Podcasts/Sacred Tension-Vaush the Nazi Fighter

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Vaush_the_Nazi_Fighter SUMMARY KEYWORDS disgust, people, leftist, point, person, fucking, arguments, left, stream, feel, called, engage, good, agree, reactionary, virtue, video, thought, youtube video, nazi SPEAKERS Vaush, Stephen Bradford Long

00:00 Hi I'm Peterson Toscano I host bubblin squeak here in the rock candy network. I tell personal revealing story whispered Did you just masturbate because I felt a terrible presence of evil. Enter the I make prank phone calls to the past. Federal doll Eliza heimbach speaking into the future, because my boyfriend and I are just not having enough sex, all the problems that you just have to listen to, it's too hard to describe. Check out bubble and squeak wherever you listen to podcasts.

Stephen Bradford Long 01:00 This is sacred tension, the podcast about the discipline of asking questions. My name is Steven Bradford long we are here on the rock candy Podcast Network. For more shows like this one go to rock candy recordings.com. We have some amazing shows over there, including eleventy life and Bible bash and bubble and squeak and we are bringing on more shows as we speak. So the network is growing definitely go check it out. Before we get started, I have just a few pieces of housekeeping. First, I am only able to do this show because of my Patreon supporters. So if you want to see the show continue to come out every single week. If you want to see me continue to bring interesting conversations to the world then please go to patreon.com forward slash Steven Bradford long and for $1 A month or $5 a month you will get an extra patrons only podcast called the House of heretics along with other rambling insights from me on my Patreon page. So if you want to support the show, please go do that. If you do not have the financial means to do that. I totally understand you can share it with your friends leave an iTunes review. And most of all, continue to enjoy it and listen to it every week because it is ultimately here for your enjoyment. Second, we are still continuing to grow the rock candy Podcast Network and if you have a show or you are thinking of starting one, I would love to hear your pitch. I would love to hear what you're working on. Please send it to me at Steven Bradford long.com And maybe we can produce it. Alright, well, today I am very excited to welcome the YouTuber Vaush to the show. Vaush it's so good to meet you. How are you doing?

Vaush 02:46 I'm doing pretty well. I just came off of a I guess what would be for me an early morning stream. Yeah, it was fun. We yelled about Sargon for a while and then I had a knock. It's kind of Nazi come on for like 10 minutes at the end.

Stephen Bradford Long 02:59 I heard a little bit of that. I heard just at the very end of that when I was watching you frantically try to get off to do this interview. Yeah. So So okay, so you brought up Nazis talk about some tell us some about what you do.

Vaush 03:12 Oh, good. All right, well, so about four or five months ago, I made a YouTube video that was it. There was some minut level of production quality that went into it. And it was fun. And it got some attention because I was already somewhat well known online. And from that point forward, I kept making videos and they got slightly more and more and I started streaming on Twitch and I went from like 20 viewers the stream up to in a month around 400 Which is pretty good. Yeah, pretty, pretty amazing, actually. And then I got banned from Twitch for being very aggressively anti Israel in a in a typically facetious fashion. It's obviously it's a sensitive topic, I should have been more cautious because if you engage in anti Israeli criticism, it easily comes off as anti semitism especially in this climate. But nonetheless

Stephen Bradford Long 04:00 here's the thing. Here's the thing as far as I'm concerned if you are accused of anti semitism at least once you have not truly earned your leftist Bona fie days

Vaush 04:09 Oh unquestionably right up there on my little my little boy scouts satchel, okay, right next to the tent making is because you can't because like Realistically speaking, genocidal apartheid state we all know it is.

Stephen Bradford Long 04:23 It absolutely is. And if it weren't, because it's Israel, it would it would be unanimously condemned across all fronts. And it pretty much is, except for a few factions, you know, in the United States. Yeah,

Vaush 04:39 we're pretty much the only like global supporters, the Israel's, like the largest American military base on the planet.

Stephen Bradford Long 04:44 Yeah, it is. Okay. Well, okay. So moving on. I know that I'm kind of taking a risk having you on because you are a controversial figure. But you are an incredibly interesting figure to me, in part because you are very far left and you You appeal to a very specific crowd online and I think that you're doing great work and I guess you could call it D radicalizing if you want to use that term or bringing another perspective to peep to kids to young men to isolated people on the far right and you're you're kind of helping some of them see that not all leftists are Trigger Happy snowflakes

Vaush 05:30 No, I mean that that really is it though like that's basically the marketing approach distilled to its finest point Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 05:36 you have like this 4chan humor and and you you really remind me of like you're you're basically like this online Nazi slaying guerrilla warlord or something and it's not going to be for everyone and I know that a lot of people listening to my show right now are not going to be your target audience but you know this show is built on having interesting conversations and you're just such an incredibly interesting figure you know, I watched your your appearance on kill stream kill stream being this

Vaush 06:07 disgusting worst of the worst. They're basically subhuman Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 06:12 this disgusting far right Fashi stream like basically Nazis and the way you carried yourself the way you just yes and everything and you know, kind of stepping up to to the jokes and just throwing it right back and me and intermingling. Very good leftist points. I thought you did an amazing job. And it was really an eye. It was really watch the fun. Yeah, yeah. I can imagine that. That random guy though. Holy shit. Yeah, he was. Oh, God.

Vaush 06:51 He's been He's beyond parody. So I guess I can't even make jokes about him. Because he feels like the problem God's set up for the universe to make fun of Tim. There's no, there's no, yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 07:00 yeah, yeah, that was God's setup for for the rest of us to make fun of the far far right. Okay, so what? So you're a streamer for people who don't know what that is? Because I do have some baby boomer listeners. What? What is it? What is that? What do you do? Yeah, so

Vaush 07:15 essentially, it works a little bit differently depending on the site. But essentially, what it means is that you do a live broadcast from a camera or from a desktop, and you basically speak to a live audience and essentially create in the case of YouTube, at least, you would create a YouTube video live. And after you end the stream, that stream is done and everything that you put together the base recording element, plus your commentary, plus the chat lane on top and all the disparate elements that you put onto your stream, it becomes the YouTube video. Yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 07:45 it's a very frightening media medium for me because I occasionally say stuff that I can just never take back. And and so that's why I edit all of my shows like and it makes me wish that I could just edit every single thing I say the way I edit a podcast like oh, let's just let's just cut

Vaush 08:05 Ctrl G that one yeah, I I have admired streaming culture for as long as I've been like internet happy I was on Justin tv 10 years ago, back before it became Twitch, TV. And now, YouTube streaming, I really liked the authenticity of having to engage with your ideas live and having to, I suppose there's, it's very difficult to maintain a facade, when you're engaging with difficult ideas, and you're doing so in a live format, it's very hard to keep that persona for isn't a prepared video, you have literally no idea what desperateness there is between the video that's been produced and the people making it, that intimacy really drove me to stream.

Stephen Bradford Long 08:43 I totally agree with that. Because there's like this disarming immediacy of it, where there's when like, say, the medium that I work in podcasting, there are so many layers between you, the creator and the audience. So so many filters, so many layers, whereas with what you do, it's like, all right there. And I think that there's something about that disarming quality of streaming that allows people to feel particularly safe, not safe, but but like it is a particularly honest medium. And that's really powerful.

