Podcasts/Sacred Tension-Sober Faction9r2kg

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Sober_Faction9r2kg SUMMARY KEYWORDS ritual, recovery, people, meetings, satanic, addiction, community, satanic temple, life, steps, fucking, tenant, faction, programs, struggle, recognize, sober, actions, thinking, find SPEAKERS Will, Jon Eldritch, Joe Dee, Stephen Bradford Long

Will 00:00 You're listening to a rock candy podcast. Hey, I'm Will and they call me the doctor. And I'm Joe, the maestro, we host a podcast called common creatives, where we break apart the art we love to see what makes it tick. Basically, we give you the definitive take on whatever or whoever we're discussing, you don't need to go anywhere else. So check out common creatives wherever you listen to podcasts.

Stephen Bradford Long 00:48 This is sacred tension, the podcast about the discipline of asking questions. My name is Steven Bradford long and we are here on the rock candy Podcast Network. For more shows like this one, go to rock candy recordings.com. In this episode, I speak with the leaders of the incredible new Satanic Temple campaign sober faction, which is a Satanic sobriety community and campaign and tackles sobriety from a satanic perspective. But before we get to that, I have to thank my patrons. My patrons are my personal lords and saviors I truly could not do this without them. And if you would like to join their number, please go to patreon.com forward slash Steven Bradford long or use the link in the show notes for this week. I have to thank terrorists dowless and Fidelis owl, thank you so much. It means the whole world to me. And this is my plea to everyone listening. If you have an independent Creator, who you love, you check up on them every single week, maybe a YouTuber, or a visual artist, or a podcaster or a writer, please support them. If it isn't me, then please let it be another independent creator. Because social media is an incredibly unstable place for small independent creators and we really rely on you to support us directly. So if it isn't me, then please let it be another independent creator. Please keep the independent arts alive. Keep, you know, weird, degenerate, queer, satanic artists like myself going I also have to thank my amazing sponsor of the satanic temple.tv. If you are into weird fringe religious movements, if you are into watching amazing rituals, live streams, there are movie nights, then go to the satanic satanic temple.tv. And at checkout, use my promo code sacred tension all caps, no space and you will get one month free. And finally, special thanks goes to my Discord server every single day. There is new conversation going on there. It is an incredibly thoughtful and kind and intelligent community that embodies the tenets of the Satanic Temple and practices, the kindness and curiosity that I try to model on sacred tension. We not only have Satanists, we also have Christians, progressive Christians, Atheists, pagans, et cetera, et cetera. ET is a fascinating community full of interesting thoughtful people. And if you're interested in joining their number, please just follow the link in the show notes. All right. Well, with all of that, finally out of the way, I'm delighted to welcome ministers Jon Eldritch and Joe Dee to the show. Thank you so much for joining me.

Jon Eldritch 03:39 Thank you so much for having us.

Joe Dee 03:40 So happy to be here.

Stephen Bradford Long 03:42 Yeah. So you are the directors. Am I getting that right? Are you both directors? Yes, co directors, co directors, you are both co directors of sober faction. What is sober faction

Joe Dee 03:55 sober faction is a peer support recovery group and it its purpose is to offer an other avenue to recovery. That's not based in theism. Yeah,

Jon Eldritch 04:10 yeah, the fancy wording of it if you want that, yes, please. Satanic Temple so refraction provides unnecessary space free from pseudoscience and superstitious dogma and trench to most mainstream peer support recovery programs are unique method is guided by TSE seven tenants and utilizes the seven rituals crafted specifically for recovery program. By applying our deeply held beliefs. The ritual process promotes self empowerment while giving structure to each other's unique individual journey.

Stephen Bradford Long 04:38 Perfect. And for those who are new to my show, if you no mother algorithm washed you up on our shores. For this show, in particular, welcome. I'm glad you're here also. TST stands for the Satanic Temple, which is our religious community. The three of us are our ordained ministers within the Satanic Temple and if you want to learn more about it Go to the satanic temple.com. So have you have either of you had any experiences within more of the theistic recovery framework? And if so, could if you're willing, could you share some about that because I have to. So I, you know, I was in coda, which stands for Codependents Anonymous, not necessarily because I was, I had a substance addiction, but because I just had like ragingly dysfunctional relationships, like massively dysfunctional relationships. And so I found myself in Kota. Some of it was extraordinarily helpful. It was really a mixed bag. And I think that's what makes it so hard. That's, that's what has made it so hard for me is there is this mixed bag, where some of what I learned was very, very helpful. And then some of what I learned, I've had to unlearn. So I'm wondering if, if the two of you could share some of your experiences in the more theistic and supernatural list. recovery programs,

Joe Dee 06:10 I will my experience, and it is much shorter than John's. So I'll first many, many moons ago, I attempted to become a part of AAA, I attended to attend meetings, because I needed help with my drinking, and smoking weed and other substances. And it was getting out of hand. And AAA is what comes to mind. For most people initially, like go to AAA meetings. So I walked in to an open meeting and immediately felt out of place I was I just did not feel welcomed. And I didn't even hear anyone speak yet. It was just initially walking into the room because it was mainly white men older. And I, I kind of felt like it was in those movie scenes where someone different walks in and like the record stops, and everyone's right. So I was like, let me just stick it out. And I heard few people speak and again, I just didn't feel like comfortable. I didn't I knew I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing personal stories, because like, I was the minority with my specific experiences being I was also struggling with my identity, my gender identity, my sexuality. And it was not the case for the majority of the people in that room. And I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing, I would feel judged. And especially, that's not even to mention the religious aspect, because I even at the time, was on a journey and looking for a religion that fit because I really did want to be part of a community. But was not down with like a patriarchal God being asked to remove my defects because fuck him, you know, lately. So I attended maybe, I think it was just it was just a couple, a couple of meetings and never went back because I never found a room that I felt comfortable in in that in that universe. And again, like you had mentioned, I don't want to discount the help that it has done for countless people, numerous numerous people I know it has helped even people, members of sober factions still go to some a meetings where they aren't comfortable. It's really depends on where you are and the demographics of the meetings that you attend. But that is my personal experience. On to you, John, I know you have a

Jon Eldritch 09:06 longer one to try to get the abridged version. Like, I give my speaker meeting and there's a long like

Stephen Bradford Long 09:15 a bit move a bit closer to your mic.

Jon Eldritch 09:17 Okay, one second,

Stephen Bradford Long 09:19 if possible. Hey, perfect. sound better say check one more time. Check. One two, check. That'll work. Perfect.

Jon Eldritch 09:27 Awesome. So I started my recovery journey when I got sober living years ago. So still sober today, which is fantastic.

Stephen Bradford Long 09:36 Congratulations.

Jon Eldritch 09:38 Thank you. Thank you. It really, really means a lot to me. And all I had available to me was Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm in the I live in Georgia. So living in the Bible Belt made the recovery opportunities quite limited. I was so dead for it, and terrified to go back to that way, all the way of living, I forced myself to just do whatever I can. You know, the stories, you know, being told, Well, clearly, if you knew what was right for you, you wouldn't be here today. You don't have to believe in God, it can be a God of your understanding. Fake it till you make it. What is it going to hurt you to actually start praying? It's either this or you die. And I was terrified. So I faked it until I made it right. You know, it was a big struggle. And a lot of people I feel who are outside of recovery circles, don't even recognize how religious A

Stephen Bradford Long 10:45 is yes?

Jon Eldritch 10:45 How theistic it is.

Stephen Bradford Long 10:47 And and could we, may I ask you what you were addicted to. During this.

