Podcasts/Sacred Tension-Satanic TarotMASTERED7zw2p

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Satanic_TarotMASTERED7zw2p SUMMARY KEYWORDS ritual, people, satanic, tst, deck, card, life, satanists, tarot, music, listening, encountering, practice, thought, taro, religion, satanist, baptism, experience, mystical experience SPEAKERS Shiva Honey, Stephen Bradford Long

00:00 You're listening to a rock candy Podcast. I'm Erica Michelle, I host a voice diary called brown sugar diaries on the right kick network where I spill all the tea about my dating experiences life lessons, my journey to healing and wholeness my life as an entrepreneur, student, doctor, CEO of a nonprofit, and I give my opinion on the current happenings of the world. You see why I have a lot of stuff to talk about Tim into brown sugar barons wherever you listen to podcasts and listed on this team or while you cook up as it should okay.

Stephen Bradford Long 01:05 This is sacred tension, the podcast about the discipline of asking questions. My name is Steven Bradford long and we are here on the rock candy Podcast Network. For more shows like this one, go to rock candy recordings.com. All right. Well, as always, this show is only possible because of my patrons by going to patreon.com forward slash Steven Bradford long and giving just $1 a month or $5 a month you get access to all kinds of extra content every week, especially my patrons only podcast house of heretics in which Timothy the Christian pastor and me the satanists and I the Satanist have conversations about everything from politics, to blasphemy to Trump to religion, we talk about all sorts of things under the sun. I also tell traumatizing stories about goats and dumpsters at work. It's a long story, you have to subscribe to hear that one in particular, but I am relying on my patrons now more than ever, because I am working less and I'm not teaching yoga at all. So that means that I am counting on my patrons now more than I ever have. So if you're able to join their number, I would enormously appreciate it. Every little bit helps however, you might not be able to. I understand that times are rough the economy is trashed right now. So if you're just not able to give, I completely understand and I really need you to first and foremost, take care of yourself. There are other ways to support the show. The simplest way is to just subscribe on an app doesn't matter where you are listening, just subscribe. That tells our digital overlords that my show is worth sharing with other people also leave a five star review on Apple podcasts that is enormously helpful. So we do have a review on Apple podcasts that I will read right now. This is from Debbie Dev, and he says satanic hardon I love this show. Stephen has a great voice and wonderful perspectives that I thoroughly enjoy listening to. He has interesting guests and fun topics and it's a perfect podcast for Satanists pagans, non theists, atheists, agnostics, witches, heathens left hand path followers and admirers, and the non religious, even Christians and the curious should give it a listen, as they may even find out how non threatening and empathetic Satanism really is. I discovered I discovered Steven when he was a guest on my other favorite satanic podcast black mass appeal. And I've been a sacred tension fan ever since I look forward to the show every week. Hail Satan. Well, that is a very very sweet review. And if you leave a five star review, I will read it on the show. Also, I will read one star reviews if someone leaves one so that will be exciting if that ever happens. Alright, well with all of that out of the way. I am happy to welcome the iconic Shiva honey back to the show. Shiva how are you?

Shiva Honey 04:34 Oh, I'm so glad to be here and iconic. Wow. That's...

Stephen Bradford Long 04:37 You are you are iconic.

Shiva Honey 04:42 That's my cat in the background. I don't know if she agrees or disagrees but

Stephen Bradford Long 04:47 I'm sure she does. So yeah. So I'm, I'm a bit stressed. I'm I'm coming down from a massive endorphin rush because so I had two episodes today. Uh huh. So I interviewed Simon wit up, who's like a satanic poet? Earlier today? Oh, cool. And then I had a few hours off. Yeah. So he, his episode would have come out last week. Or maybe I'll switch it up and maybe he'll be the week after. I don't know yet. But all that aside, so I went for a nice long run in between interviews. And you know, I've been running up in the mountains for years, for years and years up in up in the Appalachian Mountains. So, you know, you encounter all kinds of stuff up there, but I this time accidentally ran onto this terrifying old man's property. Oh, no. And I was convinced this man was going to fucking kill me. Like, it was. It was terrifying. And he chased me down his pickup truck with his dogs.

Shiva Honey 05:54 Oh, my God. Oh, my God, you escaped?

Stephen Bradford Long 05:58 Well, well, no. I mean, I stopped and talked to him. Oh, and he was like, where are your camera? I'm like, sorry. He says, Where did you come from? And I'm like, Oh, well, I just came from the road. I was in a pair. I was just going where my iPhone was telling me to. And I thought I was on the right trail. But I wasn't and I was apparently on his property. And he was super fucking pissed at me. And, and I'm like, I'm so sorry, sir. It will never happen again. I had no idea. I was, you know, this is just where, you know, lots of runners in the area have told me to go to try this trail. And I thought I was on the right trail. But apparently I wasn't. And I'm so sorry. These old people up in the mountains. Jesus Christ. You don't fucking cross them. Like,

Shiva Honey 06:47 I've had I've heard so I've never been in the mountain. So tell me more. Tell me

Stephen Bradford Long 06:51 more. Oh my god, you do not cross these people. They can kill you. But so anyway, so that was my afternoon. It was a very stressful I'm like Jesus Christ. And am I going to have to be running away from from like, a hoard of dogs hunting dogs.

Shiva Honey 07:11 Wow, this sounds like the start of like a really good horror film.

Stephen Bradford Long 07:14 It really does like the most dangerous game or something. So if so I'm if if you know if I sound like I have a bit more adrenaline in my bloodstream right now. It's because I do so. Hi, how are you? I'm glad you're here. We're here. We're here to talk about Taro. If I can come down for my

Shiva Honey 07:38 Well, decent breathing, we'll we'll do some deep.

