Podcasts/Sacred Tension-STNeedsMust

STNeedsMust SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, book, tst, writing, read, satanism, arkansas, lemon squares, religious, satanists, satanist, hail satan, drag queens, russian orthodox church, piece, called, baphomet, formatted, part, talk SPEAKERS Jack Matirko, Stephen Bradford Long

Stephen Bradford Long 00:00 You're listening to a rock candy podcast this is sacred tension, the podcast about the discipline of asking questions. My name is Steven Bradford long and we are here on the rock candy Podcast Network. For more shows like this one, go to rock candy recordings.com All right. Before we get started as always, I have to thank my patrons who are funding my debilitating content creation addiction. This show is a one man operation I do all of the recording all the editing all the booking, and as Jackman Turco here can attest to sometimes booking is a crazy process. Yeah. We went back and forth forever trying to get a time. But here we are. Alright, so for this week, I have to thank Elizabeth Washburn Nixie Lionheart, Diane Koch Neff and Patricia Moreno patrons who have signed up over the past month. And for anyone who signs up you get extra content every single week, including my house of heretics podcast with EX Salvation Army officer turned Christian heretic Timothy McPherson, and we talk about politics whatever's going on in the world that day theology, Christianity, Satanism, philosophy, all kinds of interesting things. And as a patron, you can listen in live and join in on the chat every Wednesday morning. So if that's interesting to you, and you would like to support my work, then please just $1 a month is all it takes to keep me off the streets sucking dicks to fund my content creation addiction. Alright, with all of that out of the way, Sal Jackman Turco how are you?

Jack Matirko 02:02 I'm doing surprisingly, okay. I think

Stephen Bradford Long 02:05 I'm so glad it's been too long is whenever whenever you show up on the show, I'm like, wow, it's been it's been way too long. I enjoy.

Jack Matirko 02:13 We have these big gaps between when we Yes, we do are on one of each other's media somehow. Exactly. Exactly. So

Stephen Bradford Long 02:20 but you you are on today, because you have a book. Yeah. Do you sent me a PDF? Yes, nee it is called needs must. He is showing it but this but because this is a podcast. None of you can see it. You can see it. How? However, yeah, you sent me a PDF of it like an hour ago. I look? Well, I looked at

Jack Matirko 02:44 the thing is you you've been around the whole thing long enough that you read most of the patios content while I was writing it,

Stephen Bradford Long 02:53 and absolutely no, and I'm super familiar with the work. I've been following your blog for years I was following. For infernal use only your blog was one of the first things that I discovered when I became a Satanist back in 2017, like it was when I was doing the Google's for Satanism trying to find information on Satanism. And in 2017 2018 year blog was one of the top resources I tried. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a great blog. And now by the way, you are still writing at only sky.

Jack Matirko 03:28 Yeah, I'm over at only Sky dot media now, which is kind of how the book happened. Because when we made the move, you know, under the under the contract path, iOS had universal rights to just keep the content up, right. But then, after all the non religious channel, people left, they, they decided to take it down. And I spent enough time doing document production formatting that I can put it in a book. So that's what I did. Yeah, that's

Stephen Bradford Long 03:56 amazing. So I was glancing over the table of contents. And it's a really, really valuable resource what you've put together here because it's basically like a journal. Now you're not a you're not a journalist. Why would you be a columnist? It's like a columnist. It's is like a columnist history of tst. Over the past, I don't know how long five years

Jack Matirko 04:22 that covers 2017 to 2021.

Stephen Bradford Long 04:25 Yeah. 2017 to 2021. And, and it's articles, like current events, in Satanism with some philosophy. And I think it's a I think, you know, we need more people doing stuff like that kind of being archivers of our history. Because this, that stuff is important. And as our religion grows and hopefully moves into the future, you know, I think that your book might be a reference point for for a lot of them.

Jack Matirko 04:57 Yeah, that's kind of what I wanted to be like a time Incapsula this was the contemporaneous reporting while it was happening for this period,

Stephen Bradford Long 05:05 right, right. So I don't think that we we've talked about this yet. Or maybe we did. You've been on several times. And I, I, I just glanced actually, at the episode count. I am now at just over 200 episodes on sacred tension, I think, maybe, or maybe just under Yeah. So you are a handful of those 200 ish episodes. So we probably talked about this, but I don't remember what got you writing about Satanism? In the first place? What was the thing that inspired you to be like, okay, Satanism, of all the things in the world, I could write about knitting, I could write about goats. But is that?

Jack Matirko 05:51 Well, the, it's mostly just a timeline of associations and who I was connecting with, while pursuing my own activist agenda, right. Like, I was doing a podcast called left hemispheres, when the rick Scott rally thing happened. And we covered that on that show. And I was like, Oh, this is an interesting idea. And then

Stephen Bradford Long 06:14 for we're going to have to tell people what the rick Scott rally was. Oh,

Jack Matirko 06:18 we're gonna have to tell. That's right at the start of the document at the hail satan dark. Oh, yes, it is. Yeah. So everyone, just go watch hail satan. Yeah. And then you'll get it, and then you'll get it. So so that was the first time I heard about DSD. And then, as things kind of progressed, and they started doing the reproductive rights campaign, I thought that was a great idea. And that's when me and Andy were doing naked diner, which we managed to get Jackson and like, the weekend after we had Jack's on the show on the weekend, and then that next Monday was when the Phoenix invocation thing happened. Right, right. There's already like, okay, here are these two students shall say that say that well, ourselves to them and see what they're doing.