Vaush 09:21 That's why I do what I do, I think because my main argument here is that literally anybody can do what I do. I'm I benefit. Obviously, my products have a good environment, and I'm a good speaker, but fundamentally, like I want to show people that you can just wake up roll out of bed, go on, and crush every single reactionary talking point every time with minimal preparation except for the harder scientific and historical stuff. But even then, minor preparation and you're probably good. That's why for my YouTube videos, I usually show up in like a tank top with unkempt hair. I don't edit out the times where I like swear or fuck up or drop something or have to like get up to pick something for that I've thrown facetiously over to the other side of the room, because I want to show people that just being an idiot online, something we all like to do doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to the kind of academic debunking of reactionary thought, which needs to take place right now.

Stephen Bradford Long 10:17 Right? Okay, so you're doing something that I think the left really desperately needs the left desperately needs people to actually take the arguments head on. And too often we resort to disgust, understandable disgust, absolutely legitimate disgust very much. And I and I don't hold a grudge against anyone for whom Disgust is their primary emotion towards white nationalists and Neo Nazis and whatnot. However, when that is our only respond when the response ends at How dare you and not actually get into the conversation, not actually get into the argument, that's a problem. And so I really think the left needs people like you who are willing to go into these places and have these kinds of brutal conversations and you just decimate some of these people you'd it's it's really wonderful to watch. So you mentioned some you mentioned how you very feel like you very easily decimate these right wing talking points and arguments. What are the most common arguments that you come across in these online spaces?

Vaush 11:24 I think the easiest, the most common the natural answer is of course, that there are no arguments it's just feelings, but it's how they pull arguments from those feelings. The most common feeling I see expressed is disgust. This emotional vitriolic, this is usually against trans people or against a dark skinned people and they pull from this a bunch of box because I am disgusted. We must not be able to get along because I am disgusted. There must be something wrong. Almost all of their arguments stem fundamentally from a distrust of the other, this very base, primal, tribalistic urge.

Stephen Bradford Long 12:01 Yeah, it's a very primitive part of the brain. And you know, that's actually what stood out the most to me in your interview, or your conversation on the kill stream was how those guys were operating out of such an intensely deep sense of disgust of queer people of LGBT people and whatnot like that. Right?

Vaush 12:21 I was a, I was a spiritual faggot, apparently. Because the rant the rant guy called me a fag. And I was like, yes, very openly pan, this isn't even. And, and then, and then he was like, Okay, well, and then later they called, they called me, he called me a faggot again. And I said, we've been over this and he said, Well, you were spiritual faggot. I remember that was a level of disgust. That's very fascinating to me, because I can't imagine hating a person that much. Yeah.

Stephen Bradford Long 12:49 It's fascinating. Well, you know, and then my favorite part of that whole conversation actually, was when was when he was like, I need details. Give me details of of man sex. And you're like, do you want that?

Vaush 13:03 Yeah, I'll do. I don't know why. Yeah, see, like, testing me. I have the D. I've got the videos on my phone. I mean, I'll well, I won't go that far.

Stephen Bradford Long 13:12 But you know, yeah. So so there's this element. There's this sense that disgust like reaches spiritual heights. And it is this unexamined thing in the far right psyche. And really, a lot of what I see you doing, and some other people doing, like Contra points is basically kind of forcing people to stop and reconsider that innate disgust response. Because I really think that Disgust is like one of the most primal responses in human nature, like it's one of the most primal responses in the human mind. And we often take it for granted, we assume that our disgust correlates to really you know, comports with reality and it just doesn't. And so, I what I see people like you doing is, is helping people kind of stop and reconsider their disgust of the other.

Vaush 14:04 Yeah, I think because there's a lot of and the weird thing is there are a lot of ways in which we already acknowledged that disgust and moral ops don't correspond. It's like for example, SCAP fetishism, okay. Most people would agree that scat like you know, being in the poop most people would

Stephen Bradford Long 14:21 have for the uninitiated.

Vaush 14:24 For those of you who don't share my kings, the most people would agree and myself included that this is very really disgusting. And I will happily take shots at these people if it's ever socially if it ever comes up in conversation which it doesn't very often in my communities I don't know about everyone else's, but I don't think most people would agree that it should be illegal but the but they can't they they can accept that. These alt right people for the most part, but they can't accept the same divide between variable and disgust and like policy or moral fan right? That they see In gender, sexual minorities and immigrants are in any of the myriad things they find excuses to get upset over every single day.

Stephen Bradford Long 15:08 Right? So when you are confronted with someone who is expressing this kind of disgust, what do you do?

Vaush 15:13 I see, I this is something that I think a lot of people fuck up on on the left, you can't moralize empathy and you can't change axiomatic values. Like for instance, mine being Put very simply to maximize wellbeing for sentient creatures. It's a fairly standard one most people agree with. In fact, I would go so far as to say almost all do there except like very religious people might think like venerating God might be above that. And some people think tradition or bloodline, that would be like a Nazi take, but for the most part, we want to maximize well being. So my arguments then aren't like, hey, you need to change your values, because there are sincere Nazis out there like Nicolas Fuentes, for example, who will say in his streams that if he encounters science that disagrees with the outcomes, he believes he'll call it Jewish science, and he won't accept it. He knows he's being irrational, because rationality isn't important to him. What I can do is for the people who aren't that far gone, the people who do believe that in some twisted way, ethno states or hating feminism will bring about a more equal world, I can show them that they're being hypocritical. That's all I can do. I can't make them better people, I can't change their values. But I can show them how their values if they believe in what I believe, which most people do are not being supported by the policy positions. They're taking on major social issues. That's

Stephen Bradford Long 16:28 really interesting. So you aren't appealing to empathy. You aren't appealing to many of the major talking points, because frankly, they don't care. You know, like, frankly, they don't care about empathy. But what they do care about maybe if I'm reading you correctly, is intellectual consistency. Yeah.

Vaush 16:45 Because that's, that's their straw man, they'll that's what they believe. They believe the world is full of cruel, hard truths, like black people are less intelligent than white people, like men are better than women. And some and the world would be best if we acknowledge these truths, and we're responsible in dealing with them. But some people, the crazy leftists are emotionally screeching, you have to be empathy. You absolutely have to be empathetic. You have to be nice to people. And they think that this is a way of emotionally diffusing the truth of the world where I say no, that is not the case, the empathy argument is almost secondary. In reality, your facts are wrong. Your assumptions about the world are empirically incorrect. Empathy isn't necessary to demonstrate while you're wrong.

Stephen Bradford Long 17:26 Exactly, you know, you bring up a really interesting point that I've actually been thinking about quite a bit, which is, you know, I wrote an article recently called My complicated feelings about Sam Harris, where I talked some about this, and you know how, for people who don't know and for those of you who are sick and tired of me talking about Harris, I'm so sorry. But he, you know, he had Charles Murray of the bell curve infamy on his show and basically promoted it and said, you know, this is undisputable science. And I wrote all about this and wins when a controversy like this comes up. It is often construed as these are facts. And the left just can't handle the facts. And the left just needs to accept the facts and the we're being triggered happy. We're being you know, triggered by facts. And and there are two insights that I gleaned from this, first of all, that that science and reason are brands and not practices of the right, that they are that it's posturing it is all posturing that this free open exchange of ideas, the freedom of the free exchange of the market of ideas, willingness to debate, willingness to, you know, reason, it's it is marketing and branding, but not praxis. And second, I disagree with the facts. The reason why I personally object to what Sam Harris says about race is because it is it scientifically wrong.

