rick Scythe: ...supposed to be ashron Destroyer 666 but... Shane Bugbee: Right, it was Usurper, Dark Funeral and sombody else...

22:15:03 Rick Scythe: ...supposed to be ashron Destroyer 666 but...

22:15:05 Amy Bugbee: Oh right. Rick Scythe: ...supposed to be ashron Destroyer 666 but...

22:15:06 Amy Bugbee: Oh right.

22:15:06 Rick Scythe: Those guys all canceled for various reasons and so us and Dark Funeral piled in a van and ...

22:15:12 Shane Bugbee: Various reasons. Rick Scythe: Those guys all canceled for various reasons and so us and Dark Funeral piled in a van and ...

22:15:12 Shane Bugbee: Various reasons.

22:15:13 Rick Scythe: Yeah,totally.

22:15:13 Shane Bugbee: Various reasons, various.

22:15:15 Amy Bugbee: And Might is Right was on the tour with you, wasn't it?

22:15:18 Rick Scythe: It was it had the CDs of all the bands and Might is Right. It looked like it was his own CD and it was part of the poster. Beautiful satanic crusade poster. We have that up in our practice spot.

09:15:29 Shane Bugbee: Isn't that the best poster? Didn't, get plastered to many places.

22:15:33 Rick Scythe: Oh, it got plastered up a lot of places.

22:15:36 Shane Bugbee: It was called the satanic crusade.

22:15:38 Rick Scythe: Yeah, it was a good real cute little name.

22:15:41 Amy Bugbee: It brings it all full circle, here you are at the new printing of Might is Right.

22:15:46 Rick Scythe: Yeah, look at that. And the new Twilight Dominion album by Usurper out now.

22:15:51 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah. And your your website is Usurpur.us

22:15:54 Rick Scythe: Yeah, go there for all kinds of cool shit. You know, unless you're totally gay and not into metal and then you should be executed.

22:16:03 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. And these guys don't fuck around. It's old school metal fucking denim leather spikes. Weapon tree.

22:16:12 Amy Bugbee: Do you ask for a 13 year old someone to chat with?

22:16:19 Shane Bugbee: I've seen the guys in Usurpur they had blood on a dripping off of their pants.

22:16:24 Rick Scythe: Real blood though, not fake is from spikes banging and heads banging into spikes being on little stages and stuff.

22:16:30 Shane Bugbee: No ass raping?

22:16:31 Rick Scythe: No ass raping. Unfortunately.

22:16:33 Shane Bugbee: Unfortunately? What's wrong? You don't, know rape is just rape. No fucking, it's unfortunate for the other person. So you're saying you're not a rapist at heart?

22:16:42 Rick Scythe: No, no, I'm not a rapist.

22:16:44 Shane Bugbee: You're a lover. Not a rapist?

22:16:45 Rick Scythe: I wouldn't say a lover. Say this kind of trippy guy hanging out. Listening to metal.

22:16:54 Shane Bugbee: Shit, man. I've known you guys since you guys were the dead youth or do not admit that.

22:16:58 Rick Scythe: Well, couple of us were you know?

22:17:00 Shane Bugbee: Well, yeah, you guys were and then. But you I've known you got What? How long was that? 15 years?

22:17:05 Rick Scythe: Yeah, maybe 16 years.

22:17:07 Shane Bugbee: Oh, we were actually young at one

22:17:08 Rick Scythe: Hey, Usurper's been going on for 12 years now exclusively. And a lot of tourists put out a lot albums and ya' know?

22:17:15 Amy Bugbee: How many albums?

22:17:17 Rick Scythe: Five full length albums and then...

22:17:19 Shane Bugbee: Five albums, six labels.

22:17:22 Rick Scythe: But three different labels. Yeah. So...

22:17:25 Shane Bugbee: Are you happy with Eric, or?

22:17:27 Rick Scythe: So far I guess, as happy as it could be with the label? label's a label. I mean, bottom line is they want to make money obviously. And you know, we want to get our album out. It's you know, kind of got to work together on to whatever level you're on. And they've had a good roster over the years. And it's cool to be part of I suppose.

22:17:45 Shane Bugbee: Tell me about a little bit about Twilight Dominion. What's the what are the songs about man?

22:17:50 Rick Scythe: Oh yeah, yeah, all kinds of you know, werewolf stories, UFO tales, right? Fucking you know, conspiracies. All kinds of cool stuff. You know, if you really read into the lyrics and some people you know, just want to listen to it and head bang and then that's our whole audience is just purely in heavy metal.

22:18:10 Shane Bugbee: Dave is your original drummer?

22:18:11 Rick Scythe: He's He's gone now.

22:18:13 Shane Bugbee: Oh, good, huh? No, he was I knew him from Funeral Nation.

22:18:17 Rick Scythe: He was in Funeral Nation is a good guy and he's a good guy. You know, it's just it's time has come...

22:18:22 Shane Bugbee: You got the original lineup, huh?

22:18:24 Rick Scythe: Yeah, yeah, pretty much Yeah, we do. Actually. We got the new get new guitarist in the band, new second guitar.

22:18:29 Shane Bugbee: The memory I have from you guys playing the first expos. You you got a drummer, just so he can be our flyer bitch so you guys can play the show.

22:18:36 Rick Scythe: Yeah picking up Mortis from the airport and all that stuff. Yeah, he's a crazy guy from Michigan ...

22:18:44 Amy Bugbee: and and he drank like, like Rick Scythe: Yeah picking up Mortis from the airport and all that stuff. Yeah, he's a crazy guy from Michigan ...

22:18:44 Amy Bugbee: and and he drank like, like

22:18:48 Rick Scythe: drank even more than the rest of us. Well, I don't know about that. But yeah, he, he drank that. That was the best part of his personality came from the bottom of a bottle. You know? He was pretty lame if he wasn't drinking.

22:18:59 Amy Bugbee: He was nuts.

22:19:02 Rick Scythe: Before he goes on stage, na he literally looks there is that...

22:19:07 Shane Bugbee: Question read the question, Amy.

22:19:09 Amy Bugbee: Um, does your vocalist do any warm ups before he goes on stage?

22:19:13 Rick Scythe: Na, he smoked so much weed it's unbelievable, drinks at least a case of beer before he goes on stage. That's the only way you can really perform some people alcohol fucks up their performance, for him, if he's well he fucks up no matter what but if he's completely wasted that's when he fucks up the least I guess. Amy Bugbee: Um, does your vocalist do any warm ups before he goes on stage?

22:19:13 Rick Scythe: Na, he smoked so much weed it's unbelievable, drinks at least a case of beer before he goes on stage. That's the only way you can really perform some people alcohol fucks up their performance, for him, if he's well he fucks up no matter what but if he's completely wasted that's when he fucks up the least I guess.

22:19:33 Lance Bugbee: I guess that is a warm up then.

22:19:35 Rick Scythe: What?

22:19:35 Lance Bugbee: I guess that's his own warm up.

22:19:37 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, talking to the mic. Talking into the mic bitch.

22:19:42 Lance Bugbee: I guess that is a warm up then.

22:19:45 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's Lance. My brother. He's been hanging out. He was here praying to Satan when Peter gumbo was on the on the line. What do you think about Satan?

22:19:57 Rick Scythe: Satan is Satan is the original heavy metal guy.

22:20:02 Shane Bugbee: Right What would have metal be without saying?

22:20:04 Rick Scythe: Yeah, you know, but I mean everyone just does their own thing that's that's the coolest idea if that's what works for somebody, you know, being a Satanist or whatever, that's cool. The only problems get into is when you get these fundamentalist assholes whether it's Christian or Muslim or whatever piece of shit you know, group gets together and tries to force their opinion down your throat that's when you know Hey, man, everyone just does their own fucking thing. And that's cool, but unfortunately there's a lot of people who think like if you don't think like them, then you got to fuck with everyone else. Yeah to give them the Iron Fist you know? Shane Bugbee: Right What would have metal be without saying?

22:20:04 Rick Scythe: Yeah, you know, but I mean everyone just does their own thing that's that's the coolest idea if that's what works for somebody, you know, being a Satanist or whatever, that's cool. The only problems get into is when you get these fundamentalist assholes whether it's Christian or Muslim or whatever piece of shit you know, group gets together and tries to force their opinion down your throat that's when you know Hey, man, everyone just does their own fucking thing. And that's cool, but unfortunately there's a lot of people who think like if you don't think like them, then you got to fuck with everyone else. Yeah to give them the Iron Fist you know?

22:20:40 Shane Bugbee: I was at the tour man or man fucking metal Gods.

22:20:43 Rick Scythe: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely man. I mean you know?

22:20:47 Shane Bugbee: I mean they are all mine is right yeah all the time, swords and mental.

22:20:51 Rick Scythe: Complete fucking metal and that's what it's about and that's what a lot these kids don't understand, they think metal has to do with rap and has to do with you know all kinds of bullshit like that and it doesn't .

22:21:01 Shane Bugbee: There's no niggers in metal. Oh!

22:21:04 Rick Scythe: You know, hey, you know i mean if someone's black and into metal like Katyn from Hyrax is a totally cool fucking guy. You know, metal is about about unioning with your brother's thing in a way listening to metal you know, not caring what the mainstream people think or what that kind of music is all about. Because, you know, metal is supposed to be underground and it's supposed to be tryumphant and killing fucking posers and shit like that.

22:21:27 Shane Bugbee: Exactly.

22:21:30 Amy Bugbee: They do the iron fist. I do the butter fist.

22:21:33 Shane Bugbee: Whoa. You don't want to know about Amy's butter fist, buddy. She'll stretch you out. Amy'll stretch ya out. I've seen her do it.

22:21:42 Doug Misicko: Can't hold my mud.

22:21:44 Shane Bugbee: Doug cannot hold his mud. Hey, Rick. I don't think Doug likes metal.

22:21:49 Rick Scythe: Oh, that's okay, man.

22:21:50 Shane Bugbee: I think we're gonna have to take a corkscrew to his other eye.

22:21:54 Rick Scythe: I mean, you got to do what you got to do. To convert people in the metal you know? Oh, that's cool man.

22:22:02 Doug Misicko: Some metals all right. Cradle of Filthy had that screaming shit in the background a bit too much in some parts.

22:22:07 Shane Bugbee: You just heard Usurper what 'd you think?

22:22:09 Doug Misicko: I wasn't listening.

22:22:10 Shane Bugbee: Man, what a bitch.

22:22:11 Doug Misicko: I can only do one thing at a time, drawing pictures in these books for people.

22:22:16 Shane Bugbee: Turn and run.

22:22:17 Doug Misicko: It's a little late in the day for me. If I'm drawing a picture. That's all I'm doing. I'm not listening to what's playing.

22:22:24 Shane Bugbee: Oh, you listen. You're listening. He's just afraid to tell you what he thinks he's gonna wait till you leave.

22:22:30 Doug Misicko: It's great. Great music. I love it.

22:22:34 Rick Scythe: Okay, kick ass.

22:22:36 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, man. So who? What's up? What's up? For you guys? What are you doing next?

22:22:41 Rick Scythe: Man? We're just got the whole original lineup back. And we're just working on the set when the tour Europe in 2004. Again. Yeah. And then probably just work on the new album. Probably play a couple shows in Chicago, which is really do it the right way.

22:22:56 Shane Bugbee: Right on man. Are you making any money at this?

22:22:59 Rick Scythe: No. Depends what you call making money. I mean...

22:23:02 Shane Bugbee: Working at a job? You got to work a straight job too.

22:23:07 Rick Scythe: Yeah, I guess I haven't really worked a full time regular jobs since 1998.

22:23:12 Shane Bugbee: Right on.

22:23:12 Rick Scythe: You know, because it just gets in the way too much with metal you got to find other ways to kind of survive.

22:23:17 Shane Bugbee: Fuck, you're seeing the world.

22:23:19 Rick Scythe: Yeah, that's what it's all about. Man. There's some shit. You know, Money can't buy. Shane Bugbee: Fuck, you're seeing the world.

22:23:19 Rick Scythe: Yeah, that's what it's all about. Man. There's some shit. You know, Money can't buy.

22:23:22 Shane Bugbee: Shit, when I first saw the dead youth play it fetches man, you guys were little fucking kids.

22:23:29 Rick Scythe: Yeah, I'm 15 years old.

22:23:30 Shane Bugbee: They were 15 years old. They're playing five G's packing the place. And now their touring the world.

22:23:35 Rick Scythe: More than 30 year old.

22:23:37 Shane Bugbee: They were that's the shit, man.

22:23:39 Rick Scythe: So yeah, and we haven't stopped drinking. Yeah, yeah, it's great. They let you bring your own alcohol in, free videogames over there and I don't know how they got away with it. Well, you know it eventually closed down. You know killed man. I mean, that's what it's all about drinking and playing video games for free you know, they had tried that, like a doorbell connected to it... Shane Bugbee: They were that's the shit, man.

22:23:39 Rick Scythe: So yeah, and we haven't stopped drinking. Yeah, yeah, it's great. They let you bring your own alcohol in, free videogames over there and I don't know how they got away with it. Well, you know it eventually closed down. You know killed man. I mean, that's what it's all about drinking and playing video games for free you know, they had tried that, like a doorbell connected to it...

22:24:01 Shane Bugbee: And it was free?

22:24:02 Rick Scythe: But yes fucking It was a dream. You can't fucking beat it.

22:24:05 Shane Bugbee: You're underage you can bring beer in there just bringing a brown paper bag and drink away and get fucked up and listen to metal and

22:24:11 Doug Misicko: I'll cut out your fucking eye, if you keep it up.

22:24:13 Shane Bugbee: Oh you're seeing things. Doug's seeing things. Doug has his pants off. He just ran into the mic and

22:24:22 Rick Scythe: King Diamond is Slayer, King Diamond actually somebody is writing about worst of all king diamond is

22:24:27 Shane Bugbee: Well Slayers the all time best. Right? Yeah, tell me tell me right. I said this the other night or Vincent Crowley and Amy said well he said venom first but I said fuck venom. I'm down with venom. No, no, it's like but Slayer dominates bro.