Stephen Bradford Long 07:01 You broke up momentarily. So So you had that was when the Phoenix thing happened?

Jack Matirko 07:08 Yeah. Okay. So right after we had taped with Jax to talk about the reproductive rights stuff, was when the Phoenix invocation thing happened, right with Steve and Michelle. So that is what snowballed me into getting in touch with them and getting more involved that way.

Stephen Bradford Long 07:26 Yeah. And Stu wrote the introduction to your Yeah, wonderful forward, very,

Jack Matirko 07:31 probably more glowing about me than I'm comfortable with. But well, he's very good forward from Stu. Stu is great. on that. Yeah. He's

Stephen Bradford Long 07:39 a great friend. And yeah, he's awesome. He everyone should go watch the show that you did with him on on. What's it come to see? Do you want to see th Yes, Devil's dispatch anyway, so yeah, so you just kind of as a content creator, as a blogger, you found yourself kind of continually engaging in Ts TS history is what is what I'm hearing you say where it's like, oh, this is interesting. And you just find yourself connecting with people and kind of engaging with the seminal moments in Ts TS history like the Arizona incident that sounds like it was a UFO abduction. The air is the the council what what did you just call it

Jack Matirko 08:27 the the Phoenix in location? Yes.

Stephen Bradford Long 08:30 The Phoenix. Yes. The invocation situation, all of which can. That's also in the TIA in the hail satan documentary. Yeah, yeah. So so a lot of these big moments are in the hail satan documentary, and you've just kind of found yourself reporting on them and being drawn into them. And, and a lot of these events are in your book.

Jack Matirko 08:56 Yeah. Well, I tried to I think, at the time mostly was the thing about the site that I was working on, it was it was nominally, you know, interfaith participatory dialogue kind of thing. And so I think it was important that somebody who was on there to be like, Well, okay, we're going to take this Satanism idea seriously, and, you know, make the best case that I can for where I what I think they're trying to say, and if they've got a good point or not, and I think they always have and I've always kind of, you know,

Stephen Bradford Long 09:33 well, you did something really important at patios, where so patios is, I would say, the primary platform on the internet for quote unquote, religious dialogue will it's I guess it's an open debate as to how much religious dialogue actually happens at patios. But you were one of the I think you were the first satanist in that forum, to basically You're like, Yes, I am. I am a Satanist. And I deserve to be part of this conversation and part of the platform

Jack Matirko 10:06 if it wouldn't have happened without headquarters being a thing, either. Oh, so the Arizona chapter, we were there for Steve and Michelle to give talks and stuff, and we just all kind of like, well, let's all go take a vacation in Salem. And so we were all hanging out there. And I was talking to Lucien at some point. And he had mentioned SE and said that he kept mailing the editors trying to figure out how to get space there. And I had already known the editor of the nonreligious channel, because he had been on my show a few times. So I reached out to him and it was kind of a let me see what I can do situation. And then a couple months later, I Okay, we've got a blog, man, what are we gonna?

Stephen Bradford Long 10:47 Amazing? Yeah, and and for infernal use only it was kind of a collect, it was mostly you, but there would like elusion would occasionally

Jack Matirko 10:55 read some stuff. Daniel from Black Mass Appeal contributed a couple times.

Stephen Bradford Long 11:02 Yeah, it was a fantastic blog. And so now you've consolidated it. Like I guess the greatest hits of foreign Furnell. Use only?

Jack Matirko 11:13 Yeah, and I've just kind of roughly organized it by type of activity. Right. So so there's a chunk that's Arkansas, there's the chunk. That's reproductive rights and

Stephen Bradford Long 11:23 awesome. And, and yeah, and I saw that you did it by theme. Like, there is one one, like there was a section about autonomy, a section on freedom. Yeah, I'd

Jack Matirko 11:33 say I pulled one word from each of the tenants. And just like, okay, that this is what one does.

Stephen Bradford Long 11:41 So as you've been going through that consolidating process, as you went through that process of editing this book, and you were going through these old articles, very often, when I do that, I, I notice new things in my own work, and maybe new themes come to the surface, or did anything like that happen for you, as you were organizing this book, what came to the fore?