Vaush 18:55 I have never in my life, for instance, and they take this too far. Sometimes they'll always there reactionaries will say like there are leftists who don't believe that men are stronger than women on average, or some nonsense like that, where I have in I think in the entirety of my Of course, there were three to six minutes, because that's their language. But I think I have in the entirety of my life met exactly one person who did not believe that cisgender men were on average stronger than so. Yeah, exactly. And they were made fun of by everyone else in that community. There's nothing wrong with empirical truth. And there's a little bit of natural inequality in the world a little bit, but that natural inequality is then expounded upon into articles and books and mountains of propaganda meant to reinforce a preeminent social structure on the right it is yeah. Oh, yeah. Unquestionably. Yeah. Like everything that we knew about race today is a product of justifying the relationship between Africans and white Europeans post transatlantic slave trade, and and following that after the moral, the moralistic Bible thumping argument for why white people had dominion over black people began to fall to the wayside. We had scientific racism rise with Darwin, even in Charles Murray's fucking book, which I have read, there is data in there, which is either inaccurately compiled or which expanded to this day becomes contrary to his initial point to speak specifically on that, I remember there's a particular study that he goes on about in his book about how the addition of resources into a traditionally disadvantaged community, like a black community didn't lead to an increase in performance and education. And they it was a longitudinal study where they went for a short period of time, and it seemed like there was an initial jump in its effectiveness, but then it tapered off. But then that's ended in the 90s. If we look at the exact same data set continued to today, it arct back up again. Yeah, those people are now basically on par with white people have similar exact

Stephen Bradford Long 20:49 circumstance. Exactly. Yeah. No, no, no, it's it's fascinating. And you know, the most incredible thing I don't know, if you followed the whole Sam Harris as recline fee. Go, I did Oh, my God, oh, man, you should you should do a stream about that. I mean, that's old news. Now, that's ancient history now for the internet. But it would be interesting to hear your take on it. But you know, there's that moment when when Ezra Klein is trying to contextualize why we do see these IQ gaps in America. And like, you know, there's there's generational racism and abuse and how that creates the the causes of, you know, and how that how that creates systemic oppression, which then affects the IQs of certain marginalized groups. It's pretty basic stuff. And Sam Harris legit said that the science does not matter. He He said, No, no, no, no, no, he did not. He said the history is irrelevant. The history does not matter. The data is just the data and the history, that might be girding that data is irrelevant to him. Yeah, it was just the most astonishing part of that, that whole fiasco, this, this is about the level of

Vaush 22:03 intellectual consistency, I would expect from somebody started out as like a new atheist critic of Islam, who then later corroborated with Christian conservatives, an anti Muslim, like, yes, you have to be we must be very listened, as you said perfectly science and reason these things are brands, not practices for the right. Anybody who makes the claim? Yes, I am very rational and logical and using Rational logic, I will deduce that, oh, the skull shape is you must

Stephen Bradford Long 22:32 be red flags, these red flag

Vaush 22:35 because, again, it's very much like being a good person you show you do not tell anyone who promotes the the skepticism and the wisdom of science without being able to follow it through in practice is wearing it as a cloak to justify views that cannot be justified scientific

Stephen Bradford Long 22:52 or apply it to themselves, you know, and that's, that's the thing that I get the most frustrated with. Science tells us just how irrational we are. And just how prone to cognitive bias and error we are. And exactly like

Vaush 23:06 with data collection, there were 1000 when I studied sociology, a million ways you have to be cognizant of your personal biases. When selecting your data range, selecting the sample size, where are you going to sample them? How are you going to label them? How do you leave your questions in what order are the questions place? What are the questions leading towards, though and then and then up in the data interpretation are a million ways in which bias can affect our but they don't care in that board awards of Lauren southern data is just the plural of anecdote, she said, saying that after talking to a dozen or so people in Europe, she decided that everyone there hated the Muslim immigrants. This this adaption of and simultaneous complete rejection of science and rational thought is one of the most dangerous things happening to public discourse. And that's why when I'm arguing with white leaning people, I'm so keen to call them what they love so much triggered snowflakes, not rational and they hate being called anything other than rational. And I want to point that out at every chance that I get.

Stephen Bradford Long 24:03 Absolutely. You know, there was just a great article by Nathan Robinson on current affairs about Steven Pinker and how you know pinker is is one of the less offensive people on the right and I do think that he is often as kind of a figure of the right but he told me you know, Nathan Robinson points out how you know, people on the right are so quick to call to say that leftists are you know, prone to hyperbole and then in the very next sentence, they say that we are Stalinist for, you know, using gender pronouns,

Vaush 24:35 Islam is destroying the West exactly place for white people to live in a

Stephen Bradford Long 24:40 completely unselfconsciously completely on ironically, unselfconsciously, and it is fucking hilarious to me. So yeah, go

Vaush 24:48 on know what they're doing. They know what they're doing. Do. I foundationally reject this idea that reactionary, like, demagogues are just kind of dumb people who are just saying what they've been told, because there are people like that like like Trump. For example, I think we all generally agree that Trump is not the brightest or now, but I think these people like Thunderfoot like Sargon of Akkad like Tim Poole, like Dave Rubin, I foundationally reject the idea that these people don't know what they're doing. I regard them for what they are. They are crypto fascists, who are using the the guise of sort of a liberal, abject love of open discussion to willfully promote far right talking points, and I think they should be treated with contempt that title would what would matter it? Yeah, I

Stephen Bradford Long 25:32 agree. They're completely Craven. So you mentioned you, you mentioned, Jesus Christ, I just lost my train of thought. Oh, so So you mentioned before? So you mentioned pointing out people's hypocrisy. You've mentioned not not appealing to empathy when talking to people on the far right. And you mentioned how disgust, kind of girds everything underlies everything that they do. Is there anything other than disgust that you often run into in debating these people?

Vaush 26:02 Yeah, I think it's a very, it's a very juvenile desire to be able to live free of criticism. Yeah, this is yes, I think this is this is the core appeal that I tried to get at Disgust is very, very difficult to remove. If a person is just grossed out by trans people, there are probably 1000 empirically wrong things that they associate with that disgust. But the emotional reaction, those are just justifications, the emotional reaction is very difficult to get rid of. I can't do that rhetorically, at least not not in an afternoon. But what I can do. I'm a living example to that to too many people, many of them being disaffected, lonely, young, white dudes in the West, that you can be a left leaning person, not just left leaning, I mean, I'm pretty far left. And I can be radically edgy. I argue constantly with my audience with people who critique me online. I am irreverent I use and I understand this is contentious. But I've even gone up to bat for occasionally using racial slurs in contextually appropriate ways. I mean, I in every way, shape and form I represent the the epitome of I guess, the freedom, the the ability to act in spite of criticism that they look and admire in right leaning figures, except they do it without being a fucking Nazi. And I think they crave that because they feel like if you're a leftist, you have to be really like careful and walk on eggshells, and everyone gets offended really easily. And because that lifestyle is an obstacle to them living life in the way they want to, they will turn towards any political ideology that claims to be able to offer an alternative,

Stephen Bradford Long 27:42 right? You know, I had this really just going into some personal history here. So I left the internet in 2014 because of my mental health where I had like a full blown psychotic break. And so I just had to leave for like two or three years and then I came back in 2016. And I felt like leftist circles online had completely changed the the the atmosphere had become much more vicious, especially GamerGate fucking ruined. Yeah, GamerGate ruined everything. And the you know, the climate just became much more vicious. And, you know, I here's the thing, I'm, I'm a southern mountain boy, I was raised in an ultra conservative setting. And if it weren't for being gay, and coming out of the closet and finding, you know, queer circles, I would be probably a Trump guy, or an or an All right guy right now, like, for sure I would be some douchebag libertarian, and I was a douchebag libertarian through college when I was trying to be straight. And when I was on the verge of marrying a girl like, and then if it weren't for coming face to face with my own sexual minority status and confronting my own disgust towards myself, if it weren't for that I would not be where I am today. But that isn't to say that I don't that I didn't swim in those waters and said some stupid shit. You know? And so

Vaush 29:06 I'm just gonna say, I'm very fortunate to have been born into circumstances where I was never made to feel ashamed or disgusted about any part. In that respect.