Stephen Bradford Long 07:43 So you have a new project coming out? Tell us about it.

Shiva Honey 07:49 Yes, I do. So I spent most of the My years been, you know, turned on its head as many people see your husband turned on its head for obvious reasons. COVID You know, the insanity that's happening politically in our country, everything else. So I, I started out this year with finishing up the book, my book, The Devil's tome. And then I plan to go on tour with satanic planet and my own band Serpentina in March, and like, I think a little bit of April. And of course, that got canceled. So I ended up spending, you know, the first month or two of COVID sending out like these huge book orders that I had that, that I had from the devil's Tom campaign. And then I started thinking like, maybe I should just start doing, you know, continue this cycle of the devil's tome. And, you know, make something else that's related in cool. So I came up with this idea for the devil's deck, which is, I call it a satanic ritual deck, I haven't really found I did a little bit of research, I haven't really found anything else that's quite the same. If it's kind of like an Oracle deck, but for Satanists, it's, it's like a 30. It's a 30 card deck that that is a companion piece to the devil's tome, although you can use it completely separately. So it's got 17 of what I called ceremony cards that have rituals directly associated with them. So for that you'd use you know, the there'll be a booklet that comes with it that kind of explains for each card, regardless of what type it is just some thought exercises and some things to focus on when you pull it. And then for those 17 ceremony cards, they'll correspond with rituals and the devils tome. Then I've got these 13 elimination cards that are more they're more just kind of like you know, ideas to ponder if you choose the card, internal work we talked about this last time we spoke but just that that internal satanic journey like kind of prompts to encourage that internal work as a Satanists. So those have themes like you know, forgiveness, justice, illusions, actually working on the card for justice right now. Anger, generosity, like things just around different different concepts to ponder and maybe focus your energy on for like a week or a day or whenever you pull it so I I started conceptualizing that in the spring and then it's finally kind of coming into fruition now and fine. I'm just wrapping up the design of the project and I just released a Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign to fund the printing of it. So I'm super excited. I've been spending the last couple months I've been super nervous. I wasn't sure if anybody would understand. Or I used to get bullied in the satanic community for doing Tarot. And now it seems like it's, it's much more accepted.

Stephen Bradford Long 10:28 It's like caught on. Yeah. Because I love Tarot. I, I absolutely love it. And there was actually a question from one of my listeners, for my Ask Me Anything episode that I did three weeks ago, or two weeks ago, but I thought that I would put the question to you, because you also do a lot of stuff with taro and meditation and ritual and so on. So this was a question from Ryan. He asked, What are your thoughts on members of TST who do things such as Taro, I understand that there may be some kind of aesthetic novelty and personalized ritual going on. But at its roots, Taro is just non scientific and supernatural. It's the same as a dowsing pendulum, or on a Ouija board in my view, and I would only ever do those things for the fun of it. But when I see members with Tarot, they seem to be much more serious about it than just a party game. And so he's right. I do see it as much more serious than party game. But for me, it is it is purely psychological. But I'm wondering how you would answer that question.

Shiva Honey 11:39 Yeah, same totally same. So just to give you some background to on on Taro, my relationship with Taro, I started practicing Tarot reading it for myself, as a big, a big element of my ritual practice even before I became a member of tsp. So I started, you know, over 10 years ago, really just kind of like drawing a card and like incorporating that into my own the understanding of kind of like, what was happening in my life, my own internal investigations as I was processing a lot of trauma and trying to move out of like bad situations and that sort of thing. And from that point, I, you know, continued practicing alone. And then I started actually, the way I got able, was able to leave my corporate job a couple years ago, in part was because I started I have another like business where I do tarot, and I do like more middle of the road witchy products and stuff like that. So I got that off the ground. And I started just reading for people professionally. And it was, that's the thing like I always have, whenever I read for somebody, I have to give them the spiel of like, you know, I'm not a medium I don't speak to the dead I don't I don't you know, this isn't a supernatural tool, which I think a lot of people want it to be. And I think that just like Satanism and ritual, Taro has been given a lot of baggage, you know, and I have to kind of explain, like, the way that I use it as a tool of empowerment. So just like you would use a ritual, or you would, you know, the Tarot itself is a is a language that includes lots of archetypes, it includes lessons, it includes just big ideas, again, kind of like the deck that I've created for this self introspection and guidance. And that's the way that I use it. So I don't use it, like as a turban psychic, saying that, you know, you're gonna marry somebody that is six foot five with dark hair, and you're gonna die on May 2, you know, 2041, or something, I use it as a way to kind of, to, when I speak with somebody or speak to myself, it's a way to kind of go a little bit deeper than we typically do to understand our own psyche and, in essence, heal ourselves and also give directions. So for me, it's a tool to just understand myself better to uncover some things that I may be consciously avoiding, to, you know, a lot of the experience I've had, I've probably read over 1000 people professionally. And, you know, everybody really has the same issues. And it's a way for me to be able to kind of open people up to their own empowerment and understand that they have options and kind of through the cards, give them permission to ask questions that they might not have consciously asked before and a lot of times just leave toxic situations and make big changes in their life. So it's a tool of transition and understanding and freedom and liberation in my mind. You know, there's, there's lessons to be learned, there's poetry to be found. There's, for me, there's no talking to the spirits or anything like that. It's just a tool for reflection and liberation. A lot of ways.