Jack Matirko 12:07 It wasn't so much that as I think it's, it's one thing in the moment when you're writing, you know, a couple articles a week, and it's very, okay, you're switching from one topic to the next, depending on what the news cycle is, versus having all the articles in one place. And going reading one after the other, in the end getting a full, like storylines scope of this years long block of time, I think adds, it makes me think about a different way. You know, so a story started to emerge. Well, I you're kind of following the story arc of each thing, because because if you're following the Arkansas case, that's one thing, if you're following reproductive rights stuff, that's another thing, but reading all of it at one time, as like, and kind of ignoring the other stuff until you get to that chapter is a very different way to it is, I think that there's, there's especially, you know, since we see things growing at a rapid pace, and more and more people getting involved who don't know any of the stuff from a few years ago, it's, there's a certain amount of hindsight is 2020. When you look at like, you know, a case that got lost or something, to say, Oh, well, that didn't work. That was a dumb idea or whatever. Right? But but to see what the the argument was contemporaneously at the time, like, what, what the legal arguments they were making, then at the time, it can

Stephen Bradford Long 13:35 help us why are they more gracious? can help us? You know, like, you were saying, there's so many people were very critical of, of, you know, tsps, quote, unquote, failures. Well, maybe looking at the arguments at the time, and what they were trying to do would help, you know, generate a bit more charity. Yeah. Is this so? I don't, I can't remember if we've talked about this in the past. Were you raised religious at all?

Jack Matirko 14:02 Um, yes and no, right. Like, my grandmother was really religious. And my mother, not so much and what? Really?

Stephen Bradford Long 14:12 What, in what tradition? Was your grandmother? Like, what? Sorry, I don't mean. I don't like dogs Catholic. Ooh, that is very traditional. I don't mean to like probe into your childhood.

Jack Matirko 14:25 But no, no, it's fine. I've written about it plenty, because

Stephen Bradford Long 14:29 well, so how does that intersect with with the writing that you've done kind of coming from this dual secular slash, religious background has? Has that informed your writing on Satanism? Has it influenced your writing on Satanism at all?

Jack Matirko 14:45 On Satanism? I'm not so sure I think in in the sense that, you know, I went to an Irish Catholic college and I really got into the philosophy classes and I thoroughly enjoyed, you know, when when we were in metaphysics, and we're reading Aquinas This and I'm like, Well, what about this one? I think I can poke a hole in this one. Like it's Aquinas and just like, I don't care, I think you can't poke holes in Aquinas. So that kind of, you know, just defiant ethos was, I think valuable thing for me to learn in those times that has come in handy. I guess one of

Stephen Bradford Long 15:20 the things that has struck me more and more the stereotype of Satanists, I think is that it is for disaffected Christians. And there is some truth to that, and that's fine. I am one of those disaffected Christians, but especially through ministry, as I've gotten to know more and more Satanists and and just kind of worked directly with more and more Satanists, and not just, you know, be in my little bubble. Here on a mountain in my cabin in Appalachia, there's real diversity in the backgrounds of various Satanists. And so I have colleagues who are Jewish and consider themselves to still be Jewish, and they are satanists. I know people from Quaker backgrounds. I know people who love their Christian background, people who hate it. People who come from Buddhist backgrounds, people, like it's just all over the map. And so did Were you ever devout as a, as a Catholic? Do like it? Was there ever a time when you really, I mean,

Jack Matirko 16:20 there was there was definitely a point where I genuinely believed it.

Stephen Bradford Long 16:24 So like, what age were you when when you were really a believer?

Jack Matirko 16:28 Younger than, let's say 12?

Stephen Bradford Long 16:32 Okay, so you were never so you never

Jack Matirko 16:34 range when exactly when exactly. It went from, you know, when exactly it went from Santa is not real to Gods? Not really. But it was somewhere, you know,

Stephen Bradford Long 16:45 it was somewhere in there. Right. So so it sounds like you've always been a very skeptical person. And it sounds like your your history with Satanism is more rooted in skepticism than it is necessarily a response.

Jack Matirko 17:00 Well, I think I think I have a healthy distrust of organized religions, and you want to, you know, really go in and kick the tires before you sign up? I think Right, right. Right. So

Stephen Bradford Long 17:10 you so you developed a really, I mean, being Catholic will definitely instill a healthy, healthy distrust of religion. Yeah. So one of the questions that I always get, and we are totally kind of drifting away from the topic of your book, but I think this is all interesting, but you can always kind of guide it, we can we can drag it back to you. We can always drag it back to the book. Oh, god dammit. What was I about to say? Where was it? Oh, yeah. So one of the questions that I always get asked is, so you had such a terrible experience in Christianity? And you had, well, I don't even necessarily Well, no, this is what people tell me. And I did genuinely because I was raised Christian, but I don't, I don't, it was, it was both good and bad. You know, I had horrible experiences growing up gay in the church. And then I had wonderful, beautiful experiences, because it was affirming gay Christians, who saved my life, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for those affirming Christians, or for the straight Christians who were 100% accepting of me. And so and that wasn't that was part of their faith, you know, that wasn't in spite of their faith, their acceptance of homosexuality was deeply connected to what they believed about God, you know, the two were were not and so they it was it was of the same cloth for them of us of a piece, their faith and their affirmation of me as a gay child, and as a gay young person. So for me, it's way it's for me, it's super complicated. It was both a horrific harrowing experience, because I went through ex gay therapy, and I, you know, all of that stuff. But then it was also a wonderful, beautiful experience, because it was also Christians who saved me from that, and, and I think a lot of people, especially Christians will say, Oh, you know, you had such a horrific experience with Christianity, why did you choose to enter another religion? What possessed you to to enter another religion? So with you, you are very skeptical of organized religion? Right, what well zest you to enter another religion.