22:24:43 Rick Scythe: Well, Slayer? Yeah, definitely. They're great. Celtic Frost. Venom.

22:24:47 Shane Bugbee: Slayer is the best metal band ever. Ever. Well, that's what I think.

22:24:52 Rick Scythe: Anybody who could write Rain of Blood I say got a strong argument there.

22:24:55 Shane Bugbee: their that's their last good album. I mean, they had fucking consistent good shit up until then. South of Heaven was okay, but I mean, not that good. Rick Scythe: Anybody who could write Rain of Blood I say got a strong argument there.

22:24:55 Shane Bugbee: their that's their last good album. I mean, they had fucking consistent good shit up until then. South of Heaven was okay, but I mean, not that good.

22:25:04 Rick Scythe: Frost?

22:25:05 Shane Bugbee: No, South of Heaven. Slayer.

22:25:07 Rick Scythe: I haven't. South of Heaven was good. It's better now when I listened to...

22:25:09 Shane Bugbee: It was like a downslide.

22:25:10 Rick Scythe: Yeah, when I when I first came out, I gotta be honest, I was kind of disappointed to be such a big I loved Hallowaves and then rain of blood came out and just annihilated everything and everyone is trying to copy off it.

22:25:20 Shane Bugbee: Amy, you know I married Amy I walk into a room biggest Slayer fan in the world. Rick Scythe: Yeah, when I when I first came out, I gotta be honest, I was kind of disappointed to be such a big I loved Hallowaves and then rain of blood came out and just annihilated everything and everyone is trying to copy off it.

22:25:20 Shane Bugbee: Amy, you know I married Amy I walk into a room biggest Slayer fan in the world.

22:25:24 Rick Scythe: Kick ass.

22:25:25 Shane Bugbee: ...and she said fucking South the Heaven's for fags and I was like, goddamn you're hardcore!

22:25:32 Rick Scythe: Yeah I like South of Heaven now, when I was when it came out you know? I wasn't too crazy. Man that kind of went out.

22:25:39 Amy Bugbee: Compare to music that's coming out today so if I haven't was pretty darn good but at the time it was a disappointment especially after raining blood.

22:25:46 Shane Bugbee: Raining blood you're not going to top, it's the best metal album ever.

22:25:49 Amy Bugbee: It is. It's the best metal album ever.

22:25:51 Shane Bugbee: Oh, you agree with me?

22:25:52 Amy Bugbee: I never disagree with you, raining blood is the best metal album that ever came out.

22:25:56 Shane Bugbee: ...and Slayer is the best metal band ever.

22:25:58 Amy Bugbee: Venom I think is equal to Slayer if you add it all up.

22:26:02 Shane Bugbee: They are not they're not they're not.

22:26:04 Rick Scythe: Aw, see... Venom was great though. I mean if you think about 1976 when they formed I mean

22:26:12 Shane Bugbee: Okay, I had all the CDs here. We were able to read all the songs. We would see that you'd like more there'd be more Slayer songs that'd knock you down.

22:26:20 Rick Scythe: I love venom though. I mean...

22:26:21 Shane Bugbee: I love Venom too, it's a rough choice. I dig what you're saying. I love Venom too. I love them.

22:26:28 Rick Scythe: Yeah, yeah.

22:26:28 Shane Bugbee: I'm saying Slayer beats them and the reason I'm saying that is to cause since I want I'm telling you there's facts and Slayer will dominate them if you put track to track CD and CD Venom didn't do that much. Oh Venom put out some really bad shit. How about Cronos his solo shit's horrible man.

22:26:45 Rick Scythe: Dancing under fire? Come on me. No, no seriously.

22:26:49 Amy Bugbee: Okay, well then you got to compare it what what are you going to compare Dave Lombardo is banned or some such thing.

22:26:54 Shane Bugbee: He's not in Slayer, he's gone.

22:26:56 Rick Scythe: Seriously Shane though if...

22:26:59 Shane Bugbee: God Hates Us All came out on 9-11. Freaky...

22:27:02 Rick Scythe: Yeah right if Venom, didn't originate with that you know you got to think what Slyder what direction they might have went in.

22:27:10 Shane Bugbee: Oh, I don't need to think about that the guy first made ice cream probably made it like shit now it's in fucking excellent. You know the first guy pack the Polish sausage and I know you like the sausage man.

22:27:19 Rick Scythe: I'm from Chicago. Fuck yeah, man.

22:27:22 Shane Bugbee: The first guy made polish sausage, I'm gonna bet he didn't have it down like he did today. I'm not saying Venom's influences...

22:27:28 Rick Scythe: ...guys about Krisiun. Shane Bugbee: The first guy made polish sausage, I'm gonna bet he didn't have it down like he did today. I'm not saying Venom's influences...

22:27:28 Rick Scythe: ...guys about Krisiun.

22:27:31 Shane Bugbee: Who?

22:27:32 Amy Bugbee: ...on the chat.

22:27:33 Shane Bugbee: Ask the question, Amy.

22:27:35 Amy Bugbee: On the chat room it says can you please ask them about Krisiun.

22:27:38 Rick Scythe: Krisiun is awesome they're from Brazil.

22:27:41 Shane Bugbee: Really?

22:27:41 Rick Scythe: Super fucking fast but heavy as fuck and yeah, they're great.

22:27:47 Shane Bugbee: Like grindcore?

22:27:48 Rick Scythe: Yeah but like still totally metal you know? The hardcore influence in it so let's yeah kicks ass man.

22:27:57 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, keep asking yes questions off there. There's some people

22:28:05 Amy Bugbee: They are saying Tom Araya is a Christian.

22:28:10 Shane Bugbee: Fucking listen to Raining Blood, motherfucker. You're gonna see Satan come out of your wife asshole. Okay, motherfucker.

22:28:15 Amy Bugbee: Rich has gotten delirious.

22:28:17 Shane Bugbee: I don't give a fuck what do you think about Tom Araya he can be a Rob Halford. I don't give a fuck Slayer dominant. Raining blood's the best metal album ever and Slayer is the best metal band ever and I'll put it fucking down next to venom and I'm...

22:28:31 Amy Bugbee: If my turntable was working and don't make me whip my Venom boxset out on you motherfucker.

22:28:37 Shane Bugbee: Whoa.

22:28:41 Lance Bugbee: Any plans plan with them again? If you've ever played with them before?

22:28:44 Rick Scythe: Who Slayer? No, we never played with them. I love that. Definitely do it to me. Who knows, you know, got lucky and got on tours of man of war and that was fucking great.

22:28:56 Shane Bugbee: I'm putting the music underneath we're playing your whole record.

22:28:59 Rick Scythe: Oh cool man all right.

22:29:01 Shane Bugbee: A little bit of force metal into these you know i think that the Satanists hanging out there in you know Christian death or something fucking industrial crap or some goth crap. Rick Scythe: Oh cool man all right.

22:29:01 Shane Bugbee: A little bit of force metal into these you know i think that the Satanists hanging out there in you know Christian death or something fucking industrial crap or some goth crap.

22:29:17 Rick Scythe: Christian death, we shared a bus with Christian Deah.

22:29:19 Shane Bugbee: You guys and this goddamn goth tour, you booed off stage?

22:29:24 Rick Scythe: No, no the opposite, shit about Christian Death they're a good band but it was more of a metal croud. Shane Bugbee: You guys and this goddamn goth tour, you booed off stage?

22:29:24 Rick Scythe: No, no the opposite, shit about Christian Death they're a good band but it was more of a metal croud.

22:29:31 Shane Bugbee: Well you know we had Ross...

22:29:32 Amy Bugbee: There's not one original member of Christian Death it's like some...

22:29:37 Shane Bugbee: Ross played his last show for us man.

22:29:41 Amy Bugbee: Christian death hasn't had an original member in 10 years.

22:29:45 Shane Bugbee: You got to talk in the mic and you ask him what you're saying.

22:29:48 Amy Bugbee: I said Christian Death hasn't had an original member and more than 10 years it's like a bunch of people that like just went and bought the band.

22:29:54 Shane Bugbee: It's a cool name.

22:29:57 Amy Bugbee: Pull out my Venom boxset we'll match Slayer, bitch, song for song.

22:30:01 Rick Scythe: actually King Diamond...

22:30:02 Shane Bugbee: I'll do this later. We'll do this some othertime. I will I would love to see it because I'm down with, I love Slayer.

22:30:09 Rick Scythe: Did you hear our last album Necro Nemesis at all?

22:30:12 Shane Bugbee: No.

22:30:12 Rick Scythe: King Diamond sang on that.

22:30:14 Shane Bugbee: You're fucking kidding me, dude.

22:30:15 Rick Scythe: I should have brought it in. Yeah, I think backing vocals on the title track.

22:30:18 Shane Bugbee: How the fuck did you...

22:30:19 Rick Scythe: He was in the studio with us. And I actually got to give him a review of lyrics that I wrote for the song. And he was totally cool about it. And he said he never really sang anyone else's lyrics before except the Ripper by Judas.

22:30:31 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, he's cool, man.

22:30:32 Rick Scythe: Yeah, it's totally fucking cool. And he did it. And it sounds fucking great.

22:30:36 Shane Bugbee: You still got that mustache?

22:30:37 Rick Scythe: Yeah, he's wearing a baseball bat.

22:30:41 Amy Bugbee: They want to know if you're gonna play with Krisiun again, not Slayer. Damn, Shane.

22:30:46 Rick Scythe: Oh, yeah. Krisiun...

22:30:47 Shane Bugbee: [yelling]

22:30:51 Rick Scythe: We'll definitely play with crazy and you know what it is? frosted and underground metal so much. Tourists get on it. And the biggest misconception i think is that there's some big ugly rivalries between bands and it's not like that when you're on tour with other bands. You know, you find a way you know, there's like a common brotherhood...

22:31:11 Shane Bugbee: ...trying to survive.

22:31:12 Rick Scythe: Yeah, you know, and it's not you know, you're touring with bands is really a metal in their blood and not rap or any other bullshit. And, you know, you get along with these people and they're the same way no matter where they live, you know, either smoking some weed or drinking beers thing in your head to heavy metal and that's what it's all about. And that's what I want more people. Oh, sorry, man...

22:31:33 Shane Bugbee: I'm just saying...

22:31:34 Rick Scythe: You're fading out now.

22:31:35 Shane Bugbee: We all are.

22:31:37 Rick Scythe: Yeah.

22:31:37 Amy Bugbee: [coughing]

22:31:39 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's what you get for distance Slayer.

22:31:41 Amy Bugbee: I haven't dissed Slayer. You fuck.

22:31:44 Shane Bugbee: Let me tell you.

22:31:44 Amy Bugbee: Don't make me give you the butter fist.

22:31:46 Shane Bugbee: You won't be able to honey. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. You had been there and you want to know so? Venom's for old fucks. When I grew up, every concert I went to all I heard was Slayer Slayer Slayer. Slayer. I don't hear that fucking Venom. My uncle said Venom. He's bald. He's all [unintelligable] Venom. Venom. Amy Bugbee: Don't make me give you the butter fist.

22:31:46 Shane Bugbee: You won't be able to honey. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. You had been there and you want to know so? Venom's for old fucks. When I grew up, every concert I went to all I heard was Slayer Slayer Slayer. Slayer. I don't hear that fucking Venom. My uncle said Venom. He's bald. He's all [unintelligable] Venom. Venom.

22:32:17 Rick Scythe: Great man. I love that...

22:32:20 Amy Bugbee: Slayer are equal, that's all I'm saying.

22:32:22 Shane Bugbee: They are not equal. Slayer's touring today!

22:32:30 Rick Scythe: Ask another interesting question. Hey, if T-Bone's listening now, email something in, man.

22:32:39 Shane Bugbee: T-bone, is that George Costanza?

22:32:42 Rick Scythe: Yeah! That one's hilarious, man.

22:32:49 Shane Bugbee: You like Seinfeld?

22:32:49 Rick Scythe: I love Seinfeld, one of the funniest shows ever made, man. George George is knocking down to the old ladies and little kids go run out of the apartment. Remember that when you thought it was on fire? And it's just the hamburgers burning?

22:33:04 Shane Bugbee: Oh yeah.

22:33:05 Rick Scythe: I love that man.

22:33:09 Shane Bugbee: Seinfeld is the shit, Seinfeld and Simpson.

22:33:11 Rick Scythe: Oh fuck yeah, man.

22:33:12 Shane Bugbee: I watch it. Watch it...

22:33:15 Rick Scythe: They're the only shows I watch, man.

22:33:16 Amy Bugbee: Every single day.

22:33:19 Rick Scythe: See Simpsons today? With Tom Savini on it...

22:33:22 Amy Bugbee: We've been on the air... Rick Scythe: See Simpsons today? With Tom Savini on it...

22:33:22 Amy Bugbee: We've been on the air...

22:33:24 Shane Bugbee: ...for 24 hours.

22:33:25 Rick Scythe: Oh, I thought yeah, how about...

22:33:29 Amy Bugbee: Oh, yes. Slayer is gonna be in Chicago on the 29th, I saw that earlier. See. Bill M says my memorable quote. Rick Scythe: Oh, I thought yeah, how about...

22:33:29 Amy Bugbee: Oh, yes. Slayer is gonna be in Chicago on the 29th, I saw that earlier. See. Bill M says my memorable quote.

22:33:37 Shane Bugbee: What?

22:33:38 Amy Bugbee: I didn't diss Slayer. Don't make me use butter fist.

22:33:42 Shane Bugbee: I don't give a fuck about your quote. I don't give a fuck about Bill M. Okay?

22:33:47 Amy Bugbee: Oh...

22:33:48 Shane Bugbee: How's that for a quote, Bill M?

22:33:51 Amy Bugbee: Maybe you need to go have a BM.

22:33:55 Shane Bugbee: Don't start.