Stephen Bradford Long 29:14 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You are very, very lucky. And and so, you know, when I confronted all that, I was forced to reconsider my views on just about everything. But then occasionally, I would still say stupid stuff online because I didn't understand trans people or I didn't understand Granted it was stupid. It was shitty, and but the dogpiling and villainizing that took place was far out of proportion. And was like kind of traumatizing

Vaush 29:45 almost, I'm telling you, it's the PC authoritarian left the PC cancel culture leftist. They're

Stephen Bradford Long 29:51 coming for you. Yeah, they are. Kidding. And

Vaush 29:54 to some extent, I'm not sure if I'm kidding, actually.

Stephen Bradford Long 29:58 Well, okay, here's getting here. Here's the thing. Here's here's the sad truth is there is a problem. But the good news is that it is not nearly as big a problem as the far right wants to make it out to be. Oh, unquestioned. Yeah, question, Can

Vaush 30:12 I really quickly address a sort of a conflation? I've noticed in leftist communities, yes, the but in regards, I think to the conflation of leftist circles, there are two things that a politically oriented space can be and they can be a space for advocacy, and they can be a space for comfort. Yeah. So I guess intellectual discourse or safe spaces, and I feel like the two the right and the left took two very different outlooks on how they should organize their political spaces. On Reddit. For example, back during Gamergate, a lot of the big right leaning subs like Kotaku in action, which became like the GamerGate subreddit, they weren't oriented around making their users comfortable. People argued in there all the time. They were vicious to each other, but they their viciousness towards one another was superseded by their overwhelming hatred and advocacy against feminism, cultural Marxism, PT, left, whatever, whatever. Whereas in the predominant left leaning subreddits they recoiled inward, they grew more insular, they grew more paranoid, they grew more close and defensive of their vulnerable communities. And I understand why that happened, because the rights vulnerable communities are gamers. And the left's vulnerable communities are fuckin trans people and gender and sexual minorities and people have targeted racial minorities and religious minorities. So it makes sense that we would have to be more careful about the safety of our constituency, right.

Stephen Bradford Long 31:32 They're more existentially fragile, right? They're more existentially fragile than white says gamers.

Vaush 31:38 But we went too fucking far. Most of the discussion spaces for the left turned into safe spaces, people went inwards rather than out. We stopped engaging in advocacy. We gave them YouTube, people didn't start making lefty YouTube videos until 2016. Like two or three years where they had uncontested supremacy over people's watch feeds, it got worse and worse and worse. And only after the Trump election. I think that people wake up and realize that this problem wasn't going to go away with snarky comments made in Twitter feeds for like your vote follower accounts that are exclusively insolently. Like, supporting one another and not engaging with the outside world. It's very frustrating. We need soldiers. We need strong, charismatic, open minded open hearted people who don't mind getting their hands dirty going out there and doing real advocacy. Because if we don't do that the Nazis are going to get to those kids first and they have been they

Stephen Bradford Long 32:35 are Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, pew, I think a good argument can be made that PewDiePie is radicalizing, like an entire generation of kids. Yeah, easily, easily. And and I mean, uh, okay, so a lot of my listeners, I have a lot of older listeners, you know, I have a very broad spectrum of generation listens to this show. And for people who who might not understand this PewDiePie has how many millions of subscribers I haven't Hold on. I think he's a bit above 90 now. 90 million, 90 million subscribers, most of them kids, a lot of kids ages like seven to

Vaush 33:11 2096 96 million.

Stephen Bradford Long 33:15 Yeah. 96 million subscribers, most of them kids, all right. And this is the guy who, who flirts with Nazi talking points. And he flirts with and he promotes figures like Peterson and he and he promotes far right Nazi ideologues. Okay, so I often hear in leftist circles, it is not my job to educate, educate, right at your job to educate yourself, it is your job to educate yourself. technically true. And here's the thing, if you are, if you are in a in a place of recovery, you know, especially for queer folks, if you're in a place of recovering from religious trauma, like deal with that shit first, however, I really believe and this is one thing that feels what I do. I really believe that our How do I want to say this, I really believe that the future is predicated on conversion. And if we don't, if we don't convert people, then then there's no hope. And if we don't go out and engage people where they are, then the left just has no hope. And so in a way it is our job to educate.

Vaush 34:24 Yeah, this is this is this is just I mean, like, I'm sorry, and I know this is like a boomer talking point. But life really isn't fair. There was never an end of history, there was never a point of comfort. We have as leftist always exist on the precipice of existential oblivion. And the only way especially now that the left doesn't just mean like anarchists and Unionists. Now, the left encompasses gender sexual minorities, racial minorities, so on and so forth. It now there's even more pins of intersectional oppression sort of stamping on us and if we want any shot whatsoever at making it into the next century, we cannot just capitulate the entire I already have the the triggering the micro aggressing. The, the I can't even internet to reactionaries. It's like this isn't I don't even I, I sympathize for people who are not personally in a place where they feel comfortable doing it. I understand that I really do. And I wouldn't advocate those people go out there and engage in advocacy that could be dangerous or threatening for them. But I know God damn well, there are 1000s of people who could be who aren't. Yeah, I'm really sick of that shit. I'm really sick every single time I make a YouTube video, for example, and whatever views 1015 20,000 people and I look at the comments. The comments are rife with people who agree with me if every single one of those people went out and did one thing, a single thing. Yeah, this is very, this is very dumb grassroots logic. Oh, if only everyone who watched this video went out and picked up a piece of trash litter. This is dumb. And I know I'm engaging in intellectually reductionist arguments right now. But it's frustrating to me because I know if you make if you're a right leaning person, and you make a video shitting on say, Anita Sarkeesian NAB Sarkeesian is going to wake up tomorrow with an inbox full of hate mail. Okay, if I make a video shitting on someone, that person is not going to wake up with hate mail. And sorry, not that I'm advocating we threaten or Doc's, the people we disagree. I would never do that. But it would be nice if we were a little more

Stephen Bradford Long 36:22 active if we were a bit more proactive. I 100% agree with that. Yeah, I completely agree with that the right fucking circle the rat, the wagons, like they lined the fuck up to protect their own and they they have internal disagreements, but I've been astonished by like, say for example, the Protestant Catholic conservative coalition that is formed against LGBT rights ancient enemies, age old enemies coming together to because they're both conservatives you know, shit like that. Whereas we can even get along on twitter.

Vaush 37:03 Nicolas Nicolas Fuentes says the little YouTube Nazi is a Catholic and he stands the kk k who lynched Catholic that there's a there's a here I don't know if he wants me to give his name out because this is so sensitive information. But there was a former far right figure on YouTube, who I had the privilege of speaking with recently. And he said that it's well known within their circles. You never go right? You never target right. No matter what exactly circumstances you never criticize somebody for being more conservative, more reactionary, more xenophobic than you never or you lose the support of everyone to the right of you.