Jon Eldritch 10:53 My drug of choice was alcohol. Okay. But I dabbled in everything. Of course, I used to say I'm John Eldridge, and I'm addicted to whatever you got. But you know, when it comes to, you know, we're step three, no, turn your life and will over to the care of God of your understanding. And as someone who's lived their life as an atheist strongly, so this was before I was into Satanism, I knew anything about it. It was still very much a struggle. And it got to a point where I convinced myself like, forced myself to believe I was just, you know, loosely agnostic, or like, oh, well, there's got to be something out there, right? I can't, I can't disprove it, sort of mindset. So and I was seeing so many people around me his life's changing, right. And I was finding a community of people that were encouraging me, will actually wanted me to do better in life. And people were very helpful. But it's Overtime. You know, I sometimes say the 12 steps worked for me when I needed them until they didn't. It was

Stephen Bradford Long 12:02 I completely relate to that, by the way, that is, that is my experience as well, like they were a vehicle to get me somewhere, and then the vehicle broke down, and they and it didn't work anymore.

Jon Eldritch 12:13 Yeah. And, you know, I was forcing myself to have these beliefs and higher powers. And I went through the whole 12 step process, which there's some very good things in that. And there's also some very, I would say damning things in that process, depending on who's guiding you through it. As Jodi mentioned, it depends on kind of where you are. And living in the Bible Belt definitely created some extra hurdles that I felt were unnecessary. But after about thing was about two or three years sober, I started really having a lot of struggles, and I'll still go into meetings. But everybody around me in these meetings, was regularly talking about these spiritual awakenings, this constant contact with their higher powers and being spoken to and being connected to their higher powers every day. And I started to judge myself, because I didn't have that. I tried, I wouldn't try as hard as I could. And I started questioning, you know, what is wrong with me?

Stephen Bradford Long 13:13 What titles I have this What did trying to connect with your higher power look like?

Jon Eldritch 13:18 Praying on a regular basis? Going doing the steps over and over and over again, talking to my sponsor, you know, the whole the whole, you know, spiel of AAA essentially,

Joe Dee 13:31 picture you like, scrunching up.

Jon Eldritch 13:34 It makes me uncomfortable, just like talking about it still,

Stephen Bradford Long 13:36 no, I, I get that completely. And, you know, there are some people I think, who are just neural neurologically or socially, or environmentally or whatever, not able to have the same religious experiences that they see other people having, and that is okay. But in a place like AAA, it isn't, okay. It's like you have to fit this specific type of mystical experience in order to excel. And there are some people who, for whatever reason, just can't. And instead of that, just being a sort of neurodiversity, it becomes a mark against you as a human being and a your character. And it's awful.

Joe Dee 14:16 Yeah. And it's so damaging to so many people. Yes. John will probably go on to say,

Jon Eldritch 14:25 I was regularly told, you know, when I was trying to share with my community that I don't have this constant contact, and I'm starting to doubt, right, I was told you better find it or you will die. And you will not make it you are doomed to relapse,

Stephen Bradford Long 14:39 Jesus Christ,

Jon Eldritch 14:40 the in. I started making some friends in the community there was actually made friends with a guy who was openly atheist, and he was struggling, but he was making it work. And he would openly talk about being atheist in the meetings, and he would get so much flack for it. And he became a good friend of mine and unfortunately, that friend Did relapse and die. And the next meeting afterwards. This was I was about three years sober at this point. The next meeting afterwards, people in the meeting would say things if you only would have found Jesus, he'd still be here with us today. If he wasn't so stubborn, he'd still be here with us today. And that's when I just had it. I just couldn't do it anymore.

Stephen Bradford Long 15:23 Yeah, but fuck that.

Jon Eldritch 15:25 Yeah, I was I just like it took everything not to just flip the table.

Stephen Bradford Long 15:29 Of course. Of course it did. Yeah. So basically, you're being told, if you don't become a theist, you're fucking doomed, and your friend was doomed, because they were an atheist is basically what they told you. Yeah.

Jon Eldritch 15:44 And I strongly believe if he would have found an accepting community, he would have a much higher chance this was still being here today, if he would have found a community that accepted Him for who He was, and his beliefs, and was not forced fed dogma and Christian values, he would have had a much stronger chance, you know, I can't, you know, feel that Hindsight is 2020. But that was kind of one of the missions like it set me forth later, you know, several years later to make a difference. That's kind of like attributes, in a sense, underlying, for me.

Joe Dee 16:21 Yeah, and for my story, just to kind of piggyback off of that, personally, I probably would have been on my recovery journey, much sooner, if I was able to find a community where I did feel accepted. Because I had a cycle of relapse, like after leaving the couple of meetings that I had gone to a meetings that I added on to, I tried to do it on my own, I didn't think I would find a place where I fit. So I'm like I could do on my own. And I couldn't I for whatever reason, relapsed would try again, relapse. And it wasn't until meeting John where it's stuck, where I was determined to I really, actually I was scared the pandemic, but just started and I, I was really scared that it was going to be bad news, being cooped up working from home alone, that I was going to relapse and spin out of control. So I was determined to find something and it was just, you know, by searching online, for I was already a member of tsp at the time, kind of just searching satanic community satanic recovery. And I found John, and he a group he had started. And that was it. Like, I immediately felt welcomed and accepted and motivated. And in my recovery, not just doing it, you know, reluctantly, but actually motivated and inspired to, to heal myself and get well and keep going.

Stephen Bradford Long 18:10 So I think what I'm hearing the two of you say is that the within the recovery culture, for lack of a better word, and it very much is a culture like it very much is its own little kind of subculture, and lifestyle and lifestyle. Absolutely, it really pushes out a ton of people and leaves a lot of people on their own, because of the emphasis on theism and supernaturalism. And because of that there are a lot of people who could be helped that aren't. Because in America, the I don't know what it's like overseas, but definitely, you know, I am here in the Bible Belt, every single fucking recovery program is Christian in some way. And then you get into the courts, and, you know, people, judges will court order someone to go to a Christian recovery program or to do a, and I'm like, how is that not a fucking violation of church and state? Like? And there are a ton Sorry, go on.

Jon Eldritch 19:21 Yeah, there's that's actually interesting point, because here now and so we're faction now that we are an official campaign under the Satanic Temple, we are actually able to fill that role. We've had members who have court mandated meetings. And since we are an official organization, we're able to sign off on those meetings. So members do not have to go and deal with the undue burden of religious dogma. It is very much a First Amendment issue.

Stephen Bradford Long 19:46 Absolutely. That's amazing. That's amazing that you're able to do that, because that's actually something that I have been concerned about for a really, really long time. Because I have a lot of friends who have had, you know, court ordered recovery programs and they have all been In Christian, the recovery programs have all been Christian and that they so they've basically had to like grin and bear this the the Christian dogma when their life is already brutal enough as it is, you know, it's like they're already going they already have the burden of you know having to transform through this addiction they're already burdened enough and to put on that undue burden of, of religious dogma is just awful. So I'm, it's awesome to hear that you're able to do that.

Joe Dee 20:37 Yeah. And just to be clear like, again, we we understand that everyone's path is different everyone's recovery is different. And Christian based recovery programs do help a lot of people. Absolutely. It's not just there isn't only Christian based recovery systems like now, new ones are popping up, you know, their smart recovery and recovery Dharma and you know, whatever else there is there, there are others, but AAA still remains the largest and the most mainstream, and in the most accessible, because it's everywhere. And one of you know, the the originals, I would assume

Stephen Bradford Long 21:25 absolutely the flagship. It's the it's what people think of when they hear recovery.