22:33:55 Rick Scythe: Most new metal sucks...

22:33:57 Shane Bugbee: If I really have to give a memorable quote ,everyone's gonna start crying.

22:34:05 ...Nu metal, how old the guy on the computer 60 years old? "I hate all new nu metal. Only Judas Priest."

22:34:12 Rick Scythe: Most nu metal sucks, in fact all nu metal sucks.

22:34:16 Shane Bugbee: Now, he say that to you.

22:34:17 Amy Bugbee: Bands like Rob Zombie? C'mon. Rick what's happening to you? Rob Zombie? That's not metal.

22:34:31 Shane Bugbee: Oh man...

22:34:32 Amy Bugbee: Rick is more delirious than we are.

22:34:34 Rick Scythe: Can we open this other bottle of wine?

22:34:35 Amy Bugbee: Yes, I was just gonna say open.

22:34:38 Shane Bugbee: Open red wine.

22:34:39 Amy Bugbee: Open it.

22:34:45 Shane Bugbee: What good are you without a guitar you have the chords for your. fucking open the wine .

22:34:49 Rick Scythe: Shane, why didn't you have Usurper in here? Play a set...

22:34:53 Shane Bugbee: Why didn't ya' offer man? We would have did that. Let's do it man, fucking right.

22:34:59 Rick Scythe: We'll be completely wasted though.

22:35:02 Shane Bugbee: Let's do it man.

22:35:02 Rick Scythe: Okay...

22:35:04 Shane Bugbee: Around Halloween?

22:35:06 Rick Scythe: Let me see what I think a couple of guys are going out of town around halloween.

22:35:09 Shane Bugbee: ...or whatever. somewhere around there November, early November.

22:35:11 Rick Scythe: Yeah, let's definitely do it man. Shane Bugbee: ...or whatever. somewhere around there November, early November.

22:35:12 Shane Bugbee: Yeah man. Rick Scythe: Yeah, let's definitely do it man. Shane Bugbee: ...or whatever. somewhere around there November, early November.

22:35:12 Rick Scythe: Yeah, let's definitely do it man. Shane Bugbee: Yeah man.

22:35:14 Rick Scythe: Yeah, let's definitely do it man.

22:35:15 Rick Scythe: e'll bring the equipment in here and...

22:35:19 Shane Bugbee: Blast the fucking windows out.

22:35:20 Rick Scythe: You watch?

22:35:23 Amy Bugbee: Who didn't see Slayer, Motorhead, and Overkill the Aragon when they were in high school?

22:35:27 Shane Bugbee: Yeah pussy!

22:35:29 Amy Bugbee: I saw that show too.

22:35:31 Rick Scythe: I saw Slayer... Overkill and Nitro opening number that era.

22:35:34 Shane Bugbee: Oh yeah.

22:35:35 Rick Scythe: First Raining Blood tour of '86.

22:35:37 Amy Bugbee: I saw that too.

22:35:38 Shane Bugbee: Let me tell you Amy is the biggest Slayer fan.

22:35:41 Amy Bugbee: I love Slayer.

22:35:42 Shane Bugbee: I know. I know.

22:35:42 Amy Bugbee: I sold those guys coke.

22:35:48 Shane Bugbee: When you play we'll get the cocaine.

22:35:51 Rick Scythe: You want to hear us play real fast...

22:35:53 Shane Bugbee: You know what tonight we're gonna kill...

22:35:54 Amy Bugbee: Doug Doug

22:35:56 Shane Bugbee: Doug's in the basement killing hookers in the name of Radio Free Satan. He does it for Radio Free Satan he's killing fucking nigger bitches in the basement after he rapes their ass. Doug quit killing the hookers.

22:36:11 Doug Misicko: I'm drawing pictures for our people and it's about love. It's not about hate...

22:36:16 Shane Bugbee: White Zombie, what?

22:36:17 Amy Bugbee: I was so bummed that my turntable broke halfway through today because I was gonna play, speaking of white zombie, I was gonna play a band called toxic reasons. You remember the span from? Well I remember...

22:36:31 Shane Bugbee: Well, that's what I'm saying, you missed them by a year.

22:36:33 Amy Bugbee: I remember seeing white zombie open for toxic reasons on Halloween and club dreamers.

22:36:40 Shane Bugbee: Isn't Rob Zombie a Jew? I think we're gonna have to send Tom that's gonna go talk to Rob Zombie about his big fucking Jew nose.

22:36:48 Rick Scythe: ...greens from Exodus. Shane Bugbee: Isn't Rob Zombie a Jew? I think we're gonna have to send Tom that's gonna go talk to Rob Zombie about his big fucking Jew nose.

22:36:48 Rick Scythe: ...greens from Exodus.

22:36:53 Shane Bugbee: Exodus sucks.

22:36:54 Rick Scythe: Smelly Wilbur bought greens from Exodus.

22:36:57 Shane Bugbee: Exodus had one class Exodus had one good album and then they sucked after that. Because they're doing the toxic waltz.

22:37:07 Rick Scythe: Yeah, that was gay man.

22:37:08 Shane Bugbee: That's right.

22:37:08 Rick Scythe: Only with Paul Baloff...

22:37:10 Shane Bugbee: Thats why I can't even bring up Celtic Frost's name because of cherry rose...whatever...

22:37:13 Rick Scythe: Oh, yeah. No, I totally. And you want to know something about Tom Warrior? He was gonna sing on our second album skeletal season. I talked to him. He gave me his home phone number and this is the truth and everything was cool like the fan he likes talking on this cool shit. And then all of a sudden we lost contact with him and he started talking shit about us in our chat magazine saying that we're Celtic cross rip off and he was saying the exact opposite thing and the guy that's a true sign of being a poser even though more of a tails is probably my favorite album of all time. But still for somebody to to go like that and if you read Are you more of it his book some contradicting statements he made in there.

22:37:52 Shane Bugbee: He sucks for doing that fucking shit. You know once you sell out, you're done.

22:37:55 Rick Scythe: Okay, well read it then.

22:37:57 Amy Bugbee: Usurpers in tour with Dimmu Borgir and come to my area.

22:38:01 Rick Scythe: Kick Ass actually with Dimmu Borgir... the drummer ,Nick. That's how we met Craig...

22:38:06 Shane Bugbee: Nick is an ass rapist.

22:38:08 Rick Scythe: He's a cool guy. That's how we met Cradle of Filth. Yeah, the drummer and he said he'd bought their album and and you know he was disappointed that Dave was in the band I think cuz he like our original drummer. But now the original lineup is back. Who knows? Maybe we will...

22:38:22 Shane Bugbee: I had the displeasure of picking Cradle of Filth up from the airport once and I was playing 50s music in the car. And the guy goes, What the fuck is this shit. I thought how am I gonna get the fuck out and walk motherfucker. He's like, holy shit and I go, he goes what man you playing this old man music can I go get the fuck out. And that bald guy started laughing and said What's his name? Nick. Come on, dude. Okay, we're losing it.

22:38:49 Rick Scythe: Cradle filth is all right. Hey, they were clean guys. Some guys said Cradle of Filth is all right yeah they were totally cool with us.

22:38:56 Shane Bugbee: That's not what he told us off the air.

22:38:57 Rick Scythe: Hey I didn't say nothing...

22:38:59 Shane Bugbee: Dude, you told me Danny was rubbing your your thigh when you passed out and then you woke up...

22:39:02 Rick Scythe: Not my inner thigh, ok? No comment there.

22:39:16 Shane Bugbee: So how's everything else going? What's going on with metal... What's that Midwest Medel is that...

22:39:19 Rick Scythe: English Metal, that guy T-bone knows some of it. [yelling] ...funniest fucking Shows of All Time. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, Midwest metal still going. He said Shane, thanks for all the good times that we had together in the backseat of this car. Shane Bugbee: So how's everything else going? What's going on with metal... What's that Midwest Medel is that...

22:39:19 Rick Scythe: English Metal, that guy T-bone knows some of it. [yelling] ...funniest fucking Shows of All Time. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, Midwest metal still going. He said Shane, thanks for all the good times that we had together in the backseat of this car.

22:39:45 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that bitch you know...

22:39:52 Lance Bugbee: All right, what bands would you say? What are main influences and what have you been listening to...

22:39:56 Rick Scythe: Besides from Slayer,he said Shane so don't get mad at me if I don't mention em because he specifically said not to mention Slayer. Lance Bugbee: All right, what bands would you say? What are main influences and what have you been listening to...

22:39:56 Rick Scythe: Besides from Slayer,he said Shane so don't get mad at me if I don't mention em because he specifically said not to mention Slayer.

22:40:02 Shane Bugbee: I'm holding a corkscrew and a knife and... Rick Scythe: Besides from Slayer,he said Shane so don't get mad at me if I don't mention em because he specifically said not to mention Slayer.

22:40:02 Shane Bugbee: I'm holding a corkscrew and a knife and...

22:40:06 Rick Scythe: You know no matter what Shane says Venom was a big influence. King Diamond was...

22:40:11 Shane Bugbee: Say better than Slayer.

22:40:13 Rick Scythe: He's holding the knife up to me so I can say it...

22:40:14 Shane Bugbee: No say it out of your mouth, by your own heart, by your metal heart say Venom is better than Slayer. Rick Scythe: He's holding the knife up to me so I can say it...

22:40:14 Shane Bugbee: No say it out of your mouth, by your own heart, by your metal heart say Venom is better than Slayer.

22:40:18 Rick Scythe: I won't say Venom is better than Slayer.

22:40:20 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. You can't say it. There is no equality. There is no equality. No one is equal.

22:40:31 Rick Scythe: Like Venom, Celtic Frost you know bands that play real heavy metal.

22:40:34 Shane Bugbee: You can't say that Venom is better than Celtic Frost, out of your mouth.

22:40:38 Rick Scythe: Na, I like you know it's hard for me... look at this, this guy's totally loves Venom.

22:40:47 Amy Bugbee: Forget about Celtic Frost, what about Hellhammer?

22:40:50 Rick Scythe: Oh yeah. Hellhammer was great. Remember the Hellhammer's Bloody Pussies? Remember that song? Fucking great. How could you not love Morbid Angel and you know, well, they reinvented they kind of took off for a Slayer left off. I think when authors amandus came out. It should have been like the next album after Raining Blood.

22:41:14 Shane Bugbee: That's interesting. What do you think about, I'm going to ask you a couple things, two things. Electric Hellfire Club and genitori

22:41:23 Rick Scythe: Electric Hellfire Club, I only have one album by them, the purple metallic logo whats taht album called? Shane Bugbee: That's interesting. What do you think about, I'm going to ask you a couple things, two things. Electric Hellfire Club and genitori

22:41:23 Rick Scythe: Electric Hellfire Club, I only have one album by them, the purple metallic logo whats taht album called?

22:41:32 Shane Bugbee: I'm a big gay fag. Looking to suck at nigger dick, a gay fag.

22:41:39 Rick Scythe: I can't remember I remember is good for industrial dance music I guess.

22:41:43 Shane Bugbee: Well you do a lot of dancing right?

22:41:45 Rick Scythe: To much yeah. My john travolta costume is out in the car, actually... Stryper? Okay, somebody is trying to be funny.

22:41:55 Shane Bugbee: Now we'll cut your fucking head off bitch.

22:41:57 Rick Scythe: Stryper kicked ass.

22:42:00 Shane Bugbee: Oh now, we got a sample that...

22:42:02 Rick Scythe: This is Rick from Usurper saying Stryper kicks ass. Black-mailing...

22:42:21 Shane Bugbee: Let's face it, the best metal band ever. Hey, Rick. Rick the best metal band ever today. Over Slayer and Venom is Great White because they're the ones that kill the most posers. With one swoop motherfuck, they took them down!

22:42:39 Rick Scythe: Yeah...and Shane wouldn't let us use pyro at Expo extreme. We could have been as famous as Great White. Shane Bugbee: Let's face it, the best metal band ever. Hey, Rick. Rick the best metal band ever today. Over Slayer and Venom is Great White because they're the ones that kill the most posers. With one swoop motherfuck, they took them down!

22:42:39 Rick Scythe: Yeah...and Shane wouldn't let us use pyro at Expo extreme. We could have been as famous as Great White.

22:42:45 Shane Bugbee: I didn't let you use it?

22:42:46 Rick Scythe: Na, remember our idiot drummer was going aroud bragging... that was you Shane, but that's okay. I don't hold you responsible. I hope that drummer, this time...

22:42:55 Shane Bugbee: Buddy, let me tell you. Real motherfucking metal motherfuckers, punk rockers, GG Allen, they don't get stopped. GG Allen says "Can I shit and throw it at the audience?" and you say no when it comes out there with shit... Rick Scythe: Na, remember our idiot drummer was going aroud bragging... that was you Shane, but that's okay. I don't hold you responsible. I hope that drummer, this time...

22:42:55 Shane Bugbee: Buddy, let me tell you. Real motherfucking metal motherfuckers, punk rockers, GG Allen, they don't get stopped. GG Allen says "Can I shit and throw it at the audience?" and you say no when it comes out there with shit...

22:43:06 Rick Scythe: Yeah!

22:43:07 Shane Bugbee: You guys should have just did it like I told that drummer.

22:43:09 Rick Scythe: Your right.

22:43:10 Shane Bugbee: And you don't Mortis did? Mortis came out there? They took all this shit. And they said I'm lighting my fuckin' hand on fire. And I'm like holy fuck I'm telling him and he goes, Mortis to say it's like I'm burning this bitch down. I'll burn it down, and I'm like telling these guys, this is the religion of church burning. These motherfuckers are serious. Mortis is gonna, he had his hand in the shit he's gonna light his hand of fire. Rick Scythe: Your right.

22:43:10 Shane Bugbee: And you don't Mortis did? Mortis came out there? They took all this shit. And they said I'm lighting my fuckin' hand on fire. And I'm like holy fuck I'm telling him and he goes, Mortis to say it's like I'm burning this bitch down. I'll burn it down, and I'm like telling these guys, this is the religion of church burning. These motherfuckers are serious. Mortis is gonna, he had his hand in the shit he's gonna light his hand of fire.