Stephen Bradford Long 37:38 Yeah, yeah. And and so they circle the wagons and this isn't to say that I think that we should never criticize the left I mean, that's what we're doing here. We are definitely criticizing the left

Vaush 37:49 plenty of people criticize me Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah,

Stephen Bradford Long 37:52 exactly. And I think we should criticize the left however I don't know I just wish that you know the the metaphor that it often reminds me of is like you know all the different houses in Westeros fighting each other and killing each other

Vaush 38:06 while the while the night eternal frost. The Night

Stephen Bradford Long 38:11 King the winter, you know, the White Walkers are coming to destroy them.

Vaush 38:16 I say having I say having a bridge. It's season four. And now let's see anything since

Stephen Bradford Long 38:20 Exactly. Yeah. For everything, keep it that way. Keep it that way. It goes to go. What was that? Okay, say something. Hello? Okay, good. I have no idea what just happened but it's all fine now. But ya know, that way

Vaush 38:34 O'Brien's death to the mountain is probably as good of a highlight to leave the series off.

Stephen Bradford Long 38:38 Oh my god, I stopped watching them too. Because like I was so heartbroken over the hot bisexual. View sadness. Oh my god, I could not deal I was like the hot bisexual man who I had dreams about. Like I worshipped him and then just like a fucking like a grape. Yeah, no, that was deeply traumatizing. And I'm not sure if I've recovered yet from that. So so let's talk about some since we are already talking about critiquing the left. What are your pet peeves with the left?

Vaush 39:12 Oh, God. All right. Okay, you can just you can step away if you'd like to use the restroom or maybe take a hot shower. I've got this, okay. Okay. All right. I've got I'm here for it. Listen, okay, I'm here for two. Point number one sensitivity is not a virtue. It's not sensitivity that is to say, being easily offended does not make you a better person. It does not make anyone a bad person, it does not make the world a better place. There is a certain degree of callousness of joviality of irreverence, which is unquestionably a virtue, to be able to deal with the hard truths of life and take them on the shoulder with with a with a certain degree of you know, with a positive attitude. Frankly, there are some people to whom they conflate sensitivity with virtue, that the more keenly tuned they are to society. problems and the more aggressive they are in calling them out, then the more sincerely they care. I don't believe this. This is a lie. I don't believe this for a moment. There are many people out there and I'm mostly talking about Twitter, who, whose interest in leftism is is relegated almost exclusively to a vehicle through which they can push their own personal brand of moral superiority. Does that sound like when right wingers called left wingers? Virtue? signalers? Yes, yes, I believe they're right. Frankly. There are so many people on the left for whom it the advocacy. Nope. Good practice. Nope. convincing people? Nope. Doing anything pause in the world. Nope. But showing up in other people's mentions and correcting them on some terminology than telling them yanks. You need to do some reading. Yep. Big. Yep. That's what we're here for.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:49 It's about accruing social capital is what it is it you know, it's about accruing social currency. You know, I love Angela nagels point in her book, kill all normies which has come under some criticism, but she makes a great point and kill all normies where she says that virtue has become currency on Twitter. And as a result, we dunk on people, we destroy people, we're constantly looking for someone's inner demons so as to call it out and accrue virtue at the expense of that other person. And I'm just done with that. I'm so fucking done. Because here's the thing, none of us get out alive. None of us get out of that system out of that social currency alive because we're all fuck ups. And it creates a a system where we have to be dishonest about ourselves and who we are. I don't want to pretend to be a good person when I'm not necessarily always a good person. Like I don't want to pretend to be a decent human being when sometimes I'm not sometimes I haven't been and I want to be able to be human and honest about those things without having and not having to hide those things. I think we'll just be such a better place. Does that make sense? rationally?

Vaush 42:00 No, I'm questionably and I agree perfectly and I think any even a cursory look to my stream. I recently I recently put up a video on black conservative so it was a response I was watching this morning. Yeah, yep. And enter and two minutes into the video. The first thing I say is that I love yelling at Black people because I still have pent up energy from being a libcaca for getting upset that I couldn't criticize black people with bad takes because I didn't want to speak over POC voices. So it was a joke, of course one, obviously. But and then five minutes in the video I'm arguing with my girlfriend over whether weird about black people. No.

Stephen Bradford Long 42:34 I was watching that. Yeah, all very

Vaush 42:36 course, obviously. And it made a lot of people uncomfortable, but fine. I'm not interested in promoting myself as some like supremely moral person. And if anything, I think one of the most immoral things you can do is to pose yourself as this unfathomable paragon of virtue, but to do nothing with it. So to all of the people out there whose contributions to the world are simply existing in some state of ivory tower moral superiority because you're constantly correcting other people's terminology or telling people the need to read up or being super sympathetic to other disadvantaged people in a way that doesn't actually require you to do anything. You just have to say to those people, I would say put your money where your mouth is do something, make a YouTube video, make startup anymore, go do some practice and like takeover a Facebook conservative group page and turn it into like a gay pride. Anthem do suck just do something. Because I'm sick the every time I look at these people when they criticize me not to say I don't get valid criticisms, that's a daily thing. But often I look at the people who criticize me and I take a look at what their sort of profile is about how do they present themselves to the world, and it's exclusively about maintaining the facade the facility of the most hyper sensitive, most achingly orthodox lefty little bitch baby imaginable and we get nothing these people do nothing the world isn't made a better place for this guy right?

Stephen Bradford Long 44:03 And I know I'm and oh my god, I know I'm gonna get so much heat for having you on the show. But here's the thing here's why I have you on who's the one talking to the Nazis? Who's the one actually converting them who's the one actually compelling the Nazis who are winnable to come to the left? Who's the one actually doing that? It's you and

Vaush 44:22 I, every day I get like an email or a message or several being like, Hey, I used to be on like the I guess they call it the pipeline. But I saw you and I saw messages on the bread tube separate or posts like, Hey, I just got into the left from VOSH I don't do this. This isn't a braggadocious thing for me. This isn't like I don't have any credit that I'm trying to inflate. I my goal. I guess from the onset, when I made this was if I can live if I can literally just convince one person I left undone my like carbon weight in the world. You know, I will. That is my that is me replicating myself, but I've done so hundreds or even 1000s of times over I agree. And I I I mean, if I would ask any of my detractors, then if what I do is unnecessary if what I do is course and cheapens discourse and doesn't represent the left. Well, why does it work? And if you want to create a better alternative, someone who does what I do, but does it without many of my edgy eccentricities, please do? God, we need it, please,

Stephen Bradford Long 45:21 here's what I'm taking out of this. And what I've been thinking about a lot lately is we need a multiplicity of reactions. We need a multiplicity of methods and how we attack this issue. And there's a place for someone like me, who's you know, pretty even keeled and very measured and pretty subdued almost to a fault. And then there are people like you who aren't who are, who are rage machines and,

Vaush 45:46 and who are calling for this discussion. To my credit.

Stephen Bradford Long 45:49 Yeah, you are, you're being very, very good boy, you're being a very, very good boy. Yeah. And then there are people like you who are just hilarious rage machines and who have this wit that I do not have, but but there are different methods that are needed. And so before when I see people kind of dunk on people like you or Chapo trap house, or you know, that that far left dirtbag ish, I just want to tell people to look at the stakes. Look at the world we live in right now and realize that we need this kind of discourse in and we can't be complaining about it.