Joe Dee 21:31 Yeah, and I know courts do say that, you don't have to go to AAA. Find another one. But a lot of the times, there isn't. Another option for a lot of people in their circumstances are where they are. So it's amazing. And so makes us so happy that we're able to do this virtually, and reach people wherever they are. And we do have members all over the world. We have members in Australia and the UK, and Germany and all over the country in Canada. So, so just to offer another option and keep that pluralistic nature of Absolutely,

Stephen Bradford Long 22:15 yeah. So to make completely clear, you're not trying to dismantle AAA or Christian recovery programs because the truth, the truth is, I know a lot of people who have been helped by Christian recovery programs, primarily because they're Christian. And, and that helps them and that's important. And so it isn't, so you aren't trying to dismantle religious recovery programs, you're just trying to add another option, so that people can find the route that works best for their own path is what I'm hearing you say,

Jon Eldritch 22:51 exactly. And before before, so reflection and the group that Jodie mentioned earlier that I started. I mentioned my friend passed away and then not going to meetings. Several years later, I started a group called without a prayer, which was a secular 12 step recovery group. When the pandemic rolled around, and end up going online, he started off just as a local meeting here in Atlanta. And it caught a lot of flack from the recovery community, people constantly trying to have the meeting shut down just because it was secular. We just took God the God language out. That's how God found us when we started having online meetings. And after a while, we still recognize that even with removing that language, the program itself, is still so entwined, like in rooted with Christian concepts of values. That the process of giving yourself up to something greater than yourself. I kind of say, I've sinned in the past, as a Satanist, I can find, you know, a personal struggle with the 12 steps in the first two words, which is we admitted, like why do you have to admit to being an alcoholic, that means wrong wrongdoing. And substance abuse disorder is a medically recognized issue. You wouldn't have to admit to having any other medical problems like you wouldn't have to admit to having polio.

Stephen Bradford Long 24:18 You know, what's you know, what's interesting about that I recently had a revelation because I've been going through my own like little mini addiction Apocalypse with nicotine where through COVID and especially the election, the presidential election, which just just about fucking killed me, you know, but through that whole thing, I started vaping the nicotine salt disposables and I got it and I was like Mega dosing nicotine. It was just like an I got so massively addicted. And then I would try to quit cold turkey it would run Whoo in the next couple of days, and then I would crash and then I would start vaping again, and then but I had to quit vaping because it fucks with my sleep. And so I went between horrific insomnia because I was mega dosing vaping to like, you know, the the terrible, horrific homicidal mood swings from relapse, that has been six months, six or seven months straight. It's just been awful. And then finally, it's like, It finally occurred to me about I want to say a month ago, this is a drug. What do you do with drugs you taper off? It isn't a moral failing, it has nothing to do with character. It's just a chemical. And what do you do with chemicals, you just taper yourself off them like any other fucking drug. And so that's what i so i. So I slowly, you know, like lowered my nicotine level. And now I'm at zero nicotine vape. And now it's like, my life has stabilized. But but it's, it's incredible how with something like nicotine, it took me that long to realize that, because it's the default is the default that this is a character flaw instead of a biochemical reality.

Joe Dee 26:22 Right. So I can talk for days about that, and the stigma and the history of the stigma surrounding substance use, and the way it has been handled historically, both in the medical field and in society. And that is something else that we at sober faction, really try to hammer home is to have an understanding of what's happening to you mentally and physically, when it comes to substance use and addiction. Because in the more mainstream recovery programs like AAA and others, there's no talk about what addiction actually is and what it's doing to you. It's just asking this mythological figure to remove your character defects to cure you magically. And there's no basic understanding of what addiction is and how it's affecting you. So we strive to give that information, find that information, scientific articles and research. So people have an understanding of what's happening, and they're not just panicking, or like beating themselves up because they can't stop something. It's understand. Just take a moment to read and understand and ask your doctor's questions and go to medical professionals and find actual medical scientific research on addiction. So you know what's happening and know what to expect when you're going through withdrawal. Or if you're just thinking about starting your recovery, you know, so you so you know, what to expect and how to handle it the proper way.

Jon Eldritch 28:06 Exactly. We, we and then something I've noticed, you know, we did this organically naturally when we started so perfection meetings. And it wasn't until a while later that it dawned on me like Wait no one else and other meetings say this. And we opened our meetings, recommending clarifying one, we do not consider our meetings, a professional form of therapy. And to

Stephen Bradford Long 28:27 Yes, we had to just like, interject. Yes, thank you.

Jon Eldritch 28:34 Like, like one we don't consider meetings, professional form of therapy and to me encourage anyone struggling with substance abuse disorder or struggling with any form of addiction to seek help from a medical professional. Absolutely. I was just saying to Donovan, like, I've never heard that once. No

Stephen Bradford Long 28:48 mean either, either. Yes, he was going to meet and, you know, that is all incredibly satanic to me. Because to me personally Satanism is a religion of the body. It is a carnal religion, you know, what Pinna mu calls a carnal religion meaning it is it is about material stuff and material conditions and, and not being concerned with the next life with the spiritual but being concerned with the here and now the carnal the material and the material conditions and what science says about those material conditions. And so to me that emphasis on Well, what does the medical literature say? The most up to date up to date medical literature say about what addiction is and what to expect from it that just that is so Satanic and liberating it is because suddenly it's not on you, like it's no longer on you. Because you're a terrible person. You are experiencing this because you're a biochemical creature. And that isn't a character flaw.

Joe Dee 29:56 Right? And it's usually you have The substance use issues and then you're immediately criminalized. And it's through the criminal justice system that you're forced to go to meetings or a program that you don't identify with that you don't agree with that has no medical basis whatsoever. And you're supposed to just stop, you know, and get better, and get thrown back out there now that you're stigmatized as a criminal, a criminal and an addict. Like it, it it's so demoralizing and dehumanizing. And so, like, ignorant, yes. The whole, the whole system, the way it's structured, and it's starting to creep into, you know, modern times and progressive missteps. Yeah. Like you see, they're trying to destigmatize language surrounding substance use in the medical field. But it's taken way too long. To be recognized as what it is, and it's a medical issue. I mean, I'm happy for the progress that is being made. And hopefully it gets better and hopefully sober faction will be a part of that.

Stephen Bradford Long 31:16 Absolutely. So Oh, no, you're good. So in the in the net, in the time that we have left, I really, really want to go through the seven rituals of super faction. So these are incredible. And so the first ritual is in our suffering, we had a moment of clarity, we realized that we had lost ourselves and recognized addiction as our adversary. What does this ritual mean to you?

Jon Eldritch 31:48 I'm going to try not to talk in an hour about each ritual.

Stephen Bradford Long 31:53 By the way, I Are we okay, if we go a bit past nine, do you have good? Joe? Are you? Are you good? Okay. Do you prefer Joe or Jodi? Either one,

Joe Dee 32:05 no preference. Okay.

Stephen Bradford Long 32:07 Perfect. So if we, I have a feeling we might go a bit over with these rituals. So I just want to double check. Okay, so So how does this first ritual relate to your own experience?