22:43:32 Rick Scythe: We wanted to light our drummer on fire actually.

22:43:37 Shane Bugbee: Well you should. You know what, now Usurper as a... Rick Scythe: We wanted to light our drummer on fire actually.

22:43:37 Shane Bugbee: Well you should. You know what, now Usurper as a...

22:43:40 Like metal...

22:43:42 You ass...

22:43:42 Rick Scythe: I didn't ask. I wasn't even there. I showed up five minutes before went on. He was the idiot that was there...

22:43:47 Shane Bugbee: You gotta know just in the business, you got to know it wasn't me.

22:43:52 Rick Scythe: Shane, everyone in Usurper loves you ,man.

22:43:54 Shane Bugbee: Yeah but you know.

22:43:55 Rick Scythe: No, no hard feelings, whatsoever.

22:43:57 Shane Bugbee: Bro that's not but that's not my choice, I'm getting stressed from when we got our whole life savings...

22:44:06 Amy Bugbee: It was a wink wink nudge nudge don't use the pyro, man.

22:44:10 Rick Scythe: That's okay man Shane will make it up to you. We'll we'll do, when we play in here we're gonna use full Pyro.

22:44:19 Amy Bugbee: Know how many bands breathe fire that burns, plus a band who kill the chicken...

22:44:24 Rick Scythe: Yeah I know.

22:44:25 Shane Bugbee: Everyone but Usurper...

22:44:26 Rick Scythe: We look gay, yeah.

22:44:29 Amy Bugbee: You guys stood out more for not doing it.

22:44:30 Rick Scythe: Yeah we're making a stance man.

22:44:33 Shane Bugbee: I'm sorry about that stuff, shit things happen.

22:44:36 Rick Scythe: Shane we don't care man. You think we care about that.

22:44:40 Shane Bugbee: Cops comming and fire departments comming and that... Rick Scythe: Shane we don't care man. You think we care about that.

22:44:40 Shane Bugbee: Cops comming and fire departments comming and that...

22:44:43 Rick Scythe: John our bassist lit some girl's hair on fire, in Florence, Italy and she didn't even know it. Her hair was going up like a candle and she she didn't even know it and she's sitting there head banging and then all sudden people begin slamming her head so fucking funny man.

22:44:57 Shane Bugbee: Let me tell you the bassist from Usurper, he fuck that girl from impotent sea snakes?

22:45:03 Rick Scythe: No, no comment.

22:45:03 Shane Bugbee: No comment. Okay?

22:45:04 Rick Scythe: No, comment. Bunch of happily married men in Usurper. Shane Bugbee: No comment. Okay?

22:45:04 Rick Scythe: No, comment. Bunch of happily married men in Usurper.

22:45:07 Shane Bugbee: Oh, hey, I'm sorry. Oh...

22:45:09 Rick Scythe: Except one and he's gay. And I won't tell you which one.

22:45:12 Shane Bugbee: We know, we're looking at him.

22:45:14 Rick Scythe: You motherfucker. Only with you Shane.

22:45:19 Shane Bugbee: Oh!

22:45:19 Amy Bugbee: We have no issues with the gay heavy metal society in Chicago.

22:45:25 Shane Bugbee: That's how you really be extreme these days. You're gay heavy metal. Black velvet painting of Rob Helford hanging up.

22:45:32 Amy Bugbee: No, the gay heavy metal Society of Chicago. They used to have meetings at Berlin, yeah. What are they gonna do, bring him out on a walker. Shane Bugbee: That's how you really be extreme these days. You're gay heavy metal. Black velvet painting of Rob Helford hanging up.

22:45:32 Amy Bugbee: No, the gay heavy metal Society of Chicago. They used to have meetings at Berlin, yeah. What are they gonna do, bring him out on a walker.

22:45:47 Shane Bugbee: Oh. Rob Halford is cool man.

22:45:50 Rick Scythe: He kicks ass dude.

22:45:52 Shane Bugbee: Are you kidding? He was in flight, he doesn't go to the old route he went young man...

22:45:59 Rick Scythe: He invented heavy metal and he's always you know been playing heavy metal and that's fucking cool. That's That's what I mean is heavy metals more than just fucking you know? It's easy to stereotype everyone there's long hair idiot alcoholic so there's always people that don't quite fit in that category that are still totally heavy metal.

22:46:17 Amy Bugbee: Did I bring that Judas Priest CD in here today?

22:46:20 Shane Bugbee: One can hope.

22:46:22 Amy Bugbee: I'll go get it.

22:46:22 Shane Bugbee: No, I don't. The one that's in the bin? No CD either.

22:46:27 Rick Scythe: Hatebreed sucks ass.

22:46:30 Shane Bugbee: Hatebreed sucks ass? You know that?

22:46:33 Doug Misicko: I never even heard of em...

22:46:34 Shane Bugbee: Saw them with Cradle of Filth?

22:46:36 Rick Scythe: I never even saw em. Go to www.usurper.us.

22:46:53 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, man to pick up this new CD. Or fucking pay this price.

22:46:57 Rick Scythe: Yeah, how about it Shane. Make em buy it, man.

22:46:59 Shane Bugbee: We know. We know you motherfuckers are, we tracking everyone. We're like fucking the record industry.

22:47:07 Rick Scythe: That make a great bumper sticker.

22:47:11 Shane Bugbee: Listen, we're gonna ... We're gonna have free downloads of the Usurper album all night long. All day long. Tomorrow all week. Free downloads.

22:47:20 Rick Scythe: Thanks Shane.

22:47:23 Shane Bugbee: How do you feel about that shit with a 12 year old pay two grand to the record..

22:47:26 Rick Scythe: Good stick it to him. No, I mean, I mean...

22:47:29 Shane Bugbee: What do you think about that? Rick Scythe: Good stick it to him. No, I mean, I mean...

22:47:29 Shane Bugbee: What do you think about that?

22:47:30 Rick Scythe: I think actually, you know, the record industry has to find a way to like even encrypt the CDs or something. So you can't do that. I mean, it is fucking stealing but you can't blame somebody for for wanting to fucking hear it. Hey, it's there right in front of them. It's like laying out $100 on a countertop. I mean, how are you going to take somebody from taking that?

22:47:48 Shane Bugbee: So it's the industry's responsibilaty?

22:47:50 Rick Scythe: I think so. And I'm glad though for one thing, it's gonna force the industry to you know cost about $1 to to make a CD. It's gonna force the record industry. I mean, look at all these places that went out of business like Tower and all this bullshit. Charging 19 bucks for a goddamn piece of plastic like that. And it shouldn't be because the fans still they're charging 19 for that the band's still lucky to see $1 from that. So fuck it the label should be selling these things for five bucks...

22:48:16 Shane Bugbee: And you should have a choice what you want to give away for free as a satanist or some shit like that.

22:48:20 Rick Scythe: I think if anything is going to force the labels to make the packaging a lot better. You know cool packaging, cool interactive stuff, and make the price a lot cheaper. That's what I think and they should find a way to encrypt it and you know keep everyone honest because yeah, the label's fucking sticking it to people so long. You can't blame people for wanting to steal it.

22:48:38 Shane Bugbee: You're right. It's their responsibility. That's what I saw heard about all these lawsuits. I'm like, fuckin invest that money with that you're spending on lawyers to get on the technology man.

22:48:49 Amy Bugbee: Come on I made tapes and gave it to friends compilation tapes andfriends made compilation tapes for me. Songs I like I find the band ... I don't see anything wrong with that.

22:49:06 Shane Bugbee: Angelica, you pussy. I can smell it from here.

22:49:07 Rick Scythe: Yeah, I mean I can see both sides of the coin because what's with the computer now? I mean it's so instant everyone's would get it anyone who wants their hands on it.

22:49:14 Shane Bugbee: The new mayhem live and repeates or whatever. It's not new, but I just was looking for some mayhem. my fucking god. I was like, Wow, that's cool.

22:49:23 Amy Bugbee: Stop crunching in the microphone.

22:49:27 Shane Bugbee: Let's cut open his fucking cut open his fucking windpipe and see how he crunches.

22:49:32 Rick Scythe: And now the people like read...

22:49:33 Doug Misicko: That one that's already been done.

22:49:35 Rick Scythe: ...the reason? album sales.

22:49:42 Shane Bugbee: Hello.

22:49:44 Rick Scythe: That's funny. But you know, hey, that's cool. I mean, if somebody could do that, but I think a lot of these kids don't even care about the packaging and the artwork and the lyrics, which is kind of retarded to me. I mean, you grew up in the age of having vinyl records now. Nothing. I'm looking at the ardwork. Reading the lyrics.

22:50:00 Shane Bugbee: I don't know, I've never liked vinyl. I'm a surprise. Amy loves vinyl. She's a vinyl devotee. But me I'm a slob I take... throw things around now...

22:50:17 Rick Scythe: My Usurper Twilight Dominian CD...

22:50:19 Doug Misicko: It's personalized, lil bit of a drawing in it. Rick Scythe: My Usurper Twilight Dominian CD...

22:50:19 Doug Misicko: It's personalized, lil bit of a drawing in it.

22:50:22 Shane Bugbee: Oh!

22:50:22 Rick Scythe: Yeah, I have that same on the boxset.

22:50:25 Shane Bugbee: Kiss it.

22:50:28 Rick Scythe: ...boxset. I'll do something else on it. [laughter] Read something else interesting.

22:50:40 Lance Bugbee: Marilyn Manson Anti-christ Superstar?

22:50:44 Shane Bugbee: I don't really know too much about Marilyn Manson. So...

22:50:47 Lance Bugbee: He's alright...

22:50:51 Shane Bugbee: Marilyn Manson, let me tell ya... Hold on. Hold on. I'm gonna tell you a secret. Marilyn Manson. Let me tell you what he did for Shane. And all the stuff, the evil I do. Marilyn Manson gave me a nice VIP backstage pass plastic laminate. And I use that to my advantage. I brought my bootleg in front and he videotaped the shit. Well we got busted by his tour manager, they brings us downstairs Marilyn Manson hands me that video and tells me the bootleg it. So this Them in Chicago CD you see all over the fucking world. That's from me and Marilyn Manson gave it to me and said use the money for really fucked up stuff.

22:51:27 Rick Scythe: Hey, cool man.

22:51:27 Shane Bugbee: I thought that was really cool. Same with Slipknot. Slipknot gave me a comic book just because they liked the books I wrote. And they will... you know slip... That means a lot. I mean, that's something. I mean, then that ultimately goes somewhere you know...

22:51:39 Rick Scythe: I think that it's the way you know heavy metal people take care of each other.

22:51:43 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, yeah...

22:51:43 Rick Scythe: ...and that's that's a true brotherhood of being into heavy metal.

22:51:46 Shane Bugbee: I didn't keep the money and buy a house with that. I've put it back into like an expo or some shit like that.

22:51:51 Lance Bugbee: What do we tune to? What's that mean?

22:51:53 Rick Scythe: Oh, their asking what we tune... we tune to D a lot of times, sometimes we tuned all the way down to B or C, but usually it's right around D. We never tune to much higher than that. But every song is kind of different and you kind of kind of feel of what the song calls for.

22:52:10 Lance Bugbee: I guess thats your answer.

22:52:13 Shane Bugbee: The answer is you're my bitch.

22:52:15 Lance Bugbee: Slipknot gets ass raped by GWAR.

22:52:19 Shane Bugbee: GWAR sucks man.

22:52:21 Amy Bugbee: What, are they in walkers?

22:52:22 Shane Bugbee: Let me tell you, GWAR sold out when they quit using the shit that died your skin for a fucking week. I went and saw GWAR at the cubby bear and I walked out blood and then she didn't wash out of my skin for a fucking week and now they use water with like pink. Let's not...

22:52:38 Amy Bugbee: The final straw was when they got rid of Slymenstra...

22:52:43 Shane Bugbee: That's true though. That is the final straw but they sold out when they quit using the real good ship love it fucking died.

22:52:48 Amy Bugbee: I remember that day when they got naked and hal... on Halloween that one year.

22:52:52 Shane Bugbee: Did we go that show together?

22:52:54 Amy Bugbee: No. I didn't know you then.

22:52:58 Shane Bugbee: You knew me and you were following me around.

22:53:00 Rick Scythe: Yeah, sometimes we do.

22:53:01 Shane Bugbee: You're the stalker.

22:53:02 Lance Bugbee: ...you always got to have a backup.

22:53:05 Rick Scythe: Backup...

22:53:14 Shane Bugbee: Doug. Doug wants to go to bed.

22:53:17 Doug Misicko: Doug's bored.

22:53:18 Amy Bugbee: Your girlfriend is still missing she...

22:53:22 Shane Bugbee: She's decided to join the basketball team. She's on tour with the...

22:53:29 Amy Bugbee: Chicago Bulls?

22:53:31 Lance Bugbee: The new DVS rocks...

22:53:33 Amy Bugbee: I don't know what that is...

22:53:34 Rick Scythe: No one knows what DVS is, it has kind of a rap sound to it...

22:53:38 Shane Bugbee: Relax, smelly Wilbur.

22:53:42 Rick Scythe: Smelly Wilbur, we all want to know what DVS is.

22:53:51 Lance Bugbee: That's not the way to get a question answered.

22:53:54 Rick Scythe: I don't know Shane, that DVS it's those initials like that kind of sound more like rent or something.

22:54:00 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, fucking homos. DVS is for homos.

22:54:04 Amy Bugbee: I saw at Ripley's Believe It or Not? recently...

22:54:19 Shane Bugbee: [burp]

22:54:19 Amy Bugbee: ...because people color their words so that they're cooler.

22:54:22 Shane Bugbee: They are so cool, you know they dress in nice clothes... Amy Bugbee: ...because people color their words so that they're cooler.