Vaush 46:30 It's I mean, I think we all need to remember that people will always gravitate towards comfort, very rare, there are very few there are very few people with the moral fortitude to recognize they're doing something wrong, even though that wrong thing feels good, even though that from thing could continue to feel good with no negative outcomes for the rest of their life, at least not negative outcomes for them. And then to change it. Very few people can do that. Now, people should do that. I mean, that's why we have vegans, right? A lot of vegans recognize the fundamental immorality of the animal abuses committed by the meat farming industry. And then we have me who does but it's not a vegan because the comfort of eating food and dairy soup, I mean, meat and dairy supersedes my moral, I am weak, you see, but so are other people. And if you are a kid, an edgy teenage libertarian as I once was, yep. Ron Paul, me too. It felt good. It felt good. And you know, what if I was courted by two different groups of people, and one of them the first one is a fascist, they wouldn't tell me that, of course, they would say they're, you know, left leaning centrist or, you know, classical liberal or something, but they would come at me and they would say, like, hey, you know, this cool Remember all those times something your world would shit remember when Tyrone slept with with Sansa that chick you're crushing on. There's a lot of problems going on in the world right now. You're perfect the way you are, as long as you're white and a man. But this is the world's fucked up and hey, listen, come with me, I'm going to show you I'm going to show you what's wrong with the world, you won't have to change anything about your behavior, you won't have to be nice, you won't have to be morally consistent, you won't have to be ethical, you won't have to be intelligent. All you have to do is hate who he tells you to. Yeah, and then on the left leaning side, we have pay. So there are a lot of problems with the world, like like that other guy said. But actually, as it turns out, the problems are with you, or at least with people who look like you and act like you. So you're gonna need to change a lot about your behavior, we're going to need to teach you about institutional racism and sexism. And we need to actually come at five, we're gonna need to scrap this whole thing. You'll basically be a completely different person in five years if you follow us, but it'll be better not for you, but for like black people and women. Now, these are obviously very uncharitable and hyperbolic representations of how these people are coded. But I think this is how it

Stephen Bradford Long 48:44 feels it is 100% how it feels because that's how it felt to me. Yeah, yeah. And 100%

Vaush 48:50 putting our best foot forward and not even slightly

Stephen Bradford Long 48:53 Yeah, yeah, so we'll just go right into maybe the the more awkward part of the conversation. All right,

Vaush 48:59 I love awkward.

Stephen Bradford Long 49:00 I know you do so as probably some viewers will point out, you have been accused of something sexual misconduct. Now I have my thoughts on this. And I will share them in a moment but go ahead and go ahead and address that. Yeah, so

Vaush 49:15 the gist of it and I'm glad you brought this up. Because it seems to it seems to follow me which I think it should but I wish the discourse surrounding it was a little bit more productive. So essentially, about a year and a half ago on Discord. I had a friendship on blind with ago, I didn't have a public platform at this time. We were just two randos but we were friends for a couple of months. And it was a mutually I would say toxic relationship and that we were both fairly mentally unwell. But for the most part, the conversation was something we both perpetuated. And then when it ended because we got into a big argument, the person with whom I had spoken, accused me of having sexually harassed her. And at first I felt like no, I fucking didn't What the fuck you talking about? And and there was a big hullabaloo about it back then. But it kind of petered out until a few months ago, at which point it came up again, except this time in a much bigger context, because of my public figure now, so obviously, the so and I looked over the logs again, and I looked over it, and I was like, Wait, yeah, this is kind of fun. Right? Okay. Wait, hold on. It was

Stephen Bradford Long 50:21 looked over there looked over the logs of your conversations with this girl.

Vaush 50:25 Right, right. Yes. Yeah, very Yikes. See, yeah. And I'm a very prideful person, it should not take much viewing of my content for a person to recognize that it is difficult for me to admit fault, but that was unquestionably bad behavior. So I saw I wanted to be so I made a video on it on the drama, like in regards to recent drama on my channel, and I think I addressed the sort of central points and Okay, so that happened, and that was bad. And I think we all do a fair number of bad things. I think what was worse, at least in the immediate sense was that I've reacted initially very like pridefully to the accusations. And as you probably know, when I somebody says something I think is fucking stupid. I don't just politely disagree with them. So I dug I dug myself into something of a hole. The broader gist of it though, is that I see the the allegations i What's the term for substantiated allegations, accusations? I see this drama brought up fairly frequently in online circles, as I think it should, I would never exempt myself from criticism. Other things. It frustrates me there are a lot of people who say things that are like kinda untrue. Like they call me like a rapist or whatever, which is unfortunate, but it happens I guess it'd be sort of pretentious for me to assume that I would be like the one online person over whom there was no hyperpolarization concerning allegations of sexual or sexually inappropriate behavior. But yeah, I guess if I if I had one thing to say about it, like in a specific sense, it would be like just feel free to criticize me I'm totally okay with that. But please don't do so when like this really weird like punitive way because there are a lot of people I've seen who were like arguing whether or not I should be allowed to have a public platform I already have one it's not going away. Yeah, so maybe argue for like nothing I could do or maybe I should like, do like something to be productive please because there are so many conversations that are rooted in outrage and nothing else.

Stephen Bradford Long 52:21 Yeah, so here are my thoughts on this you are you so you've been accused of these things? And I recommend everyone go check out your video on the subject because I watched that video and I was personally satisfied because you expressed grief over what what you've realized was actually unacceptable creepy behavior you called it such you real you said it was creepy you said that you were sorry that you are committing to doing better and and I believe you you know I have no reason not to believe you and none of this is to say that there isn't maybe deep hurt or harm from victims of of this stuff that isn't to say this at all, but here's the thing I can personally hold rehabilitative justice with acknowledging how much stuff like this hurts people. And so I know that a lot of people listening to this will hear me will hear me favor one or the other and it is not that is not the case at all. You know, I think that you VOSH probably fucked up and you admitted that you fucked up and you've and you have a have a said that you're going to do better and I'm great with that. I'm here for that because my only oh sorry. Because you know, here's the thing we all fuck up none of us would get out of this thing like I've done shit I'm deeply ashamed of you know?

Vaush 53:49 Yeah, no no yeah cuz that's because that I think that was the real like turning point like when I looked over the logs that I that I typed out like two years ago or whatever, I guess the main can see it wasn't just oh, this was bad because it was the main conceit was like if this was bad and I didn't know it What else have I done that shitty you know I and I think like I don't I don't think I have any like like hidden terrorist attacks that have that are going to come out and then you like anything that I've supplanted in my memory or any nonsense like that but but I think that I suppose I'm thankful for the humbling experience but it's not really about me. i There's it's very difficult for me to speak on the side and I'll just be frank because I have to strike a very fine line between expressing I think just the frustration of people who just lie about it online. Yeah, expressing like, like, like regret over my behavior which is sincere while also maintaining the kind of irreverent edge that I Yeah, so because that's that's not an act I am that person. It's very difficult for me to maintain I hope I'm doing my best but the only thing that I would say like in the at the end of the day is probably in its simplest form. You should never just take my word what took place cuz I'm obviously a biased party, the logs are linked underneath the video of the chat logs, if you want to look at that, if you're so inclined, they're mostly pretty boring. But overall, if you have a problem with me or my behavior I ask of you, and this is very sincere, okay? Email me at VOSH vidya@gmail.com. And let me know your problems. And let me know if there's something I can do that would make you feel like better or, or that you think would in some way, improve the situation, please, because because I because not all these are going to be good. I know somebody's gonna message saying, like, delete your account. So not everyone's going to have the best. But I'm here for it. I'm not antagonistic. When it comes to the subject, I just wish I could have good Convos about it, you know,