Jon Eldritch 32:17 So the ritual one thing first, it's good to kind of explain what is the ritual process, right, you read the seven rituals. But what does actually mean? With each ritual process, we actually have a full, essentially a full workbook, each ritual is accompanied with a list of self reflective questions. And then a non theistic satanic ritual, accompanying it, to help cement and bring bring for self empowerment catharsis, for each step of the way. So there's actually a precursor ritual, which is to dedicate your own recovery time to tell yourself say, I'm ready to get started on this journey, I love the baby step to have your own little book to write your recovery work into, before you start on some virtual one time. Laos, especially allows a lot of members to kind of dip their toes into a virtual process. For those who are completely new to TST, and the idea of virtual and things of that nature, with a ritual one, though, you know, having that moment of clarity, realize we have lost ourselves recognize addiction as our adversary. This is from the get go is so much more empowering, we are caught, like we focus so strongly on self empowerment, self compassion, and the difference of admitting powerlessness. And then having a moment of clarity and recognize an addiction as an adversary allows me to feel there's something for me to fight against. Right, there's something for me to fight back and get back my life. And through the ritual process, my favorite part of it is the first question in the ritual process, which is what do I want to change? Because that can evolve over time what I wanted to change when I was, you know, five days sober is vastly different when I want to change at 11 year sober and it allows for a wider interpretation and, and so forth. Throughout the ritual, after you finish the self reflective questions, then goes into a distraction ritual to start it

Stephen Bradford Long 34:30 off. Could you explain what a destruction ritual is for people who are unfamiliar?

Jon Eldritch 34:35 Sure, this is a we have a pretty pretty awesome like solo destruction ritual. And the process of that ritual is you would write down any feelings or thoughts or anything that comes to your mind about your your substance abuse or whatever your your struggle is, onto a piece of paper. You would then put that piece of paper onto a plate. We then take a small black handle and light, put it on top of the paper and the plate and light it and watch the black wax melt down and kind of cover up everything that you just wrote. And once that cools, you then get to smash the crap out of that plate. It feels so fucking good. Like, we've had people in the meetings like I went and smashed another plate yesterday.

Stephen Bradford Long 35:25 That's, that's, I mean, catharsis for people who are unfamiliar with his concept of nontheistic ritual, I highly recommend everyone go listen to my interview with Shiva, honey, about satanic ritual and about how, you know, these cathartic, I would even go so far as to say mystical experiences can happen in a non Supernaturalists, atheistic context and can still be very helpful.

Joe Dee 35:50 Yeah, so actually a couple of our rituals, drew inspiration from sheep as book, The Devil's tone. And just briefly, for those still maybe wondering, so ritual is, there has been scientific and psychological and anthropological research into ritual and the benefits. So there is there, there is a ton of research out there that has shown that non theistic ritual, solo and group ritual, have psychological benefits. And there's all sorts of reasons that I won't go into here. But for those who may be questioning, like, I thought you, you know, we're kind of promoting science back to recovery. And now you're doing like this crazy ritual stuff. But ritual very much is based in science, and definitely has psychological benefits, and destruction. Ritual itself, is kind of like setting intention, what most rituals are setting intention. So this is just focusing on things that you want to change, and you want to get rid of taking some sort of action in that and motivating yourself to do the work towards it. So it's getting that motivation and like getting that kind of euphoric sense, after you smash that plate. You know, thinking about focusing on all those things you want to rid yourself of feeling good about it, and then taking the next steps to do just that. In actual reality.

Jon Eldritch 37:30 Yeah, I think the important part of having a destruction ritual as a part of ritual one as well, since ritual, one is about recognizing addiction as your adversary, having a destruction ritual followed by that, really, I'm taking that physical action and being ready to fight. I mean, ready to fight for myself and fight for you know, not like physically fight, to emotionally move forward and recognize I can have the strength to do this, ready to

Joe Dee 37:59 throw down certain boxes.

Stephen Bradford Long 38:03 I mean, that's, that's what it can feel like though, that very often, that's what it can feel like a because it is a physical battle, sometimes it feels like it, your whole body is engaged in in the process. The next ritual is ritual. Number two, we decided our will and authority over ourselves would be reborn through adopting a new way of life. I love this one. This is like the resolving to be the phoenix from the ashes.

Joe Dee 38:40 Yeah, again, we really wanted folks to feel like they were in control. They're the ones taking the action to change their lives, a lot of the 12 step language and work is steeped in guilt and shame. We really wanted to counteract that, and empower people. That's just what this really I feel like ritual to and that language that wording emphasizes and brings to light is that you are the one you're the one taking action you're in control of over your own life and taking the steps to make it better.

Stephen Bradford Long 39:24 You know, as you're saying that it I'm just thinking through the original 12 steps and how disempowering they are in comparison to these like I admitted that my life had become unmanageable. Like that might be technically true. But if you're saying it in i My life has become unmanageable, my you're basically saying I have oh and isn't there a specific line I had become I am powerless over my over Yeah, I'm powerless. It says I am powerless. And I'm like, is that really The message that you want to send to people who are struggling with a particular illness is that you are powerless. I don't know. Like it's just bringing home all over again, I think in a way that hadn't landed before how disempowering the 12 steps are, it's such a stark difference, ya know? And when really the most compassionate thing to do is to say, No, this is this is your life. And you are your mighty and you can you, you can change this like that is so much more empowering.

Joe Dee 40:37 Yeah. And it really just that one stuff that you mentioned, with using the restoring you to sanity is just awful.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:47 Yes, it is.

Joe Dee 40:49 Take into account like mental health issues.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:52 Yes, it is incredibly ablest as well. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Dee 40:57 So throw there are two. So much wrong. For real.

Jon Eldritch 41:04 For me ritual to ritual one, in that process. It's, you know, recognizing things need to change. Right? Right. virtual ones like, things are tough, things are not going the way they need to be. I'm not living the life I want to live. And ritual to for me is it is possible. It's about having hope. Recognizing I can do this, I'm seeing other people in my community do this. And it's very much Connect. Each ritual very much connects with a tenant in ritual to very much connects with tenant to that the struggle for justice is an ongoing necessary pursuit. And in this regard, it's a struggle for justice against my adversary. Struggle for Justice for me, is worth having, this is worth doing right. It is possible.

Stephen Bradford Long 41:54 I love that Ritual number three reads, we made a commitment to take responsibility for our own actions in the past, present and future focusing only on what we could control. I fucking love this. I'm sorry, what was that

Jon Eldritch 42:11 as a ritual three is the as a doozy.

Stephen Bradford Long 42:14 Yes, it is. So it sounds like a much better and much more empowering version of steps, four and five. Which I never made it past step five. I step five, fuck me up so hard. Which was

Jon Eldritch 42:33 moral inventory of step four. Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 42:34 a fearless moral inventory. The fearless moral inventory part. I was fine with it. I was like, Yeah, I've been a douchebag. It was the who like, Yeah, I've been a terrible person. I'm happy to admit that. It was the making amends part that that was so demoralizing.

Jon Eldritch 42:55 So here's an issue that, you know, my personal experience with that moral inventory that you spoke of, and in the 12 steps, and like you said, you had no problem making a shameless. Oh, yeah. And no, I can do

Stephen Bradford Long 43:09 that. So well, I can do that all fucking day. I will tell you, I practically have a podcast about it. All the things that are wrong about me.

Jon Eldritch 43:21 And you know, a lot of people in early recovery are deeply struggling with depression. Yeah. And, you know, my, that found myself included, and writing a shameless of like this, all this is doing right now is going, Look, I'm right there. Here's this list of how bad I suck. And it's just proof that I suck. Wow,

Stephen Bradford Long 43:41 I hadn't thought of that. Actually, no, you're completely right about that. Yeah. And he

Jon Eldritch 43:46 fucked me up, in fact, me up pretty bad. Same,

Stephen Bradford Long 43:48 I think. Because, you know, I was at a point in my life where I needed to believe something good about myself. Like, just one good thing. It didn't matter what it was like, like, you know, oh, he seems good in the shower. Like whatever the fuck it is, I needed to believe at least one good thing about myself to get through the day. And the 12 steps did not give that to me.