22:54:22 Shane Bugbee: They are so cool, you know they dress in nice clothes...

22:54:24 Yeah, I've never even been [unintelligable] store in my life. Shane Bugbee: They are so cool, you know they dress in nice clothes...

22:54:24 Yeah, I've never even been [unintelligable] store in my life.

22:54:27 See, goth/satanist when I'm younger, I go, I'm never fitting because I don't have the money to buy the fucking threads. Okay, and the motherfuckers you know that's what I think about them. They all got the clothes man. They got the fucking jewelry nothing else. Yeah, I've never even been [unintelligable] store in my life.

22:54:27 See, goth/satanist when I'm younger, I go, I'm never fitting because I don't have the money to buy the fucking threads. Okay, and the motherfuckers you know that's what I think about them. They all got the clothes man. They got the fucking jewelry nothing else.

22:54:42 Rick Scythe: A rocky experience, lets say.

22:54:44 Amy Bugbee: Thats DVS.

22:54:44 Rick Scythe: Oh, I never even heard em. I don't know what that is.

22:54:49 Shane Bugbee: How about DSL? Bass-fuckin-riffs.

22:54:56 Lance Bugbee: Everything goes better with beer.

22:54:58 Rick Scythe: The DSLs are always coming handy.

22:55:00 Shane Bugbee: Exactly. Quit talking about GWAR for fucking idiots. It's not metal, man. It's fucking like Sesame Street for fucking mental patients.

22:55:15 Amy Bugbee: For the senior citizens home.

22:55:16 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, you fucking dickhead.

22:55:19 Lance Bugbee: ...Boyd Rice...

22:55:22 Shane Bugbee: Who gives a fuck? I feel like. Boyd Rice is an old has-been, and Thomas Thorne is a drunken fucking losers, gonna be on the fucking streets begging for coins, those bitches. They're both my bitches.

22:55:35 Rick Scythe: Hey, Shane. So you want to have Usurper in here, some day?

22:55:37 Shane Bugbee: Yeah man, I would. Rick Scythe: Hey, Shane. So you want to have Usurper in here, some day?

22:55:37 Shane Bugbee: Yeah man, I would.

22:55:40 Rick Scythe: Yeah, probably like November sometime.

22:55:41 Shane Bugbee: ...end of October, early November bro.

22:55:43 Rick Scythe: Might be work to handle. We'll definitely do it, man. Shane Bugbee: ...end of October, early November bro.

22:55:43 Rick Scythe: Might be work to handle. We'll definitely do it, man.

22:55:46 Shane Bugbee: Don't fucking blow me off, man.

22:55:47 Rick Scythe: Did I blow you off today?

22:55:49 Shane Bugbee: No. Almost.

22:55:50 Rick Scythe: Almost?

22:55:51 Shane Bugbee: You know you motherfucking lie. You know what? I'm gonna give you the liying, cheating satanist award of the day. Because I'm gonna tell you something. I say be here at noon. Every bitch say "I can't come..." everyone wants to do eight o'clock. Everyone. Everyone said eight o'clock. So everyone in the morning blow us off and when you blow us off, but you call and say, "Oh, computer's broke.... Can I come in at eight o'clock?" Yes, come in. I see you're here. Late night when you're not supposed to be? Not at noon. Rick Scythe: Almost?

22:55:51 Shane Bugbee: You know you motherfucking lie. You know what? I'm gonna give you the liying, cheating satanist award of the day. Because I'm gonna tell you something. I say be here at noon. Every bitch say "I can't come..." everyone wants to do eight o'clock. Everyone. Everyone said eight o'clock. So everyone in the morning blow us off and when you blow us off, but you call and say, "Oh, computer's broke.... Can I come in at eight o'clock?" Yes, come in. I see you're here. Late night when you're not supposed to be? Not at noon.

22:56:16 Rick Scythe: Shane. I couldn't come at noon anyway, I don't get up until one o'clock. I assumed this is a nighttime... I didn't know.

22:56:23 Shane Bugbee: You didn't blow me off. I'm just fucking with you.

22:56:24 Amy Bugbee: You should of hear the call he put into your label this morning.

22:56:27 Shane Bugbee: Shit, dude.

22:56:28 Rick Scythe: Would you be willing to air it?

22:56:29 Shane Bugbee: Your the only.. Oh yeah, I told him. Oh, yeah, called Eric. I said where's my fucking CD motherfucker? Rick Scythe: Would you be willing to air it?

22:56:29 Shane Bugbee: Your the only.. Oh yeah, I told him. Oh, yeah, called Eric. I said where's my fucking CD motherfucker?

22:56:33 Rick Scythe: Never sent it... Shane Bugbee: Your the only.. Oh yeah, I told him. Oh, yeah, called Eric. I said where's my fucking CD motherfucker?

22:56:33 Rick Scythe: Never sent it...

22:56:34 Shane Bugbee: And he goes "oh, the guys out to lunch." I go, "You must be 700 pound. Well, fuck, you can't call me back." And the guy goes, "What's gonna happen?" I go listen, "I'm gonna go and I'm gonna break Rick's fuckin' legs.

22:56:44 Rick Scythe: I came in, I told you I was.

22:56:46 Shane Bugbee: No, I know. No, you are. You straight up, man. I mean...

22:56:50 Rick Scythe: Cheers

22:56:51 Shane Bugbee: Cheers to motherfucking metal. Metal forever. No fucking bullshit.

22:56:56 Rick Scythe: Totally, man.

22:56:58 Shane Bugbee: This is a metal room. There's one there's one metal outcast. Right now.

22:57:04 Rick Scythe: Thats a Stryper song? Alright!

22:57:08 Shane Bugbee: There's only one non-metal head, here. And you notice he's missing an eye.

22:57:15 Amy Bugbee: We don't do joke bands.

22:57:16 Rick Scythe: Doesn't have the beer belly. See?

22:57:18 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, this is metal, baby.

22:57:19 Rick Scythe: It's Chicago metal, that's not just any metal. Bay Area twisted metal. It's Chicago metal, man. Carniverous, beer dringking metal. Cheers. And we're drinking wine, not beer. So I mean it might sound a little fruity. And then I get to drive home. That's gonna be fun, so let's take out another bottle of wine. Shane Bugbee: Yeah, this is metal, baby.

22:57:20 Rick Scythe: It's Chicago metal, that's not just any metal. Bay Area twisted metal. It's Chicago metal, man. Carniverous, beer dringking metal. Cheers. And we're drinking wine, not beer. So I mean it might sound a little fruity. And then I get to drive home. That's gonna be fun, so let's take out another bottle of wine.

22:57:54 Shane Bugbee: Rocks being the last night for Christianity. Break out the wine. Break out the wine. Fuck that.

22:58:00 Rick Scythe: Where's that gatorade bottle?

22:58:02 Shane Bugbee: You gotta take a leak?

22:58:03 Rick Scythe: Yeah. [laughs]

22:58:05 Shane Bugbee: Hey, you know the funny thing is about this desk. It looks okay in here, huh?

22:58:09 Rick Scythe: Yeah, it looks pretty good.

22:58:10 Shane Bugbee: Check this out. I'm working the other day, typing away on the computer, fucking rat runs across the desk... Rick Scythe: Yeah, it looks pretty good.

22:58:10 Shane Bugbee: Check this out. I'm working the other day, typing away on the computer, fucking rat runs across the desk...

22:58:10 Rick Scythe: Working on the Penske file? Shane Bugbee: Check this out. I'm working the other day, typing away on the computer, fucking rat runs across the desk...

22:58:14 Rick Scythe: Working on the Penske file?

22:58:17 Shane Bugbee: I'm working on the Penske file. T-Bone comes in, fucking T-bone looking like Coco the monkey and the motherfucker rat runs across my desk.

22:58:25 Rick Scythe: Holy shit!

22:58:26 Shane Bugbee: I'm not kidding. Like small rat, baby rat, but big.

22:58:31 Lance Bugbee: The fuck is DVS?

22:58:33 Shane Bugbee: sucking the done bra

22:58:36 Lance Bugbee: Should an ugly girl blow me? Yeah, of course. Head is head.

22:58:42 Shane Bugbee: Wet warm hole. Wet warm hole. Wet warm hole.

22:58:45 Lance Bugbee: ...used to toss Bibles out into the audience.

22:58:48 Rick Scythe: Hey man, that's not the only...

22:58:49 Shane Bugbee: Usurper used to toss baby bodies out in the audience.

22:58:54 Lance Bugbee: Imagine going to a concert, being hit in the head with a fairly thick, hardcover book.

22:58:59 Rick Scythe: Yeah.

22:59:00 Shane Bugbee: Well, Usurper used to throw Christians out in the audience with a Bible stapled to their fucking head.

22:59:05 Rick Scythe: Yeah, they would be holding the Bible so technically we were throwing the Bible out in the audience.

22:59:09 Shane Bugbee: They were on fire, but...

22:59:12 Lance Bugbee: Pantera used to throw joints.

22:59:15 Shane Bugbee: Yo, Pantera... I'll tell you, they play the big ones and whenever. Phil's on the stage I'm sitting there smoking a splif, and he's like "Come on dude." smokes it, my zeplin I've had since I was 16, he smokes it and walks off ...like, I wasn't giving you that shit.

22:59:30 Rick Scythe: Though you were giving them a gift.

22:59:33 Shane Bugbee: You know, that's the problem with rock people. Guys on stage, think you're giving them a gift, I was given him a hit. That was the deal.

22:59:39 Rick Scythe: See. And that's the thing about heavy metal fans. You know, it's not about the...

22:59:47 Lance Bugbee: Cannibal horror feast is new music and it rocks.

22:59:50 Rick Scythe: I never heard it but sounds, I guess, pretty cool.

22:59:53 Lance Bugbee: They're like evil techno. Like is that like the six gates of hell or something?

22:59:59 Rick Scythe: I don't know man. Pretty much listen to heavy metal.

23:00:02 Lance Bugbee: Super joint ritual is fucking awesome.

23:00:04 Shane Bugbee: Six gays a hell, what?

23:00:05 Lance Bugbee: Six gays of hell?

23:00:07 Rick Scythe: Hey, ask him if anyone's gonna buy our new album.

23:00:09 Lance Bugbee: Who's gonna buy the new Usurper album?

23:00:11 Rick Scythe: We are poor metal heads. Lance Bugbee: Who's gonna buy the new Usurper album?

23:00:11 Shane Bugbee: Listen you buy the new Might is Right, you buy Might is Right, I don't mind burn you a copy this fuckin' CD. Rick Scythe: We are poor metal heads. Lance Bugbee: Who's gonna buy the new Usurper album?

Hour 24

23:00:11 Rick Scythe: We are poor metal heads. Shane Bugbee: Listen you buy the new Might is Right, you buy Might is Right, I don't mind burn you a copy this fuckin' CD.

23:00:19 Rick Scythe: We are poor metal heads.

23:00:20 Lance Bugbee: Pantera does suck.

23:00:23 Shane Bugbee: Na, Pantera's cool, man. Listen. Pantera took Shane Bugbee down... Shane. Pantera, we want you to come down to the show. What's gonna take? I go...

23:00:34 Lance Bugbee: Super Joint. Orange Goblin. Electric Wizard.

23:00:40 Shane Bugbee: Electric wizard's the shit.

23:00:41 Amy Bugbee: Ion fire.

23:00:42 Lance Bugbee: Phil's an asshole. What do you have to say about that? Shane?

23:00:45 Shane Bugbee: I don't give a fuck about Phil. I know that...

23:00:47 Amy Bugbee: Ion Fire?

23:00:49 Rick Scythe: Yeah, yeah, we saw him out in California when we're out there, going on tour. They're pretty cool.

23:00:55 Shane Bugbee: Phil wants your asshole, you fuck.

23:01:03 Amy Bugbee: ...chat room.

23:01:03 Rick Scythe: Who's gonna in the chat? See who's gonna illegally download our new album. As soon as you said illegally download our new album...

23:01:15 Shane Bugbee: Then let's illegally download usurpers new album.

23:01:19 Rick Scythe: Are you still playing it in the background?

23:01:21 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

23:01:21 Rick Scythe: Oh, ok.

23:01:23 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, just play the whole album. Once Rick leaves, we will play the whole album straight, just tape it. No, just stay there. Go in the stairway. C'mon, I'm on I'm teasing.

23:01:35 Lance Bugbee: All right.

23:01:38 Shane Bugbee: Dave. Lance Bugbee: All right.

23:01:38 Shane Bugbee: Dave.

23:01:38 Lance Bugbee: Oh...

23:01:39 Shane Bugbee: Jim.

23:01:39 Lance Bugbee: This guy hangs around Phil Anselmo.

23:01:42 Rick Scythe: What do you mean?

23:01:43 Lance Bugbee: Everytime I've been around Phil, he acts like an asshole.

23:01:46 Shane Bugbee: Phil's fucking getting [unintelligable]. Hey. Lance Bugbee: Everytime I've been around Phil, he acts like an asshole.

23:01:46 Shane Bugbee: Phil's fucking getting [unintelligable]. Hey.

23:01:57 Rick Scythe: I get asked me because they can't do...

23:02:04 Lance Bugbee: Metallica will even admit that the new shit sucks.

23:02:07 Amy Bugbee: You guys are playing rock, the same day Cliff Berton died. Lance Bugbee: Metallica will even admit that the new shit sucks.

23:02:07 Amy Bugbee: You guys are playing rock, the same day Cliff Berton died.

23:02:15 Lance Bugbee: Stop talking so loud. Fuck you, were are having a good time.

23:02:19 Rick Scythe: Smelly Wilbur doesn't like loud talking. Gotta take advice from smelly Wilbur. Lance Bugbee: Stop talking so loud. Fuck you, were are having a good time.

23:02:19 Rick Scythe: Smelly Wilbur doesn't like loud talking. Gotta take advice from smelly Wilbur.

23:02:26 What is his name? Smelly Wilbur?