Jack Matirko 19:36 So I think the thing about the the atheist community such as it was in in 2010 2012 2014, when I was a part of that community was that it was very much stem oriented, science, you know, Education and Science, Technology, Engineering. Science, Technology, Engineering and Math. There you go. And and it always really bugged me that they could have just made it steam and had an A there for art and they completely left it out. And it was, it's always been a bias kind of on that part of of atheism, that it's it's a little artless and not that always bothered me.

Stephen Bradford Long 20:22 You know it, it's always bothered me too. And it was one of the big hindrances for me, I think in finally becoming an atheist. It took me years, and I think part of it was that hurdle for me.

Jack Matirko 20:33 Right. But I think I think that Satanism allows a framework to have that have that artfulness without having to delve into theism.

Stephen Bradford Long 20:41 That's great and all, but that also involves people and religious structures and institutions. Yeah. So how do you had so so how do you? And I say, okay, and I say, this is somebody who is part of that structure and who loves it, I just find it interesting how different people are can be so skeptical, rightly so, of organized religion then find themselves in an organized religion.

Jack Matirko 21:08 Well, you know, I'm kind of skeptical of corporate power is sure to but sometimes you need a job.

Stephen Bradford Long 21:16 Sure, yeah. That makes sense.

Jack Matirko 21:18 I mean, there's only so many ways to put an organization together that like is stable and sustainable, right. So if you need an organization to get stuff done, then you can only make them some other otherwise, it's not an organization, right? Otherwise, it's just, yeah, apps lunch of people doing random stuff, with no

Stephen Bradford Long 21:38 order. And that tends to be even worse. My cat is here to say, Hello, hold on just one second, he has an inner ear problem. So he's very wonky in and he kind of can't balance. So. Oh, is he gonna stay? So I always have to pick them up and put them in my lap. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you on that. I don't think it's a contradiction. People always people always talk. Well,

Jack Matirko 22:03 I think there's, I think there's a difference between, you know, healthy skepticism and just being, you know, contrarian for being contrarian sake.

Stephen Bradford Long 22:12 Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, structure is a necessary part of life and a necessary part of community. And I feel like TST has just kind of been dragged kicking and screaming into more and more structure. Where it's like, it started out kind of

Jack Matirko 22:30 Yeah, unfortunately, as things get bigger, restructure. Exactly.

Stephen Bradford Long 22:34 Exactly. And that does mean, you know, imperfect people trying to work together. And that often causes, you know, challenges but are there so let's take it back to the book. Are there any stories in the book that are your favorites that stand out to you as as key pieces of writing that you are particularly proud of, or stories that you're particularly proud of? Because when I go through my blog history, there are a few standouts for me, so what are the few?

Jack Matirko 23:09 I think the okay the the one where I really tore into Roberts, various 501 C threes and

Stephen Bradford Long 23:20 tell tell people tell people who Reapered is Jason raper, the

Jack Matirko 23:24 state senator from Arkansas. He's still running for governor this year. And he Fallout I don't I mean, let's,

Stephen Bradford Long 23:30 let's look, keep talking and I'll Google it.

Jack Matirko 23:32 But but but, you know, he had his his election campaign funding. He had his church, and there was a third thing, but you know, all these businesses went to the same address. And then he had the his, the fiber one that was it be American history and heritage foundation. That's the one. He didn't have any 990s available it for a brief window of time they lost their 501 C three status. And I think some of that had to do with pointing out that they hadn't filed some of their paperwork on time

Stephen Bradford Long 24:13 he is running for Arkansas lieutenant governor, lieutenant governor in 2022. Jason is proven and trusted is a proven and trusted public servant for Arkansas voters having already won four general elections, first elected to the army

Jack Matirko 24:30 in a district of like 60,000 people, first of all, right. Clear, huge number of people. First elected

Stephen Bradford Long 24:37 to Arkansas senate district 35 in 2010. Reapered has been popularly reelected on three occasions winning in 2012 2014 and 2018. He is chairman of the Senate state agencies committee, member of the tax revenue and Joint Budget Committees, past joint Chair of the legislative joint audit auditing committee, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, So yes, he is still running, but he's the

Jack Matirko 25:02 one who's responsible for the 10 commandments statue out there. And so that was just a piece of, you know, investigative dive into the finances of him and his organization piece. And what you found matters? Well, what? What became apparent was that, you know, at that time when I was doing the article, he hadn't seen that that organization hadn't submitted any of the paperwork that they were supposed to submit. And so I just did a whole thing about it. And then not too long later that you check the IRS website, and it's just like, they're suspended. It was like, Cool. I don't think I had anything to do with that. But cool, you know,

Stephen Bradford Long 25:40 so So were they doing nefarious stuff in terms of like the division of church and state? Like, what were what I mean, it's

Jack Matirko 25:48 to say with that, it's impossible to say, right, but I mean, there was certainly stuff where, you know, the, was it Pure Flix wrote on a $25,000 check for the bathroom, or for the 10 commandments monument.