Jon Eldritch 44:19 Yeah, and, you know, that's a good thing. You brought that up, because you start that process of finding qualities of yourself within ritual to second seventh question in ritual to is what are my qualities and strengths that I am proud of? There you go, just to start there. And when we got to ritual, three, when Jodi and I were designing this, we've spent the most time on this ritual in particular. It's broken up into three parts of past, present, and future. And we desperately wanted to make sure that nobody was going to turn this into a shame list. That it's about recognizing what the past part it's about recognizing what from my past is weighing on me today? Right? What from my past is controlling my actions today? And how can I move past this? We very much borrowed heavily from a CBT cognitive behavior therapy practices of the ABC float, problem solving technique, something we found most beneficial, and it works very well from a satanic perspective, to be able to look back at situations and kind of break them apart in an unbiased way. And then how it tried to come see if there's what our new healthy way like and move forward from this.

Stephen Bradford Long 45:35 I love that. Jodi, what are your What are your thoughts on this one?

Joe Dee 45:42 Basically the same? Sure. Both of you have talked about, you know, I feel the same way and when, you know, with without a prayer, and Jonathan in Jonathan's group prior to so perfection, like he said, we were still kind of working on a secular 12 step approach, and reaching the steps where I had to do the moral inventory. I was just like, Nope, I had a sponsor at the time, through without a prayer just ghosted her. Like, I know, I'm never doing this,

Stephen Bradford Long 46:25 the long grand tradition of ghosting your sponsors.

Jon Eldritch 46:33 Yeah, I'm so glad you didn't ghost completely.

Joe Dee 46:37 Because I knew I needed to do something. But this I was definitely not doing that like, and now thinking through this from a satanic perspective. And, like, I, I know, I'm fallible. I know I've done terrible things that I'm not proud of. But now I know that I, I'm not that person. I don't have to continue to think about it, and have it haunt me to this day, like, I'm moving forward. And I'm, and I reconciled what I could. And I'm continuing to try and improve upon myself and be the best person I can be. And it's going to be a constant evolution, which is, like I hearing that and reading this ritual, instead of saying, Nope, I'm never doing this. It's like, oh, okay, I think I can do this. It's a toilet, your mindset is completely different. Reading, reading these words, and reading these rituals, language matters. And the way you you construct these sorts of programs and these processes, the words that you use, and the language you use, and totally matters, and it matters to each individual, whether they're going to go back out there, or whether they're going to continue this journey and get better. And, yeah, and that's what was in the forefront of our minds when we were constructing them.

Jon Eldritch 48:10 Another big part that I've seen countless people run into with a more the moral inventory approach is,

Stephen Bradford Long 48:20 and just just so that we can clarify for the non recovery, people listening, the moral inventory, phrasing that comes from the 12 steps, not from the seven rituals, just just so that people are clear on what we're talking about. Sorry, go on.

Jon Eldritch 48:36 Yeah. So from the 12 step approach, just to clarify, some something that is, comes up a lot. And when in the in the process, you go through, like every person you have a resentment against, for example, and you have to find out what you did wrong. And when it comes to history of abuse, that is extremely damaging. Even coming from myself looking at a history of abuse in my life, and figuring out why it was my fault. really messed me up, like, and that is another part like we will never in a million years, try to make that part of our recovery process. When you choose practicality and recognize that like we're, we're talking a lot about the past apart, just not letting the past weigh on us so much. And then the next part is present, which is a lot about gratitude. A lot about finding what's good about you today, what is what are what are friendships that you fostered that did well what are some achievements you've had in your life? What are some skill sets you've developed in addiction that could serve you today, Jodi and I constantly joke about the superpower of being an addict to always be able to get what you really want. Yes, it is a

Stephen Bradford Long 49:52 superpower. By the way, just a heads up a massive thunderstorm is rolling in and so if I say suddenly vanish. That's what happened. I don't think it'll happen. But it sounds really fucking huge outside. So if by little cabin up here on the mountain suddenly gets swept away by a hurricane, that's what happened, just a heads up. I will try to reconnect. I'll try to reconnect to the zoo, if it does go out anyway, sorry, go on. And then

Jon Eldritch 50:25 the the third part of ritual three is about future. And that's mostly focusing on fears and anxieties. We found, you know, I found my experience that while if I'm focusing on resentments, or anger, or my past, or shame, I'm thinking about the past. If I'm feeling anxious, or staying on fears, I'm thinking about the future too much. But when I'm focusing on gratitude, I'm able to be more grounded in the present, and to try and look at what are some of these fears in my life? And what are irrational misconceptions that I've built upon myself? And what are new, healthier outcomes, I can try to restructure this in practice in my life. I love that says ritual three in a nutshell,

Stephen Bradford Long 51:13 perfect. Yeah. And if I'm understanding correctly, it's like each of these, each of these rituals, really has a whole set of basically literature and rituals that you have created to work people through that ritual, which I think is awesome that that's beautiful. So ritual four is we acknowledge the behaviors and patterns of thinking that we found to be unacceptable, or unhealthy. And once again, I'm just struck by how affirming and validating this is, while not shying away from being like, yeah, you might have fucked up and you can add and you know, these patterns of thought have have messed you up massively, but it isn't disempower. The way this is worded. Is is so empowering. What are your thoughts on this one? How is this interacted with your own recovery process?

Jon Eldritch 52:08 You want to go first God.

Joe Dee 52:10 So this after the huge ritual three, which is a lot of work, and just self reflection, this is almost like when you're go down the roller coaster? And then you kind of go, you know, you're like, Huh, okay. I could, that was, that was a lot, but I'm good now. And this is kind of like, that feel good. Like you said, I know, I had these issues that I didn't know how to deal with before. And I I'm kind of coming to terms with them, I'm recognize it, recognizing it, and actually, consciously thinking about them, which when you're in active addiction, you're not really consciously thinking about your actions and behaviors in in sort of a productive way, you know. So now, this ritual, I'm like, Okay, I'm sitting down, I'm actually thinking about my behaviors, my characteristics, and building myself back up, again, figuring out what works, what didn't work in the past, and what's working for me now. And one of the things is just being in this community, and having that support system and knowing I can reach out, it's like checking that off the box. Like, that's something simple things like that are huge. When you're in recovery, and in life in general, like, just taking responsibility for your actions, and trying to improve yourself is huge. And I feel like for anyone,

Stephen Bradford Long 53:50 it's almost like, you know, when someone is in crisis, be it with addiction or something else. It's so easy. It's like the natural route is to not really deeply examine our thought patterns, right? And what this ritual is doing is kind of demanding or encouraging the person going through these rituals to actually sit down and do the thing that is so hard to do, which is Think critically about where we are in how we got here, and what are the processes we you know, think critically about, about the operating system in the background? Instead of just saying, Well, God will fix it. It's like, No, we're, you know, we're going to think critically about the operating system that's functioning in the background. Exactly.

Jon Eldritch 54:52 And thematically in a sense, you know, I'm talking about ritual. One is kind of recognizing things need to change ritual two is is about having hope that things can change. And ritual three and four is where you start doing the work. Like what is it that needs to change? And then Module Four is, how do I go about changing it? Getting sober isn't about just stopping drinking? If it was that easy, we all would have done it. It's about recognizing what are the patterns of behaviors we recognize in our life, that have led us back to that time and time again? Why do I feel the need to constantly go back to it? Despite how many times it's gotten away in my life?

Joe Dee 55:34 Now, I just want to say it's just funny because that's another like, kind of ongoing joke and super faction, like when we have our meetings in the little chat, because zoom chat like Well, have you tried stopping?

Jon Eldritch 55:44 We just tried stopping drinking. Stop heroin.