Stephen Bradford Long 14:34 I completely agree with that. And, you know, I use Tarot every night as a prompt for journaling. I find it incredibly helpful for journaling. And so I draw a single card every night, to kind of be the closing ritual for the day. So I have an evening off. I have a morning office and an evening office and my evening office and ends with withdrawing a tarot card and some reflection on it. And then it is kind of a card to frame the the next day. So it's something to return to or meditate on as I go through the following day. And, you know, as I've done it for several years now, and one thing that I think is so helpful about Tarot is how non judgmental and impersonal it is because it's cards, right? And so it feels like an incredibly safe space to maybe go to some very difficult places because it There isn't a person on the other side of those cards to judge you. It's, it's just cards and it's random, right? And so that there's there's kind of this disarming, impersonal level to it that can form that for me makes it feel more safe. You know? Yeah, definitely.

Shiva Honey 15:58 And their stories to be told to us, it's just, it's, there's such a depth to it. I think if you appreciate it outside of like the superficial sort of, again, the baggage that that comes with the cards, if you just like you would, again, discard the Satanic Panic or, you know, ideas about ritual having to be a certain way, if you're able to discard I think the Tarot, the myths about Tarot the same way you do those things, then you can really you can open yourself up to a what I think is like a really sort of beautiful, elegant, interesting tool that you can use to understand your own experience more and to help you know, Inspire, Inspire you and, you know, provide you answers from inside of yourself that you might might not be so readily available, you know, on the top of mind, so

Stephen Bradford Long 16:42 yeah, definitely. And, you know, I read a quote somewhere I forget who said this, I think it was some blogger actually think it was a Christian blogger. He said, The Tarot is so genius, because it, it basically sums up pretty much the totality of like, universal human experience. Yes, exactly. In a deck that can fit in the palm of your hand. Like, when you really think about it that these are these images, kind of sum up universal human experience. Like as we all know, heartbreak we all know what we all have seen or experienced poverty, we all have seen wealth we have, you know, there, we all know mental anguish, betrayal, delusions, you know, it, it's the the images in the tarot, and the stories that they tell are universal. And it's just an incredible invention for all of that to fit in a 78 card deck of his a traditional Rider Waite, of traditional 78 card deck that can fit in the palm of your hand. I mean, it's just simply an incredibly it's just an incredible achievement of like, human insight and imagination.

Shiva Honey 18:00 Yes, absolutely. I think it's, it's amazing. And it's, I feel, I'm so happy that we have that tool to work with. And I'm so glad that people that Satanists now are opening themselves up to non theistic Satanists, specifically, opening themselves up to exploring this because I just like ritual, I think, there there are some really interesting benefits from, you know, playing with the deck and opening yourself up to it. And I think that it would be a shame if we just kind of, you know, discard it because of, again, that baggage at this time. You know, I think it can be a very satanic tool. And eventually, I do want to design a full tarot deck, but I think it'll, it'll take a couple of years, because that's a lot of work.

Stephen Bradford Long 18:43 That is a ton of work, for sure.

Shiva Honey 18:46 The reason the reason this one is, like, relatively quickly quick to produce is because I'm using a lot of the artwork from the devil's tone. Plus, you know, I've brought on Lucien and Alexandria again to design a couple of cards, and then I'm actually going to be working on a couple two, so it's a lot easier than starting from scratch. Because with the, with the full deck, you know, you've got you also have that, you know, hundreds of years of history and symbolism that's it depends on what you know, what avenue you take to kind of create illustrations for the deck, but there's just so much to incorporate potentially into cards that it's a true, it's a lot to it's a lot to put onto a project. But

Stephen Bradford Long 19:28 there was something that you just said there where you said something like, I'm so glad that you know, non theistic Satanists are finally realizing that they're able to do this and you know, one of the I feel like one of my personal agendas is to help people understand that things that they thought, were the sole domain of theism or supernaturalism or just religion in general. That they can actually lay claim to lay claim to and Hmm. You know, there are so many things about religious experience, and, and mystical experience that I actually think are really amazing and wonderful. And it makes me sad that when someone becomes a non theist or an agnostic, that they feel like they have to give those things up, you know, like, altered states of consciousness. Sure, or ritual or taro, or, you know, they're just all of these different things that people I think, feel like they have to get rid of, if they become an atheist. And that's just not true. You know, it's, that's like saying, Well, you know, I don't believe in Christian marriage anymore. So now I have to give up orgasm. It's right. It's ridiculous. You know, it's like, oh, I don't believe in Christian marriage anymore. Or I don't believe that, you know, sex outside of marriage is is immoral anymore. Well, now I have to give up and give up orgasm. I mean, it's kind of that level of backwards. It's like no mystical experience, meditation or ritual. These are universal things that we can all enjoy, regardless of what we believe.

Shiva Honey 21:09 Yeah, I agree, I think and I was just reflecting on my own life, you know, and I was Christian for a long time. And I think the most mystical, I've had the most mystical experiences, and the most just like, synchronicity oriented or kind of amazing, strange kind of explicable, but just, you know, interesting experiences, since I've become a Satanists. And you know, I think that, that that is because, as a Satanist, it's not, you know, it's not like out in the mist somewhere, something strange happening in the universe, necessarily, I'm just so much more tuned into, like, what I need and what I want. And I'm taking the steps because of tools. I'll say like, because of taro, or because of like, my ritual practice, because I'm checking in myself with myself on a constant basis. I'm consciously and subconsciously making choices to like, make all this quote unquote, magic happen and have all these amazing experiences. And, you know, seeking out these people that I've always wanted in my life, and I'm able to do the work that I've always wanted to do. It's, you know, where other people would say, you know, well, it's a real miracle. And God's really intervened here. It's for me, it's like, I'm having, you know, similar, I think, maybe experiences in terms of like, encountering these these situations, but it's because I've opened myself up to the mystical satanic experience, and I've opened myself up to myself in a way that I'd never been able to do before, you know, so,

Stephen Bradford Long 22:25 right. And, oh, there was just there was a thought I just had but then the cat started yelling outside the door. Completely. forgot what it was. If it comes back then I'll bring it up again. But okay. It's probably gone.