Stephen Bradford Long 26:03 And it'd be great if Pure Flix wrote a, a check for the Baphomet monument? That would be that would be awesome. You know, that would be if they really believe in religious liberty than they would do that.

Jack Matirko 26:14 Yeah, help us out. Help us out. So.

Stephen Bradford Long 26:18 Right, so so they were accepting donations from religious organizations to do this thing on state property.

Jack Matirko 26:27 Yeah. And how much of that like how much does that really mix? Right? Like, I mean, because he also runs a ministry, how much is he? Is he you know, soliciting those donations at Sunday on church? Who knows? You know, like, is, is that is he doing that as part of his job? Or kind of after off the clock in his office? Where does you know, where those lines meet? And what's okay and what's not, you know,

Stephen Bradford Long 26:50 what, what's his ministry? What does his ministry do?

Jack Matirko 26:54 It's, it's Well, according according to the to the to the ministries, 990, they do missionary work in the Philippines, I think, okay.

Stephen Bradford Long 27:07 Is that it? Well, they do.

Jack Matirko 27:11 I presume he has a shirt, he definitely owns the property, he owns some big, some big, like a state house that okay, he's next to his house that he uses for four minute, gyms and praying and whatever.

Stephen Bradford Long 27:24 Etc, etc. Okay, yeah. So so there's a

Jack Matirko 27:27 whole bunch of you know, and you kind of just want to point out the hypocrisy of always saying all this, because, you know, godly, blah, blah, blah, but you know, he's making bank and that money is going somewhere. And if even if it's all staying in the businesses he's enjoying, you know, the benefits of having it sort of, and how, to what extent is that, you know, yeah, and to what extent is making his expression of faith a little less genuine, you know, of course, and

Stephen Bradford Long 27:53 how much of that is pouring back into his theocratic causes in government, as well, like, there is this very dubious marriage between state and church? In a lot of the state legislature, right. Yeah. And yeah, so So for people who don't know, this, you know, the senator Jason Rayford. He was the one behind the 10 commandments monument. And then what happened from there? What, what, how to TST respond what happened from there? Because like you said, we there are a lot of new people to TST who don't know, the history. Yeah, well,

Jack Matirko 28:36 I mean, that case is still ongoing. They're they're trying to get the Baphomet statue placed on Arkansas Capitol on

Stephen Bradford Long 28:43 in response to the

Jack Matirko 28:46 10 commandments, one being that which, which makes sense to me. I'm, I'm all for pluralism. I like the idea of there being like these interfaith statue gardens. I think that sounds fun. It sounds Let's go.

Stephen Bradford Long 28:59 Yeah, throw in a Shiva. Throw, throw in a whatever. What did the Mormons have? An angel, the angel who brought the tablet? angel Moroni, angel Moroni

Jack Matirko 29:11 Yeah. I don't know if they make statues I don't know enough about Mormon neither do I like iconography to know what they write just this trade of lemon squares because cuz Mormon wives will always bring you lemon squares and do they

Stephen Bradford Long 29:28 I haven't experienced this

Jack Matirko 29:31 as well. Lot of very big Mormon population here in Mesa. They bring you live in squares. Well, they're always baking cakes and cookies and whatever I would be lemon squares is like a it's like a it's like a standard. I don't know why.

Stephen Bradford Long 29:46 I wish Mormons would bring me lemon squares.

Jack Matirko 29:49 Well, maybe maybe you should answer the door when they might have some

Stephen Bradford Long 29:53 bite. No, I live way up in the holler and I don't think there any any Mormons here. There There are other kinds of religious fundamentalists here but not Mormon, sadly and they do not bring me lemon squares. They scare me. Yeah, so the 10 commandments case is still ongoing. Trying to remember did they remove the 10 commandments monument in response to PST? Was that in Arkansas? No in Arkansas?

Jack Matirko 30:23 So there was a 10 commandments monument in Oklahoma that got removed from a state capitol. That's the that was that was I think it was a combination thing like the ACLU had already filed the certain. I think the SD kind of jumped in on it is like a, what an amicus brief kind of situation. Maybe, Arkansas, it's still there. And, yeah, and the bathroom? It's not.

Stephen Bradford Long 30:49 And the Baphomet is not kind of it right now. Yeah, so you did this investigative piece into Ripert and his various companies and organizations? What are some other pieces that you're particularly proud of? Like, if you were to hand the book to a stranger and be like, okay, here, here are the stories from this book that you need to read? Which ones would they be? I guess

Jack Matirko 31:16 it would depend on who they were and what we were talking, you

Stephen Bradford Long 31:20 know, TST member knew? I think he didn't complete

Jack Matirko 31:24 it. Yeah, if it was okay, what what do you think, you know, all this stuff is about then it's then it's the I did one Baphomet is more American than the 10 commandments piece. Which was just me kind of rash reasoning through, you know, the artistic symbolism of it and being like, you know, I mean, this will put it next to the Statue of Liberty, see how that weighs out? I think. I think it makes a lot more sense. And so that piece, I think, really kind of drove on this idea of just like you can you can be, you know, a fully American citizen and be a Satanist, too, you know?