Stephen Bradford Long 55:51 And the funny thing, though, the terrible and funny thing is that we actually say that to ourselves with addiction, like, we actually that's what I have done for the past seven or six or seven months with nicotine, it's like, well, have you tried stopping? Have you tried to going cold turkey? And even after like, I don't know what, what it was, you know, which number of relapse it was it was all over again? Well, have you tried stopping?

Joe Dee 56:21 actually going to try and stop this time?

Stephen Bradford Long 56:25 Exactly. Like I'm going to actually actually try. And then if when it doesn't work, it's like, I'm going to actually actually actually try.

Jon Eldritch 56:33 Okay, the amount of rationalization and minimization that we'll give ourselves in active addiction is astounding. There was always a reason why it was acceptable. For me beginning as fucked up as I did, as frequent as I did. There was always an excuse why it was okay. And it was never had anything to do with my choices in life, and never had anything to do with addiction or anything like that. And by going through this ritual process, I'm able to look at like, oh, wait, no, that has led me to this time and time again. Oh, wait, there is something I'm really hanging on to that's kind of when we say Don't let people take free, take, get to live in your head for rent free, right? And don't let your past enslave you anymore. So really be able to, that's what ritual three and four is very much about is, you know, recognizing, you know, going through that list on ritual three, and then going through ritual forms, like okay, you know, I've noticed I've been, for example, very codependent, how do I go about? How can I go about evolving away from that? Or I tend to lie a lot, right? How can I go over and try to do that, or something we talked about? More so and so perfection I found in any other recovery program, is I don't set boundaries for myself. Right? And that's very common, and how important it is to not let the world walk all over you and have respect for yourself and from from others and respect for yourself from yourself.

Stephen Bradford Long 57:58 You know, one of the things that I love I'm sorry, Joe, were you going to say something?

Joe Dee 58:02 Oh, no, I'm just like, Okay.

Stephen Bradford Long 58:08 By the way, I'm hearing a cat who's your cat? What's, what's their name?

Joe Dee 58:11 That's pancakes, who I feel like everyone in Super faction knows very well.

Stephen Bradford Long 58:17 I was gonna say something. What the fuck was I gonna say? Um, well, I can't remember what I was going to say. So we'll that's a sign that we need to move on to Ritual number five. So ritual five reads, upon acknowledging these facets of ourselves, we began the practice of continual introspection and mindfulness. What does this look like for the two of you is

Joe Dee 58:41 getting deep. So the actual ritual part, the active physical ritual part of this one is attempting meditation. And it's, for me, it's it's helping me take time to focus on myself and self care, which a lot of us neglect or put off, I struggle with meditation, I'm, I make excuses not to do it. So this kind of it eliminates, making excuses. It's like, it's this ritual. I want to get through it, I want to accomplish it. I want to have that sense of accomplishment, say I did it. And kind of reinforces taking that time, even after I complete this ritual to continue it. And just to keep it in my mind, like, I need to take time for myself. I need self care and clear my mind. And it's like, John had mentioned earlier about setting boundaries and setting saying, No, I can't do this right now because I'm taking care of myself. And it's so important for me in my recovery, because when I get overwhelmed when I have so much stress and stuff going on, that's when you know I'm at risk. And I want to do something to calm down that is probably not healthy. So this is a way, a healthy way to cope with stress and anxieties and stuff. Tune all that out and focus on myself.

Jon Eldritch 1:00:23 You know, I think, interesting part of virtual five, there's, you know, with all the rituals, there's two parts of it. And the first part of it is about, you go through make two vision boards. You do a five year vision board, and essentially writing out what would you like your life to be like in five years, right? And we encourage everyone to not limit themselves. Let your imagination go wild. Whatever you think could be possible.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:00:48 I have to pause and point out that that sound is your bulldog. Snoring in the background? Yes. Just for listener. I'm sorry, I I just I know that listeners will be so confused by what they're hearing. So acknowledging the Bulldog snoring in the background. Okay. Do continue.

Jon Eldritch 1:01:12 Yeah, so for you, we encourage, you know, visualize how good things can be in five years. And then apologies. I'm going Can we pause for a sec? Of course, no, it's all good. It's he's ridiculous.

Joe Dee 1:01:28 Never have to apologize for never

Stephen Bradford Long 1:01:30 apologize. We know. Like I said, before we started recording. We love the ambient sounds of animals.

Joe Dee 1:01:38 That is meditative. It's like ASMR. It is

Stephen Bradford Long 1:01:41 Bulldog snoring in the background.

Jon Eldritch 1:01:47 I was able to move the big Mojo.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:01:51 This snoring beast, okay, perfect. Okay, so just start back with Yeah, yeah, that sounds good.

Jon Eldritch 1:01:58 So the interesting thing with ritual, this ritual is, you know, all the rituals have two parts. And the first part of ritual, ritual five is, the first part is about making a vision board. And we encourage everybody to really allow themselves to let their imagination go wild, to really encourage themselves to not limit what could be possible in five years. And then, after you do the five year vision board, you do a one year vision board, what can I do this year, to start working towards those five year plans? What can I do today, to make this one year goals possible today? What are the steps that I could take to really allow allows me to have excitement about things going forward and new opportunities in life, and starts to really help me navigate what things are possible? Now that I've been working on this and changing the way I look at things with a more positive outlook, instead of the truth and gloom that regularly comes with addiction?

Stephen Bradford Long 1:03:01 Amazing. It's just so practical. Like that's, that's the thing. And it isn't rocket science. I feel like one of the lessons that I've had to learn just in terms of maturing, and, you know, getting hold of, of some unhealthy patterns and behaviors. This is like, this isn't magic. It's actually really simple. A lot of these things, write your goals, reflect on them move forward. What are you going to do today to move towards that mountain? Like, it's really simple. It isn't rocket science. And that's one of the things that I feel like I've learned over and over and over again, is it's actually I keep wanting to make it more complicated than it actually is. I don't know. Does that make any sense? 100%.

Jon Eldritch 1:03:50 Okay, regularly saying that recovery is normally simple solutions to really complicated problems. Absolutely. Yeah. And doesn't mean it's always easy, right? Because recovery is let's be real recovery is hard. Right? It's very hard. And, but it's a very simple process. Like the answers are simple. The cup problems are extremely complicated. And when we're able to start focusing on, you know, long term goals, short term goals, and then mindfulness of today and right now. We have actually a, Jody mentioned, constantly giving themselves excuses for not meditating and I do the same thing. And I'm so grateful that our council member Brady Barney started a Sunday meditation meeting, because now I meditate. Now I meditate at least once a week normally.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:04:41 That's incredible. Yeah, no, I tried to meditate every morning. And it often doesn't happen but like that's the goal is to meditate every morning and I am really, really interested in incorporating contemplative practice into my Satanism and then exploring ways to do that more communally as well bringing contemplative practice into into Satanism. So that's something that I've been fascinated by. And I've been thinking about as well,

Jon Eldritch 1:05:10 you know, we always say, I don't think there's anything more satanic than self growth. Yes. Like self self growth is the most satanic thing you can do. And practicing meditation we recognize, you know, meditation means multiple things for different people. Right? Some people can't just do a silent meditation, it took me a while to be able to get to that, because I just have such a hard time sitting still. But there's all sorts of different forms of meditation. And we actually go through different processes every Sunday. We've tried guided meditations, silent meditations, ASMR videos, the works. That's cool. That's awesome. Because we want to people to know, because I don't think I've ever heard anybody go, I have no problem meditating. Like, I don't think I've ever heard anybody ever say,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:05:57 it is always a struggle. Jody, what's all you were about to say something what? What's on your mind? Oh,