23:02:28 Lance Bugbee: We already had Rob Halford's asshole.

23:02:29 Shane Bugbee: Smelly bitch ass hoe.

23:02:44 Unknown: [Chanting] Venom.

23:02:46 Rick Scythe: ... Alright, excellent. Stay off the sidewalks.

23:02:57 Lance Bugbee: Okay, we got the 40 of wine out.

23:03:03 Amy Bugbee: A gift from Uncle Joe.

23:03:05 Rick Scythe: Quit fucking up this illegal download.

23:03:06 Shane Bugbee: Your'e talking right over this shit. Hey, listen, you're getting to hear the whole album right now. And my sweet sexy voice. Rick Scythe: Quit fucking up this illegal download.

23:03:06 Shane Bugbee: Your'e talking right over this shit. Hey, listen, you're getting to hear the whole album right now. And my sweet sexy voice.

23:03:18 Amy Bugbee: Metalica was replaced by increasingly sucky clothes says "my gun is bigger".

23:03:24 Rick Scythe: Oh, ain't that funny. Chill out. Should be a funnier statement than that.

23:03:29 Shane Bugbee: Alright, let's tell the announcement. I'm taking over singer of the Usurpers.

23:03:34 Rick Scythe: Yeah, Shane is the new singer of the Usurpers.

23:03:42 Shane Bugbee: The Usurpers. Shane and the Usurpers.

23:03:46 Rick Scythe: Oh, what happened?

23:03:49 Shane Bugbee: What happened? Signed you out?

23:03:52 Rick Scythe: We got logged off somehow.

23:03:53 Shane Bugbee: What do you think Rick, my wife...my wife started a website. She's going by the handle whore of horror.

23:03:58 Rick Scythe: Whore of horror? That's pretty cool.

23:04:00 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that's cool. Sort of sets me up for bad jokes, but you think your wife's a whore? Your wife's a whore.

23:04:06 Rick Scythe: Take all the steam out of the jokes. Yeah, no shit. And then what could they say...

23:04:10 Shane Bugbee: Exactly say no shit. And they say exactly wanna see the photos?

23:04:17 Rick Scythe: Whore of horror. So, do you like Tom savini?

23:04:23 Amy Bugbee: Take them or leave them.

23:04:25 Shane Bugbee: You love them?

23:04:26 Rick Scythe: Yeah.

23:04:26 Shane Bugbee: You know something, I got in a fight with that guy. Not a fist fight. I'm at, I'm at a convention. I don't even give a fuck about him. But I saw Yeah, I know who he is. I don't care. But he treats some guy with like a nerdy outcast. Like a dickhead. And I walk up and I give him a bunch of grief. And I keep asking "Who are you?" And he goes "I'm Tom..." He says, I don't understand why. "Who are you? Who?" And he finally turns his back to me and reads the newspaper. Like some fucking outcast...

23:04:56 Rick Scythe: Thats not a metal way of treating someone, definitely. Hey, Shane. How about this. I was thinking usurper action figures.

23:05:02 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah man.

23:05:04 Rick Scythe: Yeah. Your the king of coming up with all this stuff, man. Come on some Usurper action figures? Yeah, the general, he said microphone one hand and a beer and the other hand. Like bong attachments.

23:05:17 Shane Bugbee: Definitely willing to talk about it. I'm always willing to talk about that shit. No. That sounds cool. Usurper action dolls.

23:05:30 Rick Scythe: Not a doll , action figure. Action doll sounds a little fruity.

23:05:34 Amy Bugbee: Have you seen Shane's Hitler doll?

23:05:35 Rick Scythe: Yeah, I did. I've seen that, 21st century toys makes it.

23:05:39 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

23:05:40 Rick Scythe: Yeah, they made the Misfits one. That's awesome. Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

23:05:40 Rick Scythe: Yeah, they made the Misfits one. That's awesome.

23:05:42 Shane Bugbee: What do you think helped them? Rick Scythe: Yeah, they made the Misfits one. That's awesome.

23:05:42 Shane Bugbee: What do you think helped them?

23:05:43 Rick Scythe: Well, it's so lowly and despicable no one else but Shane Bugbee could have done it. It kicks ass. No, it really does. And they were taken off the market so quick. I couldn't get my grubby hands on one.

23:05:56 Shane Bugbee: The Hitlers?

23:05:57 Rick Scythe: Yeah.

23:05:57 Shane Bugbee: I got one of the other room...

23:05:59 Rick Scythe: Yeah?

23:06:01 Shane Bugbee: Come by and play. You guys come down here, I'll get you one.

23:06:04 Rick Scythe: Oh, no shit. Really? Yeah. Hey everyone heard it?

23:06:06 Shane Bugbee: Listen, I'm not hooking up for Usurper, here.

23:06:08 Rick Scythe: Oh, no. Just me.

23:06:09 Shane Bugbee: I can get four but we're gonna have to have some porno action here, or something. You know we're gonna have to fuck the action figure. Rick Scythe: Oh, no. Just me.

23:06:09 Shane Bugbee: I can get four but we're gonna have to have some porno action here, or something. You know we're gonna have to fuck the action figure.

23:06:14 Rick Scythe: Well, how about one?

23:06:15 Shane Bugbee: Listen, your wives? We have to get them out here. We're gonna have do Usurper porno.

23:06:19 Amy Bugbee: Porno, porno, porno...

23:06:20 Shane Bugbee: Metal. Porno. Metal. Porno.

23:06:24 Rick Scythe: No no, I don't even consider it super really black metal we play kind of like in all forms of metal but no know we don't paint our face. Ugly enough as it is, so it isn't neccessary.

23:06:35 Shane Bugbee: Let me tell you. They're ugly. I don't know what happened to him. I saw him when they're 15 they look young. You know?

23:06:42 Rick Scythe: Smiling, with a mullet...

23:06:43 Shane Bugbee: Something happened and they've been destroyed. I asked when he came in, I go "you go in a car wreck". And it looks bad. I don't know happened.

23:06:52 Rick Scythe: Oh, that's my actual initials. RFS. I thought somebody was stalking me.

23:06:56 Shane Bugbee: Oh, that's Radio Free Satan.com

23:06:59 Amy Bugbee: They had an idea for Radio Free Satan action figures.

23:07:02 Rick Scythe: Well, yeah, I think Shane would come...

23:07:04 Shane Bugbee: Oh, yeah, actually, I'm gonna tell you I'm only doing porno. So you want to action figure, you gotta fucking fuck on film for me? Okay, that's it. Yeah, Amy might even slip a butter fist in here and there. So you better fucking watch the ass.

23:07:17 Rick Scythe: What about a Hot Carl.

23:07:18 Lance Bugbee: What's a Hot Carl?

23:07:20 Shane Bugbee: Just like a Cleveland steamer. You know, know what a blumpkin is?

23:07:24 Yeah, it's getting a blow job while, taking the shit.

23:07:27 Yeah. From Thomas Thorne. Oh!

23:07:31 Rick Scythe: Hey, how about Hot Carl, Cleveland Steamer, Dirty Sanchez?

23:07:38 Shane Bugbee: Yeah.

23:07:38 Rick Scythe: Yeah, okay...

23:07:40 Amy Bugbee: Butter fist. Butter fist. Butter fist.

23:07:45 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, that Boyd Rice interview and stuff will be coming up at midnight. So actually be on the air.

23:07:50 Lance Bugbee: How about us do How about a stupid joke?

23:07:53 Shane Bugbee: Okay, go.

23:07:53 Lance Bugbee: How'd Hitler tie his shoes? In little Nazis?

23:07:59 Rick Scythe: Aw, that's cute.

23:08:04 Amy Bugbee: That is cute.

23:08:05 Shane Bugbee: Oh, man, that's funny.

23:08:07 Amy Bugbee: 15 more years, Hitler will be like Mickey Mouse.

23:08:10 Rick Scythe: Yeah. Hitler land, amusment park.

23:08:17 Shane Bugbee: Remember you Usurper.us but you know it's a it's a domain name.

23:08:22 Rick Scythe: Someone owns Usurper.com he's not even available... Shane Bugbee: Remember you Usurper.us but you know it's a it's a domain name.

23:08:22 Rick Scythe: Someone owns Usurper.com he's not even available...

23:08:26 Lance Bugbee: Wasting our time looking through a Stryper site.

23:08:29 Rick Scythe: Stryper site.

23:08:30 Lance Bugbee: Oh, come on.

23:08:32 Rick Scythe: Bet I can find better gay porn than that.

23:08:34 Shane Bugbee: Just chill.

23:08:35 Rick Scythe: It is fine. Here. Listen. Listen...

23:08:42 Lance Bugbee: This is your last chance.

23:08:44 Shane Bugbee: Fourty-five minutes. Doug did some really kick ass artwork in 10 Might is Right books, leather bound. Lance Bugbee: This is your last chance.

23:08:44 Shane Bugbee: Fourty-five minutes. Doug did some really kick ass artwork in 10 Might is Right books, leather bound.

23:08:50 Amy Bugbee: Every single one is different. Every single one is totally cool.

23:08:53 Shane Bugbee: One of a kind. 100 bucks, their yours.

23:08:55 Amy Bugbee: 100 bucks, you're gonna regret it for the rest.

23:09:00 Shane Bugbee: I'm gonna donate a quarter of that 100 bucks for bullets and those bullets are going to go to vote for the next president. That makes any sense...

23:09:11 Rick Scythe: Shane Bugbee saying that, not Rick from Usurper. Shane Bugbee: I'm gonna donate a quarter of that 100 bucks for bullets and those bullets are going to go to vote for the next president. That makes any sense...

23:09:11 Rick Scythe: Shane Bugbee saying that, not Rick from Usurper.

23:09:14 Shane Bugbee: [yelling]

23:09:28 Amy Bugbee: Women leather and tell.

23:09:43 Rick Scythe: Dr. Jeff. Yeah, Walmart may have the CDs.

23:09:48 Lance Bugbee: How's our driver? Should do an autograph signing at Walmart.

23:09:54 Shane Bugbee: Who said that? Who's coming? Lance Bugbee: How's our driver? Should do an autograph signing at Walmart.

23:09:54 Shane Bugbee: Who said that? Who's coming?

23:09:57 Lance Bugbee: Bill M I think, I don't know.

23:09:59 Amy Bugbee: Bill M. Bill M.

23:10:01 Rick Scythe: When the contest ends, gay sex. Live. Free Radio Satan. Amy Bugbee: Bill M. Bill M.

23:10:02 Rick Scythe: When the contest ends, gay sex. Live. Free Radio Satan.

23:10:08 Amy Bugbee: How, how is "my gun is bigger" feeling?

23:10:22 Lance Bugbee: What's Smelly Wilber asking?

23:10:26 Shane Bugbee: Yo, yo, yo.

23:10:27 Lance Bugbee: You ain't gonna shoot. What do you mean?

23:10:32 Rick Scythe: Shoot a load on your ma's chest. Ha Ha Ha

23:10:40 Shane Bugbee: Who were you talking to when you said that? ...smelly Wilbur.

23:10:47 Lance Bugbee: We're chanting his name. We gotta stop saying his name.

23:10:50 Rick Scythe: Wilbur?

23:10:52 Unknown: [Chanting]

23:10:59 Lance Bugbee: Play with bullets?

23:11:01 Rick Scythe: Shane's lovely wife is going to make me get a DUI tonight by drinking wine.

23:11:04 Shane Bugbee: She'll do more than that.

23:11:07 Lance Bugbee: Just finished off a 40 of wine...

23:11:19 Rick Scythe: ...master reality on the old spinner. Why would you want to listen to Ozzy, he's a rich millionare.

23:11:24 Lance Bugbee: Even Panther... Panzer's got a question.

23:11:27 Shane Bugbee: Well, is he the Panzer of bitch?

23:11:32 Rick Scythe: Yeah, we do. We do black magic by Slayer. We do.

23:11:37 Amy Bugbee: Oh yeah.

23:11:38 Rick Scythe: Oh, yeah. Black funeral by merciful fate. Black metal. ...by Slayer. Warhead by Venom.

23:11:58 Shane Bugbee: Ask him a question. Listen, we know what's up and we're gonna lay it, next...next.. when Usurper comes out... No, I'll tell you what, when you come in to play. We're gonna get all the Slayer records. We'll get all theVenom albums and we're gonna lay him out we're gonna look at the tracks and we're gonna talk about it. And we're gonna figure out by fact, who's better.

23:12:19 Rick Scythe: Are you gonna make us do Slayer covers on the air?

23:12:22 Amy Bugbee: Yes.

23:12:28 Rick Scythe: Do Usurper covers...

23:12:31 Lance Bugbee: Alright, Usurper for how's it working with King Diamond?

23:12:34 Rick Scythe: It fucking kicked ass . The guy's fucking awesome ,he's real metal...

23:12:37 Shane Bugbee: He's real metal and he fucks about seven bitches a night.

23:12:42 Rick Scythe: Neil Diamond's even cooler to work with.

23:12:45 Lance Bugbee: That all they drank? Lightweights.

23:12:47 Shane Bugbee: No, we drank a lot more than.

23:12:48 Doug Misicko: All we're drinking is fruity, wine that's all we like. Shane Bugbee: No, we drank a lot more than.

23:12:48 Doug Misicko: All we're drinking is fruity, wine that's all we like.

23:12:52 Shane Bugbee: Listen, Doug...

23:12:52 Lance Bugbee: It still works, it's alcohol! Shane Bugbee: Listen, Doug...

23:12:52 Lance Bugbee: It still works, it's alcohol!

23:12:54 Shane Bugbee: Hey, hey, let me say something. Hold on, Doug is one of these marathon runners that just has to complete the race. He's just sitting on the couch with a toothbrush in his hand and a glass of wine...

23:13:04 Rick Scythe: ...a lightweight, oh my god. I guarantee you Dr.Jeff, yeah Dr. Jeff I guarantee you come next time when Usurfer is playing in Shane studio. ...and we'll drink you under the table bro.