Shiva Honey 22:44 How are your cats? By the way? How many pets do you have?

Stephen Bradford Long 22:46 I have six cats. Yes. We we got the latest. The newest additions are a bonded pair of kittens, litter, litter mates who two girls, and we got them in June. I got them the week of my birthday. And we brought them home and then discovered that they had horrible parasites, and we're like, on death's door. And we spent like about $1,000 Trying to save them. But they pulled through and they're alive. We also got two rats. We have two pal rats now. And the cats love them. And we also have a tarantula. Hold on the cat is Xiao Ling. So let me try it real fast. Okie dokie. So okay, now, so I remember what I was going to bring up. Oh, yeah. So in your book, you have this amazing line, which is remember, you are the magic. Yeah, I fucking love that. And I think that I think that's a very satanic not only is it satanic, I think it's probably the source of a lot of experiences of magic, even if people externalize it you know, even in my personal philosophy, you know, when people experience supernatural entities or deities or what have you, what they're actually encountering is, is themselves in some way, some something inside of something inside of them. I, I love this reframing of magic and ritual as kind of re encountering the deeper parts of yourself, if you will, and I don't even mean this in like an union archetypal sense. Like I don't, I don't know if that's it, but I do think that the human mind is way bigger and way more complicated and way more weird, and that a lot of religious experience comes from us. And we can deliberately tap into it, you know, we can we can deliberately get into that state. Eat and encounter other parts of our mind. And so that phrase, you remember you are the magic is? I don't know, it's helpful for me in my own practice.

Shiva Honey 25:15 Well, thank you. I mean, that's, that's kind of like the key to everything. That's kind of like my philosophy, maybe I feel like that's the skeleton key, you know, that goes back to what I was talking about with, you know, being able to have these mystical experiences and not needing all of the all of everything else that surrounds these things, you know, and to be able to embrace that as a Satanist. I think that once we were able to, like, consciously realize that we are in control, to, you know, a certain degree, but we at least have control over, you know, what we do with our time, how we invest our energy, we have control over understanding our desires, like those are to me, like you can make such better decisions and have, you can be so much more in tune with yourself. I mean, I think too, we live in a culture and, you know, that just disregards a lot of those things, even though you know, and I speak from the United States American sort of perspective, but I'm probably just going off again, I'm just kind of thinking out loud, but like, there's this, there's this sense of duty, and just kind of like, keep on going, centered around capitalism. And I think our country as a whole, I think that like, there's, of course, these ideas of individualism and liberty and freedom, but I don't think, you know, if we hadn't didn't know already, that those things didn't quite work the way that we thought in school, I think people are realizing it. Now. There's just the way that the our economy is structured the way that like we're indoctrinated as kids through religion or other things, we've built up all these walls to keep ourselves from understanding our own power, and to keep to keep us from just like considering change and making hard decisions and making decisions based on what our needs are. And I think that once we were able to kind of pull back some of those layers, and I think you do that through, you know, engaging in ritual and like using different tools, you know, sort of mystical tools, then you are in a place where you're kind of left bare and you understand, you know, what's making you happy, what's making you unhappy. You know, maybe you're uncovering some of these some habits or things that you grew up with that have been harmful for you that you need to separate from maybe you're discovering, you know, the route of where your pleasure comes from it just to me that just idea that like when you're able to tune into yourself more and give yourself that time that mental space and clarity, that inquisitive sort of that inquisitive journey, then so much as can be revealed in your life can really change I think in like a cool way. I feel like I sound like a new age, like Nexium person right now.

Stephen Bradford Long 27:48 I love it. Yeah. Like, I like the door. Doreen or what was her name? Doreen. Virtue was Doreen Virtue, you know, she became a crazy fundamentalist Christian.

Shiva Honey 27:59 I know actually, that's like, I just thought that yesterday I was like, this is the anti Doreen Virtue

Stephen Bradford Long 28:04 you are you are the satanic Doreen Virtue? Well, no. So So but what you're saying is really important, because I do think that we live in a world that works against us looking inward, that works against us going up our mountain, and I am purse I you know, not even we don't we don't even have to talk about like, on the level of spiritual fulfillment or, or anything like that. Just being a a well rounded person requires some solitude and some introspection, but but we live in this attention economy that is capitalizing on basically colonizing our inner space, our inner our inner wilds, and it just industrializing our brain, our innermost thoughts. And that's that is how Facebook and Google are the biggest companies on the planet, they hold more wealth than there has than any single entity has in the history of humanity, because they are capitalizing on our innermost thoughts and our focus and, and so we do live in this world that is very deliberately working against the ability to just take a fucking walk in the woods, or just have a quiet cup of tea and journal some and so I do feel like in this current environment, we need to be a bit more deliberate about it. And we do have to make it more ritualistic and more intentional, you know, because of that it because it isn't just going to happen by accident. It's like like that, that kind of introspection, it doesn't happen by accident anymore, because every single second is just gobbled up. Yeah, it's