Joe Dee 1:06:05 just about the making excuses. And putting stuff off, or what I wanted to talk about with our community, because it's our community is such an amazing support system that kind of holds you accountable, and kind of motivates you to want to do these things and want to do these rituals. And it's a huge part of it. Because if I was left on my own, and I was trying to do recovery on my own, I would put everything off. And I have made excuses. So being a part of this supportive, amazing positive community really helps. So even though we're you know, so satanic, and we're like, Hell thyself, we're doing it ourselves. We're amazing, which we are, we also encourage having that support system and community because community is so satanic as well, and helping each other lift each other up and learn and motivate each other to do what we need to do for our self care and for recovery. Is so just like vital, I think, to my recovery, at least, and I and I know it's a huge boon to others and in our community.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:07:24 Yeah, I, I agree with that. Sorry, go on. Go on. John,

Jon Eldritch 1:07:28 you brought up an interesting thing, God, you know, Satanism, very much is like, you know, all about yourself. And I've been asked before, like, well, if you're able to just do it by yourself, why need a program, and I don't think I can do recovery by myself, right? But it is, it was my choice to recognize I needed help. And it was my choice and actions to seek help. It was my choice and actions to take the advice given to me and to work with others. And that's what we mean, when it's, it's, it's self empowerment. And I've always hated and, you know, in other, growing, growing up, going through recovery and other programs, was when things are going well, it was according to God's will. And when things are going poorly, it was your fault. And I say, fuck that I've worked my ass off. Yeah, it's over. Right? This is my work. And while I didn't do it all on my own, I, it was my actions to get to where I am. This was my actions to get put myself into a community and connect with others and work on myself on a daily basis, a community

Stephen Bradford Long 1:08:34 of individuals. Yeah. Yep. And it also, you know, community is so satanic, in part because it is scientifically validated, that that can that we thrive within community. And so you know, I wrote an article a while ago called Seven satanic dichotomies, which kind of focuses on the symbol of Baphomet, which is the reconciliation of opposites and this and kind of this tension between what appears to be paradoxes but are in fact, dichotomies that are imbalanced with each other. And one of those things for me is individualism and community on on one side of Baphomet is is community on the other side of Baphomet is the individual and it is not one or the other. It is these two things working in mysterious tension, in symbiosis with each other. Yeah, so ritual, ritual. Number six, we continuously strive towards self actualization, seeking knowledge on our path to act and respond ethically and responsibly in all things.

Jon Eldritch 1:09:45 This was actually our topic just the other week. Amazing. Yeah. What

Stephen Bradford Long 1:09:50 does this mean for you?

Jon Eldritch 1:09:51 So I think, you know, the, this is, you know, we call ritual five our first maintenance ritual, an ongoing part of your recovery process. and ritual six is the second maintenance ritual, complementing your regular meditation practice. And this is where the seven tenets come in and very heavily. We use the seven tenants as self reflective questions through our meditative through our meditation practice. I think you might be what I could just kind of go over the questions that we asked ourselves while each tenant if you'd like. Absolutely, yeah, please do. So, tenant one wants to strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. Have I acted with compassion towards myself today? Have I acted compassionately towards others today? Send it to the struggle for justice is ongoing, unnecessary pursuit and should prevail over laws and institutions? Have I continue to strive for justice against my adversary of addiction? What actions have I taken today to stay on track? How many days have I been sober? Remembering each new day is a triumph and should be celebrated three, one's body isn't vulnerable subject to one's own will alone, have I been living the way I want to by taking actions towards self improvement and my own goals? And then you would use your vision board as well, from ritual five to kind of like, well, am I you know, continuing on this path, for the freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend, to willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego one's own my respect to the freedoms of others today, even if I found it disagreeable, have I encroach upon the freedoms of another have I allowed someone else to encroach upon my freedoms five beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. We want you to take care of never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs are my beliefs towards myself, my towards myself and others rational right now my holding on to distorted irrational beliefs and or fears. And again, you can look back at your ritual three for this. And tenant six is the big one. This sort of sets out I would probably say the two biggest of the rituals would probably be ritual three, and then ritual six and ritual six is the big one, when it comes to your first time doing it. And tenant six is people are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. This one came with a lot of clarity. To his we don't, I'll go ahead it says working on tenant six will likely be a larger task for some of you do it well, looking over ritual three, we may have caused a lot of harm in our past. As we continue living in accordance with the seven tenants and the summer rituals, this list will naturally get smaller, and taking responsibility for our own actions will slowly slowly become second nature. We shouldn't expect to be able to go back and fix every mistake that we have ever made, or to hunt down every person from our past. It is important however, for us to live free from shame and guilt from our past. And for us to take responsibility for our actions, we should do our best to rectify and resolve any harm that has been done to people that we care for and are in touch with. If there's something from your past that if there's someone from your past that you've harmed, that you cannot get in touch with anymore, or it may cause you more harm to yourself to engage with. With that person, the best thing to do is to simply strive to learn from those mistakes and work towards self improvement, you may not be ready to work towards rectifying all of your past harmful actions. And that is completely okay. Just start with one at a time. Remember, this isn't about seeking approval from others. So sometimes some damages cannot be repaired or someone doesn't want to accept your apology. What's important is you find what you could do it what you did what you could do, and you no longer have to live with any of that accumulated guilt. So again, the this is not about we really wanted to hammer home that this is not about seeking acceptance from others. This isn't about groveling and saying I'm sorry, all the time. It's about what are what have we what is the weighing on us? And what actions can we do to to rectify that harm to practice this the sixth tenant? I love that. I'm just kind of monologue about

Stephen Bradford Long 1:13:52 No, that's fantastic. You can you can monologues are great. Jodie, what are your What are your thoughts on this and what John just said?

Joe Dee 1:14:00 Well, not much to add. It's more about your own judgment. Like it's your judgment call, what from your past you want to revisit and what you don't, and just acknowledging the stuff that you don't want to revisit, kind of come to terms with it within yourself and move on and move forward. And that's really it like you don't have to, you don't you don't have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable or that you don't want to do. It's you're, you're guided by your own judgment. And the you know, you could always seek advice from our amazing community. Before and if you're unsure talk about it. You know, talk about it with others, you're not alone. And you you do have this amazing community that is there for you. 24/7 Literally,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:14:56 so I love that.

Jon Eldritch 1:14:57 So the questions 468 Have I made a mistake that has caused harm? What actions can I take to best rectify and resolve any harm that's been caused? And am I harboring harboring resentments? Can I recognize that everyone is fallible and not let someone else's actions control my life today. And the last one is tenant seven to simply repeat tenant cemetery yourself. In regards to all the work we've been doing. Throughout this ritual processes, every tenant is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility and action on thoughts, the spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:15:31 I'm seeing how it can be so helpful to return to these rituals. And as well to the seven tenants, which I do every single day. Just on a on a continuous basis, it's like continually working the rituals, going, exploring the rituals and discovering deeper and newer layers of empowerment. And as I'm reading through them, I can see how empowering an experience that could be all right, the seventh and final ritual, after following this path, we recognized our own self growth, and sought to point the way to those who are suffering, I think this one is really, really beautiful, what is what does this one mean to you,

Joe Dee 1:16:17 really just what it says. And it goes back to our amazing community, just to be there for others and be of service when you can, where you can, if you can, you know, it's, again, it's all what you want to do what you know, don't overburden yourself, we all have different circumstances, you know, that we're in, we're in different places in our life and in our own journey. So it's just do what you can because it does feel good. Being able to help others and after you've gone through this whole ritual journey, to want to share that with others and build other people up is also part of your own recovery. It, it feels good, it helps others and it's, I think, because we're guided by the tenants, and I'm, I try and strive to live by the tenants, like, that's sort of like the one of the core for me, to live by the tendency is to be of service to others. However, I'm capable, you know, we're all we're our own guides and what we're capable of, and, and it feels good to be to be able to do what we can for others.