Stephen Bradford Long 55:43 and this whole thing is representing something that I think is actually really interesting. I think this is like, a cultural a microcosm of a cultural moment or a larger Zeitgeist in our culture, which is, a lot of us, a lot of us make enormous mistakes sexually, like a lot of us do. And by mistakes, I mean, bordering on abuse, and or, if not outright abuse, we live in a culture of abuse in such a way that you know, it's it's what people are always going on, about in regards to rape, culture it in that, you know, we live in a culture where we take advantage of others, we watch people take advantage of others, and television and books and movies, and it's, it's absorbed, and we're becoming more aware of it, and none of us are exempt. Like, this touches all of us, I think what you're going through is this weird microcosm of what a lot of people are going through of realizing, Oh, shit, that thing I did five years ago or 10 years ago was not okay, and maybe realizing it for the first time and coming to terms with you probably hurt someone. And how do we deal with that? And I think that you're dealing it dealing with it the best way you know how and what I want to point out is to my listeners, who might be tempted to point an accusing finger, I just want to encourage a little bit of introspection, because we at this point, oh, sorry, sorry. Well, just because we all live in this culture. You know, we all live in these we all swim in these waters. And and yeah, I you know,

Vaush 57:17 sex is the sex is like the intersection of 1000 really strange social hangups that we have. I mean, I don't even necessarily disagree with Andrea Dworkin is perspective that all sex between men and women is rape, because women are, are socially raised to be deferential and submissive towards men in many cases. So the consent can never really be taken for granted. Now, obviously, treating every instance of heterosexual sex that like rape would be impractical. But, but I think there's a lot to be said from that take that we have to recognize that in a broader social sense, the the underpinnings of sexual violence are not just people being bad, or like horny or shitty or sexist or whatever. It's actually the root of a billion really complicated little micro conceptions that are difficult to pull apart, even with decades of experience, and for like hindsight to look over. And I want to end there's one specific thing and I think I have to be edgy and irreverent. Again, we are very fixated on sexual abuse as this shorthand for a person being bad, maybe and I'm speaking right now from the privileged position of somebody who has never been the victim of sexual abuse. I want to make that very clear from the upfront sexual abuse is bad. Obviously, the only reason by the way I say that is to virtue signal call me out on it. Okay. Obviously, I think it's bad. I'm not a fucking idiot. Yes, more. More importantly, and we see this in regards to like the, the Harvey Weinstein or we see this in regards to the Cavanaugh very often are impugn Minh of a person's moral character hinges very strongly on this on this weird assertion that sexual misconduct is magnitudes worse than then than any other form. So I would go so far, for example, to say that, you know, Sargon of Akkad I'm sure that oh, yeah, you can, I would go so far as to say that the social harm that's caused by his videos, the rhetoric he's disseminated that so on and so forth, that he's done is probably worse then I'm gonna make I'm gonna make up a number of 1000 10,000 individual acts of sexual assault. Yeah, I'll defend that claim any day. He's normalized like the pipeline from skeptic skepticism to fascism in like five years, he's probably brought on 10s of 1000s of people who will then themselves become reactionaries, abusers and otherwise pieces of shit. I would say that's massively worse. But I guarantee you if a scandal came out about him having say raped somebody, he would be thrown in much hotter shit than he ever would be for all the political advocacy. He's done. And it's strange to me, and I don't know and I'm being sincere when I say I don't know. I don't know if this is a product of like old world sexual values where we still think there's something weird and imputable and like special about sex, or if it has something to do with the left's sensitivity to sexual assault, because so many because it's a very gendered problem. I genuinely don't know. But it's really it's really weird to me how it just seems like an inconsistency. And I don't know if we go too far in one respect or not far enough than the other right, if that makes sense. So that was very much rambling.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:00:26 Yeah, I think it does. So basically, what you're saying is yes, sexual abuse is bad sexual abuse is wrong and it does cause abuse but we we can disproportionately focus on it on the left and and tolerate other forms of wrongdoing like disseminating mass propaganda out to millions of kids who will then turn into sexual predators or turn. Yeah, I've thought

Vaush 1:00:51 of a very good way of of disseminating my point and I'm much more sociologically consistent way. It's, it's observed in prison populations, that that very often the reason why pedophiles when admitted into the prison system, are assaulted and beaten, and murdered and other horrid things is because there is nothing in our society looked down upon more than somebody who had sexually abused as a child. So all the people in their themselves rapists, murderers, thieves, in many cases, especially those who join these hardcore prison gangs that engage in the violence, they can feel better about themselves engaging in violence against this one person who was beneath them. And I feel like and this is this reminds me of the rights obsession with pizza gate, the Podesta emails and such, the idea that like there's this grand conspiracy of like child rapists in the government. And they focus on this and they moralize about it really hard. They really care about this. It's sincere. I don't think they're lying. But it's, I think, a facade a bit of smoke bomb thrown to the ground, because they their moral fixation on this is a way of excusing. Oh, who cares what values I hold. In other respects. It doesn't matter if I'm wrong on this, this and this because I am the group of people trying to fight against child rape, and everyone who disagrees with me must implicitly be in favor of it. So an inconsistent attitude towards moralization and moral standards seems to me to be a gateway towards a lot of bad thought. I will just be interested in seeing people be a little bit more critical of why they think the things they do

Stephen Bradford Long 1:02:21 so What steps are you taking to do better in regards to my

Vaush 1:02:25 personal behavior? Yeah, I'm on I'm in fucking flirt jail. Okay. Listen, there are a ton of people, my community is fucking full of horny as fuck trans girls. Okay, I think it's probably because I'm one of the most aggressively pro trans people. The like in the lefty sphere. I mean, you obviously like contract. So I'm very aggressive about it. And they're and they're all they're all up in my DMs I'm in fucking common flirt jail. Okay. Now, mind you, while there is obviously a power dynamic between between like a fan and at a content creator. Unquestionably, I'm not of the opinion that it's impossible to engage in any kind of relation between those two things. Without it being abusive. I think that there needs to be a greater care towards responsibility. I think that saying that just all interaction between the two is outright bad is a very stupid moral shorthand, which doesn't really address the core issue. But with that being said, yeah, we've got we've got flirt JL and if I ever if I ever did feel like in the future, I'm very, I'm very slowly. So if I ever did feel like hooking up with a fan, it would be like, my partner, and I talk with them with weeks beforehand to make sure they don't have any weird, like, yeah, what's the term parasocial relationship thing going on, where they were the hits, like, oh, they really, really liked me, and they want to like, kill my girlfriend and become the next one or something like that. I don't want that sofa. So I'm trying. So in the shorthand, I'm trying to be a lot more responsible with how I engage with other people, not just as a content creator, but also like individually, because as time has gone on, I've grown more cognizant of the extent to which many people are just and pardon my French not doing great in the fucking head. And, and that includes me, and it can go a long way towards circumventing or undermining the extent to which I believe in interaction is healthy or consensual or safe. So I'm just trying to be a lot more critical self critical of those aspects. Sure.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:04:21 Yeah. And you know, you seem really open to criticism, you seem really open to correction, and I respect that and I am too and so if people are uncomfortable with me having VOSH on and want to give me some perspective about why I did why I made a mistake. Let me know, send me your angry emails, and I'll read them but you know, VOSH so far, and also, here's the thing I'm not opposed to like running you over with a truck if you come out to actually have not improved at all. Like, I'm not opposed to throwing you off a fucking cliff.