Shiva Honey 29:51 just occupied. I mean, I've been thinking to just about when I get to like global travel and you know, taking trips to places where you don't can't have it like there's no phones. cell service or anything, and you just have to get by if you're talking to people and you sit by yourself with a journal or a book and you have this, this inner, inner and external, you know, journey that you're going through, and it's just I find those moments. So, you know, I don't even have to travel out of the country, I can travel my own backyard for that. But I find it so rare to even have those moments, you know, intentionally now. And it's used to, I was just talking to my husband yesterday, actually, because I've really started thinking a lot about like internalized capitalism, I saw a cool meme on of course, on Facebook the last day or two just talking about that concept. And I'm really trying to restructure my own life right now. As you can imagine, like everybody, I've had, like, everything's been very precarious, you know, materially and everything else. It's, oh, yeah, for a long time, but since the pandemic happened, especially and I've been like, totally overworking and focused on you know, a lot of stuff that's helpful somewhat, but also probably not as helpful as having a clear mind and like, feeling grounded and everything. So I'm, I'm really looking into being able to create those, even for myself, who's trying to give it to other people, those opportunities for self reflection, more more scheduled, and time off and opportunity to just kind of like, go on those journeys again, because that's where like, a lot of the breakthroughs happen to that's where things really start to clear up and you're able to get some clarity, you know,

Stephen Bradford Long 31:17 until you until you start being chased by an old man in a pickup truck. Exactly. Yeah. I was I was ready to have such a chill sublime experience up on the Mount mountain in October, gorgeous October day. Like I was going up to my mountain, I was going to that inner place. And then I was chased down by a by a scary old man and a pickup truck. Okay. Anyway. Crazy. So yeah, and, you know, we have I think the benefit of ritual is that it it makes going into that introspective space more deliberate in a time of social media and attention. And the attention economy, we have to be a bit more deliberate and maybe even a bit more theatrical. Yeah, to to signal to ourselves, this is serious, like, I'm going to go and meditate, I'm going to go and, and do this ritual and go into the go to that quiet inner space. But the theatrics of it are like a signal to ourselves that this is important. Like, I need to take this seriously, this is sacred. And I don't know, I kind of feel like personally, ritual might be more important now, because of how inundated we are with companies that are constantly trying to steal our, our attention. Yeah,

Shiva Honey 32:45 I think I think you're right. And also with just everything that's happening in the world right now. Like, it's really important, I think, for people to be able to, you know, have that sacred time for themselves. And whether they're working on things internally or externally, just having an opportunity for reflection, self care planning. For me, I've had like tons of anxiety. So rituals really helped deal with that aspect of the pandemic. And everything else that's happening in the country, it's been super important. And I was also going to say, when you were mentioning, again, just finding that that space, that daily space for sacred time, or ritual, or whatever Taro is probably the most used, I guess, ritual, you could say that I have, or the most accessible, I mean, it's just accessible, all you have to do is pull a card and sit with it for a minute, you know what I mean? And then it can kind of live in your brain for a while. And it's quick and you don't have to like you know, light all your candles and like, you know, meditate necessarily or like have a big to do about it. It's you

Stephen Bradford Long 33:38 don't have to bring out your camp to sacrifice don't have. So how do you have? So for people who, who have no experience with Taro, or oracle cards at all? What does your practice with taro look like?

Shiva Honey 33:56 Sometimes the simplest practice will be just like I'm thinking of an idea. And I'll ask a question. And like, how do I do this? Or what should I keep in mind when I'm going through this? Or is there something I should be focusing on and I'll shuffle the deck and just like pull a card. But if I'm reading for other people, or I'm doing something more substantial, I'll do like, I usually use two decks. And I have a deck that's just the Major Arcana, which for those of you who don't know, is a small part of the larger deck that deals specifically with like big, big themes, ideas, life changes, that sort of thing. So I'll pick I'll shuffle and I'll pick one card from the Major Arcana, then I'll do kind of like a three card Past, Present Future or I like to call like foundational present future. So just different different elements to think about when you're kind of when you're dealing with an issue that you want to dissect a little bit more and I'll just sit with that for a while and kind of think about what what lessons I'm being you know, maybe I should be aware of and where my energy should focus. I, I started about two years ago, I started teaching my husband how to read as well, and we I think we're about to start getting back into this, we used to pick a tarot card of the week. And we would sit together on like a Sunday, and then just talk about, like how it would apply how it applies to our life this week, you know what I mean? Or maybe like how we could use the wisdom from the card and what we're dealing with in the next week. And it gave us a really cool opportunity to just to connect with one another and in a more intimate way, and to just ruminate on some of some of the bigger ideas of what we're going through, and how we might be able to support each other and support ourselves, you know, as the week goes on, so

Stephen Bradford Long 35:30 that's lovely. Yeah, that's awesome. You also have some music, and I downloaded some of it, and it is gorgeous. It's like, my kind of music. It's like spooky and atmospheric and very meditative. So talk about your music some and what are you trying to accomplish with music that you're that you're writing and performing? Yeah.