Stephen Bradford Long 32:02 Yeah. Would you say that? It's, it's part of your patriotism, that, that Satanism and your and patriotism go together? It informs my sense of citizenship, and put it that way. Yeah, that makes complete sense. It informs my sense of citizenship and civic duty. Yeah, that makes complete sense. So so we had the Jason rapper, the JSON array, pert schemes. He's here, rifling through his book right now. And then what

Jack Matirko 32:29 I don't know, I don't know if there's any one thing, one article from the Arizona lawsuit, the Arizona invocation lawsuit coverage, but I think that was that was the one that since it was here, like in my backyard with my friends that I worry are, you know, had the Yeah, I had the most insight and access to so I think it's probably the ones that I feel like I did the best like actual like reporting reporting in terms of, okay, I've looked at all the angles, and here it is, in a concise way.

Stephen Bradford Long 33:01 Awesome. Yeah. And that was when Michelle and Stu tried to give a an invocation in Scottsdale, and all fucking hell broke loose and their images or their scenes in the movie, Hail Satan, from that whole situation, and just the mayhem that exploded in response to it. Yeah. And that court case closed a while ago, right. Yeah,

Jack Matirko 33:29 that closed a while ago with basically a determination that the city didn't violate any religious rights through a bunch of technicalities and loopholes if you ask me, but it was also a case that, you know, in the decision, the judge was like, Well, we still affirmed DSTS, religious, you know, designation as a religion, you know, so that was important there. Was that a win, even though even when? Well, it was kind of a it was kind of a it was kind of a consolation prize, I think, as opposed to a win. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't a win, but it was also Yeah, we definitely affirm that, you know, you're you're, you're the right to seek redress as a religion kind of thing, which was important.

Stephen Bradford Long 34:17 And interesting. Yeah, it's so it's funny, because what I got into TST, four, or not four, but what first drew me to TST were these high profile court cases and the protests and stuff like that. So what got me what got TST on my radar was when my partner was sitting on the couch one evening, on his laptop, and then he was like, Oh, my God, Steven, you have to see this. And he shows me the screen and it has a video on YouTube of a BDSM baby protests. And I just got it. It made sense to me and that It was my first exposure to Satanism was the BDSM baby protest, I think that was in Boston. And that was one of Jack's Blackmores protests back when she was still with the temple. And I instantly got it. And it made sense to me and, and then I started doing, you know, some deeper digging and eventually joined tsp and so on and so forth. And the rest is history. And now here we are, but what initially got me into TST were these very high profile public events, like the court cases or like the BDSM baby protest. Now, that's totally flipped for me. Where, like, you know, today, I have spent the entire day kind of, in my office buried under work for ministry. My entire life, and I when I think about TST, now, the, those high profile events like we just had the bland the bland ensberg, the bladder, the bladder Seberg, cross thing, the bland I can't even say, I think it is blatant, the Bladensburg cross thing. It doesn't even show up on my radar. Because well,

Jack Matirko 36:12 no. Well, that would that would, that would be a a congregation level thing. So it's not something that unless it was your congregation, there's no reason for you to really concern yourself with that unless you're driving up for it or visiting. Because I mean, one thing that that I definitely missed during the pandemic, and part of the reason that like the satanic estate happened was just, we were all kind of used to bouncing around from place to place and hanging out with each other and helping each other with events, and then pandemic and nothing. And that all that felt really weird for a while until we all kind of figured out how to interact with each other without going to see each other.

Stephen Bradford Long 36:52 Yeah, tell people about the estate because the estate is a really low. Well, just to finish my thought before we get to that. So many of these high profile cases, they they aren't the lifeblood of tsp for me anymore. The lifeblood of tsp for me is now the community, just kind of those those day to day interactions, which I'm having every day, and there's an eye and it's really lovely to just kind of be so immersed in the community and the day to day and the quotidian and the religious life of it. But the stuff that these high profile cases are super important. And that's what the public sees. And you've been able to chronicle those really, really well. So anyway, that is the end of my thought. Tell some tell some people about tell tell people some about the estate because the estate has emerged as this really cool hub of community within the town.

Jack Matirko 37:48 Yeah. And it was I was I was doing ongoing, unnecessary pursuit with TSG. TV. And because of, you know, stuff that other people had going on, I was interviewing everybody and I had interviewed ADA King and a few other other people from her goddess project. And we had gotten to talking about how it sucks that we could because it didn't we met at La in. And so we, you know, kind of kept in touch. And we were like, it really sucks that none of us can get together and hang out and do projects together. And she's like, well, I got these tech friends who are working on this thing. And so we started playing around with it, and just like we could use this and so so from there, you know, we told some other people and they came in and help and and so we built this this thing where now TSD has online maths on Tuesdays and Yep. Special Events and, and it's just neat and fun. And everybody likes it. And that's the best. Did you just call it maths?

Stephen Bradford Long 38:46 I guess. Is that services? Is that because you're a former Catholic? No, I'm kidding. Yes. No, yeah. So we have the the religious services every Tuesday night, and they are amazing. And then all kinds of these. And then events for the various holidays.