Jon Eldritch 1:17:39 I think another part of, you know, so many of us when we started sober faction and who have come to sober faction felt very alone in our recovery for a very long time, and struggled in our recovery process for a very long time, until we found some perfection, or until so perfection exists, you know, was was put together. And with ritual seven, we want to ensure that nobody has to deal with that, unnecessarily, right? No one has to suffer alone anymore. Right? All pain is necessarily part of life, right? Everyone's gonna have pains. But suffering alone is only optional. And we try to make sure and push that community as hard as we can. And, you know, this kind of segues nicely into another big part of sober faction that's unique, and that is the ally ship program. So Ally ship is similar to sponsorship, but some very key differences. I was going to pull up the way it's worded because it's worded so nicely with a super faction credit allyship program that consists of piercer recovery, working through the seven referrals together, offering support mutual guidance and friendship without judgments and hierarchy. The allyship program differs from common sponsorship style step recovery mentorships and that there is no teacher student dichotomy. All our students as well as teachers with an ally partnerships, learning from and guiding each other as needed.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:19:10 I love that. I love the it's like taking the best from the sponsorship program that are in 12 steps while removing the the dangerous hierarchy and authoritarianism that can so often creep up there.

Jon Eldritch 1:19:31 If there's one thing Satan is still like it's arbitrary authority. It

Stephen Bradford Long 1:19:34 is arbitrary authority. Yes, absolutely.

Joe Dee 1:19:37 Yes. So, wow, we've got through this seven rituals. And if I may continue on my tangent. Yes,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:19:46 please. Yes.

Joe Dee 1:19:51 As I mentioned way at the beginning of our interview, or podcast journey here, that I didn't feel accepted are comfortable, and AAA rooms in those spaces. But the super faction community is such a welcoming space. And it's just beautiful to see so many different people coming together and supporting each other and just accepting each other for who they are the majority, I have to, I have to say, I do think the majority of our members right now in the in the private Facebook group are queer or gender non conforming. And it's like, no one blinks in the eye, it's, it's even with our, you know, cisgendered members and our heterosexual members or, you know, it's no one cares, we're all just there to support each other. And everyone feels so comfortable and, and able, to be honest, completely honest, and in our meetings and on our spaces, where me personally and others have spoken about not feeling comfortable speaking about certain things and other recovery programs, because they were so othered in that space. And that's just one thing that many of us were othered for is how we present ourselves, or how we identify, not to mention our belief systems. So it was like these multiple layers of having to be dishonest or closed off, and just grin and bear what we had to, to be in in a recovery group, which is not the case, in silver faction, which is just so comforting. And I'm so grateful for that space. And that it's open to everyone. You know, there are other programs that have kind of like subgroups for different individuals, whether they're a queer meeting, or a woman's meeting, etc, which is cool. And that's great. And those spaces aren't necessary. But it's amazing that we're all able to coexist in in our meetings in comfort and just support. Absolutely. mutual support. That's the words I was looking for. Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 1:22:42 I think that's a fantastic note to end on. Is there. Are there any final thoughts or any final final things that you wanted to impart to our audience before we wrap this up?

Joe Dee 1:22:54 Should we talk our events? Yes. Tell us

Stephen Bradford Long 1:22:57 tell us about your events.

Jon Eldritch 1:22:59 When will this be airing?

Stephen Bradford Long 1:23:00 This will be airing hopefully next, next Saturday.

Jon Eldritch 1:23:04 Oh, perfect. So preparing for this is airing around Saturday, the 10th Come look forward to our first big fundraiser through TST going to be alive on CCTV is the rolling with the devil event is going to be an online d&d live stream with us over faction Council where the audience can donate to fuck with the game. Everybody who's watching can donate, you know, you know two bucks and make one of us have to re roll our dice. Or someone can donate a little bit more and add more enemies to the table. Or they can donate a larger amounts and submit a plot twist that we'll all have to deal with. And the whole all the funds raised go straight and so we're faction so we can continue to grow this campaign. And it's going to be crazy. It's been nuts.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:23:58 That sounds amazing. That sounds like a lot of fun. And what are the dates for that again,

Jon Eldritch 1:24:02 that is going to be on July 17. And it will be on TSE TV. We'll have a video, cheese or trailer video by that point going around kind of sharing the info

Stephen Bradford Long 1:24:12 perfect and send that to me so I can post it on the website as well. And by the way, the satanic temple.tv is also the sponsor for Sacred tension. So you should use the promo code sacred tension all caps no space to to get your first month free. Okay, shameless plug over. Where Where can people find sober faction online,

Joe Dee 1:24:34 the TSP website? The Satanic temple.com. And what is it? It's

Jon Eldritch 1:24:42 the satanic temple.com/pages/sober

Stephen Bradford Long 1:24:45 faction? Yeah, it should just pop up on the Satanic Temple page under campaigns.

Jon Eldritch 1:24:52 If you go through the campaigns under advocacy, you'll also find some protection there. From there you will find our full meeting schedule. You'll Find the seventh virtual packet that we've discussed thoroughly here. There's a ton in there, we've kind of scratched the surface on all of them, there's a lot more to it. And you'll also find where you can donate to sober affection to support our cause. So we can keep doing this.

Joe Dee 1:25:18 We also have our Facebook, private group, the Satanic Temple, silver faction, private Facebook group that I highly recommend you join. Because, again, it's 24/7 support, there are people on there chatting all the time. It's a great space. And before we close, I do want to thank our amazing Council. It's not just me and John, we have the most amazing so reflection council that consists of Brady Barney, who manages our membership, and our Mod Squad that moderates our Facebook group. We have Joshua to Spain, who manages our ally ship program that was mentioned. We have hell bent, who is our treasurer. And Larry Rivoire, who does our Mergent arts and graphics on sister midnight, who is freakin fantastic as our secretary, and they all also lead certain meetings. They all have their different style, and format for just just a great variety of meetings and personalities. So I think that's everyone. Right. And we've been amazing.

Jon Eldritch 1:26:47 Yeah, I think that's everybody in each meeting. That's one. One more sub note is each meeting that we host is hosted by a different councilmember. And all the meetings feel wildly different. So you're also getting multiple different approaches and perspectives. And not all the meetings have the same format. So it's another thing to look forward to. And so reflection is variety. It's not just me or Jody talking every day.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:27:10 Yeah, that's That sounds fantastic. And honestly, it kind of reminds me of the Satanic Temple services, how so far it's like each temple service has been so different. Because our clergy is so varied and and it has so many different perspectives. Yeah, that's, that's super cool. All right. Well, my friends, we have come to the end of our podcast journey together. But you are always welcome to come back. This has been a great conversation. And thank you so much for joining me.

Joe Dee 1:27:42 Thank you so much for having us house over faction and our amazing community once again, once again.

Jon Eldritch 1:27:50 Thank you so much for having us again. It was a pleasure being here. And yeah, he also refraction hail TST and if you have any questions while self reflection don't feel don't be scared to peek into this Facebook group or message us through the website.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:28:05 Beautiful. Well that is it for this show. The music is by eleventy seven and the jelly rocks you can find them on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to music. This show is written and performed by me Steve from Bradford long and it is produced and edited by Dante salmoni. It is a production of rock candy recordings and is supported by my patrons@patreon.com forward slash Steven Bradford long as always Hail Satan and thanks for listening can say something? I don't think.

1:28:47 You