Shiva Honey 35:55 So last year, around this time, I had my first campaign, my crowdfunding campaign, which was for the devil's tome. And as part of that campaign, I had put down that I would, if we hit the stretch, our stretch goal, we I would release some music with solution that was satanic ritual music. So that idea had been ruminating in my brain for a while, because I didn't, you know, there's like satanic artists and that sort of thing. But none of them were quite doing what I was hoping to kind of tackle, I guess. And Lucien and I had been collaborating for a bit on music, a little bit of live music for some performances we were doing. We were DJing together, and he has quite a bit of musical history and experience. So I talked to him about and he's like, Sure, let's do it. And things get derailed for a bit. But the main idea is that we're going to produce a record. That's kind of the I would say, like the completion of the devil's tome cycle. So you've got the devil's tone book, the deck and the record. And the idea for the record is to come up with basically a song or at least a song for each solo ritual in the book of the devil's tome, but perhaps more so. A couple of weeks ago, we released the stretch goal rewards to those Indiegogo backers which we we set up a file and stuff and sent everybody who had supported the campaign to get and the music's not currently on any, like file sharing, you know, there, it's not on like Apple Music or anything else. It's not for sale, but can probably find it through talking to me to some of your satanic friends. So it was kind of an interesting experiment, just like send it, I kind of liked it to send it out to, you know, just a discreet amount of people and have it be kind of like the secret thing. But it's kind of like the sketches of the bigger project that will come out next year, which will be like a full record, that will correspond just as the dip corresponds to the devil's tome. So I use ritual all the time in my personal practice, whether and also when I'm doing bigger rituals as well, whether when I was doing rituals at Salem, which is where I usually am this time of year, but because of COVID, of course, it can't be at th TST HQ, but when I'm doing ritual with groups, music is a really big part of setting the atmosphere and getting people's minds engaged into the space that we're about to work in. And when I do it for myself, it also has served as a place you know, to get my mind in the right place. But it also can be like super evocative and emotional for me, depending on what I'm working on. So the idea is to create satanic ritual music that can be used with ritual from the devil's tome, or for whatever people want to use it, you know, they can listen to it for fun, or they can incorporate it into their own rituals. So I'm super excited to finish that up. We've got like, I think two or three songs written so far, and we've got quite a few more to go, in addition to the ones that were released a couple of weeks ago, but we're the release that we did a couple of weeks ago also was just that was recorded live basically. And it's kind of a, you know, a small sampling of what we will be able to do once we're able to, you know, get in the studio and make it happen, but I'm super excited about it. It's It's something I've been thinking about for a couple of years, and the prospect of actually working on it. This winter is really exciting. So

Stephen Bradford Long 39:01 that's awesome. Yeah, because it really is gorgeous and haunting and listening to it. You know, I did lots of religious music. I was a vocal performance major in college. So yeah, so I did a lot of church music and Renaissance and Baroque music and so on. And I could tell Listen, it just felt deeply religious to me, like, Oh, this is this is something that would happen in a satanic monastery in the Renaissance or something like that. That's the what, that's the vibe that I was getting like, like these would be you know, satanic nuns in a cave somewhere like the movie dark waters. It felt deeply religious to me. So when when you're when the music is more accessible, I do hope that everyone will go check it out because it is pretty awesome.

Shiva Honey 39:58 Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. I just I'm so excited about it. I can't wait to get it out to the masses.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:04 Now you're also doing so you're doing stuff with satanic planet as well.

Shiva Honey 40:07 Yes. Yes, I am. I am. I don't know if I'm officially a member of the band yet, but I did. I did vocals on a couple of tracks like we're still figuring out. Okay, great. So but it's that stuff I'm super excited about to Lucian sent me just a couple tracks a couple of final master tracks for that record. And they sound like really scary and really good. Like, it's beyond, you know, I'm super, super excited about it. So that and that's, that's not I don't think so much ritual music, although they do have a track, that's the on baptism track that actually uses some of the language that Lucien uses is directly from the baptism ritual that I created that's in the devil's tome. So I'm, like, really flattered about that. And we might do if we want, we can tour I think we're gonna do like live on baptism.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:52 That would be great. So for people who who might not know, could you explain what an on baptism is?

Shiva Honey 40:58 Yeah. So, you know, it can mean different things to different people. But for a lot of folks, a lot of us Satanists especially have religious baggage that we have been given over the years. And, you know, a lot of us had been indoctrinated his kids, when we didn't have much of a choice, a lot of us have been baptized or have had other religious ceremonies that you know, have pledged our souls and our life to deity of some sort. And a lot of us carry with us experiences that have been very harmful from our religious upbringing. So the baptism, the way I frame it, in my head, at least, is that it's an opportunity for us to kind of reclaim, reclaim our independence from that. And it's a way for us to do kind of self healing, to to get rid of, in the ritual that I talked about, in the devil's tome, it deals with this specifically, but to to kind of sever the ties from our religious past that was damaging, and declare our independence as people and to appreciate our own perfection and, you know, declare our belief in ourself, that sort of thing. So it's a way to kind of, I think, reclaim your identity in some ways, and it's a way to heal from religious trauma. So they're not again, this isn't something that everybody has to do just like ritual, but some people feel compelled to be unbaptized. So, you know, I've created a couple of rituals for in baptism, different chapters, and TST have also created different rituals for and baptism, and it's something that folks in our community seem to enjoy quite a bit. And I find really powerful personally.

Stephen Bradford Long 42:28 Yeah, you know, like, a lot of us were baptized as infants as children. And, and like, that was, that was a ritual that we were put through without our consent. And so it can feel really empowering to kind of symbolically undo that, that non consensual ritual. And because, you know, when you really think about it, you know, on the one hand, it's like, well, it isn't like they it isn't, you know, it isn't like they they raped you or anything, like it wasn't, nothing happened to you. So why are you? Why are you so hung up on, on a ritual, but on the other hand, ritual is really powerful. And it's powerful for the people around us. So, like, everyone, and everyone in my life, or everyone in my family remembers when I was baptized as an infant, and it's like, the memory of that ritual and the presence of that ritual lives on, but it was a ritual that I didn't consent to. Right. And, and so it can feel really empowering to, to symbolically reverse that ritual and and own your own autonomy is how I interpret it. And I haven't, I haven't been to a I haven't been to a public on baptism, or a group on baptism, but I'm really thinking of doing one privately for myself. Because the more I think about it, the more I think about the fact that I was, as an infant put through this ritual, that and you know, in front of all of these people that that I didn't consent to, really does, in a way feel violating to me, I don't know, does that make sense?