Jack Matirko 39:04 And it's it's a it's it's it's a wonderful thing, and it's I don't even really pay attention other than that to log in and watch anymore. It's cool how, as it became a bigger and bigger thing. Other people stepped in and said, Oh, hey, I can do that. And they took it over. And then now it's just this self sustaining. cool little thing.

Stephen Bradford Long 39:24 Yeah, it's a very cool ecosystem. But you enter it, they have different buildings, and you enter the building. And it's like this really cool screen with like, yeah,

Jack Matirko 39:38 it depends on your mind. It always reminds me of the map in Zelda, like whenever, yes, up to the map. Exactly. That's what it reminds me of, but it's great because you'd like okay, I'm gonna go over here. They're gonna go over here and there's stuff going on, at all the really fun little interface. Yeah. And I think that that makes it cool and special.

Stephen Bradford Long 39:57 Absolutely. It's an example of people in innovating during the pandemic to maintain community and kind of maintain this religious life. Do you have any future writing projects on the horizon? You I know you're writing for only sky? And what do you have going on there? So where can people find you on only sky? And do you have any like future projects?

Jack Matirko 40:20 Well, I'll be writing an only sky just look for Project Matejko. I don't know how the how they filed it the URL, but I think if you just click the author's tab, it comes down. It'll it'll show up under my name.

Stephen Bradford Long 40:31 So people can just search for your name Jackman Turco and only sky.

Jack Matirko 40:34 I have been thinking about, I haven't done any ongoing unnecessary suits in a while. I think I'd like to get back to that. Before I do any, like sit down writing writing. I just feel like I have some some interview itch. And I'm sure you understand this. I exerted hiatus. And yeah. So I'd like to do some more that I did a couple that are up on YouTube, under Jack Pacheco that are kind of a new format for Omp that I would very much like to take it into. I kind of used them as promotional for the only guy launch because we needed to get the name out there. But I would like to do like another full season for DSTV. If I can I think that'd be worthwhile.

Stephen Bradford Long 41:19 Absolutely. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah, I'm looking through your I'm looking through your catalogue.

Jack Matirko 41:27 The YouTube stuff?

Stephen Bradford Long 41:28 Not on YouTube. I'm most I'm still on the only sky website. Oh, yeah. You've heard a lot on here. You do a lot of writing your

Jack Matirko 41:38 I've been? It's, it's been I've actually I've actually taken a break. The last month or two I was working on the book. But I did get to just because I am a third generation Ukrainian. I have that history. When war broke out. It was just like, Okay, I have a lot to say about this. Oh, yeah, man.

Stephen Bradford Long 41:58 That, let's let's talk about that. Yeah. And

Jack Matirko 42:01 I and I was already since I was already doing Satanism. Before that, since I'm already used to thinking of things in terms of, you know, like how religions interact, instead of how governments interact, was something that jumped out at me was the the tensions between the Greek Orthodox Church in Ukraine and the Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow, and how how those power structures were interacting with each other to make this situation worse, especially since, you know, Putin has kind of all been nationalized to the Russian Orthodox Church. Right. So I thought it was super valuable to explore things from that angle.

Stephen Bradford Long 42:41 And what did you find? Well,

Jack Matirko 42:43 there there's, I mean, those power structures definitely exist. And there is it is using the Russian Orthodox Church as a kind of seed vehicle to spread Russian propaganda into other places like that. He they just opened it XR Cape in South Africa, it was a what is it? It's an XOR gate, which is think of it think of like, you know, like a satellite office, a diocese kind of like a diocese? Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool in South Africa, and that's new, and it's just kind of like, well, what are your What are you moving into there? Russia, you know, right. So

Stephen Bradford Long 43:20 they're, they're using their like, religious arm as like propaganda and other

Jack Matirko 43:26 and I guarantee you they like Russian Orthodox churches in Donbass? Sure, of course, they were using that as propaganda view, why wouldn't it?

Stephen Bradford Long 43:36 Yeah, to basically cause like, state unrest or, or, you know, stuff like,

Jack Matirko 43:43 whatever Russian identity movement was taking place out there that they use to foment separatism, right.

Stephen Bradford Long 43:50 And how did the Greek Orthodox Church?

Jack Matirko 43:54 Well, there's just a part of this is just really involved into how the Orthodox churches are structured, which is a bit of a learning curve, because it's not to everybody here is Catholic, and I think Roman Catholic church, but the Orthodox churches are a whole different animal. And there's like 12 different heads. So so the Greek Orthodox Church is actually under the Constantinople patriarchy in Turkey, and Russia has its own patriarchy and patriarchy. It's basically like they've each got their own Pope sort of Pope's there are any books, yes.

Stephen Bradford Long 44:28 But without, you know, speaking ex cathedra and without infallibility,

Jack Matirko 44:33 right. They wouldn't say they would get mad about any Pope though, because it's not really they think that they view the pope as an equal and the Pope's like, well, I'm the first

Stephen Bradford Long 44:43 and this goes, this, this gets into the 1000 year history of

Jack Matirko 44:51 there's a huge thing about Catholicism, that and the Orthodox. You can look it up and it's a lot.