23:13:17 Lance Bugbee: All right. Rick Scythe: ...a lightweight, oh my god. I guarantee you Dr.Jeff, yeah Dr. Jeff I guarantee you come next time when Usurfer is playing in Shane studio. ...and we'll drink you under the table bro.

23:13:18 Lance Bugbee: All right.

23:13:18 Shane Bugbee: I'm gonna tell you you're risking you're risking it with Dr. Jeff.

23:13:21 Amy Bugbee: Dr. Jeff can drink!

23:13:23 Shane Bugbee: Brother you are risking it...

23:13:25 Rick Scythe: Eh, the generals not here tonight. Man.

23:13:29 Shane Bugbee: You better I'm just telling you I [we wish there was some weed in the mix] got a hollow leg.

23:13:35 Rick Scythe: Awesome.

23:13:36 Lance Bugbee: Are we going to be airing that Boyd Rice time interview?

23:13:39 Shane Bugbee: We're going to the air in your mother's pussy on fucking Cinemax mother fucker. Lance Bugbee: Are we going to be airing that Boyd Rice time interview?

23:13:39 Shane Bugbee: We're going to the air in your mother's pussy on fucking Cinemax mother fucker.

23:13:43 Unknown: [unintelligable] Shane Bugbee: We're going to the air in your mother's pussy on fucking Cinemax mother fucker.

23:13:43 Shane Bugbee: We're going to the air in your mother's pussy on fucking Cinemax mother fucker.

23:13:45 Rick Scythe: I think they want me to Leave.

23:13:47 Shane Bugbee: No, your not leaving we're gonna air...

23:13:51 Shane Bugbee: Neil Diamond and King Diamond are really the same person.

23:13:54 Rick Scythe: They are! Fuck this corpse, ladies. He started singing Neil Diamond songs. It's really creepy.

23:13:59 Shane Bugbee: I've seen Neil Diamond, counts as great.

23:14:02 Rick Scythe: Awesome, man. Cheers.

23:14:04 Shane Bugbee: No, that guy comes out and every time he changes uniform.

23:14:07 Rick Scythe: Man then he's total heavy metal. Totally.

23:14:14 Lance Bugbee: One bottle of wine. Talk about 10 bottles of wine.

23:14:17 Shane Bugbee: And your mother. She's under the desk right now, motherfucker.

23:14:20 Rick Scythe: No we had a lot of bottles. We're talking about those big ghetto bottles of wine too.

23:14:24 Shane Bugbee: ...because Rich. I wasn't talking about your [uninteligable]... Hey.

23:14:30 Rick Scythe: I know it sounds kind of gay.

23:14:33 Shane Bugbee: What is rich short for?

23:14:37 Exactly.

23:14:39 Lance Bugbee: Hey Dick, are you gonna be in Baltimore?

23:14:40 Shane Bugbee: Oh!

23:14:45 Rick Scythe: Oh, we already we played Baltimore. We played somewhere in Maryland. Wait. Baltimore is in Maryland.

23:14:51 Amy Bugbee: That's right.

23:14:52 Rick Scythe: Yeah, we just played there. I think we played there a bunch of times.

23:14:56 Amy Bugbee: Did you guys see Edgar Allen Poe's grave?

23:14:59 Rick Scythe: Na, we didn't have too much time. We're always when we tour in America we're piled in a van and...

23:15:04 Lance Bugbee: Rich is a fuckin olympic contender in the drinking olympics.

23:15:06 Rick Scythe: We're happily married men.

23:15:07 Shane Bugbee: Listen, these guys hear this statement he gives out Amy we're happily married men. We're happily married men.

23:15:13 Lance Bugbee: Upstate New York. Where all the hillbillies live. Shane Bugbee: Listen, these guys hear this statement he gives out Amy we're happily married men. We're happily married men.

23:15:13 Lance Bugbee: Upstate New York. Where all the hillbillies live.

23:15:15 Rick Scythe: Yeah, Verona, New York. We're supposed to actually play and we got lost and then these guys on the tour...

23:15:21 Shane Bugbee: Bye bye Doug. Hey Doug, you didn't make it till midnight, bitch.

23:15:27 Lance Bugbee: 45 minutes you fucking coward quitter punk.

23:15:32 Rick Scythe: Dr Jeff says that I'm a contender in the drinking olympics. Kick ass, that's fucking awesome, man.

23:15:40 Shane Bugbee: So is he gonna make it down here, when you're in studio.

23:15:42 Rick Scythe: Dr Jeff, I hope so. Man if he this guy could drink that much.I'd love the fucking hit em...

23:15:47 Shane Bugbee: Brother...

23:15:47 Lance Bugbee: ...come the fucking back.

23:15:49 Shane Bugbee: I'm pretty sure... Lance Bugbee: ...come the fucking back.

23:15:49 Shane Bugbee: I'm pretty sure...

23:15:51 Rick Scythe: Kick ass, so tell him to come down.

23:15:52 Shane Bugbee: He's a no nonsense character bro, and if he says he can, he can't.

23:15:57 Rick Scythe: And I don't blame him for thinking drinking wine's a little fruity. I would kind of think so too.

23:16:01 Lance Bugbee: It's still alcohol, who gives a shit.

23:16:02 Rick Scythe: Exactly. Shane and his lovely wife set me up with some alcohol and it's all of theirs. Lance Bugbee: It's still alcohol, who gives a shit.

23:16:02 Rick Scythe: Exactly. Shane and his lovely wife set me up with some alcohol and it's all of theirs.

23:16:09 Lance Bugbee: Fruity drinking in style, motherfucker

23:16:11 Amy Bugbee: After no sleep for 36 hours. Just about anything would get us drunk. Lance Bugbee: Fruity drinking in style, motherfucker

23:16:11 Amy Bugbee: After no sleep for 36 hours. Just about anything would get us drunk.

23:16:15 Rick Scythe: What am I going to be an ungrateful guest and demand my favorite beer?

23:16:20 Lance Bugbee: How about we start each with five liters of wine, last man standing drink the remaining three liters of the other fuckers.

23:16:25 Shane Bugbee: Fruity motherfucker. Lance Bugbee: How about we start each with five liters of wine, last man standing drink the remaining three liters of the other fuckers.

23:16:25 Shane Bugbee: Fruity motherfucker.

23:16:31 Amy Bugbee: Rich, stop it!

23:16:33 Shane Bugbee: Ya fruity motherfucker. That's your head.

23:16:39 Rick Scythe: Hey, Shane. see if T-bone... that and The Simpsons are the best shows of All Time. No question about it. I see the reruns constantly. Never get sick of it.

23:16:56 Shane Bugbee: Hey, Dr. Jeff doesn't watch TV.

23:16:59 Rick Scythe: Oh, that's cool. He's too cool for TV.

23:17:01 Lance Bugbee: But he sure can fucking drink

23:17:03 Shane Bugbee: TV.

23:17:03 Amy Bugbee: TV is god.

23:17:10 Shane Bugbee: What I'm seeing rich... I'm hallucinating your mother. [heavy breathing] I can smell that fucking pussy from here.

23:17:32 Amy Bugbee: ...Mom and Dad. He sent us an mp3 and it rocks.

23:17:42 Rick Scythe: This guy's CD from Canada that says "live dad".

23:17:46 Shane Bugbee: It's Jared from the subway commercials...

23:17:49 Lance Bugbee: Hey Shane, you're hallucinating 13 year old girls.

23:17:52 Shane Bugbee: ...raping their ass. ...raping their ass, leaving them in a pool of blood. Hopefully busted him in the head with my wine glass.

23:18:05 Lance Bugbee: You are hallucinating at this point.

23:18:09 Rick Scythe: Wait, let's read an email from Dr. Jess. I am completely gay. I want to have anal sex with Shane.

23:18:24 Amy Bugbee: Dr. Jess I don't know if Shane can accommodate you, but I have some rubber gloves and a pound of butter.

23:18:31 Rick Scythe: Butter fist.

23:18:33 Shane Bugbee: I do like to take photos when Amy sticks her fist up someone's ass.

23:18:36 Rick Scythe: Dr. Jess getting the butter fist.

23:18:40 Lance Bugbee: Who fucking booted those pussies at personal Satan?

23:18:44 Shane Bugbee: Who said that?

23:18:45 Lance Bugbee: Heathen Panzer.

23:18:47 Shane Bugbee: Heathen panzer. I'm going to send a panzer division right up your ass.

23:18:53 Rick Scythe: Heavy artillery up your ass...

23:18:57 Amy Bugbee: ...that came flying out.

23:18:59 Shane Bugbee: That's what the guy who did destroyed 666 said what he's gonna come over, "if you fuck us over we will send the Panzer Division right up your ass."

23:19:07 Rick Scythe: That's the quote of the millennia definitely. Okay, which one do you losers hasn't gone to www.usurper.us yet?

23:19:23 Shane Bugbee: Yeah and seeing what the real shit is like, you know most of you guys out there are thinking man. You gotta usurper.us you're gonna find that you need some spikes you need some leather and some fucking...

23:19:35 Rick Scythe: Look at that D666 is awesome Fuck yeah, that's what Heathen Panzer is totally fucking right they fucking rule.

23:19:44 Shane Bugbee: Who?

23:19:45 Rick Scythe: Cold Steel for an Iron Age.

23:19:47 Shane Bugbee: It's a band?

23:19:48 Rick Scythe: Na, an album. Come on. Give ya a hint. They used to be from the land down under.

23:19:55 Shane Bugbee: Destroyer?

23:19:56 Rick Scythe: Yeah, their newest album kicks fucking total ass. Homophobia is gay. There it is again. No the next album that is not as good man. The newest one...

23:20:09 Shane Bugbee: Unchained the wolves... [yelling]

23:20:16 Rick Scythe: It kicks total ass but the newest one, if you like that man, Cold Steel for an Iron Age.

23:20:26 Amy Bugbee: That's right.

23:20:30 Rick Scythe: Hey, Heathen Panzer, you said Phoenix Rising?

23:20:33 I think cold steel for an Iron Age. I think that's way better than Phoenix Rising.

23:20:42 Shane Bugbee: Doug you gonna sleep on this couch tonight?

23:20:44 Lance Bugbee: Unleash the Wolves or Unchain the wolves?

23:20:57 Rick Scythe: We're drinking...

23:20:59 Shane Bugbee: Unchained your mama okay motherfucker...

23:21:01 Amy Bugbee: What the fuck do you expect?

23:21:02 Shane Bugbee: We still know our shit.

23:21:03 Rick Scythe: Definitely Heathen Panzer check it out it fucking kicks ass.

23:21:06 Lance Bugbee: Thomas Thorn interview...or have they had too much wine?

23:21:10 Shane Bugbee: Hey, all you need to go to the gay porno section and look for the video. Talk into the mic, bitch. And that's the Thomas Thorne interview, okay. Talk into the mic, bitch.

23:21:20 Amy Bugbee: Thomas Thorne got kicked out of Thrill Kill Cult, cuz his ass couldn't take it.

23:21:24 Shane Bugbee: Oh!

23:21:25 Rick Scythe: Check out sadistic execution. Yeah, they fucking kick ass to the Australian fucking metal was really close.

23:21:31 Shane Bugbee: Those Australian Nazis are fucked up.

23:21:35 Lance Bugbee: Who's talking on the purple Mic?

23:21:38 Rick Scythe: I got the blue mic.

23:21:40 Shane Bugbee: How do they know what colors they are?

23:21:42 Lance Bugbee: Someone said the purple mic.

23:21:43 Amy Bugbee: There is no purple Mic.

23:21:47 Unknown: Oh, that'd be Shane.

23:21:50 Lance Bugbee: We got 36 minutes left, Rich says.

23:21:53 Shane Bugbee: Yeah, well we're gonna make it rich. And you know what? When that building falls by 1159 you're gonna have a white streak in your fucking hair. Because the buildings are coming down, 911.

23:22:07 Lance Bugbee: Meshugah, that's Ozzy's favorite thing?

23:22:12 Shane Bugbee: Well his kid's a faggot anyway, who gives a fuck?

23:22:14 Amy Bugbee: I perfer bubble gum rock.

23:22:15 Shane Bugbee: there's not a purple mic...

23:22:16 Lance Bugbee: there is a purple mic.

23:22:18 Shane Bugbee: Meshugah is for fucking Jews.

23:22:20 Amy Bugbee: Cradle of Filth are like bubble gum metal. Shane Bugbee: Meshugah is for fucking Jews.

23:22:20 Amy Bugbee: Cradle of Filth are like bubble gum metal.

23:22:21 Shane Bugbee: Meshugah. [racist noices] I need some fucking chicken noodle soup and meshsugah. Amy Bugbee: Cradle of Filth are like bubble gum metal.

23:22:21 Shane Bugbee: Meshugah. [racist noices] I need some fucking chicken noodle soup and meshsugah.

23:22:29 Amy Bugbee: Meshugah is like the Bay City Rollers.

23:22:32 Shane Bugbee: Fucking homo, if you were here right now, I'd bash your head in.

23:22:38 Doug, wake the fuck up, you fucking prick!

23:22:42 Rick Scythe: Heavy Metal isn't about thinking it's just about doing. And in the worst way. Hey, man...

23:22:52 Lance Bugbee: Fucking great. No their not.

23:22:55 Rick Scythe: Who?

23:22:56 Lance Bugbee: Meshugah

23:22:59 Rick Scythe: I think homophobia is gay.

23:23:04 Lance Bugbee: My Gun is Bigger. The 17 year old.

23:23:07 Rick Scythe: That's pretty funny, man. He's the he's the official Seinfeld of this message board. Oh, he's the guy who came up with the whole homophobia is gay.

23:23:19 Lance Bugbee: That, that would be Rich.

23:23:20 Rick Scythe: Yeah, that was fucking funny, man. Lance Bugbee: That, that would be Rich.

23:23:20 Rick Scythe: Yeah, that was fucking funny, man.