Shiva Honey 44:17 Yeah, absolutely. And I think, to kind of go back to what we I think we touched on earlier, it's like whether or not we realize it consciously and again, this is something that you can cover through using more mystical means. I mean, our brains have been colonized. Like even if you don't remember the ritual itself, it's a it's a symbolic representation of all the colonized the religious indoctrination in you know, our ways of thinking that were shaped from such a young age the beliefs about ourself that for good or for ill our beliefs about the world for good or for ill, often for Ill like that was that was one of the big symbolic actions that kind of programmed our brains. Yeah, definitely. Super liberating to

Stephen Bradford Long 44:57 do that. And at the very least, It was one of the first, it was one of the first acts of ritual that we took part in with a community that we might not remember. But everyone else remembers, and that has like this echoing effect in our lives. Totally, you know, and so we, we really can't like underestimate the power of a ritual like that. And maybe not everyone experiences it that way. Maybe, you know, maybe there are people who are like, Yeah, whatever, you know, I was confirmed and Catholic Church, just like every fucking everyone else, like, it doesn't matter. It's fine. But then there are others for whom it's like, no, this is this is a really big deal. I feel violated by by that ritual, I wasn't given a say I didn't get a chance to choose, I was committed to Christ before I had a chance to choose him. And that that, to me, personally feels like a violation of my autonomy. Yeah, absolutely.

Shiva Honey 45:57 This is actually one of the more contentious things that I've encountered in the satanic community to not until the last couple of weeks, because I actually really, yeah, because I, I posted, I posted for free on my website, how you can baptize yourself. Because again, for what I the way that I kind of view that the year is like, different seasons bring different opportunity for work. So I think of the end of the year as a time to kind of, you know, break old bonds, prepare yourself for the new year, do a lot of healing work, and that sort of thing, before the New Year gets started. So I was like, alright, it's October, or September, whatever it was, I'm gonna post the on baptism ritual, so everybody has access to it, especially with COVID. Like, we can't get together as groups, I want people to feel like if they, they need to have that, if they need to have an baptism if they need to do it in their lives. Like, here's a one way you can think about it. And you can do it on your own, you know, without a ton of resources and, and hopefully have that healing experience. Right. So I posted it, and then I think it was on Reddit, too. And people were just, I think on Twitter and Reddit, like people were just like, well, I don't eat done baptism, and just like, well, that's stupid, you know, or like that sort of like feeling or just like, wow, like, I can't believe like, people actually need this. How weak minded are they? So it's like the same argument against ritual or whatever. Yeah, all but I'm just like, cool. Like, the good for you.

Stephen Bradford Long 47:13 That's totally fine. You know,

Shiva Honey 47:15 it's so interesting that people had such a response, though. They had to, like, speak up and be like, Well, I don't need this.

Stephen Bradford Long 47:20 I don't, obviously I don't need this. And I'm like, really? Yeah, no, I, I get that. And to me, it has to do with. So back when I was very Christian, you know, there's a foundation called the Freedom From Religion Foundation. And I originally heard that name and, and interpreted it in a very negative light. But now I look back on that phrase, freedom, freedom from religion. And to me, that means freedom from imposed religion, it does not mean the absence of religion, it means personal autonomy. That means not it means the freedom from having religion imposed, and you don't, and you don't need it. If you don't want it. To me that that's really what it comes down to. We have, you know, everyone can practice their own, you know, whatever they think is best for them. We all have freedom from religion, ideally, you know, in an ideal world, we all have freedom from religion, but for those of us who still want it, that's okay.

Shiva Honey 48:36 Yeah, different strokes for different folks, you

Stephen Bradford Long 48:37 know, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I remember listening to, to an interview did with Lucien where it's like, you know, it's like kinky sex. Like, if you need to, if you need to dress up as a grasshopper and be hung upside down, like, go for it. Do your thing.

Shiva Honey 48:54 Yeah, I mean, we're working with our brains. Like, that's what we've got, right? Like, we're working in this material world, with our brains. And a lot of our brains have been programmed in all these different ways. And like, we just have to, I don't know, I'm working on just trying to make my brain the healthiest it can be and like, deprogramming some of the stuff that's harmed me over the years. So it's like a ritual helps with that. It's one of the ways for me to to bring these things that I want to accomplish into reality. You know, it's good.

Stephen Bradford Long 49:20 What I hear a lot, I don't know, maybe this is an uncharitable take, but I hear a level of offense. You'd like people almost find it offensive, that we do ritual, where people almost find it offensive that we do. And and baptism, and I don't mean Christians, I mean, atheists. Yeah. And I wonder, I wonder where that since, assuming that's what it is that there's a tinge of offensiveness to it. I wonder where that sense of offensiveness comes from for them? Yeah, I

Shiva Honey 49:53 think maybe it's just like that lack of nuance, you know, Lucien and I talked, I think quite a bit about that when we spoke on his part. had a cast too, but just the this concept of nuance can appear in so many different ways, I think in the satanic world and in the world, in general, it's just, again, it's like people, you know, instead of chiseling, with a with a, you know, nice light instrument, they're just like hammering away at things. And, again, I think it might just be that people are just have that baggage, they just don't know. You know, they see the hero word and they think one thing and there's no changing that their minds from it, you know what I mean. And then I also think there's a sort of superiority complex that some people have, which is normal and like that, you know, I'm, I'm a better XY or z because I do this, or I don't do this. And, and to me, it's just part of the human condition, maybe like that, or upset about things because, you know, they're the most rational or the most atheist or

Stephen Bradford Long 50:46 the whatever it is the most rational atheists ever. And I, I could never do it because I'm not rational. I know, I know, I'm not I know that I need a certain level of enchantment in my life. And, and it makes that makes me happy. Like, I need that, that little tinge of enchantment and I need that tinge of, of mysticism in my life and symbolism, and that doesn't mean that I believe that it is objectively real. But also I'm like, like, you know, presumably, this is the only fucking life we have, like, you know, assuming I don't get shot by a scary old man with a pickup truck prematurely. I, you know, I'll probably have a few, you know, decades on this planet. And then it's, and then I'm done. And so why can't like what's wrong with enjoying ritual during that time? Like, I just don't fucking get it? What? What's wrong with enjoying non theistic religion and ritual? It just makes zero sense to me. Yeah, for