Stephen Bradford Long 44:58 Yeah, go read it. Go read the Wikipedia A page. I haven't seen much coverage of the role of the Orthodox Church in the conflict in Ukraine. So I think there's there's

Jack Matirko 45:09 some and then there's the role of the various Orthodox churches and their associated mafia, as you basically have to go to the Italian press to hear anything about that. Mafia. Tell me more, Sam. Ah, yes. Tell me more. I mean, you know, like the Russian, of course, the Russian mob, like, yes, the Italian Mob is in with the Roman Catholic Church, and the Russian mob is in with the Russian Orthodox Church. And, of course,

Stephen Bradford Long 45:34 so basically, what I'm hearing you say, is that when Satanists have their own mob, we will have made it as, as one of the world religions.

Jack Matirko 45:44 We don't need a mob, we have the entertainment industry.

Stephen Bradford Long 45:47 That's true. Very true. We have Sabrina stealing our Baphomet statue. Cool. So everyone should go read your coverage of the war in Ukraine. It's really interesting. I did read some of your pieces. And it was super fascinating. You're also just a very good writer. I don't know if enough people tell you that. But you are an excellent writer. And I'm really glad that our community has excellent writers like you. So we do have a lot of good writers, we really, really do. And you are one of them. So where can people buy your book? What's it called? And where can they get it?

Jack Matirko 46:28 My book is needs must Life and Times and satanic American 2017 to 2021. You can get it on Amazon. It's on. It's available in hardcover and Kindle.

Stephen Bradford Long 46:39 Yeah, amazing. I will be getting it on Kindle. No, actually, I have a book I have it, you send it to me. So I'll be reading that instead.

Jack Matirko 46:47 You can read the OG I'm just gonna send you one of the hardcovers. I got a box of them showing up tomorrow. Oh, no.

Stephen Bradford Long 46:53 Oh, well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I will, it will go on.

Jack Matirko 46:56 And I think part of it is just me being a ridiculous, like document production nerd. And it's exceedingly proud of the fact that there's no widows and orphans on any of the pages. And there's no one. Okay, so in publishing, in publishing, if you're reading a book, and the first line of the paragraph is the last line on the page, and then the rest of the paragraph continues over here. That's called a widow. And then if it's the other way, where the last line of the paragraph starts at the top of next phase, that's called an orphan. And it's bad because it just breaks your concentration, right? It's after skip in the middle of that thought. So I made sure, because I did the formatic. Myself, there's none of those. Well, that's

Stephen Bradford Long 47:41 good to know. I appreciate that. I know attention

Jack Matirko 47:45 to detail that I say you really enjoy.

Stephen Bradford Long 47:47 You aren't following in the grand satanic tradition started by Anton LaVey of terribly formatted books. You're trying to break that tradition. And I'm terribly formatted book a terribly formatted like you read the Satanic Bible.

Jack Matirko 48:01 It's not like it's not like the, the chapters are exhaustively well organized, or loosely well organized, or it's going

Stephen Bradford Long 48:09 to be sections, but it's going to be better formatted than the Satanic Bible where there are literal, just pages that are blank, like a gazillion pages that are blank. And then the last part of the book, he he, you know, patted it by adding, you know, inochi. And just like just like a few lines per page, there's none of that

Jack Matirko 48:32 there are there are a couple of the as often happens with publishing just a couple of blank pages at the back that you can use for notes if you want, which I'm always a fan of in a book.

Stephen Bradford Long 48:41 Absolutely. That's fine. But that's I like his dozens, the dozens of empty pages, just a couple of pages in

Jack Matirko 48:49 the back. So you're not writing in the margins, you can just make little annotations in the back for yourself, I think, well, always. That's always a good thing for a book to have.

Stephen Bradford Long 48:57 Thank Satan. We have a well formatted book by a Satanist. Well done. All right, everyone go read needs must by Jacques Matejko. You can find it on Amazon or if you throw bricks through his window at 3am. Maybe you can convince him to send you a copy. Do you have any final thoughts?

Jack Matirko 49:18 Can I just end on a weird joke? I can just end on a word I was thinking about. I was thinking about how, you know in politics, we need to compromise and the right wants to harden public schools by having more people with guns there. And the left wants drag queens to read good stories. So why don't we just have the drag queens at the school and we armed them? And that fixes or both and then they can read the stories and that should fix everyone's problems, shouldn't it?

Stephen Bradford Long 49:45 All right, well, that is it for this show. The music? No, that's a brilliant idea. Armed drag queens I think is a fantastic idea. AK 40 sevens is the answer. Yeah. We should run you should run on that platform. Drag Queens with AK 47. Yeah, that'll go over well in Mesa, Arizona. It'll go over very well. All right. Well, that is it for this show. The music is by eleventy seven the thing. The theme song is called Wild. You can find it on Apple Music Spotify or wherever you listen to music. Go give my friend Matt Langston of eleventy seven some streams, it will definitely help him as well. The show is written, produced and edited by me Steven Bradford long it is supported by my patrons@patreon.com forward slash Steven Bradford long and it is a production of rock candy recordings. As always Hail Satan and thanks for listening