23:23:22 Shane Bugbee: Listen.

23:23:26 Doug Misicko: I think we should take a call in from Rich.

23:23:30 Rick Scythe: Yeah, take a call.

23:23:32 Shane Bugbee: Rich. rich, rich, rich.

23:23:38 Rick Scythe: They were great.

23:23:39 Shane Bugbee: Listen, they don't top the stort 666 list. Especially in chain the wolves. It's in fact, one of the best albums in metal. A really superb album.

23:23:46 Rick Scythe: I like cold steel for an Iron Age.

23:23:48 Amy Bugbee: Samhain. Rick Scythe: I like cold steel for an Iron Age.

23:23:48 Amy Bugbee: Samhain.

23:23:51 Rick Scythe: Totally.

23:23:52 Amy Bugbee: Don't forget Samhain, babe.

23:23:53 Shane Bugbee: Samhain, Samhain. Oh yeah. You know what? We're gonna be on the air another 12 hours. We're going until noon tomorrow.

23:24:05 Lance Bugbee: What about Blood Fart?

23:24:12 Rich's laughing.

23:24:14 Shane Bugbee: Oh my god that's a first he must have his finger up his ass.

23:24:17 Lance Bugbee: Or the butter fist

23:24:19 Shane Bugbee: Rich are you finger in your asshole, or is there a 13 year old girl there, with a bleeding bottom.

23:24:29 Rick Scythe: Hey, so did earache know that you were doing this today, or are they just ignoring you?

23:24:33 Shane Bugbee: Anal Cunt? I called them and i told them. I said, Listen, I'm gonna go I'ma tell you a break, Rick's fucking hands.

23:24:41 Amy Bugbee: Anal Cunt has nothing on the Mentor.

23:24:43 Shane Bugbee: He goes, "go, go on, go do it". And I'm like, I'm not kidding. And they go on. I said, Listen, if I don't have him in here, and he blows me off, and I need something to do on the radio, I'm just gonna send someone with cellphone. I'm gonna throw a brick at his van.

23:24:55 Rick Scythe: Hey, look Shane... Didn't I say, I didn't want... Guys the phone's ringing.

23:24:59 Shane Bugbee: Oh, shit. All right. Hello.

23:25:09 Rick Richards: What do you want?

23:25:11 Shane Bugbee: Oh, Rick Richards on the phone.

23:25:13 Rick Scythe: Hey, man.

23:25:17 Shane Bugbee: Wow you actually came on...

23:25:19 Rick Richards: Yeah, you guys gonna play that interview? Or no? Someone's asking about it.

23:25:23 Rick Scythe: What's that line used to have... Rick Richards: Yeah, you guys gonna play that interview? Or no? Someone's asking about it.

23:25:23 Rick Scythe: What's that line used to have...

23:25:26 Shane Bugbee: Talking about Venom.

23:25:29 Rick Richards: What?

23:25:29 Shane Bugbee: I'm bleeding.

23:25:31 Rick Richards: Yeah, and?

23:25:32 Shane Bugbee: We're hardcore.

23:25:33 Rick Scythe: Well, he doesn't want to spread the AIDS virus so...

23:25:37 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna play the interview, it's not midnight yet.

23:25:40 Amy Bugbee: They're illegal in more than Serbia, Wilbur.

23:25:44 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna play the interview. It's in the cassette player.

23:25:48 Rick Richards: All right. Shane Bugbee: We're gonna play the interview. It's in the cassette player.

23:25:48 Rick Richards: All right.

23:25:50 Shane Bugbee: Is that it? Are you gonna call the harass?

23:25:52 Rick Richards: No. Yeah, that's it. I called to harass you. That's about it. Right.

23:25:55 Shane Bugbee: Then harass us about drinking then, man.

23:25:59 Rick Scythe: We're all drinking wine.

23:26:01 Rick Richards: So what, hey, I drink wine. I drink wine. I drink beer. I drink liquor. [unintelligable] just been fermented with yeast and no sugars and drink alcohol afterwards.

23:26:14 Rick Scythe: Hey, man, are you gonna come down when Usurper play and Jess is here?

23:26:17 Rick Richards: Yeah, I'll be there.

23:26:18 Rick Scythe: Let's have a drinking contest. You want to?

23:26:20 Rick Richards: Yeah.

23:26:22 Rick Scythe: All right. Barry the band

23:26:29 Doug Misicko: I'll be driving, man.

23:26:30 Rick Richards: Like big boxes of wine, those big five liter boxes of wine.

23:26:38 Shane Bugbee: Whiskey, beer, we'll get what you want. Rick Richards: Like big boxes of wine, those big five liter boxes of wine.

23:26:38 Shane Bugbee: Whiskey, beer, we'll get what you want.

23:26:39 Rick Scythe: Drink a German beer some Octoberfest.

23:26:42 Rick Richards: Man, I'm done with that.

23:26:45 Shane Bugbee: He drinks real beer only.

23:26:47 Rick Richards: ...real filling hard to the drink and because it just fills you up so much.

23:26:51 Rick Scythe: Yeah, I know man.

23:26:53 Rick Richards: Drinking a lot of it but you know, no problem. I can second put down at least 24 beers in a couple hours.

23:26:59 Rick Scythe: Yeah, that's good. That's a good start man.

23:27:02 Rick Richards: Got a problem.

23:27:03 Rick Scythe: How about any weed?

23:27:05 Rick Richards: I don't really do that.

23:27:06 Rick Scythe: A couple of lines? Rick Richards: I don't really do that.

23:27:06 Rick Scythe: A couple of lines?

23:27:09 Shane Bugbee: We'lll be a rapist bitch.

23:27:11 Rick Richards: ...which is fortunate for me because it's legal.

23:27:13 Rick Scythe: We're gonna be doing all of this. Everything we can get out hands on.

23:27:16 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna do heroin enamas. Rick Scythe: We're gonna be doing all of this. Everything we can get out hands on.

23:27:17 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna do heroin enamas.

23:27:19 Rick Scythe: Shane exclusive...

23:27:23 Rick Richards: Put rat poison in your body , for all I care.

23:27:26 Amy Bugbee: No, we're not drinking box wine. Okay.

23:27:30 Rick Richards: Alcohol alcohol is alcohol, who gives a fuck?

23:27:33 Amy Bugbee: Franzia wine.

23:27:39 Rick Richards: Hey, you know it does the job. That's all it matters.

23:27:44 Lance Bugbee: Weed owns alcohol, depends on what mood you're in.

23:27:48 Rick Scythe: It's all good. Why discriminate man?

23:27:51 Lance Bugbee: Satan smokes blunts.

23:27:55 Rick Scythe: Blunts are for black metal.

23:27:57 Lance Bugbee: Satan smokes bongs.

23:28:00 Shane Bugbee: Hey, hold on, guys. [music] All right then. [music] There's no equality. There's something superior and I'm gonna prove it to you when you play.

23:28:32 Rick Scythe: Okay.

23:28:32 Shane Bugbee: We're gonna prove it,lay it on the table and were gona look. We're gonna we're gonna play some...

23:28:36 Rick Scythe: Come on Shane who's the best metal band from Chicago in this day and age"

23:28:40 Shane Bugbee: Enough is enough.

23:28:42 Rick Scythe: Okay, third best.

23:28:44 Shane Bugbee: Usurper. Rick Scythe: Okay, third best.

23:28:44 Shane Bugbee: Usurper.

23:28:45 Rick Scythe: Okay. You got to say it again.

23:28:50 Rick Richards: Stuff like that with all the black metal all sounds exactly the fucking same.

23:28:55 Shane Bugbee: So does all the industrial bullshit

23:28:57 Rick Scythe: That is a strange comment because for someone like me who doesn't listen to rap I think that about rap and somebody listen... Wait wait hang on. No you're right but no I wouldn't discriminate against metal any kind of metal that doesn't have rap in it or turn table or guy with a backward baseball hat is a positive thing for the metal scene. Don't you think?

23:29:23 Shane Bugbee: Don't you think?

23:29:24 Rick Scythe: Hello?

23:29:25 Rick Richards: I'm sorry I didn't hear a word you said there.

23:29:28 Rick Scythe: Oh, sorry. Um I'm saying any form of metal that doesn't use a turntable wrap or like a backwards baseball head Don't you think that's positive for the metal scene instead of everyone kind of dividing against the sub genres of underground metal.

23:29:45 Rick Richards: It's not about genre it's about whether I fuckin like it or not. That's what it comes down to. And so far black metal I've not heard one thing that's... Rick Scythe: Oh, sorry. Um I'm saying any form of metal that doesn't use a turntable wrap or like a backwards baseball head Don't you think that's positive for the metal scene instead of everyone kind of dividing against the sub genres of underground metal.

23:29:45 Rick Richards: It's not about genre it's about whether I fuckin like it or not. That's what it comes down to. And so far black metal I've not heard one thing that's...

23:29:54 Rick Scythe: What about Hellbringer?

23:29:57 Rick Richards: I've not found anything I really found entertaining. So I mean, it's just that's what it comes down to. I don't give a fuck about genres and sub genres and dividing the scene and all this crap. Who gives a fuck? You like it or you don't? That's it.

23:30:09 Rick Scythe: Yeah, you're right, man. I hate about 95% of black metal. I know what you mean. But I mean, fans like venom and hell hammer and, you know? Bathary that's real fucking black metal, War, Niflheim. I mean, that's fucking real black metal that should be supported.

23:30:27 Shane Bugbee: What about nippleheim?

23:30:35 Doug Misicko: I'm with rich. I'm with rich i like i like the industrial.

23:30:44 Rick Richards: Next time you have the guys, for a live thing and all that, I'll be down there. I'll come down there next time the Usurper guys are Usuper guys are there.

23:30:53 Rick Scythe: Yeah, definitely.

23:30:55 Rick Richards: So yeah, you want to we can have a drinking contest. It'll be cool. Be good radio. Because for me, either win or lose. It'll be good for me. Hey, you know what? I don't see any downside to it. So...

23:31:12 Rick Scythe: Yeah, there is no downside, man.

23:31:14 Rick Richards: Win or lose. You're still going to be pretty happy at the end. So.

23:31:18 Rick Scythe: Fuck Yeah.

23:31:21 Rick Richards: Sounds good.

23:31:23 Lance Bugbee: Come on, dude likes rap?

23:31:26 Rick Scythe: Who likes rap?

23:31:27 Lance Bugbee: My gun is...

23:31:27 Rick Scythe: Shoot him. Shoot him, kill him.

23:31:30 Lance Bugbee: He's been listening for 24 hours though.

23:31:32 Rick Scythe: ...and he likes rap.

23:31:39 Rick Richards: And he is 17. So...

23:31:41 Rick Scythe: Yeah. But he had to stop listening to rap.

23:31:44 Rick Richards: We're sending them a cannibal corpse CD though, because he's, you know, he makes it today. Actually, midnight ain't there yet. But when he makes it, we're gonna send a mechanical coprse CD. Well, you know, we got to wrap it up at midnight for me to get the regular stream going. But what we can do is, if you guys want to keep going a little bit past midnight, I give the people in the chat room. The addresses hooked directly into the live server and you guys can just go until you run out of steam.

23:32:17 Rick Scythe: I'm gonna drive home now.

23:32:18 Shane Bugbee: I'm gonna play that Boyd Rice tape in a second.

23:32:21 Rick Scythe: Alright, cool. How long is that?

23:32:23 Shane Bugbee: Hour and a half.

23:32:24 Rick Richards: Hour and a half. All right. Well, I'll give the people in the chat room. I'll give it in the chat room the address to the for the live server so they can hear that... All right, but at midnight, I got to put the stream back over to the other to normal stream because you go until midnight.

23:32:47 Rick Scythe: I'm gonna fly man, I'll get out of here for this other interview. We talked about metal long enough. And we'll be back. Definitely man.

23:32:55 Rick Richards: You definitely gonna have to have him back. Man. We're gonna do that.

23:33:00 Shane Bugbee: What did Peter Gilmore say? Is the inner planets.

23:33:03 Rick Richards: What?

23:33:05 Shane Bugbee: I don't know, Lance said something. What did you say?

23:33:07 Lance Bugbee: It says I didn't miss the interview with HP. Peter Gilmore didn't miss Usurper. So it's all cool.

23:33:14 Shane Bugbee: Okay, I'm gonna start to take the next five minutes.

23:33:18 Rick Richards: All right, well, this is what I'm telling you. That's what I'm going to do. People if you want to hear there the entire tape of the Boyd Right and Thomas Thorne interview, you have to be in the chat room because you're not going to know how to hear it otherwise, because I'm going to be switching the stream back to my regular stream and you're going to you stay on the regular stream and you're not in the chat room. You're going to hear balls to the walls at midnight. So everybody else be in the chat room and I'll make sure you get it. Alright, looking forward to hearing that tape. I'll talk to you guys later. Bye

23:33:50 Rick Scythe: I gotta hit the sidewalk.

23:33:57 Shane Bugbee: Whoa, whoa, whoa

23:33:58 Unknown: [music]

References

↑ Archive.org, Might Is Right 24-Hour Radio Special
↑ Newsgroup archive, Sept. 9, 2003

[1] Archive.org, Might Is Right 24-Hour Radio Special

[2] Newsgroup archive, Sept. 9, 2003

[1]

[2]

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 Working transcript of the ''Might is Right'' 24-hour stream.
 On Sept. 11, 2003, [[Doug Misicko]], [[Shane Bugbee]], and Shane's wife [[Amy Bugbee]], also known as Amy Stocky, hosted a 24-hour Internet radio stream with guests and callers to mark the release of their new edition of ''Might Is Right'' by Arthur Desmond, then using the penname "Ragnar Redbeard".<ref>[https://archive.org/details/MightIsRightSpecial Archive.org], Might Is Right 24-Hour Radio Special</ref>
+Jump to guest:
+[[#Metzger]]
 ==Full Audio==

Might Is Right 24-Hour Radio Special: Difference between revisions