Shiva Honey 51:55 me, anyway, now I've gotten over, like trying to reason with people or argue, like, my reasoning comes with interviews like these, like, I'll tell people what I think in my book, or interviews, or my writing, or whatever, but I'm not going to argue with somebody who doesn't like to do what I do, like, it's just, you know, be free. I don't know person sounds pretty, if you're gonna get that upset about it, it just sounds like somebody's pretty unhappy with a lot of things, as my mother used to always say, I don't know. I just feel like, you know, I'm not here to like argue or to say one way is better. Just like, this is a possible way for me, like the work that I'm doing is a way I seriously was bullied, like when TST first started from a couple people, and I don't think they're even part of TST anymore. But for like all of my different practices, and actually, I think none of them are part of so well,

Stephen Bradford Long 52:42 there you go, there you go. But

Shiva Honey 52:45 for me, it's I just wanted to open the door, because of the great experiences that I've had with these practices, like the healing that it's brought me again, some I have like Complex PTSD, I have like a lot of trauma in my past. And, you know, I've worked really hard to try to build myself up and like build my life at a distance from all that stuff. And, you know, the path that I've taken has really, the practices that I've I've absorbed in use have really helped me quite tremendously to be like a happier person and to build a life that I really enjoy. And so for me, I'm just like, my mission. And having received all that negative feedback initially was like, I know that I've been around TST for a while, like, I have some standing in the organization, I just, I want to give people permission, I want to be the person somebody has to say that it's okay. And like, I guess that person has to be me. So I just want to give people the the opportunity to explore and to explore themselves and to explore these different practices and to know that it's okay, and to know that, like, they're not an idiot, or a bad person, because they want to, you know, practice a different way than somebody else. And that there's options out there. I mean, that's why I like TST so much is because we don't have, you know, there is nobody telling you, like you have to do things this way. There aren't like, you know, there aren't standard rituals really there aren't, or they're not prescribed, scripted. And and what they are, it's, there's no like, you know, here a fence at the top of the chain that's like, I'm this angry person that's gonna go and, you know, going to judge whether or not you're worthy to be in tst. It's like, no, like, this is a great religion, because there's so much freedom, you know, if there wasn't that freedom, then TST wouldn't be what it is. So exactly.

Stephen Bradford Long 54:26 And if, and, you know, they're probably some people who, for whom ritual genuinely doesn't work. And, you know, like, altered states of consciousness might not be great for for some people, or certain forms of ritual might not be great for them. And so there's also the freedom to not practice and that is that is just as important as the freedom to practice. Both sides of that coin, both sides of that coin are necessary and so I don't want anyone to feel may be little or less than for practicing ritual. But I also don't want the inverse of that I don't want anyone to feel belittled or less than or less of a Satanist because they don't have a practice. It really is do what thou wilt. That's it shall be the whole of the law. That's that is it? That is all of it. Absolutely. Cool. Well, I think that's a great note to end on. Do you have any final thoughts for my audience?

Shiva Honey 55:29 Any final thoughts? Like I'm like, Huh? Not really. I was gonna say, um, you know, stay tuned for music. It'll be coming in the coming months for the devil's deck campaign. You can go on my website or social media, and I've got links to the Indiegogo campaign, that campaign is gonna run through, I believe November 1, so the initial printing of the deck is 666 copies. I think we're at maybe like 120 or 30. So far that I've been gone. So I'm super excited. And we'll see how many end up around at the end of the campaign. But if you're interested in getting a copy, you know, try to get sooner than later, probably. And, yeah, thank you for having me on. I really appreciate

Stephen Bradford Long 56:12 it. Of course, it's my pleasure. Anytime I always love talking to you so literally anytime you want to come. I was gonna say no. Oh, yeah,

Shiva Honey 56:21 one more thing, too. I was gonna say I think I told you a privately before but my mom heard our last interview. And, you know, she's a Christian, and she's come more mystical over time, but she really enjoyed it. So you totally are turning like Christians. Like to be more appreciative of Satanism. Like we had we had such an issue when I first became a Satanist. Like, there were months that I didn't talk to her. And she, like, didn't understand where I was coming from at all. But I think really, that that like, bridge the gap, like, I'm so glad being able to talk to you really helped her understand where I was coming from. She has copy the book now. That's amazing. I'm so glad. I think so. Yeah. So thank you for your

Stephen Bradford Long 56:57 work. It's my pleasure. Yeah. No, that's incredible. And, and there really, is this whole I'm encountering this whole weird demographic of Christians who are either becoming Satanists or who are interested in allying themselves or softening towards cool softening towards Satanism. And so it's, it's a weird Venn diagram. It is not something that I ever anticipated but I'm glad it's happening. So it's a beautiful thing. It really is. So I'm I'm delighted to hear that your that your mom responded well to that conversation. All right, well, that is it for this show. As always, the music is buy the jelly rocks and 11 D seven you can find them on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to music there will be links in the show notes. Also this show is sponsored by the Satanic Temple TV go to the satanic temple.tv and you will get your first month free by using my promo code at checkout sacred tension all caps no space they have all kinds of amazing content rituals, feature films, documentaries, live streams talk shows all kinds of stuff on there. So definitely take advantage of that the show is written produced and edited by me Steven Bradford long and it is a production of rock candy media as always Hail Satan and thanks for listening

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