Vaush 1:04:59 You You think you think you can just throw those words out at me? You think if I do I want to die. Okay, I need you coming at me I have that truck running

Stephen Bradford Long 1:05:08 and you know and here's the thing that's I hear that and I respect that and I get that vibe from you that that you're trying to do better and I'm not afraid of saying you know, I had this douchebag on my show I thought I was right too but I wasn't because he's a fucking monster like I'm not afraid of eventually saying that if I have to right now I don't think I will because you've

Vaush 1:05:32 got my fun or you could kill me with breath I know the modern technology you know about phone bullets they go right to the receiver okay, right Yeah, right. I

Stephen Bradford Long 1:05:42 will. I will send I'll just send a demon right through the phone to go strangle you to go fuck you to death

Vaush 1:05:48 before Apollo please God. I thought I was gonna die of like heart cancer with how I please God last like that like that

Stephen Bradford Long 1:05:57 dildo demon and American Horror Story and hotel the dildo monster the gummy gooey like mid covered in glue dildo monster who comes and literally rapes gay guys to death.

Vaush 1:06:10 I can't I have never watched. I have never watched that. But I think I may have read several you are comics that were inspired specifically for that.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:06:17 You are you're not missing out, sir. But anyway, okay, all that to say we got on a tangent, but bringing it back, bringing it back. I am not opposed to throwing you off a cliff and just denouncing the shit out of you. If you turn out to have not improved if you turn out to have not grown, but at the same time, I believe that we all need a chance to grow. And I think that we all fuck up in some way. And I think you're growing and I think that's a good thing. Your your content is also great. You're doing amazing work. And also I'm not opposed to criticism if people want to email me Tell me why I made a mistake. I'm open to that. I want to hear it.

Vaush 1:06:57 Hey, listen, here's my here's my contemporary argument. Okay, there are a lot of fucking hot girls guys and then based slide into my DMs who I ignore all right, listen up Don't let my ignoring them be in favor okay? Because they're really fucking hot. I'm doing this I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this for me. I'm doing this for the world. Okay, I'm turning them the fuck away. So you better Alright, listen up. It was really hard. Okay Have some respect. Before before we before we before it because because I can sense things pointing down someone and yes, we have but a final like fun. Can I can I sort of get my mission statement in all of this, please do if I may. Please do um, I am I think in a lot of respects kind of a strange person. And I don't mean that as a as a point of virtue there is in some respect a virtue to normalcy. But there are certain things that we do that I think I do very well. There are not many rhetorician on the left who are like me, there are not very many people on the left, who can engage with arguments immediately on the fly, who can keep their cool in front of Nazis who can make other people angry. And that doesn't mean that I'm not like special. It's just a set of skills I developed while being more right leaning that I have since taken into my lefty state. And I understand that my edgy irreverence is going to make me unappealing to many and I'm totally okay with that. Because my goal isn't to satisfy you. My cure already left your fine. My goal and that's why I banned sectarianism in my server. And I don't argue with leftists I don't care what happens after you go to the left, as long as you don't turn into some weird class reductionist. tanky I'm totally cool with whatever you do after you go left. I care about the people in the middle. Those are the people i i pick up with my shovel and I send them to you so you can turn them into better leftists I just want to make them stop being fucking fascists.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:08:37 So you sent them to me to become you know, hand wringing milquetoast liberal. Yeah,

Vaush 1:08:41 absolutely. Very, very nice voices, by the way, and that's all I care about. All I care about is fighting fascism. In that way. I'll argue with anyone, I'll do anything. And I'll argue, in next to anyone, if Lauren southern decided to stop being a literal, white nationalist, and like a year from now came back, like, Hey, I'm on the left. Now gay rights. I don't give a fuck if she's grifting. I'll work with her. Because every single person that I can convert using her is another person who can vote Trump, another person who can't run out in the streets and fascist rallies another person who can't fucking talk under CNN news article, common sections, talking about gay people gross. I just don't care about anything else. That's all I care about. And if you want to criticize me, feel free to do so. But if you're going to get rid of me, make sure there's somebody to replace me.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:09:28 Absolutely. Yes, that final point. Exactly. Because, you know, and for threat of beating a dead horse, who else is converting Nazis and like, Yeah, you're a bit irreverent. You're a bit edgy. You're a bit over the top and I'm not I am not like you at all. I have a totally different style, but I'm not the one converting Nazis. You know, I'm not the one pulling people off the cliff of white nationalism and reactionary politics and and so I just look at the times we're in, I look at the stakes and I think think that people like you are unnecessary. So I really enjoy your work for people who want to check you out. Where can they find you?

Vaush 1:10:06 Yeah, well, first of all, I gotta say, I enjoyed speaking with you tremendously, and even through even through my phone $26 Phone earbuds. You have such a sonorous voice.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:10:16 So Oh, that's very sweet of you. You do too. You have a choice.

Vaush 1:10:20 Thank you. I have a website actually where I've consolidated everything. It's my last bunker in case YouTube gets me to Okay, that's my final front. But it's vosh.gg. So VA U S. h.gg. And everything else can be found from there and yeah, I stream like probably like five or six days a week, so I guess I couldn't help I see my folks on my chat sometime

Stephen Bradford Long 1:10:42 nonstop. If ever you want to see Ben Shapiro or we're Oh, who's that? Who's that piece of shit who goes to college? Prove me wrong? Steven Crowder. Steven Crowder fucking hates him. Yeah, he's like your arch nemesis. I fucking hate that guy to actually just while recording this. Or just before recording this. One of my friends on the right was like so. So do you like any right wing creators? Do you? I was like, Oh, well, I have a friend who's kind of on the right. And he's a YouTuber. And I was like, I'm a fan of him. I like him because I know him. I know. He's a good guy. But then he was like, but do you like Steven Crowder? I'm like, No,

Vaush 1:11:16 I'm not joking. And I can I can make this very openly. I think that Steven Crowder and Sargon of Akkad are two of the most dangerous or have done some of the most harm I put them well above Ben Shapiro. I agree. I put them above pretty much any right leaning demagogue, those two are horrific human beings.

Stephen Bradford Long 1:11:32 I 100%. Agree. Yeah. And actually, for listeners who are interested to hear more about these people, I did a whole podcast interview with Professor Ben Burgess, author of logic or No, give them an argument logic for the left, where he addresses a lot of the arguments coming from these figures. So if you want to actually be equipped with arguments for the left instead of just resort to disgust, then please check out Ben Burgess. His work. All right. Well, so VOSH this has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed it. Maybe we can do this again. I'd be delighted. I've had an enormous amount of fun. I'm so very glad. All right. Well, that is it for this show. The music as usual is by the jelly rocks and eleventy seven you can find their music on iTunes and Spotify wherever you listen to music. Also, be sure to go check out our other shows on the rock candy podcast network, we have eleventy life. We have Bible bash, we have bubble and squeak we have more shows coming on in the near future. So keep an eye out for that. Also, if you want to support the show, please go write a nice five star review on iTunes. It really helps our digital overlords pay attention to me and raise me up in the mire so that other listeners can find I'm doing it right now. Oh that's so sweet of you. That's the best. So definitely go give me five stars you can share it with your friends and if you are financially able please go support me on patreon I'm an impoverished millennial I am working myself to death I already work full time and I do this show so every little bit really really helps so all right well with that thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you next week peace

1:13:31 sprawl is click here for the next one to blame but he might ruin it as training fingers of microbes we've got a move down to the new seeds and I wonder as I wander Why was your tables in the microwave? Your tables as we weighed in the micro